Vod vs OgNasty - document affidavit phase

[JollyGood]

Imagine a close family member gets severely injured due to an impaired accident by a rich influencer.  You'll need to sell everything your family owns to take care of them.  You have a chance at a couple hundred bitcoin for a few dollars - do you think it would be possible to find a mutually acceptable solution?  We've reserved two weeks in court, but OgNasty will not have to be there.   He put up such a brave face on the forum that no one would suspect reading my posts could cause him stress, anxiety, and several million in defence therapy.  

Considering the court case is going to put you under a lot of stress, you have to ask yourself if there was another way. I think your health has to be paramount and anything else can be secondary. Failing that, if you feel you have exhausted all other avenues (and this is the only way going forward) then I suppose there in no chance of settling the matter outside of the court. I just wish it never got this point and a solution had been found.

JG - I've love to show you the facts that I have, but I have that illogical fear somehow it would be used against me.  I'll post the court date here when it is scheduled - we'll want to record the proceedings for posterity.  

As this is a legal matter, both of you are strongly advised to never divulge personal information related to the case to anybody, especially not to strangers in an online forum.

I feel to some degree it is a failure on our part as members of the community that we were unable to get involved much sooner to facilitate some sort of mutually accepted solution between both parties. If a group of members that were agreed upon by yourselves managed to arbitrate, maybe the matter would not be at the court today.

I used to know (or thought I knew) bill gator's RL name and where he lived, as he wanted to meet up a while back.  Unless he sold his account to OgNasty or someone else, he's not an alt account of one of the long-time members who's got a dog in this fight.  On the other hand, from our last exchanges it seems possible bill gator would have sold his account--but I certainly can't say he did, as I've no evidence of that.

One way to find out if the account has been sold or not could be to ask him to sign a message. Another is to ask him to confirm the name you were given. It should be an indicator if the account has changed hands. If you two were on friendly terms, he should not have a problem confirming certain details.

The problem is that for some time now, accounts are being sold with private keys to old address that can be signed and without the PMs being deleted. Keeping that in mind, he might be able to provide enough for you to be satisfied.

[NotATether]

As this is a legal matter, both of you are strongly advised to never divulge personal information related to the case to anybody, especially not to strangers in an online forum.

To this end, I would not be surprised if a gag order is served soon that prevents further discord of this topic on Bitcointalk.

[mrust_mobile]

I used to know (or thought I knew) bill gator's RL name and where he lived, as he wanted to meet up a while back.  Unless he sold his account to OgNasty or someone else, he's not an alt account of one of the long-time members who's got a dog in this fight.  On the other hand, from our last exchanges it seems possible bill gator would have sold his account--but I certainly can't say he did, as I've no evidence of that.

Read this post above as if you were this guy below:



“The fundamental question is: Will I be as effective as a boss like my dad was? And I will be. Even more so. But until I am... It's gonna be hard to verify that I think I'll be more effective.”

One of the best Carmine Jr. impersonations I’ve ever encountered on the internet. Bravo.

[Vod]

As this is a legal matter, both of you are strongly advised to never divulge personal information related to the case to anybody, especially not to strangers in an online forum.

To this end, I would not be surprised if a gag order is served soon that prevents further discord of this topic on Bitcointalk.

Won't be from me.  I've been trying to expose his criminal "inconsistencies" for years, and I can wait a few more months.

[OgNasty]

Pedophilia is a crime. Saying, "You are a pedophile.", in the broad spectrum of ways OgNasty has said this to Vod, is accusing him of committing a crime. Am I missing something? He seemed 100% certain that Vod molests kids.

I wasn’t the one who accused him of having a desire for inappropriate behavior with kids. He sent me a link to accusations made about his alleged inappropriate behavior regarding children that predated our interaction by years. If he wants to prove his innocence, he should direct his lawsuit at the source of the accusations.

As is, if he gets his day in court, the multiple accusations (again, not made by me) will be documented for everyone to read forever. I was nice enough not to include the link in my defense statement, but he wants to keep pushing this so there will come a time when I cannot protect him from himself any longer. Hearing those accusations read out loud in a courtroom would be wild.

Meanwhile, he continues spreading lies about me calling me a thief and a criminal, which is actual libel he made up and provably false.

Don't forget that he is also suing me for libel because I said this was an extortion attempt: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5136576.0
(I even posted the letter being 100% transparent in my opinion so the reader could decide for themselves. Notice his request that I post the message he sent me, which he then sued me for.)

[bill gator]

Am I missing something?

More than you know, while swinging above your weight-class, Mr. Aspiring Alt w/ 1 post!

Pedophilia is a crime.

It can be, but it doesn't have to be & for those of you that don't understand how that could be (or why it matters) -

"You're a pedophile" is not exclusively used as a claim of conviction, especially in a relaxed environment (like our beautiful forum); it can mean you're attracted to (or more specifically, that person's interpretation of) a minor, OR (here's an important colloquial context) "someone that's too young for them", but it can alternatively mean that you've illegally engaged in behaviors associated with that demographic.

Saying, "You are a pedophile." ... is accusing him of committing a crime.

Wrong, see above; but you (& Dearly Beloved(s)) saying so might ironically be libel towards OG, eh?

Why the hell are you so pressed over the state of the country?

I'm ignoring this because it's a stupid question, asked in bad faith.

I'm sitting here with the biggest bullshit negative feedback from somebody you are all defending as a hero.

Oh, now you definitely sound like him. *parrot noise intensifies* 
Somebody isn't happy with the little orange number ...

Notice how I haven't really posted in years? I grew up, you're talking about a literal child that's gone now; it's cute that you did all that research for your first post, (& missed every point along the way), you'll fit in swimmingly.

I do not care about what any of you think of me or anything you have to say about me -

Now imagine, how much better of a place this would be if you plus crew turned off your fucking computers for a few minutes & stopped pretending to be autistic batman?

I'm just baffled to see you all fucking up a good thing, by being collectively retarded

[JollyGood]

I am no legal expert therefore am expressing an opinion that could be completely wrong as far as the law is concerned. Maybe in order to have a ban imposed (such as a gag order), one of the two parties would have to approach the court to ask for it.

Having said that, I would have thought that the judge overseeing the hearings would have taken action unilaterally because the case is based around what was posted in the forum. As a precaution to stop further issues arising, it makes sense to stop either of them posting on the matter.

To this end, I would not be surprised if a gag order is served soon that prevents further discord of this topic on Bitcointalk.

[Vod]

...the judge overseeing the hearings

There is no judge assigned yet.  If OG still feels I am putting his life in danger, he has to ask his lawyer for an injunction. 

[ibminer]

Og sowed slime and schemes,
Now he slips on what he spread.
Weasel meets his muck.

[DaveF]

Og sowed slime and schemes,
Now he slips on what he spread.
Weasel meets his muck.

Haiku?

If we are doing poetry I would think a dirty limerick would be better :-)

-Dave

[Vod]

I'm a little bit confused here.  Where is all this anger against OG coming from?  I'm looking at his sworn statements that claim he is universally respected and "known to financially support and promote smaller cryptocurrency forums".

For those of who you prefer not to wait uther 3-6 months to find out who the pathological liar is, I am putting together a (redacted of PII) a list of his claims alongside his quotes which disprove them.  I don't know if he discussed things with his lawyer while drunk or if he has a suspected memory issue, but that will come out during pre-trial questioning.

As is, I’m going after him for legal fees with the expectation that he will be held financially accountable for his actions.

You are not "going after me".     If I drop the lawsuit, what happens to your standard "recovery of legal fees" defense?    Have your lawyer file a claim to go after me, bozo.  That can include your (deleted) extortion claims, if she is willing to entertain your vexatious abuse of process.

[Vod]

If I drop the lawsuit

What is this drop the lawsuit talk? Ever since I found out that Canadian authorities review civil cases for potential criminal activity and extortion has no statute of limitations as well as being punishable by up to life in prison, I welcome this frivolous lawsuit. Looking forward to seeing how this all plays out for you.

You'll need to sue me on that one bozo - I would think your lawyer would have explained what extortion is.     No more talk of dropping the lawsuit then.

[ibminer]

If we are doing poetry I would think a dirty limerick would be better :-)

Idk, it seemed like a good time for a haiku, albeit on a Monday.... but maybe you're right. Since you've specified a dirty limerick, here's what I've come up with.

There once lived a man full of guile
With a wicked serpentine smile
He schemed, lied, and played
Leaving trust torn and frayed
Now he's choking on karma's shaft in style

There once was a two-faced abuser
A deceitful manipulative user
He'd scheme, lie, and smear
While power mongering fear
Now he's strapped, holes spread, with a cooser

Bonus: Learned a new word today while seeking relevant rhyming words... Cooser: Scottish term for stallion. In other words, an uncastrated male horse used primarily for breeding. *slow nod*

White & Nerdy

[Quickseller]

In general, a defamation lawsuit's purpose is to recover damages for actual losses, not to prove that a statement was false. Using a lawsuit as a tool to force a party to make a statement about a particular dispute is not appropriate. I am not familiar with Canadian law, and any decision will be made by the judge, who will base their decision on the specific facts available to them. But I don't think doing that will lead to a positive outcome.

Someone asked who others think is going to win, and I guess I will add my commentary. The below is my personal opinion, and shouldn't be taken as advice to anyone.

I can't find the case files without having to go through a paywall, which I am not interested in doing, so much of my commentary may not match the facts of the case exactly.

Based on my memory of the contents of this thread, it appears the lawsuit is a defamation lawsuit, attempting to recover damages. In order to win a defamation lawsuit, the plaintiff must show (1)that the defendant made a false statement, (2) the false statement was published to a third party and (3)that the false statement caused damages. There is also a legal standard for 'fault', but that is fairly technical.

I am not sure what the specific alleged statement that OgN made. The specific statement is important because giving an opinion cannot be defamatory, and saying things like "Mr Smith wrote that he saw Ms James run a red light" is true as long as Mr Smith actually wrote that Ms James ran a red light, even if Ms James is actually innocent of running a red light.

The lawsuit appears to be about posts made on the forum, so I assume that criterion has been met. Although if the statements were only made via PM to vod, or among a few other potential circumstances, this criterion would not be met.


Lastly, the statement must have caused damages. It is possible for a plaintiff to sue for nominal damages ($1), but that doesn't appear to be the case here. This one is a little tricky. Damages from defamation typically are for lost income, but can also be for additional expenses incurred as a result of the false statement. Expenses could include medical bills, but recovering medical expenses will typically require showing the false statement directly caused the condition, and will require expert witnesses. More common damages recovered from a defamation suit are those resulting from lost wages or business income. The issue here is that Vod has not typically attempted to earn income from his time on the forum -- to my recollection, he has not ever sold his signature, or otherwise conducted more than the occasional transaction. Vod's irl identity is known on the forum, but I am not sure if his employers and potential employers know of his forum identity, or were made aware of the allegedly false statement.

I don't think Vod lost very much money over anything that OgN said. I think its unlikely potential employers or potential clients would decline to do business with Vod over something OgN said. I am not familiar with Vod's medical history, so I can't say if medical bills would be recoverable, but again, it would be a high bar to show a condition was directly attributable to anything that OgN said.

[mindrust]

Makes sense. If Vod has any chance to win this lawsuit he needs to prove the financial losses caused by OG’s false statements about him.

So I am free to say “person x murders kids” but if that person loses his job because of my statement, he can sue me for that. If the judge says person x don’t murder no kids, then I am effed.

The case we are looking at is pretty much this unless I am missing something.

That means it is going nowhere.

Edit: there is a small detail though, OG was using Vod’s real name when he was making these statements and that might change a few things in this picture. It is not like two anonymous forum users are having a fight. If OG wasn’t doing that then Vod would absolutely lose this case now at least he has a chance to win. It still depends on the evidence he will provide though. Impossible to come up with a precise probability guess at this point but based on what we knew so far I wouldn’t say his chances are great.

[Vod]

Makes sense. If Vod has any chance to win this lawsuit he needs to prove the financial losses caused by OG’s false statements about him.

No, Vod has won the lawsuit already.  He needs to prove the losses for increased punitive damages.

[Quickseller]

...the judge overseeing the hearings

There is no judge assigned yet.  If OG still feels I am putting his life in danger, he has to ask his lawyer for an injunction.  

Makes sense. If Vod has any chance to win this lawsuit he needs to prove the financial losses caused by OG’s false statements about him.

No, Vod has won the lawsuit already. He needs to prove the losses for increased punitive damages.

the case went from having no judge assigned to the trial being completed in five days?

[mindrust]

I described a similar situation (forum fight, doxxing of a user, a false serious accusation similar to p*d*philia) to chatgpt and mentioned the country is the US and gpt said the accuser might get effed financially.

Even getting stressed (it counts as emotional harm) over the false claims is enough to sue the accuser it appears.

It also says doxxing itself is a punishable act under harassment so there is that.

If OG also made any physical threats towards Vod, then we can say goodbye to him. (On one occasion I’ve seen him doing it to LV -the post was about LV’s tooth- so It wouldn’t surprise me if he did it to vod too)

[Vod]

It also says doxxing itself is a punishable act under harassment so there is that.

Unfortunately, OG doxxing me has timed out.  His forum defence is that his fantasies about sex with children were just jokes.  In his written defence, he claims he meant no malice.    Imagine being so comfortable with pedophilia that you think accusing others of it is no harm / no foul.  

[DaveF]

...I can't find the case files without having to go through a paywall, which I am not interested in doing, so much of my commentary may not match the facts of the case exactly....

Where did you find anything? I gave a quick look and didn't even see anything even paywalled.
Did not look that hard however.

-Dave