Iranus
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November 17, 2023, 03:31:03 AM |
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~snip
I settle down to read every line of your comments and I do say that you are apparently right, however, I have in mind even before now that most government are investing in Bitcoin quietly and don't want others to know. (I can see you are a Nigerian, so let's talk about our government) more especially our Nigerian government, I have come in conclusion that the main reason why they didn't totally ban Bitcoin in our country is because they are also investing in it secretly, if they do ban Bitcoin totally they might find it difficult to invest, despite with the P2P transactions they will find it difficult to invest in Bitcoin, (I don't know how it will be difficult for them, but my instincts tell me so), they are scared to make Bitcoin so dem popular because they thought that Bitcoin will overcome the fiat currency and much people will not save their funds in the fiat banks anymore, just imagine if Bitcoin was legal in Nigeria during the cashless economy period, people wouldn't have suffered because of cash anymore rather they will just make sure that they convert there fiat currency into Bitcoin by clicking the buy button, and start making use of it, although most of the citizens wouldn't have the mind to risk their money, but a lot will do so because at that time, so many people will have no other options than to use Bitcoin. As the world government can't control Bitcoin, it will be hard for the whole world to accept Bitcoin, but I have to say that Bitcoin doesn't need the whole world to accept it before it reaches where it will (hope you get my point?). I agree with your thoughts, and not only governments are quietly investing in bitcoin, but people who talk bad about bitcoin like Warren Buffett or Jim Cramer, always say that bitcoin is trash and it will disappear soon as well is quietly investing in bitcoin. I also recently found interesting news about Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway bought a stock and asked the SEC to let them keep the name of the stock private. Even though everything is still being kept secret, chances are I'm guessing it has something to do with bitcoin and cryptocurrency, otherwise there's no reason they would ask to keep it a secret. We just need to understand one simple thing: the majority of poor people always have the mindset of helping each other overcome difficulties. But for rich people, they never want to share their rich cake with anyone. They don't want others to become rich like them, so never believe what they say but look at what they do. Their goal is to increase wealth so they will be willing to say anything to keep people away from wealth. https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/1724769466821885976
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2Pizza410000BTC
Sr. Member
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Buzz App - Spin wheel, farm rewards
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November 17, 2023, 09:23:30 AM Merited by fillippone (1) |
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Secondly, @OP, even if what you said is possible, those who lack knowledge of Bitcoin, blockchain technology, and other cryptocurrency will definitely learn about the technology and its user case. The use of bitcoin or cryptocurrency is not very sophisticated. Even bank workers studied at the university for some years and archived their degrees; that's also how people will learn about whatever they need to know about blockchain technology. If necessary.
Fuck crypto, I think Bitcoin is what is being referred to here and although we can't deny the fact that there is a possibility of Bitcoin becoming globally accepted of which is just a small percent of you ask me but I believe we can't write out anything in the world of possiblity as I believe no one would have taught that Bitcoin would get this massive adoption and attention prior to the first time it was created. I believe as Bitcoin continues to grow more person or government would have no option than to join the queue on the diversification of its use as the way El Salvador have done although it's still in testing phase but I believe this sends a statement that Bitcoin use and government is actually possible even if they don't accept to the phase of making it a legal tender, learning about it more to properly know the areas which they can benefit won't be a bad idea and this has also started with my nation that first posed a restriction on the use of Bitcoin, now that decision has been reviewed back and plans to start learning more on Blockchain technology has put in place by the government so as they can know the area of which they can all benefit mutually from Bitcoin tech. That's certainly a growing and big step up in terms of Bitcoin and it's relation also with government if you ask me . @Mr. Suevie, Don't get me quite off. I always used to say to myself that despite the fact that the governments of most countries are against Bitcoin and don't want it to be widely adopted by the citizens, that doesn't actually mean that some of those government officials are not investing in Bitcoin secretly. Of course, some of the government appointees, in one way or another, might be into Bitcoin secretly, but they don't want to make any effort to make Bitcoin a legal tender. Bitcoin is a decentralized asset, and it was never created to become centralized. Currently, we know how many centralized exchanges out there and can't be compared to the decentralized exchange, and many new investors in Bitcoin are becoming more familiar with and feeling very secure with most of these centralized exchanges. Normally, you know that all those exchanges were given licenses of operation by the same government. So, don't you think that if the government decides to begin ceasing people's Bitcoin assets, they can possibly force those centralized exchanges to give them KYC details of customers and the amount of Bitcoin they have purchased? If such a situation begins to take place, and the government can begin to watch and monitor every user's Bitcoin wallet and the amount of transaction that is going on in it, then Bitcoin transactions will not really be that secure in the sense that if you make a withdrawal of any amount, the government will quickly know that you (Mr. Suevie) have withdrawn a certain amount from your wallet. If things happen in such a manner, how can you not say that Bitcoin is now becoming like the traditional bank where the bank workers are aware of every bit of transaction you carry out on your account and whom you have sent that money to? Quickly, let's still remind ourselves that Satoshi Nakamoto said he created Bitcoin for the purpose of removing financial control from the hands of financial elites, like banks or any traditional financial system, and placing financial control in the hands of common men and women so that they can carry out their transactions without the involvement of any third party or even without having to reveal their identity to anyone. So, if the government decides and tries to make Bitcoin centralized by creating some Bitcoin system and they (the government) become aware of your wallet, how much Bitcoin you hold, and that of all Bitcoiners, it is not going to really make much sense to me, bro. Well, like you said, I should not speak of something as never going to be impossible, yea, but making Bitcoin a legal tender world wide, then I am thinking that that's what will even make the government properly look at how they can control the space, since they can't access Bitcoin to make it centralized, then they will force the users to obey the rules that they are going to lay out, and it might be a very uncomfortable law that will not allow us to freely enjoy the use of Bitcoin and our investment. If you ask me this question over and over again, my answer would be that, whether the government makes Bitcoin a legal tender or whether it is globally accepted or not, Bitcoin will keep growing and waxing wide, with different user cases. Bitcoin doesn't need to first be approved by the government or accepted worldwide before its adoption will keep increasing. Since its creation, Bitcoin has lived for more than 10 years, yet its adoption keeps growing. Meanwhile, it's not even globally approved by all the governments, so do you think that the government needs to approve it before the adoption will continue? Lastly, in my first comment, I was not talking about any other cryptocurrency, if not Bitcoin. I settle down to read every line of your comments and I do say that you are apparently right, however, I have in mind even before now that most government are investing in Bitcoin quietly and don't want others to know. (I can see you are a Nigerian, so let's talk about our government) more especially our Nigerian government, I have come in conclusion that the main reason why they didn't totally ban Bitcoin in our country is because they are also investing in it secretly, if they do ban Bitcoin totally they might find it difficult to invest, despite with the P2P transactions they will find it difficult to invest in Bitcoin, (I don't know how it will be difficult for them, but my instincts tell me so), they are scared to make Bitcoin so dem popular because they thought that Bitcoin will overcome the fiat currency and much people will not save their funds in the fiat banks anymore, just imagine if Bitcoin was legal in Nigeria during the cashless economy period, people wouldn't have suffered because of cash anymore rather they will just make sure that they convert there fiat currency into Bitcoin by clicking the buy button, and start making use of it, although most of the citizens wouldn't have the mind to risk their money, but a lot will do so because at that time, so many people will have no other options than to use Bitcoin. As the world government can't control Bitcoin, it will be hard for the whole world to accept Bitcoin, but I have to say that Bitcoin doesn't need the whole world to accept it before it reaches where it will (hope you get my point?). Of course I agree with your point of view. Bitcoin is not regulated by governments around the world which is why governments around the world cannot control it. If this Bitcoin was controlled by a government then surely Bitcoin would run in a regulated manner. I am a Bangladeshi Bitcoin is still banned in my country. There are several reasons why Bitcoin is banned in my country, one of the reasons being that most people in my country don't know about Bitcoin. Also my country is not very developed as an underdeveloped country it is better not to legalize Bitcoin in this country. However, two MP(Member of Parliament) in my country's parliament spoke about the legitimacy of Bitcoin, but now no MPs speak about the legitimacy of Bitcoin. However, even though Bitcoin is not legal in this country, various government employees and thousands of young people who work in Bitcoin are using Bitcoin freely. As Bitcoin is not legal in my country, there is no problem administratively, but sometimes due to money laundering, some young people are brought under administrative control. Moreover, even though Bitcoin is not legal in my country, we are using it safely.
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Nrcewker
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November 17, 2023, 09:32:09 AM |
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It’s not at all possible for Bitcoins to completely take over the fiat. The reason is very simple. Bitcoins are limited in numbers. Hence majority of the people consider it as a digital asset rather than any currency. Moreover due to the decentralised nature of the coin, it cannot be controlled, hence government will impose the traditional banking methods only. Moreover we are also in very early stage to think something like this. Let’s practically see things and let’s progress slowly.
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SmartGold01
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November 17, 2023, 11:28:05 AM |
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OP's question is like the crypto will become world currency in a blip and everyone who don't know about crypto and is not very educated will lost their job and become unemployed.
When you say crypto, what is crypto anyhow? Does that expression mean much of anything unless you place it into some kind of a bitcoin context?, and if you are talking about bitcoin then why not say bitcoin at some point rather than using vague and imprecise language regarding how some kind of a supposed crypto has any kind of meaning without somehow figuring out how you consider the role of bitcoin to be within whatever it is that you might be saying... I do understand that most people do not know where to classify bitcoin or let me say the difference between bitcoin and cryptocurrencies which always results in given the place of bitcoin to cryptocurrency, and yes I won't apportion any blame to those people who are interchanging the words or misinterpreting the knowledge of bitcoin to cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrency most at times are all classified together including those shitcoin which are more volatile and riskier in terms of investment which might not know their future plan or a pre-proposed plan that would leads to the utility of such projects/tokens or even generalizing overall plans, that was why many cryptocurrencies today that was introduced 2 year to 8 years ago are no place to be founds till date excepts for few that managed to survived those hard and dying times, at then I usually get most of the updates on twitter which is X and some of them on the local TV news... ... But in bitcoin words we can say the volatility doesn't still breaks down the purpose and the mission of bitcoin to reason it was created till date, people often term bitcoin to Cryptocurrency because that is their overall knowledge and exposure to how they knows and get information concerning bitcoin that is why we must go for knowledge to know what are venturing into.
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Blitzboy
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November 17, 2023, 11:36:34 AM |
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`
Of course I agree with your point of view. Bitcoin is not regulated by governments around the world which is why governments around the world cannot control it. If this Bitcoin was controlled by a government then surely Bitcoin would run in a regulated manner. I am a Bangladeshi Bitcoin is still banned in my country. There are several reasons why Bitcoin is banned in my country, one of the reasons being that most people in my country don't know about Bitcoin. Also my country is not very developed as an underdeveloped country it is better not to legalize Bitcoin in this country. However, two MP(Member of Parliament) in my country's parliament spoke about the legitimacy of Bitcoin, but now no MPs speak about the legitimacy of Bitcoin. However, even though Bitcoin is not legal in this country, various government employees and thousands of young people who work in Bitcoin are using Bitcoin freely. As Bitcoin is not legal in my country, there is no problem administratively, but sometimes due to money laundering, some young people are brought under administrative control. Moreover, even though Bitcoin is not legal in my country, we are using it safely. I agree with your point of view on Bitcoin's regulation, or lack thereof, by governments. This brings up an important point about cryptocurrencies: they are not connected to standard financial systems. For countries like Bangladesh, this freedom is especially hard to handle, even though it sounds desirable. Its interesting that people are still using Bitcoin even though its been banned. Wonderful human I can relate to what you said about people in less developed places. Education could make a big difference. Imagine that it were easier for people in Bangladesh to find information about cryptocurrencies. Informed decision-making could be improved by giving people more power. Money laundering and other problems with administration are real risks, but they also create chances for new rules to be made. Could Bangladesh create a new set of rules that recognizes Bitcoin's promise while also keeping it from being abused? Its possible that this method could lead to a more balanced and open-minded mindset about cryptocurrencies.
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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November 17, 2023, 05:17:48 PM |
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OP's question is like the crypto will become world currency in a blip and everyone who don't know about crypto and is not very educated will lost their job and become unemployed.
When you say crypto, what is crypto anyhow? Does that expression mean much of anything unless you place it into some kind of a bitcoin context?, and if you are talking about bitcoin then why not say bitcoin at some point rather than using vague and imprecise language regarding how some kind of a supposed crypto has any kind of meaning without somehow figuring out how you consider the role of bitcoin to be within whatever it is that you might be saying... I do understand that most people do not know where to classify bitcoin or let me say the difference between bitcoin and cryptocurrencies which always results in given the place of bitcoin to cryptocurrency, and yes I won't apportion any blame to those people who are interchanging the words or misinterpreting the knowledge of bitcoin to cryptocurrency. It is not up to you to clarify what someone else might have meant when they are using vague and meaningless language, but surely you can accept that people speak (write) with sloppiness if you like to live in a world in which people are either not clarifying what they mean or purposefully speaking in vaguenesses in order to mislead others. Sure, sometimes whatever that person said may well have been sufficiently clear and/or unimportant, and sure sometimes their use of vague, meaningless and misleading language is due to inadvertance rather than purposefulness, but still it does not mean that any of us should accept such vagueness, even if you personally choose such course of action and/or choose to defend that others use such sloppiness in their speaking/writing. Cryptocurrency most at times are all classified together including those shitcoin which are more volatile and riskier in terms of investment which might not know their future plan or a pre-proposed plan that would leads to the utility of such projects/tokens or even generalizing overall plans, that was why many cryptocurrencies today that was introduced 2 year to 8 years ago are no place to be founds till date excepts for few that managed to survived those hard and dying times, at then I usually get most of the updates on twitter which is X and some of them on the local TV news...
Of course, there are a lot fewer damages when you clarify your terms and clarify what you mean when you use your crypto currency term or whatever term that you choose to use and however you choose to define it.. so part of the problem is resolved when you at least clarify what you mean by the term, even if others might not agree with your definition, they at least have some better ideas about what it is that you are trying to say. ... But in bitcoin words we can say the volatility doesn't still breaks down the purpose and the mission of bitcoin to reason it was created till date, people often term bitcoin to Cryptocurrency because that is their overall knowledge and exposure to how they knows and get information concerning bitcoin that is why we must go for knowledge to know what are venturing into.
Fair enough.. The nature of bitcoin is not affected regarding what it is called, but it is still nice to know what people mean, so if they throw out a term like "crypto" or "cryptocurrency" and they are talking about bitcoin, then why not just clarify bitcoin is what they are talking about, so if they use the term crypto, then we might not know if they are talking about bitcoin or something else... if they use the term crypto because they are talking about something.. maybe even including bitcoin in what they are talking about, it still seems better many of the times to say what it is that they are talking about rather than leaving it vague.. and sure sometimes there can be purposefulness in terms of leaving thing vague.. and in some contexts it might not make a difference.. but then if we are talking about public threads, then we have a whole bunch of potential people who might be reading such communications.. and not every one has time to be trying to get clarification, but I find it is a decently good thing to either attempt to clarify or at least to point out that what the person had posted has ambiguities and potential misleadingness contained therein.
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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AnonBitCoiner
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November 17, 2023, 05:34:25 PM |
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3: Many developing or underdeveloped countries (especially those with low leverage) will consider cryptocurrency a curse rather than a blessing due to their lack of proper understanding of its importance.
Cryptocurrency is now getting acceptable and those who don't know yet will surely go towards learning about its characteristic because it is a reality that whenever new things come into use then people first start investigating about it then use their money for investment. Those were the people of past were innocent who don't understand well but put money into anything but now age is modern and also people are modified according to era so they will not think bitcoin as a curse but they will realize its benefits. Like you have seen that instead of having strict regulations in some country people are still buying more and more bitcoin because they know that a day will come when their country will accept bitcoin so I think that it is will of everyone to be educated about bitcoin as they already know that importance of bitcoin.
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Churchillvv
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The Banking system have failed the people in so many ways, it is about time that there are some payback for them. In the previous economic crisis, Banks were bailed out by tax payers money and we just had to take it up the a$$.
A lot of industries have been disrupted by newer technologies and they just had to adapt or die... so the Banks just have to do the same. Let's forget about them, like they forgot about us.. when they harmed us.
The intention of Satoshi in creating bitcoin is not to take avenge or revenge on what you believe banks did to us (those you have lost to the banking system) rather it was for the simple purpose of financial freedom and free from central control by governments. I don't think banks will be destroyed but it will have to adapt to the new technology and keep it activities if banks are going to be wiped out all over the world it will take years, this year's might be up to a centenary or more or less. Though the disadvantages of banks over shadow the advantages but that should don't make anyone to forget the value it aided to human life.
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cafter
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
November 17, 2023, 06:19:46 PM |
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snip
That was a mistake by me and after knowing about it I corrected my saying hereIt was my typing mistake I was talking about bitcoin you can check further sentence, there I talked about "bitcoin, not "crypto". OP's question is like the bitcoin will become world currency in a blip and everyone who don't know about crypto and is not very educated will lost their job and become unemployed. But it's not very easy to replace fiat or banks with crypto, if in future the world or government will make bitcoin legal tender than centralized banks and crypto will work simultaneously. banks will not going to shutdown anytime in the future.
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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The Banking system have failed the people in so many ways, it is about time that there are some payback for them. In the previous economic crisis, Banks were bailed out by tax payers money and we just had to take it up the a$$.
A lot of industries have been disrupted by newer technologies and they just had to adapt or die... so the Banks just have to do the same. Let's forget about them, like they forgot about us.. when they harmed us.
The intention of Satoshi in creating bitcoin is not to take avenge or revenge on what you believe banks did to us (those you have lost to the banking system) rather it was for the simple purpose of financial freedom and free from central control by governments. I don't think banks will be destroyed but it will have to adapt to the new technology and keep it activities if banks are going to be wiped out all over the world it will take years, this year's might be up to a centenary or more or less. Though the disadvantages of banks over shadow the advantages but that should don't make anyone to forget the value it aided to human life. Of course, banks have a lot of valuable aspects, which includes services to help people who might not be able to perform some of those on their own, and also systemic advantages too., and so you make a lot of good points in that bitcoin likely will inspire banks to become better versions of themselves, and sure maybe some of them will fall out of business, or maybe some will have to transform a lot, but I doubt that the services and/or advantages that they provide would completely disappear for a very long time, and people will be seeking various kinds of "trusted third-parties" for help with their finances, and sometimes the "trusted third-parties" will not be as necessary and/or helpful as people believe, and some times some of us who believe that we don't need trusted third parties, we will likely realize that we won't completely be able to "get rid of them" either... or maybe we start to play into the idea of Fediments replacing banks. or variations of developments in which banks become smaller circles and familiar rather than anonymous, depersonalized and sometimes seemingly completely detached... sometimes todays banks seem like parasites and even engaging in deception, so surely there may be some kinds of banks and banking systems that become more bitcoin (and even Crypto - and/or shitcoins.. I am still not sure if there might actually exist a crypto that is not a shitcoin) friendly... Maybe part of the reason that credit unions started to exist in the 70s and 80s and thereafter was to attempt to bring some community back into banking, but even quite a few of the credit unions have gotten corrupted over the years by traditional banking systems and some of the rules that they have to follow or maybe even some of their incentives that are pushed on them to pursue debt and not to have reserves are too contagious but realize that those kinds of debt laden (and gambling) systems are not solvent (nor responsible to the communities in which they should be serving). Responsiveness may well come when people are able to easily speak with their feet, so if their bank is not serving them, they can move their value to a bank (or a bank-like institution) that actually will serve them and will actually have reserves and will actually allow the person to withdraw their value (and/or their bitcoin) if they are not satisfied with the banking services that they are receiving for whatever it might be costing them to keep their value there.
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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Churchillvv
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
November 20, 2023, 03:13:19 AM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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~snip~
The intention of Satoshi in creating bitcoin is not to take avenge or revenge on what you believe banks did to us (those you have lost to the banking system) rather it was for the simple purpose of financial freedom and free from central control by governments. I don't think banks will be destroyed but it will have to adapt to the new technology and keep it activities if banks are going to be wiped out all over the world it will take years, this year's might be up to a centenary or more or less. Though the disadvantages of banks over shadow the advantages but that should don't make anyone to forget the value it aided to human life. Of course, banks have a lot of valuable aspects, which includes services to help people who might not be able to perform some of those on their own, and also systemic advantages too., and so you make a lot of good points in that bitcoin likely will inspire banks to become better versions of themselves, and sure maybe some of them will fall out of business, or maybe some will have to transform a lot, but I doubt that the services and/or advantages that they provide would completely disappear for a very long time, and people will be seeking various kinds of "trusted third-parties" for help with their finances, and sometimes the "trusted third-parties" will not be as necessary and/or helpful as people believe, and some times some of us who believe that we don't need trusted third parties, we will likely realize that we won't completely be able to "get rid of them" either... or maybe we start to play into the idea of Fediments replacing banks. or variations of developments in which banks become smaller circles and familiar rather than anonymous, depersonalized and sometimes seemingly completely detached... sometimes todays banks seem like parasites and even engaging in deception, so surely there may be some kinds of banks and banking systems that become more bitcoin (and even Crypto - and/or shitcoins.. I am still not sure if there might actually exist a crypto that is not a shitcoin) friendly... Maybe part of the reason that credit unions started to exist in the 70s and 80s and thereafter was to attempt to bring some community back into banking, but even quite a few of the credit unions have gotten corrupted over the years by traditional banking systems and some of the rules that they have to follow or maybe even some of their incentives that are pushed on them to pursue debt and not to have reserves are too contagious but realize that those kinds of debt laden (and gambling) systems are not solvent (nor responsible to the communities in which they should be serving). Responsiveness may well come when people are able to easily speak with their feet, so if their bank is not serving them, they can move their value to a bank (or a bank-like institution) that actually will serve them and will actually have reserves and will actually allow the person to withdraw their value (and/or their bitcoin) if they are not satisfied with the banking services that they are receiving for whatever it might be costing them to keep their value there. Everything has a purpose the more people realize this the better. Most people who are hurt by the banking system and others who are involved the crypto world (especially here in the forum) has now over evaluated the presence of Bitcoin and/or shitcoins that they do not need this third parties, most for a selfish reason of not paying there dues for storing their money or should I say assets since it's not only money that is stored in the banks others especially the ones exposed to decentralization and/or involved in Bitcointalk (Bitcoin and shitcoins) are not even in reality not interested in third parties but just to build up the hype here in the forum as lovers of Bitcoin to get credits while in reality they patronize third parties more. They don't realize the fact that some third-party will be needed one way or the other although it may not be banks but some kind of bank related services will be very much needed weather of the individual or institution. If there will be some kind of bank that adopts Bitcoin I wonder how they will operate but the operation mode shouldn't be what thinking about cuz for everything has time accorded to it. when the time comes for firms that will operate with Bitcoin and or crypto in general there will surely be a way figured out. when credit unions where created it some maybe started contradicting the aims of governments so inorder to still bring back their strong hold the corrupt banking system rules are being pushed to them to bring the power of control in. at these point most of the credit unions that are not strong enough to resist will have to partake inorder to remain valid. Most times when ordinary citizens are cut up in this corrupt banking system they rather not speak because of the social status believing no matter how hard they try they voices can't be heard. Even when their banks aren't serving them they tend to remain shut than waste their time lamenting. when banks adapt to the paradigm then people will have option to either move their assets when their banks are not serving them as needed. It is practically impossible to sweep away the fiat, the only thing is that it will depreciate in usage. As far fiat is concerned, it is still main means of transaction. Talking about global domination of bitcoins is a nightmare that may not happen in this generation even if there are news of it everywhere. Don't forget that as some people believe on bitcoin, others don't want to here about it. A lot of person are stereotype while others study the positive and negative effect of it to reach their own decision. To be more realistic, how do you pay for product less than a dollar everytime you want to buy such things , especially children. Bitcoins dominance in today's world will not be base on usage as means of payment but mostly as means of investment and store of wealth and value when it is no longer as volatile as it is now.
Since we don't know about the future we only speculate so for the current time being or in the nearest future (decades and/or more) co-existence might still be the situation but when a complete revolution may occur the faith of fiat might be less base on personal overview of the future. With what I have seen in the growth of tech money for children and the rest of it will not be a problem, from my observation comparing the past and the present then the present and the future it will surely be a different thing all the way in the future. If you want to truly see from my point of view watch some revolutionary movies and see how the future might look like and then search for movies from the late 80s and 90s that talks about this current stage we are now and you will be amazed to see that most of the revolutions are now happening or has happened already. In a not shell Bitcoin dominance is still a speculate and/or prediction no one know the future. ~Snip~
You know what CONVENIENCE is? Having to go to a mall or a superstore and after getting what you need, you take out your phone scan a QR Code and just like Zap, your transaction is successful. What could be more convenient than that. The normal banking system has a lot of glitches that can really cause you lots of inconvenience either as an educated or an uneducated person, but globally legalizing Bitcoin would for sure fix those glitches. Due to the centralized nature of our regular banking system, trust that the government and the financial agencies will always enforce laws and easily manipulate the banking system to suit Their interest and always fall in their favor, but the presence of Bitcoin would for sure solve those glitches due to its decentralized nature. Why do you think the government and so called law makers are strictly against Bitcoin and are fighting tirelessly to give Bitcoin a bad image just so Bitcoin wouldn't be legalized. I apparently observed that what he or she was talking about is situated now (current/present day) and not the future while you capitalized in future so the misunderstanding is from future and now. currently some people can't use the ATM machines and that's not because they're not educated or illiterate but because most where not brought up from tech exposed society or villages so it still hard for the to comprehend the paradigm. but for tech and/or civilized societies using this techs might be convenient enough cuz but kids are literally in used o modern tools. ~Snip~ There's no doubt that the Nigerian government are secretly investing in Bitcoin and uses Bitcoin as a means of moving money secretly, how then do you think the so called politicians move all the millions they loot. All the so called shitty crusade of making Bitcoin illegal are just mere formality, take for instance In June 2021 when Twitter was banned in Nigeria, some government officials were still reportedly seen making appearances on Twitter. LoL, the same lawmakers are the same people who break the laws. in their dark circle, they all know the importance of Bitcoin, don't be surprised if they're the same persons who abuse the use of Bitcoin. Nigeria is of one the top countries in Africa that has the highest number of users of Bitcoin technology or Blockchain tech, the governments of nigeria may or may not be investing in Bitcoin your thoughts are mere assumption. your assumption that Nigeria politicians use Bitcoin to move the money laundered has to evidence or solid fact but although we all know how corrupt the Nigeria government is but doesn't warrant your conclusion that Bitcoin is their source of moving money laundered.
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OgNasty
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November 20, 2023, 03:27:12 AM |
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The worst thing that can happen to people who discover Bitcoin but lack knowledge is to get fooled into investing in shitcoins, thus missing out on their chance at financial freedom and being early to this new paradigm when Bitcoin continues to provide the world real value.
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..Stake.com.. | | | ▄████████████████████████████████████▄ ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██ ▄████▄ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██████████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ██████ ██ ██████████ ██ ██ ██████████ ██ ▀██▀ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ █████ ███ ██████ ██ ████▄ ██ ██ █████ ███ ████ ████ █████ ███ ████████ ██ ████ ████ ██████████ ████ ████ ████▀ ██ ██████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████ ██ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███ ██ ██ ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████████████████████████████████████ | | | | | | ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄ █ ▄▀▄ █▀▀█▀▄▄ █ █▀█ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▄██▄ █ ▌ █ █ ▄██████▄ █ ▌ ▐▌ █ ██████████ █ ▐ █ █ ▐██████████▌ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▀▀██████▀▀ █ ▌ █ █ ▄▄▄██▄▄▄ █ ▌▐▌ █ █▐ █ █ █▐▐▌ █ █▐█ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█ | | | | | | ▄▄█████████▄▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄█▀ ▐█▌ ▀█▄ ██ ▐█▌ ██ ████▄ ▄█████▄ ▄████ ████████▄███████████▄████████ ███▀ █████████████ ▀███ ██ ███████████ ██ ▀█▄ █████████ ▄█▀ ▀█▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄▄▄█▀ ▀███████ ███████▀ ▀█████▄ ▄█████▀ ▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀ | | | ..PLAY NOW.. |
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DaNNy001
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
November 20, 2023, 07:22:15 AM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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The Banking system have failed the people in so many ways, it is about time that there are some payback for them. In the previous economic crisis, Banks were bailed out by tax payers money and we just had to take it up the a$$.
A lot of industries have been disrupted by newer technologies and they just had to adapt or die... so the Banks just have to do the same. Let's forget about them, like they forgot about us.. when they harmed us.
The intention of Satoshi in creating bitcoin is not to take avenge or revenge on what you believe banks did to us (those you have lost to the banking system) rather it was for the simple purpose of financial freedom and free from central control by governments. I don't think banks will be destroyed but it will have to adapt to the new technology and keep it activities if banks are going to be wiped out all over the world it will take years, this year's might be up to a centenary or more or less. Though the disadvantages of banks over shadow the advantages but that should don't make anyone to forget the value it aided to human life. I think majority know this that it was due and bound to happen and we all have Satoshi to thank for the brilliant idea. Bitcoin in it's original core like you said was meant to aid the whole system of central control of the public funds and help evaluate the idea of financial purpose and indeed it has and like every good project more idea and use always comes with it and this has also been the case of Bitcoin itself as the use of Bitcoin has been greatly diverse into an investment purpose and this has made Bitcoin superb in it's adoption. Bitcoin is an evolution in working progress and it will take some time to actually overtake the whole Rocker fellers central bank system but even if it doesn't really meet that goal, it's still very beneficial and one thing about evolution, it's doesn't really happen overnight.
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Churchillvv
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
November 25, 2023, 11:16:53 PM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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The worst thing that can happen to people who discover Bitcoin but lack knowledge is to get fooled into investing in shitcoins, thus missing out on their chance at financial freedom and being early to this new paradigm when Bitcoin continues to provide the world real value.
Exactly getting involved with shitcoins is the biggest mistake anyone can make in venturing into the crypto spaces, hence seeing themselves as early investors that will reap the fruit of a shitcoin. While the real deal keeps appreciating and performing it's expected task and more which is offering financial freedom. People who get involved with this shitcoins usually see themselves as to be in the position of hitting up a jackpot when this shitcoins raises believing that it was the same way Bitcoin started before it got to such a price and now they too have a chance of become rich with this shitcoins that are not in anyway to be compared to Bitcoin. Knowledge as said by the wise men is the biggest weapon a man can get because it will provide you with a ground of success, just for have a good knowledge of what your getting involved with you will not fall for traps that glitters as gold. I feel pity for anyone that has the believe of shitcoins and comparing to a paradigm itself. It’s not at all possible for Bitcoins to completely take over the fiat. The reason is very simple. Bitcoins are limited in numbers. Hence majority of the people consider it as a digital asset rather than any currency. Moreover due to the decentralised nature of the coin, it cannot be controlled, hence government will impose the traditional banking methods only. Moreover we are also in very early stage to think something like this. Let’s practically see things and let’s progress slowly.
It may not be possible for Bitcoin to completely take over the fiat for now but might be possible in future, if Bitcoin as a paradigm could be possibly launched with such revolution that it has brought then it might be possible to be the one of the currencies in future but the fact is Bitcoin originally wasn't created to take over fiat or to be in competition with fiat but rather to provide financial freedom and free people from governmental central control or manipulation. though some people might just consider Bitcoin a digital asset but Bitcoin is not just a digital asset, it could be a digital asset to anyone who feels it that way because of its limited number but there are lot of features it holds if properly examine that makes it not just a digital asset but a paradigm shift. bitcoin is uncontrollable by any government and it's doesn't make it certain since it can't be controlled government will have to introduce traditional banking system rather the existing traditional banks will have to adopt Bitcoin and/or cryptocurrencies including shitcoins. in the case where they can't afford to adopt then such banks may die of or run out of business as earlier said by JayJuanGee.
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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November 26, 2023, 03:08:01 PM |
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The worst thing that can happen to people who discover Bitcoin but lack knowledge is to get fooled into investing in shitcoins, thus missing out on their chance at financial freedom and being early to this new paradigm when Bitcoin continues to provide the world real value.
Exactly getting involved with shitcoins is the biggest mistake anyone can make in venturing into the crypto spaces, hence seeing themselves as early investors that will reap the fruit of a shitcoin. While the real deal keeps appreciating and performing it's expected task and more which is offering financial freedom. People who get involved with this shitcoins usually see themselves as to be in the position of hitting up a jackpot when this shitcoins raises believing that it was the same way Bitcoin started before it got to such a price and now they too have a chance of become rich with this shitcoins that are not in anyway to be compared to Bitcoin. Knowledge as said by the wise men is the biggest weapon a man can get because it will provide you with a ground of success, just for have a good knowledge of what your getting involved with you will not fall for traps that glitters as gold. I feel pity for anyone that has the believe of shitcoins and comparing to a paradigm itself. It’s not at all possible for Bitcoins to completely take over the fiat. The reason is very simple. Bitcoins are limited in numbers. Hence majority of the people consider it as a digital asset rather than any currency. Moreover due to the decentralised nature of the coin, it cannot be controlled, hence government will impose the traditional banking methods only. Moreover we are also in very early stage to think something like this. Let’s practically see things and let’s progress slowly.
It may not be possible for Bitcoin to completely take over the fiat for now but might be possible in future, if Bitcoin as a paradigm could be possibly launched with such revolution that it has brought then it might be possible to be the one of the currencies in future but the fact is Bitcoin originally wasn't created to take over fiat or to be in competition with fiat but rather to provide financial freedom and free people from governmental central control or manipulation. though some people might just consider Bitcoin a digital asset but Bitcoin is not just a digital asset, it could be a digital asset to anyone who feels it that way because of its limited number but there are lot of features it holds if properly examine that makes it not just a digital asset but a paradigm shift. bitcoin is uncontrollable by any government and it's doesn't make it certain since it can't be controlled government will have to introduce traditional banking system rather the existing traditional banks will have to adopt Bitcoin and/or cryptocurrencies including shitcoins. in the case where they can't afford to adopt then such banks may die of or run out of business as earlier said by JayJuanGee. In reference to bitcoin as a paradigm shifting technology, you (Churchillvv) are not wrong about anything that you seem to be saying, but it might be helpful to try to flesh out what you are saying a bit better, but surely you are on the right track.. and maybe talking about paradigm shifting cannot completely capture all of the special things about bitcoin, but it surely puts bitcoin in a category that is quite difficult to proclaim any of the shitcoins are fitting into a similar kind of category. So for example ethereum and some of the other supposedly high market cap coins like to compare themselves to bitcoin as if they were similar to bitcoin (but different in some interesting ways.. blah blah blah) or they are better in better than bitcoin because of x, y or z reasons, and even though an overwhelming majority of them are distracting scams because they are frequently trying to print money and enrich the founders rather than really serving any meaningful purpose, and perhaps some of them do find some interesting and potentially meaningful purposes, such as Ethereum and some ofthe ethereum imitators abilities to empower people in the somewhat more user-friendly ways of writing, developing and promoting software that is largely just meant to enrich the founders rather than either providing some kind of service or being genuine in their claims of what they are going to do in the future. These various shitcoins and projects can still out-perform bitcoin for various short periods of time, and could even have very extended periods of outperforming bitcoin and maybe some of what they might be doing would be to attempt to support status quo systems and to undermine bitcoin, while stating that they are doing other supposedly good-for-society types lf things, but they may well be just being used to attack the robustness of bitcoin. So, a paradigm-shifting technology, such as bitcoin, ended up radically transforming the ways in which we can both communicate information, and to be able to attach monetary value upon such information (whether it is transmitted or just held in storage), and even though several POW coins were attempting to replicate various aspects of bitcoin, they still would need to attract mining power to go over to them, so earlier in bitcoin's growth, it was likely more vulnerable to potential diversions of mining power and resources over to some other POW coin, and at the same time, bitcoin is not completely immuned to such attacks to split the network and to confuse incentives in regards to which is the "real bitcoin," or which of the forks will end up winning the sound money proposition - if there is a kind of assumption that it is difficult to maintain two, unless they might be very close to equal... which did not seem to be the case in the block-size wars of 2017 and even a variety of potentially competing forks that so far all ended up failing pretty spectacularly, even though it took a few years for a couple of the greater competitors of Bcash (BCH) and Bcash SV (BSV) to really show themselves as almost completely worthless, even though they still exist as kind of zombie coins that hope to someday recover like a phoenix from the ashes, and they are currently sold/marketed to the public as potential insurance against BTC's failure and sometimes get funding based on their ongoing claims of being "the real bitcoin." So, sure there can be several ways of potentially dividing ideas and perceptions of what bitcoin is and where its value lies, that may cause some folks to hedge or even to pursue shitcoins that are proof of stake or even forks of BTC (which could also happen again in the future). In essence the various shitcoins have not shifted any paradigm in any way that is even close to as meaningful that bitcoin has brought to the world, and likely for any kind of new technology to displace any incumbent, it has to be around 10x or more better than any of its competitors, and bitcoin has a lot of use cases that currently show that it is likely more than 10x better than many existing technologies, whether we are referring to how value is transmitted (internationally or even locally), storage of value like gold, fiat money that robs from the people based on it not really being pegged to anything in any strict way, except for some of the whims that politicians or financial folks or status quo rich folks want to either preserve themselves in the system or to prevent great corrections that are healthy for the system, but then if the corruption of continuing to print the money exists, it gets more and more difficult to allow a real and meaningful correction to play out. There are several other ways that bitcoin provides great empowerment to the system - and even a kind of parrallel system, and even though bitcoin is paradigm-shifting, it is not guaranteed to succeed, so in those kinds of regards it is likely better to stay invested in both systems, and surely if you really feel that you understand bitcoin, you might overly invest into the bitcoin system, but you don't necessarily want to overly invest into bitcoin in such a hard way that you are not able to survive if some things happen in which bitcoin has heavily, intensive and long correction periods and if you have not prepared yourself for a variety of situations, and a lot of the preparations are likely related to both you position size and making sure to have a decent amount of your bitcoin value in private locations that are completely in your control and/or shared custody with people who you trust not to screw you over.. ..and you do not have to have all your private coins in one location, because even if you have given information to family members about how to get at your coins, you might choose to make some of those systems unable to breach absent your death and/or incapacitation.. which surely those kinds of protections are frequently easier said than done... but bitcoin systems are still building and evolving and likely any of us who are building our bitcoin stashes, we need to ongoingly spending some time to watch developments and make sure that our systems of private storage are sufficiently robust, and maybe even 10x to 100x more robust than seemingly necessary since sometimes the BTC price might shoot up by a lot all at once, and maybe someone who might have had 21 BTC on his/her phone (or some other hotwallet) in 2015 (which would have had a value of $5,250 - based on a then price per coin of $250),. but then by the end of 2017, those same 21 Bitcoins would have been worth close to $413k - based on a then price per coin of $19,666). And sure, that was a large and fast increase in value that could have had caused some of the HODLers holding their coins in places less secure than they should have had been, and also some of the coins might have also been held with 3rd parties which is not safe to have all your coins in such third party custody, even though you might decide to keep up to 30% or 40% of your coins with 3rd party custody.. and so each person has to decide those 3rd party custody matters, including how many people either got robbed of their coins or their coins were frozen for long periods of time, whether we are referring to MTGOX in 2014, or the various failures of several third parties in 2022 and perhaps continuing... including but not limited to Terra/Luna, Celsius, Voyager, BlockFi, 3AC, FTX, Gemini earn, Genesis, and Grayscale (BGTC).
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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umbara ardian
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November 26, 2023, 03:16:59 PM |
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The popularity of cryptocurrencies is growing rapidly and it is likely that it will replace banks in the future.
I don't think this will happen immediately. It will take some time for people to accept cryptocurrency as an official payment method.
As cryptocurrency adoption increases, banks will need to adapt. They can do this by offering crypto-based services, such as crypto wallets and crypto payments.
If banks do not adapt, they could be devastated and become obsolete. However, I think this will be a gradual process.
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southerngentuk
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November 26, 2023, 03:58:55 PM |
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The banking system has disappointed people in many ways. In the last economic crisis, the banks were bailed out with taxpayer money, and we were left with that money. This is unfair, and it shows that banks do not value people. We gave them a chance, but they abused our trust. It's time to let them take care of themselves. We will not forget what they did, and we will not give them a second chance.
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Tigerheart3026
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November 26, 2023, 04:25:37 PM |
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bitcoin will never overtake bank, because now it is hard to predict that bitcoin will be adopt all of the country in future, banking system is very strong, economically a country is managed through banks without it a state is immobilized, so still people's have to trust their traditional bank, but i am not saying that bank is completely secured,
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super bako
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November 26, 2023, 04:38:24 PM |
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3: Many developing or underdeveloped countries (especially those with low leverage) will consider cryptocurrency a curse rather than a blessing due to their lack of proper understanding of its importance.
Cryptocurrency is now getting acceptable and those who don't know yet will surely go towards learning about its characteristic because it is a reality that whenever new things come into use then people first start investigating about it then use their money for investment. Those were the people of past were innocent who don't understand well but put money into anything but now age is modern and also people are modified according to era so they will not think bitcoin as a curse but they will realize its benefits. Like you have seen that instead of having strict regulations in some country people are still buying more and more bitcoin because they know that a day will come when their country will accept bitcoin so I think that it is will of everyone to be educated about bitcoin as they already know that importance of bitcoin. Sometimes wanting to introduce bitcoin, systems, concepts to lay people is still difficult and they almost don't believe the concept after it is explained. I told my friends the same age as my parents, that they believed from the start that they only knew fiat money. only young people believe because the version of the modern world has changed. Until now, young people in my area can get to know bitcoin and crypto
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JayJuanGee
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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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November 27, 2023, 12:28:39 AM |
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The banking system has disappointed people in many ways. In the last economic crisis, the banks were bailed out with taxpayer money, and we were left with that money. This is unfair, and it shows that banks do not value people. We gave them a chance, but they abused our trust. It's time to let them take care of themselves. We will not forget what they did, and we will not give them a second chance.
This does not make a whole hell of a lot of sense. The system is fairly complex, and it is likely that a lot of people are going to have to figure out various ways transition into bitcoin, and surely there is ONLY about 1% or so of the world's population that has any meaningful level of bitcoin, so are you considering just to completely drop bitcoin and go 100% bitcoin.. That's ridiculous, even though I don't disagree with ideas of protecting ourselves, safeguarding ourselves, and comparing various options including sometimes if we are paid in dollars we spend the dollars first, but that does not necessarily tell us very much how to approach specifics, yet an overwhelming number of normies are not going to be in a position to transition in to bitcoin either 100% or even high concentrations of net worth in bitcoin. First things first is getting off zero, and then building a bitcoin position, and it could take years, years and years before someone has built a large enough BTC stash that s./he has more options in bitcoin and might be able to "just say no" to banks.. but even that is a bit pie in the sky including people that we likely interact with too.. some will want to interact in dollars, and maybe more and more will be ready, willing and able to move some of their value into bitcoin in order that circular economies in bitcoin might become more practical and in practice rather than theories that are not realistic if we live in communities in which we ONLY know a few people who accept and/or transact in bitcoin, versus if we know where to buy our various products and services in bitcoin, we are likely going to be more empowered by those kinds of direct interactions to the extent that normies even know how to directly transact in bitcoin and/or in lightning and/or in other bitcoin - pegged products.. I am not really referring to any shitcoins in this regard, but sometimes bitcoiners might need to figure out if there might be abilities to transact in shitcoins and not in bitcoin.. or if bitcoin remains one of the available options. bitcoin will never overtake bank, because now it is hard to predict that bitcoin will be adopt all of the country in future, banking system is very strong, economically a country is managed through banks without it a state is immobilized, so still people's have to trust their traditional bank, but i am not saying that bank is completely secured,
You are not really saying much, and you don't even seem to be attempting to grapple with the questions and/or several of the problems that bitcoin is capable of resolving (or at least addressing and providing alternatives / other transactions and/or storage of value options) . 3: Many developing or underdeveloped countries (especially those with low leverage) will consider cryptocurrency a curse rather than a blessing due to their lack of proper understanding of its importance.
Cryptocurrency is now getting acceptable and those who don't know yet will surely go towards learning about its characteristic because it is a reality that whenever new things come into use then people first start investigating about it then use their money for investment. Those were the people of past were innocent who don't understand well but put money into anything but now age is modern and also people are modified according to era so they will not think bitcoin as a curse but they will realize its benefits. Like you have seen that instead of having strict regulations in some country people are still buying more and more bitcoin because they know that a day will come when their country will accept bitcoin so I think that it is will of everyone to be educated about bitcoin as they already know that importance of bitcoin. Sometimes wanting to introduce bitcoin, systems, concepts to lay people is still difficult and they almost don't believe the concept after it is explained. I told my friends the same age as my parents, that they believed from the start that they only knew fiat money. only young people believe because the version of the modern world has changed. Until now, young people in my area can get to know bitcoin and cryptoFuck crypto.. Get to know bitcoin first, and surely even within the ideas of studying bitcoin first, there might be some circumstances in which shitcoins come up and some circumstances in which shitcoins might be used in some given area, but try to stay focused mostly on bitcoin instead of letting yourself get distracted into shitcoins or even feeling like you need to say "bitcoin and crypto," when it is not necessary. Focus on what is happening with bitcoin, and if their happens to be some various shitcoins in your area or relevant to whatever you are talking about, then surely you might acknowledge such happenings and/or even point out what is going on with the shitcoins, whether it is even important at all beyond just mentioning that some people are involved in x, y and/or z shitcoins for this that or some other purpose.. if you actually see it on the ground rather than hearing about crypto and thinking that it is important to mention crypto just to sound like you are smarter because you are not bitcoin exclusive.. which surely is dumb in and of itself, even though any of us can here a lot of seemingly smart people talk with such loosey goosey language and acting like they know what they are talking about when they likely do not... especially if they use the term crypto without some kind of a proper reference as to why it is being used, discussed or put at the side of topics in which we are talking about bitcoin.
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1) Self-Custody is a right. There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted." 2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized. 3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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