The new U.S.-China agreement is a "forced friendship. What awaits the world ?

[dothebeats]

It's hard seeing Taiwan being left out in this forced friendship between China and the US. I don't see the US scaring China one bit with all its show of military might and conducting exercise near Taiwan. Also, the US is still supporting Ukraine in its fight with Russia, so I don't think it's good for them economically to sustain two wars in different fronts. Perhaps, that's also the reason why the US is trying to build up its foundry for processors - they are letting Taiwan go and with it, their interest in TSMC.

Whichever the case for this sudden forging of friendship, it's good for the world (for now) except for Taiwan which is left against the Chinese government's mercy.

[1715081250]

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[1715081250]

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[kro55]

3. Joke question: Don't you think that the capital of the country of the "bargaining chip" begins with the letter "M" ?

You seem to be referring to Russia, I know you don't like Russia and consider them a terrorist but if you think that China is taking advantage of Russia's friendship to bargain with the US, it's a bit funny and a bit childish. It is only a matter of time before China takes back Taiwan, it is more than capable of doing so at any time, even if Taiwan receives greater US support.

I don't believe what the US says, I believe they will still support Taiwan as they are doing, what they say in the press is just to appease China, they don't want to increase tensions with China. They are struggling with Ukraine against Russia, and continuing to raise tensions with China will not benefit them. They are still the country with the top military in the world, but at the same time, against two great powers like Russia and China, they will also fail quickly.

[DrBeer]

It seems that the picture is becoming clearer. To begin with, let me remind you that not a single Chinese official has the right to make an open statement that has not been agreed with Beijing. Beijing itself, at the highest level, rarely speaks openly and concretely - that's what its politicians, officials, and the media say.

And then interesting statements began, the "first sign": "The military image and authority of Russia in the eyes of China collapsed."
I am sure that in the next 2-3 weeks we will hear many more such statements.

I have long said that the China-Taiwan (USA) conflict is likely to end in a soft and comfortable solution. Mutually beneficial. The US will make concessions and China will be satisfied with the "return of Taiwan", Taiwan will receive a fairly wide autonomy and even retain elements of independence and the right to choose "with whom to be friends and with whom to conduct business relations." But at that time I did not understand what concessions China would make. As events show - China "merges" Russia. He does not need this burden, Russia. More precisely, the land is needed, and apparently China is counting on them in the short term. But China no longer intends to mess around in "friendship with Russia"!

Now the cards are stacked.
The two poles of the bipolar world met and agreed, a compromise has been found!

[electronicash]

what are you talking about?
russia and china has been playing long term. now that they winning, you think they will suddenly separate ways? thats a dumb idea.

they have conquered artic region together. and the goal is to have a multipolar world thats why they have BRICS.  thats why theres more than 50 countries joining dedollarization.

[jrrsparkles]

Today the world heard:  "The U.S. does not support Taiwan's independence and has no intention of engaging in conflict with China."

U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken said this during a meeting with Chinese leader Xi Jinping in Beijing.

Blinken also stressed that the United States does not seek a cold war and has no plans to change the Chinese system. In turn, Xi Jinping said that China respects U.S. interests and will not challenge Washington.

The Chinese leader added that the United States should also respect China's position and not harm its legitimate rights and interests. Xi Jinping expressed hope that the U.S. will take a rational and pragmatic position on China.

What does this mean? Even yesterday there was a very serious confrontation around Taiwan, today it is "peace, friendship, respect".
There are two questions:
1. Which country has become a bargaining chip?
2. What does the world expect in terms of economics ?
3. Joke question: Don't you think that the capital of the country of the "bargaining chip" begins with the letter "M" ?

US can't afford to spend money anymore like they did in the past for example they spend billions every year for Afghanistan and finally US gave up to Talibans and imagine what will be their stand against China. US is not the world police and every government has their own way so let them deal with on their selves now US is trying to focus on the economic growth in their own land.

[livingfree]

~snip~

If the US is now saying that it does not support Taiwan independence, then this is indeed a very interesting turn in US-China relations. The issue of Taiwan brought these countries closer to a serious war. In the United States, the outcome of a military clash between these states was simulated on a computer, and it turned out that the United States was winning the war, but by a very small margin. We can say that both states as a result of the war between themselves will be drained of blood.

So far, this is a reasonable move on the part of the United States to push back the threat of World War III. And this is not about weakness, as some here believe. The policy between the two big states should be wise, but the situation towards Taiwan may change in the future.

This could just be a maneuver for the US since their representative has stepped into the lands of China. Of course, what would you tell while you're inside their borders and territory? And that's why I think that's just in confidence of being there and not to do anything and say crazy that will trigger them.

But if this is all serious statement and the US really meant what they've said, they're avoiding to make a bigger war and that's better but bad and awful for Taiwan.

Answering a "joking question" I agree that the capital of a country beginning with the letter "M", that is, Moscow can already be a bargaining chip here. It is much more profitable for China to stay closer to the US and the EU than to Russia. Part of the territory of Russia, which there has long been considered Chinese, because it previously belonged to China, China will still take away from the weakening Russia as a result of its war with Ukraine. At the same time, if China does not openly support Russia in this war, then Russia will lose it relatively quickly.

Interesting thought, I have never thought of this possibly. But on war, it's true that everything is possible when it's about disputes and territories.

~snip~

One thing I know is that in stuff like this, things are never as they seem. These things are way deeper than we can understand because we don't have all the facts on our table. The US and China might have struck a deal and we wouldn't know. They may just be doing it to appear cool on paper and we wouldn't know. I don't want to sound like I love conspiracy theories but there's always an underground reason for things like this in international politics.

One thing I hate so much is people trying to paint China as a saint in the story. It's so annoying it gets funny at a point. Both the US and China are exactly the same people. They may have different ways of achieving a goal but they both have the same goal; that is making their country and position superior.
They never do anything without their own interest first.

That is one thing for sure that we don't know what's actually happening with their talks, in paper and even in the ground. I agree on the latter that both of them are just the same.

Huge super powers that can't be content with all of their territories and still want to be known as the strongest. And I think that this will never end even a century has come.

[Synchronice]

US not supporting Taiwan's independence has always been their position on paper but don't listen to what they say and look at what they do. It's laughable that they claim they don't want conflict but they're pushing for it. US have been preparing in case China makes a move on Taiwan by increasing their military presence in Asia. I read somewhere that NATO is also making a move by building a base in Japan. All these suggests that they are trying to make the same strategy they did against Russia.

When your currency is not doing well and the world dream is to abandon it, when you have a proxy war with Russia and when you have NATO troops across the Europe and Asia, you can't really afford so many things at once. The whole world is not in war anymore, Europe isn't destroying itself and Japan doesn't have a holy war, so, it's not that easy to remain a global leader and superpower today.

[jubalix]

The old term was balkanization.
The new term is wokenalnization.

As it turns out the US (and west) in undergoing wokenalnization , which has been more destructive than, balkanization

in the former you identify as disticnit culture and racial groups
in the latter you idetiy as whatever you want and no racial groups exist sort of.

in the former the border is around your states land
in the latter via mass immgration and a mosaic of suburbs the state will only (sort of) defend or allow you to defend you property, and you have the right on that property to eject others (to varing degrees).

wokenalnization has hollowed out the US as a functional polity at several levels, economic via tax transfer,  identity, race and potlical alignment to name a few
as such the US is a spent force.

The un lacks among other things the capability to maintain its weapons systems.


Inerestingly how so many uh how shall we say .... caucasian young males that have followers have pruchased wharehouses to carry on in a large enough space to innovate and do stuff, as the have retreated to that space (unconiciously or conciously).

[Marvell1]

what are you talking about?
russia and china has been playing long term. now that they winning, you think they will suddenly separate ways? thats a dumb idea.

they have conquered artic region together. and the goal is to have a multipolar world thats why they have BRICS.  thats why theres more than 50 countries joining dedollarization.

From what I remember, the OP is Ukrainian, and it's understandable that he resented and hated Russia. But I really don't agree with OP's opinion because as you say, China and Russia have a very good relationship, and this relationship existed before the war between Russia and Ukraine happened. Indeed, Russia and China are the top two leaders of the BRICS and they are taking steps to rebalance the world's balance of power.
Therefore, there is no reason for China to shake hands and be friendly with the US at this stage. What is happening may be that the US has begun to worry and panic about China's development.

[Wind_FURY]

I think China took Blinken's current visit as a sign of US weakness, which it actually is. The United States realized that it was not possible to frighten China with large-scale exercises and that the American military-industrial complex could not pull a proxy war on two fronts. You have to bend and flirt, but without much success - Blinken was received much worse in China than Bill Gates.

That's true, but what the United States might actually be doing is fight China by using macro-economics. Because the longer the Federal Reserve holds interest rates high, it will be problematic for China's economy since domestic demand of the country can't support the economy. They desperately need the U.S. and its allies' to increase demand for Chinese exports which only QE could do. But it won't happen.

 

It's probably China that's forced to cooperate.

[bittraffic]

US not supporting Taiwan's independence has always been their position on paper but don't listen to what they say and look at what they do. It's laughable that they claim they don't want conflict but they're pushing for it. US have been preparing in case China makes a move on Taiwan by increasing their military presence in Asia. I read somewhere that NATO is also making a move by building a base in Japan. All these suggests that they are trying to make the same strategy they did against Russia.

When your currency is not doing well and the world dream is to abandon it, when you have a proxy war with Russia and when you have NATO troops across the Europe and Asia, you can't really afford so many things at once. The whole world is not in war anymore, Europe isn't destroying itself and Japan doesn't have a holy war, so, it's not that easy to remain a global leader and superpower today.

So far the West can still proclaim a lot of things thru the media. The headline was that there is progress when China and US have meetings with the head office. But you can see the photos of Xi Jinping didn't even look at the camera. It may sound good on the headlines but later on when Blinken still says they'd fight for Taiwan? That's when it becomes fuzzy. There never is a good result to this visit. The provocation is still up to start a war.

[Yogee]

US not supporting Taiwan's independence has always been their position on paper but don't listen to what they say and look at what they do. It's laughable that they claim they don't want conflict but they're pushing for it. US have been preparing in case China makes a move on Taiwan by increasing their military presence in Asia. I read somewhere that NATO is also making a move by building a base in Japan. All these suggests that they are trying to make the same strategy they did against Russia.

When your currency is not doing well and the world dream is to abandon it, when you have a proxy war with Russia and when you have NATO troops across the Europe and Asia, you can't really afford so many things at once. The whole world is not in war anymore, Europe isn't destroying itself and Japan doesn't have a holy war, so, it's not that easy to remain a global leader and superpower today.

What exactly are you getting at? That US officials are doing this "friendship" ties with China so they could buy time until US gains more foothold in Asia? Yes I get that the proxy war and increasing military presence around China has been costing them but they most likely see this as "investment" to protect their interest.

Europe is probably destroying itself by following US that's why you have leaders like Macron being vocal against NATO opening office in Japan and avoid being dragged into conflict with China and US over the issue on Taiwan.

[LogitechMouse]

After what's happening to the 2 countries within the last few months, they will make us surprise that they will make a friendship out of nowhere? Do they think that we are that dumb to believe that it is genuine?

Of course it's fake. Airstrikes, suspected spy balloon coming from China, and many more in the future. I believe that this kind of trend will continue because these 2 countries can't, and will not cooperate with each other. I wonder why both countries want Taiwan. Maybe because of the fact that the country is the largest manufacturer of microchips, and semiconductors. That would mean profit for either of them that's why one is trying to get it, while the other tries to defend it. Either or, I don't see this agreement as a "true" agreement that would last long.

Well, I would be happy if I will be wrong, and this agreement might last long. After all, both can benefit with each other in different ways.

[Wend]

...snip...
If America imposes its will and interferes with Taiwan's problems continuously, it is very likely that America will not gain from this dispute.
Choosing to clarify relations in China is the safest move for America right now.

This is true, the US is shrinking and has to make concessions to China on the Taiwan issue because the more it causes tension, the more the US will suffer, not China. This is a very wise move and helps them to be safer for the time being. Although they are a great power and have many allies in the world, that does not mean that they will have enough power and strength to cover the whole sky of this world. But this move is also very risky for them because, with this move showing they are weakening and starting to fear, I hope Russia and China will not pass up this opportunity.

[Sayeds56]

I think China took Blinken's current visit as a sign of US weakness, which it actually is. The United States realized that it was not possible to frighten China with large-scale exercises and that the American military-industrial complex could not pull a proxy war on two fronts. You have to bend and flirt, but without much success - Blinken was received much worse in China than Bill Gates.

I think we should welcome this developments and  view it as right step in the right direction. Proxy wars and regional conflicts often lead to devastating impact on human life. Such conflicts/wars result in collateral damage and instable economy, making life of general public difficult. We as  advocates of peace lover should raise our voices to exert pressure on super powers to spend more on poverty alleviation projects rather than investing on development of weapon.

[Gyfts]

U.S. Speaker of the House (at the time) took a trip to Taiwan flanked by fighter jets on her flight into the country for the sake of a PR statement, despite the contempt from China, and within such a short period Anthony Blinken takes a 180 degree approach. The American tax payer should be asking why Nancy Pelosi took the trip in the first place.

I have long said that the China-Taiwan (USA) conflict is likely to end in a soft and comfortable solution. Mutually beneficial. The US will make concessions and China will be satisfied with the "return of Taiwan", Taiwan will receive a fairly wide autonomy and even retain elements of independence and the right to choose "with whom to be friends and with whom to conduct business relations." But at that time I did not understand what concessions China would make. As events show - China "merges" Russia. He does not need this burden, Russia. More precisely, the land is needed, and apparently China is counting on them in the short term. But China no longer intends to mess around in "friendship with Russia"!

Now the cards are stacked.
The two poles of the bipolar world met and agreed, a compromise has been found!

I see this playing out similar to the Hong Kong situation. Of course the U.S. knows this but when the repercussions of their actions begin to reach fruition, the current administration will be long gone and it will be another politician's headache. Taiwan will be given some level of autonomy before all governmental functions and law enforcement are overtaken by Chinese authorities entirely.

[Unbunplease]

What is happening now is a kind of conditional respite. The U.S. presidential election is scheduled for November 2024, so now the U.S. administration is trying to score extra points for itself. I don't think we should attach much importance to such agreements, because they reek of hypocrisy.

[bittraffic]

U.S. Speaker of the House (at the time) took a trip to Taiwan flanked by fighter jets on her flight into the country for the sake of a PR statement, despite the contempt from China, and within such a short period Anthony Blinken takes a 180 degree approach. The American tax payer should be asking why Nancy Pelosi took the trip in the first place.

I have long said that the China-Taiwan (USA) conflict is likely to end in a soft and comfortable solution. Mutually beneficial. The US will make concessions and China will be satisfied with the "return of Taiwan", Taiwan will receive a fairly wide autonomy and even retain elements of independence and the right to choose "with whom to be friends and with whom to conduct business relations." But at that time I did not understand what concessions China would make. As events show - China "merges" Russia. He does not need this burden, Russia. More precisely, the land is needed, and apparently China is counting on them in the short term. But China no longer intends to mess around in "friendship with Russia"!

Now the cards are stacked.
The two poles of the bipolar world met and agreed, a compromise has been found!

I see this playing out similar to the Hong Kong situation. Of course the U.S. knows this but when the repercussions of their actions begin to reach fruition, the current administration will be long gone and it will be another politician's headache. Taiwan will be given some level of autonomy before all governmental functions and law enforcement are overtaken by Chinese authorities entirely.

China bad. It's what the narrative is just like all other countries destroyed in the past like Iraq is bad and then there is Russia also bad. But officials visiting China for talks, it doesn't sit well with the story.

When the US blocks China from manufacturing chips, China created its own chips. You see where it can go when they see the country has all the resources to survive.
Regular people just have to prepare for what's to come because the world order is changing.

[DrBeer]

3. Joke question: Don't you think that the capital of the country of the "bargaining chip" begins with the letter "M" ?

You seem to be referring to Russia, I know you don't like Russia and consider them a terrorist but if you think that China is taking advantage of Russia's friendship to bargain with the US, it's a bit funny and a bit childish. It is only a matter of time before China takes back Taiwan, it is more than capable of doing so at any time, even if Taiwan receives greater US support.

I don't believe what the US says, I believe they will still support Taiwan as they are doing, what they say in the press is just to appease China, they don't want to increase tensions with China. They are struggling with Ukraine against Russia, and continuing to raise tensions with China will not benefit them. They are still the country with the top military in the world, but at the same time, against two great powers like Russia and China, they will also fail quickly.

Let's start simple - who I don't like. I do not like - liars, thieves, rapists, murderers, terrorists, people who say and declare one thing, but do the exact opposite, I do not like it when the strong demonstrates strength while mocking the weak. It's all gross. It is unlikely that you love everything that I described above. Yes, and that is precisely why Russia is absolutely "not my favorite country" for me at the moment. Precisely because she does everything that is written above. To a normal person, with morality, intelligence, the presence of universal human values, any country that behaves this way will be hated and unacceptable. I hope everything is simple and clear here.

Now back to politics and the topic.
"China will take back Taiwan, it is more than capable of doing" - the soft way - no. The only option left is power. The force option is a blow to the Chinese economy, which is already going through hard times, and I would say the worst. The second problem is, most likely, the destruction of Taiwan's industrial enterprises, which are critically important to China. As you know, China is losing, irreversibly, Western technology and production. And this means China's return to a state close to the 70-80s of the last century, where China is a manufacturer of cheap, simple, low-quality products ... And as practice has shown - the Western assessment of the forces of a particular army - turned out to be, on the example of Russia, a very big mistake . How the whole world saw the so-called "second army of the world", armed with "more than 80% of unparalleled weapons", turned out to be a complete fake. At the same time, it is not clear - this assessment was a real mistake, or intentional, in order to give, in this case, the Kremlin, "to be satisfied with the status itself", but in reality to show itself as a complete failure!?
Likewise with China. Moreover, China has another problem - the population. A population that has already "tasted a taste of normal life." And today's change of the vector from the communist-capitalist to the communist-totalitarian, will give rise to huge tension in society, which will not support the war and the guaranteed degradation of the living standards of this population. Therefore, for China, the path of seizing Taiwan by force is a VERY BAD PATH.

"but at the same time, against two great powers like Russia and China, they will also be quickly defeated" - If Russia and China were allies - one would SUGGEST your statement.
But ... For China, Russia is a "guinea pig" and a raw materials appendage. For Russia, China is "BIG BROTHER".
The 2014 war - I suppose, agreed with Beijing. Target ? Extremely simple - to "feel" the international reaction to the forceful seizure of territories under some pretext. And if until 2022, China was watching and waiting for the RESULT to repeat this with China, and enjoy the helplessness of the West, which until 2022 only voiced "concern". The final "operation" began in 2022 at the end of February. Beijing was waiting for the final confirmation of the total impotence of the West, the EU, the USA, NATO, .... And then something went wrong. And Beijing was and remains very angry with Russia, for the fact that the Kremlin showed bravado, promised to "put the West to its knees with one left." And then UNITED the West! Which showed that in such situations they can answer and very seriously! China is not so afraid of Western military support for Taiwan as it is the imposition of Western sanctions against China. And now China is very close to sanctions ..

[Hispo]

It's hard seeing Taiwan being left out in this forced friendship between China and the US. I don't see the US scaring China one bit with all its show of military might and conducting exercise near Taiwan. Also, the US is still supporting Ukraine in its fight with Russia, so I don't think it's good for them economically to sustain two wars in different fronts. Perhaps, that's also the reason why the US is trying to build up its foundry for processors - they are letting Taiwan go and with it, their interest in TSMC.

Whichever the case for this sudden forging of friendship, it's good for the world (for now) except for Taiwan which is left against the Chinese government's mercy.

I agree that the United States is not in the position of supporting two countries at war, both militarily and with cash. China may be aware of it and the Chinese Communist Party could be waiting for the USA to completely run out of the money they can send and the ammo they can provide for Ukraine, so they can try a mostly pacific take over Taiwan.

It is a sad situation, if you ask me. Taiwan is a lovely country with their own people and a healthy economy, and much of the freedoms other western republics would love to have. It is not supposed to be used as a garbain chip like this...