delete

[Viscis]

My only issue with this coin is the blatent disregard for fixing KNOWN security flaws pre airdrop. If it wasnt BTX then it would of been anyone else. This is not a good launch.

I would not be surprised to see 3 or 4 different attackers pouncing on block 5400 in order to TW it and gain a massive cache of coins. You guys will have little to no choice but to confirm their coins when the chain is released.

If the developers had any care for this coin at all, they would immediately suspend the KGW deployemnt.

They still have days to do so and getting the word out would be very easy at this heightened state of awareness. There are many skilled developers confirming this exploit will succeed, including Nite69, the "walk on" developer called brilliant by the Auroracoin Team.

It makes absolutely zero sense to continue on knowing this.


~BCX~

Exactly.

[poornamelessme]

Perhaps some should have dismissed the claims to clarify the situation yes, but the burden of proof is not on the accused! If I'm accused of something on any context, I expect it to be backed up with facts, not making the uphill effort to struggle against B.S. accusations.

So, back up your accusation with facts, and quote posts of WHO exactly agrees with extortion.

If you note, I didn't say that members of that group will definitely extort anyone, just that the actions they should have taken to dismiss the claims that someone there made. Personally, I think anyone would have to be really dumb to post criminal intent on a public board, and then actually commit the crime. I also mentioned twice in this thread that BCX has stated he won't accept money from any extortion.

But you do bring up one interesting point -- a person should be considered innocent until proven guilty, correct? The burden of proof is not on the accused... your own words.

Yet BCX is not heeding those words in regard to the AUR dev. He is assuming the accused (AUR dev) is guilty. Before any scam is committed. Before any wrongdoing is proven. It just looks fishy, so must be a scam.

Two wrongs don't make a right, which again, is why I didn't say BCX is taking any money. It's just hypocritical to say in one instance the burden of proof is not on the accused, and in the other to say a person is guilty, because they can't prove their innocence.

[illodin]

Being fully 100% transparent without any doubt and managing the drop would've been too much of a challenge. If they pre-announced the authentication method(s) in detail that would've created easier way for scammers to get ready and abuse the system.

security through obscurity is no security.

Someone in another thread said a while back, if you want perfection, let us know when you find it (or something like that). At some point you just have to take the step and do it.

[kalus]

Being fully 100% transparent without any doubt and managing the drop would've been too much of a challenge. If they pre-announced the authentication method(s) in detail that would've created easier way for scammers to get ready and abuse the system.

security through obscurity is no security.

Someone in another thread said a while back, if you want perfection, let us know when you find it (or something like that). At some point you just have to take the step and do it.

you're confusing perfection with transparency.

not asking for perfection.  bitcoin QT is at 0.9.0, and it will continue to iterate.  

security through obscurity, like you are justifying the obscurement of essential details of the coin, is no security at all.  

[Wipeout2097]

Perhaps some should have dismissed the claims to clarify the situation yes, but the burden of proof is not on the accused! If I'm accused of something on any context, I expect it to be backed up with facts, not making the uphill effort to struggle against B.S. accusations.

So, back up your accusation with facts, and quote posts of WHO exactly agrees with extortion.

If you note, I didn't say that members of that group will definitely extort anyone, just that the actions they should have taken to dismiss the claims that someone there made. Personally, I think anyone would have to be really dumb to post criminal intent on a public board, and then actually commit the crime. I also mentioned twice in this thread that BCX has stated he won't accept money from any extortion.

But you do bring up one interesting point -- a person should be considered innocent until proven guilty, correct? The burden of proof is not on the accused... your own words.

Yet BCX is not heeding those words in regard to the AUR dev. He is assuming the accused (AUR dev) is guilty. Before any scam is committed. Before any wrongdoing is proven. It just looks fishy, so must be a scam.

Two wrongs don't make a right, which again, is why I didn't say BCX is taking any money. It's just hypocritical to say in one instance the burden of proof is not on the accused, and in the other to say a person is guilty, because they can't prove their innocence.

Damn I lost my previous reply! Just to say 2 things:

- People should be considered innocent until proven guilty, but cryptos are a trustless system, there shouldn't even be someone that can or cannot be accused in the first place. As I said before, this distribution should be algorithmic, not someone holding 50% premine.
- IPO's, scams, large premines, coin cloning for dumping at exchanges, instamines with loopsided block subsidy abound. It is in this context that we are talking about. Yes, the Aurora devs may be honest, but that is the exception. The fact that we still have to trust someone and cannot do anything against scammers is why is the scene is dying.

Edit: regarding extortion claims, you were unable to back up with facts. So if you brought up the hypocrisy argument, put you also a rest to the accusation

[ZeroBarrier]

If I'm not mistaken, you BCX, have the resources and knowledge to set up your own test platforms. Why  would you use a coin people care about and not your own?

Auroracoin and it's idea is one of those projects against political will, until the breaking point, where enough people gets educated and politicians need to obey as they should.
It is a wise thing to remain anonymous for the time being.

Sometimes you have to believe in someone. Give it a try. But risk accordingly.

I don't see why you should be the judge of what currency (lives or) dies along with some people dreams/scam.

Is there some?

I think it would be better to have BCX test and potentially destroy a scam/shit coin since he does so with no malicious intent of profiting for said tests.

To me it just sounds like all these whining supporters would rather risk someone else coming along and pwning them all in the face for profit or God forbid risk the fact that the dev himself is pwning them in the face for financial gain.

I said this week's ago but it deserves to be said again. The Air Drop is a perfect laundering mechanism to scam with. You Air Drop a few coins to your targeted audience and Air Drop the rest into your own random wallet addresses. The fact that the Air Drop will take a year or longer just sweetens this much more because it gives the scammer enough time to launder and dump at a controlled rate and simply blame the targeted audience for the dump.

This isn't working entirely too well for the dev if he is in fact laundering the pre-mined coins and dumping though (which seems the most likely of all scenarios). The network has recently been taking a crap on itself and taking upward 9-10 hours per block (this coupled with the fact there there still isn't any real liquidity in AUR makes it near impossible to dump large amounts of AUR without completely killing the coin), there isn't any real infrastructure that provides services in exchange for AUR even in Iceland (it's targeted audience. And no, a guy trading a used car for AUR is not infrastructure) and this just lowers the value of AUR and people are finally starting to realize it now, hence the drop to $2.73.

Once block 5400 comes. I truly hope BCX does test the exploit out on AUR. If the exploit is successful then AUR deserves what it gets regardless of any good perceived intentions by any of it's supporters (the road to hell is paved in good intentions). If it somehow survives in some sort of crippled state then it should be left in the hands of the Icelandic people to pick up the pieces (they want to use it as their currency, then so be it; they can have it, they can mine and support it to secure the blockchain themselves). I still don't understand why anyone here would want to give the Icelandic people money from their pockets instead of letting the Icelandic people themselves put money into AUR and give it value.

[poornamelessme]

Yes, the Aurora devs may be honest, but that is the exception. The fact that we still have to trust someone and cannot do anything against scammers is why is the scene is dying.

Well, my point posting in this thread was simply the fact that the AUR dev may not be committing a scam, and it's wrong to take action just based on suspicion.

Personally, I think the scene is dying not because of junkcoins, IPO scams, or any of that. It's bad exchanges. But that is a different discussion.

I see you added this after my reply, so will respond:

Edit: regarding extortion claims, you were unable to back up with facts. So if you brought up the hypocrisy argument, put you also a rest to the accusation

I stated there was an extortion claim in that shitcoin thread. I said those who promoted that movement should have dispelled it. That is all I claimed. I didn't say BCX was taking money, here, or anywhere else.

[kalus]

Well, my point posting in this thread was simply the fact that the AUR dev may not be committing a scam, and it's wrong to take action just based on suspicion.

there's also absolutely no reason to stop discussion about a possible scam.  in fact, we should be encouraging a debate and discussion, and a free exchange of information.  the only side that wanted to stop discussion was the pro-auroracoin side, not the skeptics. 

there is also nothing wrong to warn people the currency's fundamentals are flawed.

for investments sunlight is the best disinfectant.  

[Wipeout2097]

Yes, the Aurora devs may be honest, but that is the exception. The fact that we still have to trust someone and cannot do anything against scammers is why is the scene is dying.

Well, my point posting in this thread was simply the fact that the AUR dev may not be committing a scam, and it's wrong to take action just based on suspicion.

Personally, I think the scene is dying not because of junkcoins, IPO scams, or any of that. It's bad exchanges. But that is a different discussion.

I see you added this after my reply, so will respond:

Edit: regarding extortion claims, you were unable to back up with facts. So if you brought up the hypocrisy argument, put you also a rest to the accusation

I stated there was an extortion claim in that shitcoin thread. I said those who promoted that movement should have dispelled it. That is all I claimed. I didn't say BCX was taking money, here, or anywhere else.

I see...

Regarding bad exchanges, yes, I missed that one. Perhaps also miners don't think much about mining a scam coin as long as is the most profitable, as I did before when I was clueless or when I didn't care about looking. Also some kinds of coin pumping in this forum. Nobody is innocent here. But things must change or we're all screwed.

[poornamelessme]

Well, my point posting in this thread was simply the fact that the AUR dev may not be committing a scam, and it's wrong to take action just based on suspicion.

there's also absolutely no reason to stop discussion about a possible scam.  

there is also nothing wrong to warn people the currency's fundamentals are flawed.

for investments sunlight is the best disinfectant.  

On that I agree entirely. I suggested education and discussion as alternatives to destroying coins in that shitcoin killing thread.

Discussion is fine and should be encouraged.

But  ddossing pools/services and trying to wreck coins, based on a suspicion, isn't right to me. I'm not even quite sure of the legality of ddossing services/pools -- guess it depends on what nation it originates from.

[kalus]

But  ddossing pools/services and trying to wreck coins, based on a suspicion, isn't right to me. I'm not even quite sure of the legality of ddossing services/pools -- guess it depends on what nation it originates from.

i agree.  but who ddossed a service/pool?

the blockchain is designed to be mined.  and KGW implementation is designed to foil certain types of mining.  there is a flaw in KGW, that was being investigated in vivo.   By creating a blockchain-based currency, the developers are inviting everyone to mine it, however they want with whatever equipment they have.  

the currency's design should account for possible exploits, and potential investors should be given as much information.  if the development team is going forward with a flawed KGW implementation, then everyone should know this.

you claims "ddossing pools/services... trying to wreck coins":  my opinion is the auroracoin developers wrecked their own coin by using a blockchain design they could not secure, and using an anti-switching-pool technology they didn't completely understand.  they were worrying about a couple of coin-switching pools when they should have been getting their shit together.  remember at one point this house of cards was protecting close to $300,000,000 in "market cap".    

[woetohice]

I couldn't careless which one they choose or why but I will not be part of any extortion plot.


~BCX~

That's ridiculous semantics.  You've already said you don't care how they choose the coin you destroy.  Well, they choose through extortion.  Whoever doesn't pay.

They rely on you to carry out the plan.  You unleash on the chosen coin, and you've already said that whichever they choose is fine with you and you don't need a reason.

It's absurd to claim that you are not part of the extortion plot just because you are not the one receiving the money.  

[YarkoL]

These large "premines" should be algorithmically distributed. In other words, the Auroracoin protocol and wallet should have allowed an option to enter one's Icelandic ID and perhaps some 2nd key as challenge provided by national registry, and the network would generate a transaction akeen to (PoS) mining and allocate the 31.8 AUR. Not sure here...

That's a brilliant idea, and before long we might see a coin that does something like that.

[illodin]

Being fully 100% transparent without any doubt and managing the drop would've been too much of a challenge. If they pre-announced the authentication method(s) in detail that would've created easier way for scammers to get ready and abuse the system.

security through obscurity is no security.

Someone in another thread said a while back, if you want perfection, let us know when you find it (or something like that). At some point you just have to take the step and do it.

you're confusing perfection with transparency.

not asking for perfection.  bitcoin QT is at 0.9.0, and it will continue to iterate.  

security through obscurity, like you are justifying the obscurement of essential details of the coin, is no security at all.  

You are saying 99% is the same as 0%. Again, come back when you find perfection.

[Math]

My only issue with this coin is the blatent disregard for fixing KNOWN security flaws pre airdrop. If it wasnt BTX then it would of been anyone else. This is not a good launch.

I would not be surprised to see 3 or 4 different attackers pouncing on block 5400 in order to TW it and gain a massive cache of coins. You guys will have little to no choice but to confirm their coins when the chain is released.

If the developers had any care for this coin at all, they would immediately suspend the KGW deployemnt.

They still have days to do so and getting the word out would be very easy at this heightened state of awareness. There are many skilled developers confirming this exploit will succeed, including Nite69, the "walk on" developer called brilliant by the Auroracoin Team.

It makes absolutely zero sense to continue on knowing this.


~BCX~

I'm inclined to specifically agree with the bold portion of your post.  The developers have attempted to thwart an attack by reducing the median time-stamp from 11 blocks to 3 blocks and by reducing the time-stamp to current time difference from 2 hours to 20 minutes.  I still think this chain is vulnerable to an attack.  These preventative measures do make it more difficult to attack the chain by increasing the amount of time an attacker must spend building his own chain, but one must remember, an attacker will be working outside of time when he builds his chain.  In essence, he has all the time he needs.  If you combine a coordinated effort to make pools inaccessible with the assumption that most miners do not have multiple pools or solo-mining set as a back-up, this chain is still highly vulnerable.  Prove me wrong.

[kalus]

Being fully 100% transparent without any doubt and managing the drop would've been too much of a challenge. If they pre-announced the authentication method(s) in detail that would've created easier way for scammers to get ready and abuse the system.

security through obscurity is no security.

Someone in another thread said a while back, if you want perfection, let us know when you find it (or something like that). At some point you just have to take the step and do it.

you're confusing perfection with transparency.

not asking for perfection.  bitcoin QT is at 0.9.0, and it will continue to iterate.  

security through obscurity, like you are justifying the obscurement of essential details of the coin, is no security at all.  

You are saying 99% is the same as 0%. Again, come back when you find perfection.

you're confusing perfection with transparency.

[DemetriusAstroBlack]

Seems like a lot of this would be cleared up instantly if the Dev or Devs come forward.......Thank you BCX for causing a little chaos to get attention to the real issue with this coin which is transparency and decentralization.  I say decentralization because one person being in control of the premine is madness.

That being said does anyone know why the block chain is moving so slow?  I thought BCX was still waiting for it to get to the fork......If he is doing it, then isn't he doing the devs a favor by giving them more time to implement a fix?  Are the devs causing the slowdown to buy more time?  Too much speculation is going around with what is going on.

[micryon]

I would not be surprised to see 3 or 4 different attackers pouncing on block 5400 in order to TW it and gain a massive cache of coins. You guys will have little to no choice but to confirm their coins when the chain is released.

If the developers had any care for this coin at all, they would immediately suspend the KGW deployemnt.

Tend to agree with BCX here.. it's better to expose security flaws early and publically, and get them patched.. than to let them linger.

The question should be, not what has been done, but where to go from here.  How do we fix it..


And .. can someone post the fix for KGW TW.. is Hiro's change good enough .. or we need a better fix.  I need to get my own coins patched up..

[illodin]

Being fully 100% transparent without any doubt and managing the drop would've been too much of a challenge. If they pre-announced the authentication method(s) in detail that would've created easier way for scammers to get ready and abuse the system.

security through obscurity is no security.

Someone in another thread said a while back, if you want perfection, let us know when you find it (or something like that). At some point you just have to take the step and do it.

you're confusing perfection with transparency.

not asking for perfection.  bitcoin QT is at 0.9.0, and it will continue to iterate.  

security through obscurity, like you are justifying the obscurement of essential details of the coin, is no security at all.  

You are saying 99% is the same as 0%. Again, come back when you find perfection.

you're confusing perfection with transparency.

If you want something done, at some point you just have to go and do it.

[toknormal]

Amazing how BitcoinEXpress gets away with rebranding vandalism as a constructive exercise.

Yet feels at liberty to make baseless accessions of "scamming" at people who have pioneered one of the most significant innovations yet in the history of crypto currencies when their only "crime" was their wish to remain anonymous.

If I think my Parents don't secure their home properly at night and they don't take my advice, I don't go ransacking their house to prove my point.

Whatever BitcoinEXpress's talents, he's toast and deservedly so. Pondlife without a clue of what Icelandic society is about.

I lived in Iceland for 8 years and when I first saw the Auroracoin website I knew exactly why this initiative had been taken and that it was genuine. Who cares if the developers had the "opportunity" or not to scam it - it doesn't matter because there was much more at stake and that was clear to anyone with half a brain cell who knew anything about the history of Icelandic financial life, or who had experienced the workings of the class system in a very small country.

The central bank devalues the currency by up to 20% at a time whenever they feel like it. They've done that for 40 years so it's a no brainer that if a "Crypto" is around it's going to give them second thoughts because by devaluing the Krona, they're implicitly favourably revaluing the Aurora. The existence of an explicitly Icelandic crypto is of huge benefit to the society.

Make no mistake about it, I support the concept of *any* cryptocoin helping the population of Iceland

Do you fuck. You're a charlatan with too big an ego to help anyone.

An intelligent vandal who's too lazy to look for constructive solutions to the problems you see. It wasn't your role to be judge and jury of this project and if what you said above is true you would have given them the benefit of the doubt. You're basically a busybody who finds creativity in antagonism and destruction.

You are useful, but no more so than any other criminal.