Can CBDC users lose control of their money?

[Wind_FURY]

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.

CBDCs have nothing to offer that fiat have not offered. You can send fiat digitally and it is under the control of central banks and the government just like the CBDCs. In function, is there anything added to CBDCs that fiat can not offer? I see nothing new about CBDCs than claiming that it is built using blockchain. In function, digital fiat and CBDCs are the same thing and they totally invade people's privacy.

Actually, fiat in cash/physical form is better than CBDC as a form of money. There are limitations but we can send it to anybody we want, it's peer to peer, and transactions made with them could be very private if you choose it to be.

In CBDC, it's a centrally programable form of digital currency. It is built and developed to CENSOR YOU and take away your freedom to transact. How can many people not see that it's an anti-Bitcoin-ethos digital currency.

But it's good to see that the opinions have changed slightly as more information is taught to us plebs. I started a topic last year about the real nature of CBDC, but most of the replies were uninformed, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5382985.0

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[imamusma]

CBDC is the same as fiat, both are controlled by governments and banks. No difference can be expected from the CBDC, but it may only appear effective for adoption as another currency that helps financial transactions be more transparent. CBDC can also reduce reliance on paper money, but that is no different from digital fiat either.

We can't expect CBDC to support users' financial privacy, it's exactly the same way we use a bank. Transaction supervision is also still under the central bank, so that the CBDC is still a currency that is no different from before.

[iv4n]

CBDC is the same as fiat, both are controlled by governments and banks. No difference can be expected from the CBDC, but it may only appear effective for adoption as another currency that helps financial transactions be more transparent. CBDC can also reduce reliance on paper money, but that is no different from digital fiat either.

We can't expect CBDC to support users' financial privacy, it's exactly the same way we use a bank. Transaction supervision is also still under the central bank, so that the CBDC is still a currency that is no different from before.

It's the same, but it's not really the same... With CBDC the governments will have full control at any time. I guess the crypto world I imagine is still far away, but I don't see any other alternative to this system that can bring some good for the entire world. Most of us can't say we like this shit, but it's happening, and I believe we will see and learn more about CBDC and how it's actually working in the upcoming years.

[KiaKia]

CBDC does not appeal to me as long as Fiat and USDT or other stable coins exist unless maybe they introduce something benefitting CBDC users that is worth a shot. Maybe? I guess not.

Well, what can you expect from the government anyway?

Taking more than it gives to its adopters would have been the government's goal if Bitcoin was the government, which is why I am glad that something like Bitcoin exists in a decentralized form.

I don't plan on using CBDC and if the government are going to force it on the people they will have to eradicate paper money, I bet that's never going to happen, maybe far distance in the future it can be possible but twenty years to this time the world will still be spending Fiat in paper money.

[DeathAngel]

The whole point of a government / Central Bank issued CBDC is that the people lose ‘total control’ of their money. I mean most people won’t have a problem with every day purchases but they have the power to stop you buying certain products, stop you buying too much fuel if you use too much carbon. That’s where a CBDC leads to, authoritarianism, like China, social credit scores etc. I really hope CBDC’s do not happen, they will tax & know everything. If you fix a car for a neighbour for a small fee, they will know. They want to abolish cash, hopefully it doesn’t happen.

[hatshepsut93]

CBDCs have nothing to offer that fiat have not offered. You can send fiat digitally and it is under the control of central banks and the government just like the CBDCs. In function, is there anything added to CBDCs that fiat can not offer? I see nothing new about CBDCs than claiming that it is built using blockchain. In function, digital fiat and CBDCs are the same thing and they totally invade people's privacy.

I don't agree that they invade people's privacy. People agree with the terms and conditions, which include monitoring their accounts and reporting to authorities if needed. If they object to that, they can just not use that service and use paper money instead. CBDC will come with a contract agreement when someone creates an account, just like with banks.

Invasion of privacy is when someone is forcefully spying on you against your will.

[icalical]

'Can CBDC users lose control of their money?' well yes definitely, that's like the main purpose of the CBDC, cryptocurrencies are not controllable by the the government, while government need something that can be controlled so they can maintain stability of their people.

[Darker45]

The answer is a big yes. A CBDC is, first of all, centralized. Which means that somebody else has control over your funds. So, just like Bitcoin in centralized exchanges, those funds are not yours to begin with. This is probably the most fundamental feature of any CBDC-- centralization.

There are other features which may differ from one CBDC to another, though. Expiration, for example, may not be found in other versions. But the point remains that users don't have complete control not just of their money but also of their transactions.

[MusaMohamed]

People in the "cryptocurrency community" should know better than other people that CBDC is not offering anything fundamentally different from the fiat that they are already using every day. CBDC is another currency issued by the banks and both controlled and used through the banks which is practically similar to fiat which is also issued and controlled by the banks and almost always used through the banks (except when you use cash but who is these days?).

You already don't have any privacy when you use banks and using CBDC isn't going to change that.

CBDCs are other forms of fiat currencies and they all are created and controlled by central banks. In the past central banks print money from factories. In future with CBDCs, they will be minted from thin air, code and data centers.

[GUIDE] All About Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC)
How Money is made

The video How is Money Created? – Everything You Need to Know shows how fiat currencies can be printed from paper and why their purchasing power becomes smaller.

Purchasing power of the US. dollar over time

[CryptoBuds]

That's why I still prefer fiat and don't support the launch of CBDCs, but it's inevitable that we can't avoid it. CBDC would be a serious invasion of privacy, and it is safe to say that we will lose all control of our assets if CBDC is used to replace fiat money completely.

With fiat we can still stay anonymous and use it however we want, but with CBDC that will completely disappear. The government will know our every action, even the smallest expenditure for daily needs through CBDC. CBDC is the end of our privacy, but fortunately, bitcoin has come at the right time.

CBDC are not much different from fiat, which is on our bank card, except that we cannot withdraw this money. And this means that almost always this money will be under the control of the bank.

Those who want to use money with their card without dealing with cash can already do it without any problems. But CBDC will be the forced use of digital currencies, as governments plan to completely withdraw cash from circulation.

I do not believe that it is possible to do this in the near future, most likely CBDC will exist for some time in parallel with cash, because all segments of the population will not be able to adapt to the new reality equally quickly.

Of course, the complete elimination of cash is not easy and will not happen soon because there is still a part of the world's population that does not know how to use the internet as well as smartphones, and people with physical disabilities, the government also needs to come up with a solution for them before phasing out cash altogether.
Many small countries have failed to implement CBDC, and many laugh, but that will not stop the government's determination when they know the benefits it brings them. But CBDC is inevitable and cannot prevent it.

[Iroh]

Actually, fiat in cash/physical form is better than CBDC as a form of money. There are limitations but we can send it to anybody we want, it's peer to peer, and transactions made with them could be very private if you choose it to be.

Cold hard cash is way better than these CBDCs as a method of making transactions. You could purchase whatever and the only people to know about the transaction would be you and the seller. Nice and private.
CBDC is literally government owned and backed digital currency. They are no different than the fiat being used, although fiat in its physical form gives more privacy than these CBDCs would ever give.
Just like an individuals bank account could be frozen along with the funds in it, users of CBDCs could as well lose control of their funds, perhaps even faster as they were never in total control in the first place.

[Silberman]

...

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.


Information taken from: "Brazil’s CBDC pilot contains code that can freeze or reduce funds, dev claims".

The answer to this question is very obvious, governments want complete control over you and your money, if they have both then they can basically control their population as they want, since anyone which opposes them can be silenced with just a few mouse clicks while right now this is way more difficult to do, now some people may say that this is for our own good, but since when has the government acted only for the benefit of their citizens instead of acting for its own benefits?

[justdimin]

As long as CBDC is Centralized (as the name suggests) or as long as Centralized Financial system is concerned, expect its ideals/principles to be in complete opposite of the ideals of Decentralized currencies like Bitcoin. Besides, Fiat or National Currency like the CBDC would have to be in accordance with existing national laws that guide the modern financial system. Such laws cannot guarantee users privacy or prevent accounts freezing, as long as centralization is concerned. So, users should not expect their fundamental rights not to be violated by Central Bank, governments or others.

CBDC will always remain to be centralized because it was a product of a bank and a bank is also centralized. It will remain to be this way because this what their advocacy is. They can't guarantee privacy but they can guarantee freezing of accounts most especially if they see a suspicious activity on ones account.

If we are using their service, it's of course better to stay positive and don't think that something bad will happen to you even if you know that it's possible to happen at any moment but if you are getting paranoid, you are always free to leave them and switch on something that is decentralized like Bitcoin. We only need to make sure that we don't store it on centralized exchange or on a custodial wallet.

[kryptqnick]

I agree that a CBDC is largely another step away from financial freedom, and not only in comparison with cryptos like Bitcoin, but compared to fiat as well. When it comes to fiat, people can use cash and remain largely untraceable. If they use bank accounts, it's worth noting that there are usually a lot of banks to choose from, and many of them are private. With CBDC, everything is perfectly traceable and under direct Central Bank control, if I understand correctly.
But I should also note that it's just an experiment, and using this CBDC is a choice people can make (they aren't forced to switch to it, right?). Some people don't care about privacy and financial freedom, and it's also a choice. To them, CBDC can be an interesting thing to try.

[DanWalker]

CBDC is the same as fiat, both are controlled by governments and banks. No difference can be expected from the CBDC, but it may only appear effective for adoption as another currency that helps financial transactions be more transparent. CBDC can also reduce reliance on paper money, but that is no different from digital fiat either.

We can't expect CBDC to support users' financial privacy, it's exactly the same way we use a bank. Transaction supervision is also still under the central bank, so that the CBDC is still a currency that is no different from before.

CBDCs are fiat money in digital form, there will be basically no difference as they are still controlled and regulated by the government. But there is a difference, fiat transactions will still become more private than CBDC. When you use CBDC, all the data about your assets will be entirely controlled by the government, but that is impossible if you hold a large amount of cash.

Apart from bitcoin, we should never expect any other currency that can give us privacy, especially those issued by the government, because that is what they need to control us.

[Inwestour]

I agree that a CBDC is largely another step away from financial freedom, and not only in comparison with cryptos like Bitcoin, but compared to fiat as well. When it comes to fiat, people can use cash and remain largely untraceable. If they use bank accounts, it's worth noting that there are usually a lot of banks to choose from, and many of them are private. With CBDC, everything is perfectly traceable and under direct Central Bank control, if I understand correctly.
But I should also note that it's just an experiment, and using this CBDC is a choice people can make (they aren't forced to switch to it, right?). Some people don't care about privacy and financial freedom, and it's also a choice. To them, CBDC can be an interesting thing to try.

Not yet forced, but what if one day governments make CBDC mandatory and you no longer have the ability to use cash?

At first it will be like an experiment, CBDC will be introduced gradually so that for more and more people it will become “convenient”, but in the end the main goal is to remove cash from circulation and leave only CBDC. Indeed, there are those who do not worry about their privacy, in addition, I am sure that, those who will use digital currencies, will be told about many advantages of this.

But what can be changed in this situation, is there any way to stop it?

[Wend]

I agree that a CBDC is largely another step away from financial freedom, and not only in comparison with cryptos like Bitcoin, but compared to fiat as well. When it comes to fiat, people can use cash and remain largely untraceable. If they use bank accounts, it's worth noting that there are usually a lot of banks to choose from, and many of them are private. With CBDC, everything is perfectly traceable and under direct Central Bank control, if I understand correctly.
But I should also note that it's just an experiment, and using this CBDC is a choice people can make (they aren't forced to switch to it, right?). Some people don't care about privacy and financial freedom, and it's also a choice. To them, CBDC can be an interesting thing to try.

Not yet forced, but what if one day governments make CBDC mandatory and you no longer have the ability to use cash?

At first it will be like an experiment, CBDC will be introduced gradually so that for more and more people it will become “convenient”, but in the end the main goal is to remove cash from circulation and leave only CBDC. Indeed, there are those who do not worry about their privacy, in addition, I am sure that, those who will use digital currencies, will be told about many advantages of this.

But what can be changed in this situation, is there any way to stop it?

Everything about CBDCs is still in beta and it will take a long time for CBDCs to become popular. But I agree with you that CBDC is inevitable and that it will completely replace cash in the future is almost certain. Furthermore, there will be no way to stop it because the government will deploy it whether we want to or not. And only those who invest in bitcoin, who value privacy, will see the harm of CBDCs. As for general users, they see this as a step forward in technology, and they will be ready to accept it when the government deploys it.

[harapan]

CBDC is the same thing as fiat. The only difference is one is a digital currency. 
So what ever the government can do to your bank account,  they can also do to your funds in form of CBDC.  At no point in anybody's life should he think this is anything different from fiat. 
The government criticised bitcoin for so long only to make a photocopy,  while keeping out all the great features of Bitcoin.   

The only reason why the government is creating CBDC is because they can't stop the growth of the cryto industry and they have seen that they could lose the fight if they don't do something about it. They're not doing it for the benefit of any people,  they're just want another way to be able to control it's people. 

[uneng]

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.

Of course it will work directly against common citizens who are the sheep of the society. They will be on the hands of the government more than they have ever been. And considering how thirsty this currently brazilian government is for raising taxes income and controlling the individuals closely, this CBDC will only give them more power they are desperate for to use in abusive ways. I'm just thankful to have Bitcoin as an alternative yet.

[Wind_FURY]

The whole point of a government / Central Bank issued CBDC is that the people lose ‘total control’ of their money. I mean most people won’t have a problem with every day purchases but they have the power to stop you buying certain products, stop you buying too much fuel if you use too much carbon. That’s where a CBDC leads to, authoritarianism, like China, social credit scores etc. I really hope CBDC’s do not happen, they will tax & know everything. If you fix a car for a neighbour for a small fee, they will know. They want to abolish cash, hopefully it doesn’t happen.

Another nefarious thing they could do is if you have a low credit score. They could program the system to disallow those people from spending too much until the debts are paid, which wouldn't be too bad to help control spending habits. Haha.

I have debated about Bitcoin having more value in a CBDC world a year ago, but no one truly got the context because most of the posters of the forum during that time thought CBDC is going to be a simple replacement for paper money without the programmability.