Using ToS against users normal?

[khaled0111]

If it was something like using multi acc, using VPN etc and it didn't caused any financial dmg then why seize the funds? It makes no sense. Some people use multi acc because they forget their old acc's password and create a new acc instead of trying to remember the pass of their old acc. Should the casino seize the money of this player? Of course no.

Sorry, but you are wrong. If a customer loses access to his account for whatever reason, then what he must do is to contact customer support and ask for them to help him recover his account or at least ask if it's OK to create a new account (alt) and abondon the first one. I took this example just to prove a point: if you break the ToS of any service then you are at fault regardless of your intentions.

[pawel7777]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Terms of Service do not supersede the law. Most civilised countries would require any operators to inform their users of any changes to the terms of service. If they fail to do that. any dispute resulting from such changes would be ruled in favour of the customer.
The problem is, many gambling websites operate illegally or half-legally, i.e. being registered in some exotic jurisdictions and not adhering to regulations of the countries in which they provide their services. In such cases, there's not much you can do, other than maybe contacting your bank and trying to reverse any fiat deposit you've made.

[Odusko]

Terms of Services can be changed at anytime but if a casino will not notify its users so users will leave their casinos so any good company never try to lose its users.
By the way in my view mostly people don't read the full ToS they just touch the accept button and go a head and start using the services. By the way the casinos, not only casinos every company should notify its users about changing ToS.

You're right mate and I think so many people don't even dare to read the terms and conditions of a thing before using it and I was think what if changing their terms  of service  at anytime without having to notify  its users is also  included in their terms of service?
I don't think any reputable firm will ever engage in this kind of act but the truth  be told that most times, all this reasons comes from severe loses and we just end up seeking for things to justify our decisions.

In the case where the terms and conditions of a casino covers a column that mentioned updates of the T&c at regular intervals, it will make the case become more hard for the players since the casino already stated that and whatever their wish to, they will change the T&c to suit and favour themselves.
But I have not seen any casino that does that yet and including it in the terms of service will discourage potential players from using such casino.

[Saint-loup]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Scamming users with shady and unfair clauses from ToS is just a scammy practice using to selectively scam customers. It's usually the users with the lowest LTV (Lifetime Value) or a negative one who are targeted with such practice. Customers with a high one, rarely need to care about it (except if they've made a big deposit) casinos are usually very nice and tolerant towards them.

[khaled0111]

it will make the case become more hard for the players since the casino already stated that and whatever their wish to, they will change the T&c to suit and favour themselves.
But I have not seen any casino that does that yet and including it in the terms of service will discourage potential players from using such casino.

As stated above, they can not do this. They can't simply change their terms of service overnight to win a dispute against one or some of their customers. A scam casino may do it but a reputable one will never do it. Besides, as I said above, even if they introduce some changes to their ToS, the changes aren't supposed to have a retro-active effect. So, it's not going to change anything.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Well, how exactly can such an act be normal? Of course it's not normal, and should be highly discouraged, and for whether any user on this forum has ever been affected by such act, I possibly can't tell, since I've never read any post concerning this before, but then I must say that such an act is a criminal offense, and any casino that does that and is caught should be punished severely for deter other from doing such as well, though I know it can only take a casino managed by scammers to pull such a stunt on its user(s).

Stake recently updated their terms and conditions, they made all their users accept the new terms and conditions before they are allowed into the site, that is what every reputable casino should always do anything they update their terms of service.

[Yatsan]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

If it is stated that devs has the power to do so in the first place, then that's just fine. Problem here is gamblers or users of a platform not even reading the ToS but I bet most of us do, not only in gambling platform but to almost evrything that has it. We tend to just click agree. But on my end, I have no big expectations if I instantly agreed a ToS such that if anything bad happen in contrast with what I have agreed, I will just move to other platform. But ofcourse it won't be the same to all things ofcourse especially it money is involved.

it will make the case become more hard for the players since the casino already stated that and whatever their wish to, they will change the T&c to suit and favour themselves.
But I have not seen any casino that does that yet and including it in the terms of service will discourage potential players from using such casino.

As stated above, they can not do this. They can't simply change their terms of service overnight to win a dispute against one or some of their customers. A scam casino may do it but a reputable one will never do it. Besides, as I said above, even if they introduce some changes to their ToS, the changes aren't supposed to have a retro-active effect. So, it's not going to change anything.

ToS indeed should be something which is absolute but as I have said above, there are policies open for amendment which are sometimes mentioned in ToS, and that is to make changes with perhaps fees, if it is needed. Most of the time, this could be seen with unregistered gambling sites and with licensed ones, policies are fixed. Also, not all changes are subject for fraudalent behavior, some are for the platform itself.

[Saint-loup]

As stated above, they can not do this. They can't simply change their terms of service overnight to win a dispute against one or some of their customers. A scam casino may do it but a reputable one will never do it. Besides, as I said above, even if they introduce some changes to their ToS, the changes aren't supposed to have a retro-active effect. So, it's not going to change anything.

Yes I agree with you, from a legal standpoint additions and changes in ToS don't affect past transactions and agreements in theory, but how will you be able to oppose a former version of their ToS if it doesn't appear anymore on their website? They rarely keep the older ones available unfortunately. And I'm not sure a personal screenshot or backup is strong enough against a dishonest casino since they could dismiss it by saying there is no evidence that it hasn't been tampered by yourself.

[Quidat]

it will make the case become more hard for the players since the casino already stated that and whatever their wish to, they will change the T&c to suit and favour themselves.
But I have not seen any casino that does that yet and including it in the terms of service will discourage potential players from using such casino.

As stated above, they can not do this. They can't simply change their terms of service overnight to win a dispute against one or some of their customers. A scam casino may do it but a reputable one will never do it. Besides, as I said above, even if they introduce some changes to their ToS, the changes aren't supposed to have a retro-active effect. So, it's not going to change anything.

They might be able to done for a few times but on the time that they would get busted on what they've been doing these shady stuffs then for sure it would really be over on their business.
Altering out their terms and condition is simply not an ethical act to be done via some legit sites or you wouldnt really be considering yourself to be legit in the first place because this isnt a doing
for a legit and reputable gambling site just because they are really just trying out to avoid some huge payment and this is why they do make out some issue.
On the time that a certain gambling site would really be doing this and get caught then it would really be over for their business.Its not normal and its a scam
kind like of behavior and this is something that should really be a avoided on the first place.

[ethereumhunter]

Casino sites must notify users if the casino changes its terms and conditions to all its members because it is a form of service from the casino to its members. This can also provide comfort to its members and if they do not agree with the new rules of the casino, the members can do something like move to another casino or ask the support service.

But I think some casinos don't announce the new terms and conditions so many of the members are surprised and don't think that casinos are doing that. Stake recently updated their rules and notified them when users logged in to their accounts.

You’d be surprised on the amount of platforms and services related to gambling that do not send communications to their players regarding the change in their ToS. It is, IMO, a very unprofessional way of handling changes in the way the platform runs and it can also mean cheating the players as well. Also, a lot of players don’t dare check their emails for changes anyway, so that’s on them if something happened that they don’t know about especially if the platform sent email communications regarding the change that happened.

If the casino notifies them that there is a notification in the form of a pop-up that will come out when they are playing or logging in to their account, players will see it. But I think even though it's like that, it's unlikely that many players will read the ToS carefully because they will just scroll down and take the new rules for granted.

If players do not dare to check email, it is a mistake because it is their email and they should check their email if there is any notification from the casino. That will help them to know if there are changes to the ToS of each casino.

[so98nn]

If they are changing the ToS just like that then definitely it’s not normal but it’s open fraud. I hate to break it but that’s the reality we live in today. It’s not just about the gambling sites but most of financial related industries which are having this sort of problem. This is best way to avoid business losses and get rid of unwanted balance payments to be made. I’m sure this is what you talking about.

However, if you have archival reports of previous ToS and you signed up during that period then definitely you can file a suit against them. These are all the proofs you will need to go and get back what’s taken from you.

[adzino]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

If its a major change, then yes, they will notify you about the changes. You will most likely receive an email or when the next time you enter their site, you are made to agree those terms again. I doubt any well known casino would want to "defraud" their customers by using their terms against them. They would be losing more customers than they would have scammed.
If something similar happened to you or "one of your friends" in a well known casino, then most likely the user didn't read the updates when they were notified.

[worle1bm]

I am also of the opinion that if casino is changing any rules in their T&C they should have a pop up menu coming up whenever a user login that conditions have been updated so have a look on them otherwise some might be gambling keeping in mind the old one's and casino can use it in their favour to safeguard them from any scam accusations without the knowledge of players.They should inform the players beforehand as it's also the sign of legit casino who gives transparency to players.

[Outhue]

The truth needs to be told, like, who still reads T&S this days? How many gamblers on this forum reads T&S from the beginning to the end? The numbers will be very limited that's why such casinos will win whenever they bring up any creepy claims.

This is also why it could be hard to trust a new online casino, I will always prefer to use old and not too old online casinos instead of new casinos because you don't know what they will do to users or how they will care for their customers and I am not ready to be the first batch of testers either.

I believe you won't have a problem if the online casino you use is a top one on the lists of reliable casinos, this is the only way to avoid bad online casinos that use the changing of rules in their T&S for time to time, it's creepy and uncool.

[avp2306]

I am also of the opinion that if casino is changing any rules in their T&C they should have a pop up menu coming up whenever a user login that conditions have been updated so have a look on them otherwise some might be gambling keeping in mind the old one's and casino can use it in their favour to safeguard them from any scam accusations without the knowledge of players.They should inform the players beforehand as it's also the sign of legit casino who gives transparency to players.

Agree with this or at least they should announce the updated TOS so that their user will be aware if there's changes and it will not create confusion in long run. They can also save up some time to explaining to people posting some allegation and they cannot use the claims that they don't know about those rules since they announce it for them to read.  Although this is not sign that they are legit but at least people can read about important things they need to follow and know what to avoid.

[rhomelmabini]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites?

I think there's something about a choice whether you'll receive or not the changes on these terms and conditions afaik but not entirely sure. I always put my notifs on and never have ever got any problem on this stuffs. I think this isn't normal if they are just updating it without anything that supports it like posting it on their social media or those who are on their email subscriptions list.

In reality even if these casinos tend to notify every members on their platform most won't give a time to open them up when needed, they'll just know it when there's something happen on their own accounts.

[mindrust]

If it was something like using multi acc, using VPN etc and it didn't caused any financial dmg then why seize the funds? It makes no sense. Some people use multi acc because they forget their old acc's password and create a new acc instead of trying to remember the pass of their old acc. Should the casino seize the money of this player? Of course no.

Sorry, but you are wrong. If a customer loses access to his account for whatever reason, then what he must do is to contact customer support and ask for them to help him recover his account or at least ask if it's OK to create a new account (alt) and abondon the first one. I took this example just to prove a point: if you break the ToS of any service then you are at fault regardless of your intentions.

You are technically right but we humans sometimes forget the things we don't really care about. I might lose the existence of my old casino account from 3 years ago for example. The casino will have the right to seize my funds just because I made another account by mistake? Is this what you are saying? The ToS says "don't use multiple accounts" but that don't give them the right to seize the funds of the player unless this act alone caused them any financial harm.

[summonerrk]

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Of course, this is wrong, any changes on the part of the service must be agreed with the user.
Unfortunately, I myself have encountered a similar situation from the gambling service. At the same time, such a problem always occurs during the withdrawal of earned funds.

To avoid such a problem in the future, I advise you to save a pdf file of the terms of the user agreement (you) and the gambling site. This way it will always be possible to compare the old and the new agreement file and provide it to the support service in case of misunderstanding.

[dezoel]

No, it's not normal. Though most of the platforms or websites mentioned in their terms and conditions that they have all the rights to make any changes, add or remove or modify any rule from their terms and conditions without having to inform anyone. Usually, when there is a change in the privacy policy or terms and conditions, they send an email to notify their users along with the new and updated ToS or Privacy policies.

It's obviously unethical if they change something from it that directly or indirectly affects their users or gamblers, in that case, they are supposed to let their gamblers know right after the change is made so that they can change their practices and keep the change in their minds all the time.

[KiaKia]

If any one casino already have it in their terms and conditions that they can modify their ToS any time, that's a red flag and not safe to use, I will run away from such an online gambling platform because they can tramp on their users easily.

A online gambling platform that cares about their business and that of their customers must send out a notification via email address to all their users about the change of ToS and request them to go through the updates and changes before they start gambling starting from so and so date.

Because some users or customers might not like the new adjustments and they should be free to withdraw their funds and stop using the platform if they don't like the new rules of the platform.

If they can't do this, they can't be trusted.