vave.com - is a scammers & nationalists

[h4nnmann11]

2. They have a restriction, but not stand with their word (If they really care about it, they should block your IP + ask KYC first before make any deposit.

This is one of the shity tactic casino.

I was to say this also. I read their Terms and conditions

2.1.      Any kind of sports betting or live betting for players from Russia is strictly prohibited. We reserve the right to confiscate funds and block an account if it is proven that sports betting was made by a Russian citizen.

2.2.      Should any of these rules be violated, the Company reserves the right to refuse to pay any winnings or to refund stakes, as well as to cancel any bets. The Company shall not be liable in relation to the moment when they become aware that the customer falls within any of the aforementioned categories. This means that the Company shall be entitled to take the above measures at any time once they have become aware that the customer is an individual who can be designated as above.

Depending on when these clauses were added to their rules like you claimed they were not there at the time you registered, they should have made effort to identify your IP or restricted Russian IP from registering on their website to safe everyone the headache.

My question is did you evade any registration process or using VPN? If you are not guilty of violating registration procedure then they should be able to identify you were registering from Russia.

I used proxy. But the problem is that my friends used vave.com through a proxy and went through KYC in July 2023 on their Russian documents and everything was fine and KYC was successful. My friends recommended vave.com to me.

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[h4nnmann11]

Sometimes some cases I read here sounds very funny tough. Casinos too can be this funny too. For such a long time a client been playing and on negative and they kept silent over it and did not stop the loss. OP made deposit and they did not ask OP for KYC to verify OPs identity but when OP started to win and beginning to make withdrawal there comes the  KYC policies and terms of services. I wonder when all these bruhaha with casinos would stop. Why not state you terms and conditions of service and engagement clear for prospective members to see while doings things with shady intentions to hold perceived members down to ransom. Its not fair though and the spate at which such issues is coming forte is not good.

OP your complaint is some worth sincere but it would require you to go the extra miles in uploading a proof for members to see because just this is not enough to convince members to believe you are saying the real thing as it happened.

proof of my complaint
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iEs4BtjrVENlTpUIA1rCBLE8W4jwD1iQ?usp=sharing

[decodx]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iEs4BtjrVENlTpUIA1rCBLE8W4jwD1iQ?usp=drive_link
there is a screenshots

As you're still new to the forum and can't upload pictures yet, I'd be happy to re-share your screenshots in a more user-friendly format.

[h4nnmann11]

Do I understand correctly that you only won $1.5k from their bookie but they still confiscated $15k? If so, that's thieft 

I tried to find when they changed the TOS with no luck but my Russian friend successfully verified his account no more than a week ago and withdrew all his winnings, so it must be a very recent change. He also told me that Sportsbook is no longer available to him, so it's not really clear how you violate their TOS if they just disabled Sportsbook for any Russian player right after the TOS change.

Personally, I had a similar case when the casino put my country on the list of banned countries and retroactively canceled my winnings, but after complaining to the licensor, they obliged to pay out every penny.

yes, you understood everything correctly. My account was red (lost more than won) and the payouts were going well. As soon as my account went green (won $1.5k more than I lost) they requested KYC and took my $18k winnings.

[h4nnmann11]

@OP have you asked them when they added that rules? because if they added that months after the war between Ukraine and Russia, I would have assumed at this points that they would have a translated version of that rules in Russian and other languages.

would you mind posting screenshots of your conversation with their support. also, I'd suggest to refrain from spamming the same thing on their ANN thread, you could get banned from doing it.

really strange case here

but ím wondering how OP were able to get such high amount, i got limited after winning 800 Dollar

not everyone gets limited after winning several hundred dollars.

vave.com didn't reply to me when they added the item about Russian players.

[decodx]

@OP have you asked them when they added that rules? because if they added that months after the war between Ukraine and Russia, I would have assumed at this points that they would have a translated version of that rules in Russian and other languages.

would you mind posting screenshots of your conversation with their support. also, I'd suggest to refrain from spamming the same thing on their ANN thread, you could get banned from doing it.

really strange case here

but ím wondering how OP were able to get such high amount, i got limited after winning 800 Dollar

not everyone gets limited after winning several hundred dollars.

vave.com didn't reply to me when they added the item about Russian players.

I noticed that the casino staff confirmed in one of the emails that the current terms and conditions had been newly implemented on their website by the casino management. However, they avoided addressing whether these conditions were in place before you registered on the website or not. To me, this strongly suggests the casino's questionable behavior, indicating their main goal was to confiscate your funds as soon as your balance turned positive.

Also, if the casino actually wants to stick to their own rules, they should give you a full refund instead of just turning down the winning bets while taking the losing ones.

[h4nnmann11]

Are you geoblocked and have to use a VPN to get in? If you are goeblocked then it's your fault. If not you are getting scammed.

you might wanna read upon his post further. He literally said that he once was able to withdraw money form vave.com until he tried one day to do so and was disallowed, he got hit with a new change in their terms agreement that specifically bars russians from playing in their site. Such a change was weird and so they contacted him, under which they compensated the guy for the trouble with some extra as well. This is clear admission of guilt and a massive misplay on vave's part. Not in any way whatsoever the gambler's fault. He's borderline scammed if not for the fact that they paid him back his winnings and extra bonus for the trouble. which reinforces the fact that these gambling sites and casinos should always inform their players of changes like these.

they gave away only $3,000 of the $17,000 deposit. And the account had $18,000. That is, they did not return my money to me and did not return any bonus on top of the payment.

[Coin_trader]

Do I understand correctly that you only won $1.5k from their bookie but they still confiscated $15k? If so, that's thieft 

I tried to find when they changed the TOS with no luck but my Russian friend successfully verified his account no more than a week ago and withdrew all his winnings, so it must be a very recent change. He also told me that Sportsbook is no longer available to him, so it's not really clear how you violate their TOS if they just disabled Sportsbook for any Russian player right after the TOS change.

Personally, I had a similar case when the casino put my country on the list of banned countries and retroactively canceled my winnings, but after complaining to the licensor, they obliged to pay out every penny.

yes, you understood everything correctly. My account was red (lost more than won) and the payouts were going well. As soon as my account went green (won $1.5k more than I lost) they requested KYC and took my $18k winnings.

By your definition of “winnings” means your original bankroll plus your 1.5K profit is hostage on the casino?

Do you read their ToS before you play? They knew the fact that Russian players is typically restricted to play in the online casino due to the license requirements. They are using this to hostage your money which they really have a claim in technical perspective due to ToS violation. I’m not aware how the ToS of Vave.com looks like but reading their recent answer to your queries seems like they using your locality as trump card to hold your funds which is really shady.

But they should atleast refund your original balance and confiscate only your profit. This is the downside on playing to casino that you knew that you are violating their ToS simce your country is sanctioned on most services outside your country. They will surely allow you to play and lose but they will do this scammy trick when you are on profit side.

[h4nnmann11]

Do I understand correctly that you only won $1.5k from their bookie but they still confiscated $15k? If so, that's thieft 

I tried to find when they changed the TOS with no luck but my Russian friend successfully verified his account no more than a week ago and withdrew all his winnings, so it must be a very recent change. He also told me that Sportsbook is no longer available to him, so it's not really clear how you violate their TOS if they just disabled Sportsbook for any Russian player right after the TOS change.

Personally, I had a similar case when the casino put my country on the list of banned countries and retroactively canceled my winnings, but after complaining to the licensor, they obliged to pay out every penny.

yes, you understood everything correctly. My account was red (lost more than won) and the payouts were going well. As soon as my account went green (won $1.5k more than I lost) they requested KYC and took my $18k winnings.

By your definition of “winnings” means your original bankroll plus your 1.5K profit is hostage on the casino?

Do you read their ToS before you play? They knew the fact that Russian players is typically restricted to play in the online casino due to the license requirements. They are using this to hostage your money which they really have a claim in technical perspective due to ToS violation. I’m not aware how the ToS of Vave.com looks like but reading their recent answer to your queries seems like they using your locality as trump card to hold your funds which is really shady.

But they should atleast refund your original balance and confiscate only your profit. This is the downside on playing to casino that you knew that you are violating their ToS simce your country is sanctioned on most services outside your country. They will surely allow you to play and lose but they will do this scammy trick when you are on profit side.

[/quote]
By your definition of “winnings” means your original bankroll plus your 1.5K profit is hostage on the casino?
[/quote]


you understood correctly about winning. But specifically about the casino, they have a clause and there are players from Belarus, Curacao, Estonia, Israel, Latvia, Lithuania, United Kingdom, United States of America, Cyprus, France, Netherlands and that they are forbidden to play games on vave.com. And about Russian players, it was just said that you can’t make sports bets.

[h4nnmann11]

vave still added item 2.1. in the rules in Russian. Looks like they did it today or yesterday. Because 2 days ago I went there and there was no this item. https://vave.com/en/information/terms-and-conditions




they also answered that they introduced this rule about Russian players less than a month ago. So they had to notify me about this, since I was already an active player and at least give back my deposits.

proof - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11_5q2BfKJnV7jA4fx4cbVjHR_kJHuAHX?usp=drive_link

[decodx]

vave still added item 2.1. in the rules in Russian. Looks like they did it today or yesterday. Because 2 days ago I went there and there was no this item. https://vave.com/en/information/terms-and-conditions




they also answered that they introduced this rule about Russian players less than a month ago. So they had to notify me about this, since I was already an active player and at least give back my deposits.

proof - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11_5q2BfKJnV7jA4fx4cbVjHR_kJHuAHX?usp=drive_link

I also noticed that they inserted rule 2.1 into their Terms of Service (Russian translation) today. This particular item wasn't there yesterday.

Have you considered bringing your case to their licensor and filing a formal complaint? Also, since it seems like you're in the right here, why not explore third-party mediation? In my experience, the following are reputable mediators:

https://thepogg.com/
https://www.casinomeister.com/
https://casino.guru/
https://www.askgamblers.com/
Even if they choose not to respond to any of the mediators listed above, it could still negatively impact their reputation on those platforms.


ps. I edited your quote to show the screenshots.

[h4nnmann11]

vave still added item 2.1. in the rules in Russian. Looks like they did it today or yesterday. Because 2 days ago I went there and there was no this item. https://vave.com/en/information/terms-and-conditions




they also answered that they introduced this rule about Russian players less than a month ago. So they had to notify me about this, since I was already an active player and at least give back my deposits.

proof - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11_5q2BfKJnV7jA4fx4cbVjHR_kJHuAHX?usp=drive_link

I also noticed that they inserted rule 2.1 into their Terms of Service (Russian translation) today. This particular item wasn't there yesterday.

Have you considered bringing your case to their licensor and filing a formal complaint? Also, since it seems like you're in the right here, why not explore third-party mediation? In my experience, the following are reputable mediators:

https://thepogg.com/
https://www.casinomeister.com/
https://casino.guru/
https://www.askgamblers.com/
Even if they choose not to respond to any of the mediators listed above, it could still negatively impact their reputation on those platforms.


ps. I edited your quote to show the screenshots.

thanks for the help. I appreciate it.

[Slow death]

This is some kind of spammer. Spammed the entire casino topic with his identical posts. Wrote there in a row as many as 7 identical posts. And plus there casino representative has already responded to him. And this spammer was on the forum today, but did not comment. And most importantly, the casino representative referred to the Russian language page of the casino rules, which clearly states that quote "In the event of there being a discrepancy between the English language version of these rules and any other language version, the English language version will prevail".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5433885.msg62741338#msg62741338

I don't think he created many threads, he only created this thread and posted it on the casino's ann thread, I don't see how that would be spam


well, as far as i know ( i could be wrong ) but the sanctions are not prohibiting all citizens of russia not to play in online casinos, now if i am wrong and online casinos are prohibited from accepting people from russia then even if in the casino's totes do not mention anything about Russian citizens they could confiscate your money claiming that they are complying with international laws. From what I read of the response from their representative at this casino, he said that the casino did not confiscate anything, I confess that I did not understand what he means by that, if he is saying that they did not confiscate anything in your account and you are saying that you had money at the casino, then he said he asked you to send your username, you already sent him your username?

something that I see as being very strange is that the casino representative here on the forum ran to say that there was no deduction of money from your account, funny that he says that he found that, but when you showed him that money was deducted from your account then he then asked you for your username to go check your problem, I wonder why the casino representative ran to say that there was no deduction in your account and he still says that he found it, but then he asked you for your data? this is not a good sign, it looks like the casino is creating some kind of excuse for not paying you mainly because then it says that people from russia cannot use the casino, with that it is already clear that unfortunately these guys are not going to get you pay nothing

they already have an argument for not paying you, in their next answer they will say that because you are a Russian citizen and you have used the casino, so they cannot pay you and your account will be closed, I hope I am wrong in my prediction, but knowing the new casinos , I do not doubt that these will be their next answers, unfortunately casino tos are used as weapons by many new casinos, even when there is nothing in the tos they will add something to serve as an argument for not paying

[h4nnmann11]

This is some kind of spammer. Spammed the entire casino topic with his identical posts. Wrote there in a row as many as 7 identical posts. And plus there casino representative has already responded to him. And this spammer was on the forum today, but did not comment. And most importantly, the casino representative referred to the Russian language page of the casino rules, which clearly states that quote "In the event of there being a discrepancy between the English language version of these rules and any other language version, the English language version will prevail".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5433885.msg62741338#msg62741338

I don't think he created many threads, he only created this thread and posted it on the casino's ann thread, I don't see how that would be spam


well, as far as i know ( i could be wrong ) but the sanctions are not prohibiting all citizens of russia not to play in online casinos, now if i am wrong and online casinos are prohibited from accepting people from russia then even if in the casino's totes do not mention anything about Russian citizens they could confiscate your money claiming that they are complying with international laws. From what I read of the response from their representative at this casino, he said that the casino did not confiscate anything, I confess that I did not understand what he means by that, if he is saying that they did not confiscate anything in your account and you are saying that you had money at the casino, then he said he asked you to send your username, you already sent him your username?

something that I see as being very strange is that the casino representative here on the forum ran to say that there was no deduction of money from your account, funny that he says that he found that, but when you showed him that money was deducted from your account then he then asked you for your username to go check your problem, I wonder why the casino representative ran to say that there was no deduction in your account and he still says that he found it, but then he asked you for your data? this is not a good sign, it looks like the casino is creating some kind of excuse for not paying you mainly because then it says that people from russia cannot use the casino, with that it is already clear that unfortunately these guys are not going to get you pay nothing

they already have an argument for not paying you, in their next answer they will say that because you are a Russian citizen and you have used the casino, so they cannot pay you and your account will be closed, I hope I am wrong in my prediction, but knowing the new casinos , I do not doubt that these will be their next answers, unfortunately casino tos are used as weapons by many new casinos, even when there is nothing in the tos they will add something to serve as an argument for not paying

sent them my username and e-mail registered on vave in telegram. So far, no one has answered.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

That's tough luck.
But it's the usual way these sites conduct their business. As long as you are down, no problem. As soon as you want to withdraw "their money", here come the KYC mail and further problems.

Changing the TOS without informing the players has been seen a lot lately. Stake does this all the time recently, they don't care if people read the new rules as long as they are protected by them.

People accept the rules when the register. Newly implemented rules clearly must be pointed out. I don't understand why that would be so hard, just send an email to all existing players that the TOS have changed, case closed.
Them changing the rules now, and you have proof of that, might play into your case against them. Maybe you can file a complaint at askgamblers or one of those other mediation sites.

I really hope the matter can be solved but given the history of casinos making changes as a disadvantage to the players I clearly doubt it, at least without any outside help.

By the way, I also have never heard of this site. Why deposit so much money at a relatively unknown gambling site is always beyond my understanding. I wouldn't take that risk. Those sites have 0 reputation and even making this case public will not really be interesting for them.

[Porfirii]

-snip-

Changing the TOS without informing the players has been seen a lot lately. Stake does this all the time recently, they don't care if people read the new rules as long as they are protected by them.

People accept the rules when the register. Newly implemented rules clearly must be pointed out. I don't understand why that would be so hard, just send an email to all existing players that the TOS have changed, case closed.
Them changing the rules now, and you have proof of that, might play into your case against them. Maybe you can file a complaint at askgamblers or one of those other mediation sites.

I really hope the matter can be solved but given the history of casinos making changes as a disadvantage to the players I clearly doubt it, at least without any outside help.

I have seen a few TOS which stated that changes in the rules would have some kind of vacatio legis of 15 days, so during that time they are not firm and you can make the corresponding decisions. Of course, this is tricky because, if they don't notify you about these changes, it is difficult to constantly monitor the TOS of all the services you use, as long as you don't dedicate professionally to it, but that's the way these things work in the internet, not only in gambling.

By the way, I also have never heard of this site. Why deposit so much money at a relatively unknown gambling site is always beyond my understanding. I wouldn't take that risk. Those sites have 0 reputation and even making this case public will not really be interesting for them.

That's a mystery to me too AHOYBRAUSE: we keep seeing cases like that and we keep asking ourselves "why!?". There are so many tested platforms, why would anybody deposit such amounts at an unknown one with zero reputation?

[Cadaver20]

sent them my username and e-mail registered on vave in telegram. So far, no one has answered.

They will not respond to your message. As long as you keep losing your money in these casinos, the rules & regulations will be fine. Whenever you win and try to withdraw money, problems will start. If you win too much money, your account will be banned. This is their policy.

[decodx]

By the way, I also have never heard of this site. Why deposit so much money at a relatively unknown gambling site is always beyond my understanding. I wouldn't take that risk. Those sites have 0 reputation and even making this case public will not really be interesting for them.

That's a mystery to me too AHOYBRAUSE: we keep seeing cases like that and we keep asking ourselves "why!?". There are so many tested platforms, why would anybody deposit such amounts at an unknown one with zero reputation?

I can't speak for the OP, but I can share from my own experience. When I first started gambling, I was completely clueless. I had no idea which platforms were trustworthy or reputable, and I was pretty lost when it came to finding them. In the early days, I experimented with different online casinos. Luckily, back then, strict KYC verification wasn't a big thing, so I didn't have to share my real personal info. I basically judged casinos based on my own experience. Needless to say, my experiences weren't always rosy. It wasn't until later that I stumbled upon this forum and other reputable casino review sites like BTCGOSU and the like.

So, I don't really feel like it's fair to pass judgment on the OP for going with a casino that isn't popular here. Perhaps the casino has some popularity within his local community or social circle. Maybe he stumbled upon an ad or a special promo offer that caught his attention. Or maybe he had some other valid reason for picking that casino. However, that doesn't give the casino a free pass to pull a scam on players.

[TwitchySeal]

If the clause that explains that Russian players will have their funds seized if they make certain wagers is excluded from the Russian terms, and the player is able to make a wager without being warned, then I consider it unethical to enforce the terms.

Adding it to the Russian terms after a player with frozen funds points out that it was missing, and then still refusing to pay the player just makes them look even more shady.

Even if it were included in the Russian terms, if they don't give a warning or anything and allow a player to make the wager the same as any other non restricted wager, I would still consider it unethical.  If players from Russia aren't allowed to make sports wagers, then don't offer sports wagers to players from Russia.  Seizing player funds should not be part of your business model.

Maybe their lawyer gave them that to include in English, but they haven’t hired translators to get it added in other languages also.

Hired translators?  It's 2023 and they're running a crypto casino. 

[jostorres]

I've already asked about this in their ANN thread. The key question here is when exactly they introduced the restriction for Russian citizens in their Terms of Service. Also, I'm curious why Russia isn't listed among the other restricted countries, especially if it's supposedly a requirement from their licensee, as they claim.

If this is a recent inclusion in their terms, which seems likely considering they haven't updated the other languages, then they have no right to confiscate the player's funds. In that case, the player's winnings are valid and should be rightfully upheld.

What you said is true, but who is the rule maker around there? It's them! We can't make them pay OP whatever they owe him as long as they don't want to, and since they have already added the clause in their terms and conditions, we can't prove that they have added that recently unless one of us or maybe OP has a screenshot of the same position of terms and conditions from before the inclusion of the new rule which will prove that they are lying.

If we can't prove that they have added the rule recently, after the winnings of OP, only so that they don't have to pay him his winnings, then we might have a case against the platform, otherwise, I don't see them being good enough to be willing to pay him what he has won without dragging this matter much.