- UGA - a Gamblers Union

[Nrcewker]

Definitely your intentions are great, but I felt like there is currently no need of this. We have been encircled with many social medias already. So I highly doubt anyone will show more interest in something like this. Moreover we have also a specific section here in the forum to solve issues like this, where people share how casinos cheat them. You can post about your issue in this Scam Accusation section. If a casino is legit then definitely they will solve this issue. So i feel currently there is no need.

[1714687555]

1714687555

[1714687555]

1714687555

[Dimitri94]

You have good intentions I hope you will not follow it up with asking for funds from those who are interested, why the need to create, and why you, gamblers choose to be independent I have not heard of a gamblers association online if it is about complaint there are already platforms for that and this includes this forum.

There's also a possibility of deceit because players will come to you with bad intentions to just use your platform to demand or extort casinos, I don't think it's a good idea better just launch a review site it's not complicated and it will save you from the many headaches.

I also think the OP's intention is good. He wants the gamblers not to be disrespected in any way. If there is any such behavior then everyone can prevent it by forming a unity. But it is not possible to implement such initiatives in online casinos. Everyone is different  and it is difficult to organize any action against them. However, if we can solve those issues through the forum without taking action in this way, then the matter will not be able to take a complicated shape. I think that is the best solution if we can get a better resolution of those issues through forum discussion through information and data.

[3kpk3]

Trying to start something like AskGamblers, SBR, OLBG etc in the crypto space? That's very, very difficult op since crypto gambling sites don't have physical locations which is why it's a lot tougher to drag them to court.

Best example in this case is 1xbit which is still operating even though many, many punters tried ending their business, but failed sadly.

[paxmao]

Trying to start something like AskGamblers, SBR, OLBG etc in the crypto space? That's very, very difficult op since crypto gambling sites don't have physical locations which is why it's a lot tougher to drag them to court.

Best example in this case is 1xbit which is still operating even though many, many punters tried ending their business, but failed sadly.

The OP would need to create a community and that works usually by either having a massive interest in the subject and creating a momentum in social interest or by spending money to grab traction, which is probably not that interesting if there is not a clear long term view to capture users and eventually have them paying for the information or monetising somehow else.

[LUCKMCFLY]

~snip~

From the point of view that there may be a union that can help fight for just cases, if it is good that it exists, as you say, it is very difficult for a platform to have an error like that, but it can occur, as I have said. , it is a system, and systems sometimes fail, and this can cause many misunderstandings, suddenly if we are playing in a casino and then we go to a slot machine, suddenly in the slots I have a balance of 20usd and I start playing and I get a profit of 2000-2500usd and I want to withdraw it, then they tell me that I can't withdraw it because it turns out that the slot machine had a bug and it was a total mistake that I had won that, and they don't give it to me but they take away my balance, which would we think? obviously the casino robbed me, oh it was a bug, but it wasn't my fault, so how could it not be my fault and I won, because if I had lost then the casino doesn't tell me, we will refund the money you lost in slot did we have a mistake? No, then sometimes things like that have happened and that is a reason to complain, fight and for the casino to assume the consequence.

Many casinos now rely on the Tos, and this has caused a lot of surprise, because now they say that the casino can change the Tos like this because it suits them, and that is not correct, because that is why one accepts their registration contracts where these Tos are established, and the worst thing is that I have seen users, players, or well I don't know if they are actually players who say that they agree to change the Tos at the convenience of the casino, so that is not Right, for me things like that are not right, because then what are Coughs for? There are many things that do need to be fought and raised, I consider that this may be something that could have a but if it comes from a union from Bitcointalk it would have a lot of weight, of course this of defending cases that are totally well established and argued with their evidence, where it is determined that the client or player is right.

When playing, real money, real aspirations, and real dreams are put in play. Therefore, when a system error occurs and you win, it is not just about the money, but also about the principle! If you win due to a system error and they do not honour it, it is as if they are stealing your dreams. And that is not correct, not at all correct
If casinos can just change the Tos whenever they feel like it, what's the point of having them in the first place? This is equivalent to saying, "Hey, we have rules, but we can change them whenever we want." That is simply not fair. And individuals, actual people, who say they approve of these alterations? Perhaps they do not comprehend the significance of the situation, or perhaps they are overly trusting. But trust me, it's not appropriate
If there's a union from Bitcointalk that can step in and help, then that's fantastic! They would have the weight, authority, and ability to make a significant difference. But keep in mind that it's not only about winning or losing; it's also about fairness, justice, and standing up for what's right

Of course, when things are like this they can happen with a better position, it is true what you say, when a person has this type of problem, it cannot happen like this, a system error that makes us pay, but if the error had been in against us, do they return the money? I don't know, this is very debatable, I would believe that the casinos with the greatest reputation in the forum would return the money, but the casinos that are new and don't have that much time could be very different when it comes to these cases, they want money, they want to win, it is their business, although I consider this something like a theft, when a casino has this type of problem, to avoid problems, what it should do is assume that as a loss, every mistake that there is in a casino is responsible. of the casino and you must assume it as such, that is what it should be.

There are casinos that when they start or do it in an unprecedented way, in style, with great capital and with a lot of Desire to get ahead , those casinos do well, but there are times when there are many casinos that start and do not have enough capital and they intend to capitalize on the customers who register at the casino, that seems to me to be a very reckless practice, for some it turns out well, for others it doesn't, however this is something that I do not Recommend , because they are basically sticking to something that It is not safe, something that Cannot bring them good Results , then when they start to see it is very easy for a caisnoq to apply this top strategy because they will quickly go bankrupt, with a whale that makes a very strong bet, because they will win And where are they going to get the money to pay them? That is what we consider to be a very risky practice, so for a casino many things must be done , and the most important for me is that there is good capital so that they can do things with more order, And no, when there is no capital it is best not to Invent anything and wait until you have something considerable.

[Dunamisx]

Trying to start something like AskGamblers, SBR, OLBG etc in the crypto space? That's very, very difficult op since crypto gambling sites don't have physical locations which is why it's a lot tougher to drag them to court.

I don't even think we needed all these when everyone is basically busy and much more concerned about himself and how he gambles, what should i think about at this period than myself instead of joining a union kind of group that will end up monetizing you or posting irrelevant activities and scam, why do i need to join a group when even if they have a physical representation doesn't guarantee their fairness or trust.

[Youngkhngdiddy]

I don't even think we needed all these when everyone is basically busy and much more concerned about himself and how he gambles, what should i think about at this period than myself instead of joining a union kind of group that will end up monetizing you or posting irrelevant activities and scam, why do i need to join a group when even if they have a physical representation doesn't guarantee their fairness or trust.

 I don’t see the need for the union, because for you to register you need to be 18 years old, and you know the responsibilities of gambling,  the fact that this union creates rules and laws will caught the fun of people gambling. Some people prefer to work alone and make decisions by their self and the freedom of choices.  Decisions making will be slow in the union because they will have to pass nor discuss any decisions among officials, not every decision is agreed by the party thus making it slow and difficult to make people to join.
  Trust issues too may arise and when there is a mismanagement of funds by officials. Making it difficult for people to trust the union. A lot of complication may arise during their meetings, disagreement may occur between members. It’s really not necessary in my ends having the union when. Different platforms with different rules, so it’s best one stick to it favorite platform to avoid complications.

[LUCKMCFLY]

Trying to start something like AskGamblers, SBR, OLBG etc in the crypto space? That's very, very difficult op since crypto gambling sites don't have physical locations which is why it's a lot tougher to drag them to court.

I don't even think we needed all these when everyone is basically busy and much more concerned about himself and how he gambles, what should i think about at this period than myself instead of joining a union kind of group that will end up monetizing you or posting irrelevant activities and scam, why do i need to join a group when even if they have a physical representation doesn't guarantee their fairness or trust.

What they say is Very true, we must see all the possibilities of Doing things better and one of these is what they are stating, but it would be good to give it some Credibility, and although things are strong enough to confront certain places, what I think what should be taken into consideration is that this is made up of people who are in DT1, Because I have seen that the majority seem to have a lot of knowledge and defend themselves like lawyers, where by the way they defend themselves, some of them are Lawyers, judges, or something like that, because they have a lot of Arguments when they speak and that is what is sought, to have a strong disagreement, but I do not consider that it should be done Outside the forum, I think the best thing is to do it here in the forum where they study the case and where everyone can participate, so the Difficult thing here is that DT1 can be Converted to Join a noble cause like this, where groups are not included by whtas spp, telegram, or any other means of communication.

If something like this can be established here in the forum, we believe that this will Become very interesting, because the majority of people who are in the forum specialize in each thing, some to unmask scammers , others who evaluate the status of the forum and What should behandled well is that in the forum the scam part is not moderated, which makes it somewhat difficult to act with relationships, and I think I understand the Point of this rule because we are judges in judging, but we can have a means of protection, then I think that if it is seen from that point of view it would be something good and that it can be studied in its totality, so every time I use do something how this has to be considered that we as people must know what we are getting into, because the association if it later turns out to be fraudulent or does not meet Expectations , a person who will be risking his reputation to the maximum and that is not a good thing, all crazy, Otherwise ,  I really find it difficult if Something like that happens.

[paxmao]

You have good intentions I hope you will not follow it up with asking for funds from those who are interested, why the need to create, and why you, gamblers choose to be independent I have not heard of a gamblers association online if it is about complaint there are already platforms for that and this includes this forum.

There's also a possibility of deceit because players will come to you with bad intentions to just use your platform to demand or extort casinos, I don't think it's a good idea better just launch a review site it's not complicated and it will save you from the many headaches.

I also think the OP's intention is good. He wants the gamblers not to be disrespected in any way. If there is any such behavior then everyone can prevent it by forming a unity. But it is not possible to implement such initiatives in online casinos. Everyone is different  and it is difficult to organize any action against them. However, if we can solve those issues through the forum without taking action in this way, then the matter will not be able to take a complicated shape. I think that is the best solution if we can get a better resolution of those issues through forum discussion through information and data.

I think it would be much better to create some short of self-regulation body that could actually certify the sites and give a rating for the practices from a neutral perspective. That is how it is done in many other business areas and industries - by having a third party auditing and checking the legal practices, how they manage their clients and the reputation in general.

[Kakmakr]

Well, a Union might not be the correct platform for something like this....

Most Unions ask people to pay membership fees and they pay their salaries with that and do almost nothing for their members. I think you have it spot on to developing social media platforms for people to air their problems with casinos and also to create unbiased review sites to review these casinos.

I hope you can stay biased with your platforms and not use this to take revenge on casinos like Stake.com for what they have done to you. 

[Sunderland]

In theory it might possible and yeah looking good in the paper, but in reality this union wont solve anything at all.

How to verify that all of the members are legit players? Many abusers and butthurt players will use it to threat casinos, and thats it.
Nothing more can be done by this union and casinos definitely will ignore it.

There are better ways to bring the dispute between player and the casino - casinoguru, askgambler, btcgosu and many more.

[CryptSafe]

In theory it might possible and yeah looking good in the paper, but in reality this union wont solve anything at all.

How to verify that all of the members are legit players? Many abusers and butthurt players will use it to threat casinos, and thats it.
Nothing more can be done by this union and casinos definitely will ignore it.

There are better ways to bring the dispute between player and the casino - casinoguru, askgambler, btcgosu and many more.

There is every possibility that they might be frustrated by the casinos because the casinos already are licenced and are business ventures and have policies of age participation and as a matter of fact, you must agree to their terms and conditions before signing up with them so therefore, dragging them anywhere is likely going to be fruitless because you already signed up by accepting the terms of service. I believe some gamblers would want to use this opportunity to drag them but I think they would not be able to do such unless it is a well reputable Union that has long been existing with large number of followers or fan base just like the names you have mentioned already.

[so98nn]

There are actually multiple theories behind this happening. Consider the scenario where a player who has reached the max level in a casino might start expecting overpaid returns because of their ego and then they might try to outrun the system. This is in the hope of getting more money back quickly that they might have lost in the trail of different levels. Then such players would come out crying when they get banned because they tried to cheat the system.

Secondly, there could be players who from the beginning start to cheat the system. This makes it worse for the genuine players also. It's like one bad guy makes the whole group look like jerks. The result? Well system tries to make itself stricter toward the players. Even the slightest doubt can end our accounts in the ban zone. Sometimes it could be human error too.

So what I am saying is, it may not be entirely casinos' fault but it could be others too.

But yeah having such union can help but it needs to roadmapped properly.

[Hispo]

In theory it might possible and yeah looking good in the paper, but in reality this union wont solve anything at all.

How to verify that all of the members are legit players? Many abusers and butthurt players will use it to threat casinos, and thats it.
Nothing more can be done by this union and casinos definitely will ignore it.

There are better ways to bring the dispute between player and the casino - casinoguru, askgambler, btcgosu and many more.

Also, assuming someone would actually try and create an union for gamblers, it would probably mean that those who belong to the union would be asked to give a small fee so the union can fund itself and it's operations, as it happens with traditional unions in the real life, that being said, I am not sure how willing some gamblers would be to give a small fee to the union, specially if that union asked for some fixed percentage of a jackpot or win a gambler could have in a lucky streak.
Sadly, just organization would be abused by people who do not understand how casinos and randomness work, to try to damage the reputation of actually good services, not even mentioning many of the members would be people suffering from problem gambling and hence having problems to comply with the union fee.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Well, in as much as you have good intentions, I would rather but ask, what is it that you really want to create that this forum don't already proffer a solution to? You want to create, maybe a decentralized community on the web that you can refer to as a gambling union, where user than post or complain about any casinos wrong doings,  or the behaviors of a casino towards the player, that makes the player feel disrespected.

The above is really a good thought and idea, but unfortunately, I would personally advice you find some other project with better chances of success and get yourself immensed in that, for the type of community you want to build can actually be formed here on bitcointalk, yes, the forum is centralized, but rest assured that posts are not sensored, as long as users obey the rules, and make their posts in the appropriate board.

[Oilacris]

In theory it might possible and yeah looking good in the paper, but in reality this union wont solve anything at all.

How to verify that all of the members are legit players? Many abusers and butthurt players will use it to threat casinos, and thats it.
Nothing more can be done by this union and casinos definitely will ignore it.

There are better ways to bring the dispute between player and the casino - casinoguru, askgambler, btcgosu and many more.

Also, assuming someone would actually try and create an union for gamblers, it would probably mean that those who belong to the union would be asked to give a small fee so the union can fund itself and it's operations, as it happens with traditional unions in the real life, that being said, I am not sure how willing some gamblers would be to give a small fee to the union, specially if that union asked for some fixed percentage of a jackpot or win a gambler could have in a lucky streak.
Sadly, just organization would be abused by people who do not understand how casinos and randomness work, to try to damage the reputation of actually good services, not even mentioning many of the members would be people suffering from problem gambling and hence having problems to comply with the union fee.

Having some strict compliance about having that union fee or something that would really be compulsory? It is true that making up some movement with this kind of union or possible operations would really be that so hard when it doesnt have funds, therefore, there are no other ways but only this kind of method on which they could be able to accumulate funding then its possible but
same as you said that it would really be neither creating that kind of problem for other gamblers which they would be needing to have that donation and the rest might really be just
simply quit and leave because of such rule. This is why i dont really see for this union to be quite that relevant.Understandable that having some aims and goals that needs to achieve
but not all the time it would be turning out to be justifiable as long there would really be no evidences that would be present out.Also, losses are inevitable and
excuses could really be that easily made out.

[robelneo]

I am planning to make a Website, Socials and a lot more, people who arent getting heard will get heard, the different stories will get heard and hopefully a lot of cases will be solved by presenting this to the brighter audience.

I thank everyone who read this so far, i am really excited to see where this discussion will lead into.

Gambling and gamblers are not like an employer-employee situation where you need to set up a union with implementing rules and framework to operate, all we need is a community like this where we openly discuss the status of certain casinos, and the casino industry in general, the players just need to have a good time many of these players are here just to enjoy and they don't make a living in gambling, that's too much pressure already for having an obligation to a so-called union when all they want is to have fun.
If there are valid reports on one casino there are review sites and mediators willing to mediate and we have communities where they support players who have issues, all I know is you have a hidden agenda like you want a position in a gambling community so you can cast your influence.

[Hispo]

In theory it might possible and yeah looking good in the paper, but in reality this union wont solve anything at all.

How to verify that all of the members are legit players? Many abusers and butthurt players will use it to threat casinos, and thats it.
Nothing more can be done by this union and casinos definitely will ignore it.

There are better ways to bring the dispute between player and the casino - casinoguru, askgambler, btcgosu and many more.

Also, assuming someone would actually try and create an union for gamblers, it would probably mean that those who belong to the union would be asked to give a small fee so the union can fund itself and it's operations, as it happens with traditional unions in the real life, that being said, I am not sure how willing some gamblers would be to give a small fee to the union, specially if that union asked for some fixed percentage of a jackpot or win a gambler could have in a lucky streak.
Sadly, just organization would be abused by people who do not understand how casinos and randomness work, to try to damage the reputation of actually good services, not even mentioning many of the members would be people suffering from problem gambling and hence having problems to comply with the union fee.

Having some strict compliance about having that union fee or something that would really be compulsory? It is true that making up some movement with this kind of union or possible operations would really be that so hard when it doesnt have funds, therefore, there are no other ways but only this kind of method on which they could be able to accumulate funding then its possible but
same as you said that it would really be neither creating that kind of problem for other gamblers which they would be needing to have that donation and the rest might really be just
simply quit and leave because of such rule. This is why i dont really see for this union to be quite that relevant.Understandable that having some aims and goals that needs to achieve
but not all the time it would be turning out to be justifiable as long there would really be no evidences that would be present out.Also, losses are inevitable and
excuses could really be that easily made out.

Correct, even if we assumed that somehow a gambler union managed to stockpile money from gamblers (who are part of the so-called "union") there would not be a realiable way to use those funds properly to improve the experience or even solve cases where gamblers are having actual problems with casino operators. Because, whether we like it or not, there will be always people who will claim a casino is being unfair or is scaming them, without providing good evidence of it, those cases could be used by ill-intentioned people to start rumors against reputable casinos, because unsustained claims.
I am sure you have seen some of those people I am talking about before, imagine what would happen if they were part of a group of gamblers which is actually funded, there would be the beginning of an unfair campaign against a casino, because one of their gamblers lost a lot of money and ended up being a sore loser.

[pinggoki]

I feel like Casinos held each player for replaceable at some point. But Thats not right, thats not in accordance with Responsible Gambling in my opinion. There is so much space, so much can be done individually and from casinos to make it user friendlier. Not beeing scared to ask something to live support, not beeing scared that your account might get closed becaused you just discuss with people, the fact that so many gamblers feel not heard because cs is answering to wrong questions, casinos tend to answer with weeks of delay.

That's how casinos work, they really don't care about their players even if they're high rollers and that's how you should do business, you should never be attached to your customers no matter how long they have played for you and they know that people come and go so they don't experience having to beg for someone to just play for them unless that person is the 0.1% in the high rollers then maybe it's justified that you're going to care for them because that person could be making half of the profit that your casino got, I think that if the players have read the terms and conditions that the casino has given, they wouldn't be so confused, frustrated or mad that the casino has let go of them. I can see where you're coming at when it comes to this but we have to respect that they're running a business, now unless they're treating you unfairly you have no cause to be mad or angry with their decisions, sometimes things happen.

I really believe that Gamblers wich come together and justify on certain aspects have more weight and get heard to a larger audience to make these issues known and visible, without visibility there is no way of change. a Gamblers Union who represents the rights of Gamblers in general would really change a lot of things wich are wrong these days.

A union of players don't sound bad but you need to gather a lot of members and when I mean by a lot, I mean around hundreds of thousands if not millions because a few players is not a loss to this casinos, there's over a million of players worldwide and they can just shrug off the union, if you really need that union to be heard and have a voice, you are better off having that number that I gave you.

[Dunamisx]

You have good intentions I hope you will not follow it up with asking for funds from those who are interested, why the need to create, and why you, gamblers choose to be independent I have not heard of a gamblers association online if it is about complaint there are already platforms for that and this includes this forum.

There's also a possibility of deceit because players will come to you with bad intentions to just use your platform to demand or extort casinos, I don't think it's a good idea better just launch a review site it's not complicated and it will save you from the many headaches.

I also think the OP's intention is good. He wants the gamblers not to be disrespected in any way. If there is any such behavior then everyone can prevent it by forming a unity. But it is not possible to implement such initiatives in online casinos. Everyone is different  and it is difficult to organize any action against them. However, if we can solve those issues through the forum without taking action in this way, then the matter will not be able to take a complicated shape. I think that is the best solution if we can get a better resolution of those issues through forum discussion through information and data.

Each gambler is already independent on his own, then everyone should also be tied as a responsibility to the gambling casino he uses, we cannot take the cross to bear everyone's burdens at the same time, how can a single person form a group or union that bring together all gamblers from any casino or gambling platforms and all in the name of establishing a union, on what motives, agenda or purpose.