Using ToS against users normal?

[maydna]

I find it hard to believe that you have actually read a full ToS of any gambling site, it doesn't make sense especially when you don't gamble too much. Why would you spend a chunk of your free time to read them if you only wanted to play a little bit? It does not add up.

Sure, sending notifications of any changes is a good practice, but did Stake.com actually obliged themselves (in the ToS) to send notifications of any changes? If not, you'd still have to read them everytime you log in, if you want to practice what you preach.

I'm not asking you to believe I've read it

But that's what I do. After all, I do it maybe once every two weeks or once a month, just to ensure nothing changes. Well, I don't gamble much, so I have a lot of free time to read or browse the site to find great deals. Stake.com did it a while ago and activated a small window that would pop up, notifying them that something had changed in their change. You can check @Coin_trader replied.

If you're a real gambler, you'll take a gamble of not reading them 
But seriously, as mentioned before, unless you're looking for a specific, nuanced information, reading ToS doesn't help much and does not guarantee you won't get in trouble, as those would almost always be worded in favour of the house, not the player. So what really protects you is either the law, or a hope that casino is genuine and will not engage in any shady practice out of a fear of losing reputation.

How could a real gambler not take the time to read his TOS? Or is this what happens with the many complaints of people who have hundreds or thousands of dollars in balances in their accounts but are suddenly blocked due to violations? What really protects you when playing gambling is just playing with the money you can afford.

Yes, not all casinos will give notifications when there are changes to the TOS, but as I recall, the popular casinos that I currently use, such as Stake.com, will notify you when you open the site after the TOS changes have been made.
Like last time when Stake changed the TOS and I opened the site and there was a notification that there was a change in the TOS that had been determined.
It is at that time that we are obliged to read the changes that have occurred so that we avoid the problem of violating the TOS.
Maybe not all casinos will have the same notices but I hope we all at least read a little bit about the more important TOS we have to comply with.

Stake.com has done that a while back. And they ask us to read it because it's important that we don't break it. So reading the TOS is recommended even though many gamblers don't like to read the TOS because it's too long.

[pawel7777]

But that's what I do. After all, I do it maybe once every two weeks or once a month, just to ensure nothing changes. Well, I don't gamble much, so I have a lot of free time to read or browse the site to find great deals. Stake.com did it a while ago and activated a small window that would pop up, notifying them that something had changed in their change. You can check @Coin_trader replied.

That's very nice of them, but that's not what I asked. I asked if they obliged themselves to notify you of any changes. If not, you can't rely on notifications alone, and, to be consistent with your approach, you'd have to read the ToS (or at least check for changes) each time you log in.

How could a real gambler not take the time to read his TOS? Or is this what happens with the many complaints of people who have hundreds or thousands of dollars in balances in their accounts but are suddenly blocked due to violations?

Define 'real gambler'. I feel we have a different idea of what this means.
Can you post a single example of anyone being locked out of hundreds of thousands, which could've been prevented if they had read the ToS? Have you ever seen a ToS saying "we can lock you out of your funds permanently"? Usually the wording is pretty vague and can be interpreted in many ways.

What really protects you when playing gambling is just playing with the money you can afford.

How is losing money I can afford to lose protecting me from losing money? It just makes losing less painful.

Stake.com has done that a while back. And they ask us to read it because it's important that we don't break it. So reading the TOS is recommended even though many gamblers don't like to read the TOS because it's too long.

People don't read them not only because their long, but also because every single service will give themselves a right to change them at any time, so it's kind of pointless. And if the casino operates in your jurisdiction, in a way you could take legal action against them if they misbehave, then the law would usually provide you a decent protection.

[PX-Z]

Sure, sending notifications of any changes is a good practice, but did Stake.com actually obliged themselves (in the ToS) to send notifications of any changes? If not, you'd still have to read them everytime you log in, if you want to practice what you preach.

This is the cheatsheet of every casino that lawmakers should check and I knew every service is required by law to do that^{(notifying when there's a change in TOS at least 2 weeks before)}. But stake mentioned on its TOS that they can change their TOS with or without notifying its users so you need to read it regularly like its just 3-5 lines sentences amp.

[Wiwo]

Sure, sending notifications of any changes is a good practice, but did Stake.com actually obliged themselves (in the ToS) to send notifications of any changes? If not, you'd still have to read them everytime you log in, if you want to practice what you preach.

This is the cheatsheet of every casino that lawmakers should check and I knew every service is required by law to do that^{(notifying when there's a change in TOS at least 2 weeks before)}. But stake mentioned on its TOS that they can change their TOS with or without notifying its users so you need to read it regularly like its just 3-5 lines sentences amp.

The question now is that,  how often should one read the TOS because if casinos already mentioned that they could change the Term and condition at any time without informing their client and the client need to stay updated that means customers on their site will have to read the terms and conditions almost every day and that is impossible to do when the document is always large to read through and come out from it as soon as possible, thos have become the masseur reasons why most casino users never border to read through that documents just by a glance.
But most times some scam casinos also use this issue of TOS to steal from players and then change the terms and conditions just to serve their selfish interests in the long run.

[Blitzboy]

Sure, sending notifications of any changes is a good practice, but did Stake.com actually obliged themselves (in the ToS) to send notifications of any changes? If not, you'd still have to read them everytime you log in, if you want to practice what you preach.

This is the cheatsheet of every casino that lawmakers should check and I knew every service is required by law to do that^{(notifying when there's a change in TOS at least 2 weeks before)}. But stake mentioned on its TOS that they can change their TOS with or without notifying its users so you need to read it regularly like its just 3-5 lines sentences amp.

The question now is that,  how often should one read the TOS because if casinos already mentioned that they could change the Term and condition at any time without informing their client and the client need to stay updated that means customers on their site will have to read the terms and conditions almost every day and that is impossible to do when the document is always large to read through and come out from it as soon as possible, thos have become the masseur reasons why most casino users never border to read through that documents just by a glance.
But most times some scam casinos also use this issue of TOS to steal from players and then change the terms and conditions just to serve their selfish interests in the long run.

I agree entirely. Its ludicrous to expect users to pore over the TOS regularly. This expectation of constant vigilance is more in favor of the casinos rather than their clientele. And truth be told, its a crafty legal loophole exploited by them. However, one might argue that a responsible player should familiarize themselves with the TOS, as cumbersome as it may be. After all, it's their money on the line. Still, expecting daily updates? Thats straight-up outrageous

And don't even get me started on those scammy casinos that modify their TOS to suit their ends. It's high time some strict regulations are put into place to hold them accountable.

[PX-Z]

And don't even get me started on those scammy casinos that modify their TOS to suit their ends. It's high time some strict regulations are put into place to hold them accountable.

Best thing is to always have an archive of the TOS page ehen you register and when you read it again so on and so forth. But it's useless if the casino is really want to scam its user(s). Better to use a trusted one to have lesser issues in the future.

[lionheart78]

And don't even get me started on those scammy casinos that modify their TOS to suit their ends. It's high time some strict regulations are put into place to hold them accountable.

Best thing is to always have an archive of the TOS page ehen you register and when you read it again so on and so forth. But it's useless if the casino is really want to scam its user(s). Better to use a trusted one to have lesser issues in the future.

True, scam casinos can even make their TOS so player-sided in order to trap these unsuspecting victims to register on their site and play.  Since they are scam platforms, they won't care about their reputation anyway and will keep on scamming any player that had been caught by their trap. 

On the other hand, reputable casinos always create a TOS that is both beneficial for the player and the platform and use it as guide on how the user can use their platform and not to entice players to register on their site.

[SirLancelot]

Sure, sending notifications of any changes is a good practice, but did Stake.com actually obliged themselves (in the ToS) to send notifications of any changes? If not, you'd still have to read them everytime you log in, if you want to practice what you preach.

This is the cheatsheet of every casino that lawmakers should check and I knew every service is required by law to do that^{(notifying when there's a change in TOS at least 2 weeks before)}. But stake mentioned on its TOS that they can change their TOS with or without notifying its users so you need to read it regularly like its just 3-5 lines sentences amp.

A lot of casinos and platforms have that written in their Terms and Conditions that they have the right to modify, change and add new rules in their terms and conditions without the consent of their users and when users agree with their terms and conditions, they indirectly agree with this condition as well which gives them the right to do anything they want and the gamblers can't even complain because they have agreed and accepted the terms and conditions.

If a casino takes ethical values into consideration, they would probably inform their users about the changes that they've made in the terms and conditions, but if they don't care about all that, they would obviously not make that happen and wouldn't inform their users at all.

[vv181]

~

A lot of casinos and platforms have that written in their Terms and Conditions that they have the right to modify, change and add new rules in their terms and conditions without the consent of their users and when users agree with their terms and conditions, they indirectly agree with this condition as well which gives them the right to do anything they want and the gamblers can't even complain because they have agreed and accepted the terms and conditions.

If a casino takes ethical values into consideration, they would probably inform their users about the changes that they've made in the terms and conditions, but if they don't care about all that, they would obviously not make that happen and wouldn't inform their users at all.

In some cases, there is a regulation that enforces companies to inform users each any changes they have made. ToS is an agreement, it should be legally void if there significant modification without noticing the user. Actually, it came back to users' consumer protection laws in their own respective countries. If the regulations are enforced, the user should be aware and informed of such a condition.

There should be also limitations on what can companies do, surely they did not have the right to do "anything" they want freely without any legal basis. 

[Hypnosis00]

~

A lot of casinos and platforms have that written in their Terms and Conditions that they have the right to modify, change and add new rules in their terms and conditions without the consent of their users and when users agree with their terms and conditions, they indirectly agree with this condition as well which gives them the right to do anything they want and the gamblers can't even complain because they have agreed and accepted the terms and conditions.

If a casino takes ethical values into consideration, they would probably inform their users about the changes that they've made in the terms and conditions, but if they don't care about all that, they would obviously not make that happen and wouldn't inform their users at all.

In some cases, there is a regulation that enforces companies to inform users each any changes they have made. ToS is an agreement, it should be legally void if there significant modification without noticing the user. Actually, it came back to users' consumer protection laws in their own respective countries. If the regulations are enforced, the user should be aware and informed of such a condition.

There should be also limitations on what can companies do, surely they did not have the right to do "anything" they want freely without any legal basis. 

You do have a point because when you agree to the Terms of Service (TOS) upon signing up, it provides all the necessary information you need to know. If there are any significant changes that would greatly impact the customers, it's crucial for them to inform us. However, I believe that in legitimate cases, there aren't many significant changes, or if there are any, they are likely scams by sites attempting to deceive gamblers.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

~

A lot of casinos and platforms have that written in their Terms and Conditions that they have the right to modify, change and add new rules in their terms and conditions without the consent of their users and when users agree with their terms and conditions, they indirectly agree with this condition as well which gives them the right to do anything they want and the gamblers can't even complain because they have agreed and accepted the terms and conditions.

If a casino takes ethical values into consideration, they would probably inform their users about the changes that they've made in the terms and conditions, but if they don't care about all that, they would obviously not make that happen and wouldn't inform their users at all.

In some cases, there is a regulation that enforces companies to inform users each any changes they have made. ToS is an agreement, it should be legally void if there significant modification without noticing the user. Actually, it came back to users' consumer protection laws in their own respective countries. If the regulations are enforced, the user should be aware and informed of such a condition.

There should be also limitations on what can companies do, surely they did not have the right to do "anything" they want freely without any legal basis. 

You have a very good and valid point, and I agree with you, I believe serious businesses know how important their terms of service is to the business regardless that most customers even in this 21st century still regard ToS as not so important document to go through..

Like some weeks back when stake updated their terms of service, they made sure no user entered their account without first reading the terms of service, but still, many people did not read it, they just scrolled down the page, clicked the "I have read and agree to the terms and conditions" (what ever way it's written) button and then move on with their normal gambling activities, several millions of people out there only read the terms of service of a platform when ever they have encountered or have issues with the platform..

[sunsilk]

You do have a point because when you agree to the Terms of Service (TOS) upon signing up, it provides all the necessary information you need to know. If there are any significant changes that would greatly impact the customers, it's crucial for them to inform us. However, I believe that in legitimate cases, there aren't many significant changes, or if there are any, they are likely scams by sites attempting to deceive gamblers.

If there's an unnotified changes as per rules of the casinos and didn't inform the customers and mostly the ones that are affected by that change. They can alibi that they're free to change the rules without informing their users.

But as required by law, hopefully where they're operating requires and states that they should do a fair change of any rule that they have for the users to be at least informed before making a change.

It's typical, normal and also ethical.

[danadc]

~

A lot of casinos and platforms have that written in their Terms and Conditions that they have the right to modify, change and add new rules in their terms and conditions without the consent of their users and when users agree with their terms and conditions, they indirectly agree with this condition as well which gives them the right to do anything they want and the gamblers can't even complain because they have agreed and accepted the terms and conditions.

If a casino takes ethical values into consideration, they would probably inform their users about the changes that they've made in the terms and conditions, but if they don't care about all that, they would obviously not make that happen and wouldn't inform their users at all.

In some cases, there is a regulation that enforces companies to inform users each any changes they have made. ToS is an agreement, it should be legally void if there significant modification without noticing the user. Actually, it came back to users' consumer protection laws in their own respective countries. If the regulations are enforced, the user should be aware and informed of such a condition.

There should be also limitations on what can companies do, surely they did not have the right to do "anything" they want freely without any legal basis. 

You have a very good and valid point, and I agree with you, I believe serious businesses know how important their terms of service is to the business regardless that most customers even in this 21st century still regard ToS as not so important document to go through..

Like some weeks back when stake updated their terms of service, they made sure no user entered their account without first reading the terms of service, but still, many people did not read it, they just scrolled down the page, clicked the "I have read and agree to the terms and conditions" (what ever way it's written) button and then move on with their normal gambling activities, several millions of people out there only read the terms of service of a platform when ever they have encountered or have issues with the platform..

What I think is that when a casino that is recognized and old updates its terms and conditions it is because it needs to quickly integrate into a new way of seeing games of chance , I am not sure if that includes Bonuses and Bonus terms that they are not so difficult , but a casino should make its update based on what is Coming for the future and may be better, not that it will predispose the position of the players, because with dissatisfied players the casino will not perform well and will have many losses and that is not only what is Sought , a casino must stand out very well According to its competition.

[vv181]

but a casino should make its update based on what is Coming for the future

Well, that is ridiculous and absurd. Terms of service changes reflect with that the business needs. Certainly, the features or any decision are already planned, so any terms change should be done the after the project updates completion.

Besides, that is not simply how it works, it is ludicrous to update the TOS for future updates. It gives an unnecessary burden to the team, instead of developing the project/features first.

but still, many people did not read it, they just scrolled down the page, clicked the "I have read and agree to the terms and conditions" (what ever way it's written) button and then move on with their normal gambling activities, several millions of people out there only read the terms of service of a platform when ever they have encountered or have issues with the platform..

Indeed, agreeing to and reading terms and conditions is the biggest lie on the internet. I didn't blame the user or the platform, but such kind of text sometimes also is not made to be easily read concisely.

[jostorres]

You do have a point because when you agree to the Terms of Service (TOS) upon signing up, it provides all the necessary information you need to know. If there are any significant changes that would greatly impact the customers, it's crucial for them to inform us. However, I believe that in legitimate cases, there aren't many significant changes, or if there are any, they are likely scams by sites attempting to deceive gamblers.

If there's an unnotified changes as per rules of the casinos and didn't inform the customers and mostly the ones that are affected by that change. They can alibi that they're free to change the rules without informing their users.

But as required by law, hopefully where they're operating requires and states that they should do a fair change of any rule that they have for the users to be at least informed before making a change.

It's typical, normal and also ethical.

I don't really think that casinos are required by law to inform their customers about any changes they make in their terms and conditions nor does their licensing firms make sure about these things, and they mention it in their terms and conditions most of the times that they are not obliged to inform the users if they modify a rule or add another one, and that it is users' own responsibility to make sure that they frequently check and read the rules.

But to be honest, that is now how it should be and it is not morally correct, and those casinos or platforms that really care about their customers and are running legit business for many years would definitely inform their users about any changes they make in rules and regulations.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

You do have a point because when you agree to the Terms of Service (TOS) upon signing up, it provides all the necessary information you need to know. If there are any significant changes that would greatly impact the customers, it's crucial for them to inform us. However, I believe that in legitimate cases, there aren't many significant changes, or if there are any, they are likely scams by sites attempting to deceive gamblers.

If there's an unnotified changes as per rules of the casinos and didn't inform the customers and mostly the ones that are affected by that change. They can alibi that they're free to change the rules without informing their users.

But as required by law, hopefully where they're operating requires and states that they should do a fair change of any rule that they have for the users to be at least informed before making a change.

It's typical, normal and also ethical.

I don't really think that casinos are required by law to inform their customers about any changes they make in their terms and conditions nor does their licensing firms make sure about these things, and they mention it in their terms and conditions most of the times that they are not obliged to inform the users if they modify a rule or add another one, and that it is users' own responsibility to make sure that they frequently check and read the rules.

But to be honest, that is now how it should be and it is not morally correct, and those casinos or platforms that really care about their customers and are running legit business for many years would definitely inform their users about any changes they make in rules and regulations.

You are very correct, casino updating their terms of service without informing their users of the changes is already very dubious morally, if mandatory information to users by the casinos of updated terms of service is not included as a law, then I personally think the licensing body should consider marking this a mandatory rule for the casinos..

Some weeks back when stake updated their terms of service, every user was locked out, and until the user reads and accept the updated terms of service, that is only when the user be allowed into his or her account again, this is the same style I think every other Casino out here should emulate.

[Bushdark]

You do have a point because when you agree to the Terms of Service (TOS) upon signing up, it provides all the necessary information you need to know. If there are any significant changes that would greatly impact the customers, it's crucial for them to inform us. However, I believe that in legitimate cases, there aren't many significant changes, or if there are any, they are likely scams by sites attempting to deceive gamblers.

If there's an unnotified changes as per rules of the casinos and didn't inform the customers and mostly the ones that are affected by that change. They can alibi that they're free to change the rules without informing their users.

But as required by law, hopefully where they're operating requires and states that they should do a fair change of any rule that they have for the users to be at least informed before making a change.

It's typical, normal and also ethical.

We need to always ensure that we test many of the casinos we are using so that we are not going to fall victim if any terms and conditions problems. There are some casinos that are very harsh on there terms and conditions and if any gambler eventually break any if there rules, The customer might end up losing all the funds in the account. Casinos are making big profits from gamblers and they can easily cheat there customer based on there terms. It is important for us to understand these terms because it will not be funny when we are not able to access our account again due to what we are accused of.

[Hamphser]

You do have a point because when you agree to the Terms of Service (TOS) upon signing up, it provides all the necessary information you need to know. If there are any significant changes that would greatly impact the customers, it's crucial for them to inform us. However, I believe that in legitimate cases, there aren't many significant changes, or if there are any, they are likely scams by sites attempting to deceive gamblers.

If there's an unnotified changes as per rules of the casinos and didn't inform the customers and mostly the ones that are affected by that change. They can alibi that they're free to change the rules without informing their users.

But as required by law, hopefully where they're operating requires and states that they should do a fair change of any rule that they have for the users to be at least informed before making a change.

It's typical, normal and also ethical.

We need to always ensure that we test many of the casinos we are using so that we are not going to fall victim if any terms and conditions problems. There are some casinos that are very harsh on there terms and conditions and if any gambler eventually break any if there rules, The customer might end up losing all the funds in the account. Casinos are making big profits from gamblers and they can easily cheat there customer based on there terms. It is important for us to understand these terms because it will not be funny when we are not able to access our account again due to what we are accused of.

So far, on all the years i have been aware and able to see about certain situations here on this forum and on the gambling field, i havent able to encounter those kind of complaints about TOS violation because of sudden change or update on what are those things been written on their or just simply i have do miss up those things and there are ones who are really that experiencing it.Any alterations from the terms and conditions is something that cant really be known publicly unless if it would be announced or something like that about such update.

We cant really make out some complaints though because most of the time on which gamblers doesnt really read up this long pile of text on which if that certain casino would really be giving out emphasis
that a certain user had violated something againsts their Tos then it would really be no point on making out some argumentation.

[danadc]

You do have a point because when you agree to the Terms of Service (TOS) upon signing up, it provides all the necessary information you need to know. If there are any significant changes that would greatly impact the customers, it's crucial for them to inform us. However, I believe that in legitimate cases, there aren't many significant changes, or if there are any, they are likely scams by sites attempting to deceive gamblers.

If there's an unnotified changes as per rules of the casinos and didn't inform the customers and mostly the ones that are affected by that change. They can alibi that they're free to change the rules without informing their users.

But as required by law, hopefully where they're operating requires and states that they should do a fair change of any rule that they have for the users to be at least informed before making a change.

It's typical, normal and also ethical.

We need to always ensure that we test many of the casinos we are using so that we are not going to fall victim if any terms and conditions problems. There are some casinos that are very harsh on there terms and conditions and if any gambler eventually break any if there rules, The customer might end up losing all the funds in the account. Casinos are making big profits from gamblers and they can easily cheat there customer based on there terms. It is important for us to understand these terms because it will not be funny when we are not able to access our account again due to what we are accused of.

It is extremely important that in every casino their terms and conditions are there visible so that any player or non-player of the casino has them available, long before each registration, or they should be so detailed that they should do something else, a video or something similar to those gamers who are very lazy and don't like to read very much, when it comes to games there are always people who are like that, they don't like to read and it's important, so it's good that they could make explanatory videos of their terms and conditions, it's something that It just occurred to me, but that would help a lot, it would be something new and it doesn't look bad at all.

[slapper]

~

A lot of casinos and platforms have that written in their Terms and Conditions that they have the right to modify, change and add new rules in their terms and conditions without the consent of their users and when users agree with their terms and conditions, they indirectly agree with this condition as well which gives them the right to do anything they want and the gamblers can't even complain because they have agreed and accepted the terms and conditions.

If a casino takes ethical values into consideration, they would probably inform their users about the changes that they've made in the terms and conditions, but if they don't care about all that, they would obviously not make that happen and wouldn't inform their users at all.

In some cases, there is a regulation that enforces companies to inform users each any changes they have made. ToS is an agreement, it should be legally void if there significant modification without noticing the user. Actually, it came back to users' consumer protection laws in their own respective countries. If the regulations are enforced, the user should be aware and informed of such a condition.

There should be also limitations on what can companies do, surely they did not have the right to do "anything" they want freely without any legal basis. 

You have a very good and valid point, and I agree with you, I believe serious businesses know how important their terms of service is to the business regardless that most customers even in this 21st century still regard ToS as not so important document to go through..

Like some weeks back when stake updated their terms of service, they made sure no user entered their account without first reading the terms of service, but still, many people did not read it, they just scrolled down the page, clicked the "I have read and agree to the terms and conditions" (what ever way it's written) button and then move on with their normal gambling activities, several millions of people out there only read the terms of service of a platform when ever they have encountered or have issues with the platform..

Indubitably, you've raised a critically important point. Yet, "Terms of Service" - or as I often refer to them, "The Literature of the Law" - aren't simply relegated to the doldrums of 'not-so-important' by a dismissive 21st century audience. In truth, they're often presented in such a manner - dense, lengthy, filled with legal jargon - that even the most conscientious among us are discouraged from thorough perusal.

Let's take the instance you mentioned, when 'Stake' updated their ToS. An interstitial approach was adopted, meaning no user could access their account without acknowledging the updated ToS. However, did the action truly compel users to read the document? Or did it simply create an additional hurdle to the pursuit of their gambling activities?

This 'checkbox compliance' is, in essence, a Band-Aid solution. Rather than merely ensuring a user 'agrees' to the ToS, businesses should strive to make them easily understandable and engaging. Utilise summaries, bullet points, visuals - bring them to life! Once users feel that ToS are more accessible and less of a chore, perhaps then we'll see an uptick in their widespread consideration.