Is 1miau fit for DT?

[Poker Player]

As for you, Poker Player, it is not surprising that you are here to totally agree that 1miau deserves to continue to be a DT1 member, and have completely overlooked the compelling points and evidence provided by the OP...and in addition, have started your presence in this topic by shifting focus to digaran instead of addressing the OP and the actual point of discussion. I have noticed you obviously and subtly defending 1miau multiple times in the past, and now.

Yes? To begin with, neither I have 1miau on my trust list nor he has me, nor have we left positive feedback each other. Cite all those supposed times, go ahead. And besides, if we coincide many times, so what? Of course I'm more likely to agree with him than with a troll like digaran or a hypocrite like you.

As for "overlooking" the OP's facts, what I'm saying is that someone who trusts 1miau for his overall ability to leave correct feedbacks and for his trust list, is not going to change because of those facts. Maybe someone does, but it's not going to be massive as in the case of Ratimov.

[GazetaBitcoin]

As for "overlooking" the OP's facts, what I'm saying is that someone who trusts 1miau for his overall ability to leave correct feedbacks and for his trust list, is not going to change because of those facts.

This is correct. 1miau is a very good forum contributor and a fair DT user. If we look at 1miau's feedbacks we can see that they are more fair compared to many other (DT) users' feedbacks.

Maybe someone does, but it's not going to be massive as in the case of Ratimov.

This is also true. I highly doubt that 1miau would risk being massively distrusted. 1miau acted in a fair and correct manner for years, while Ratimov tried to fool the entire forum for years. 1miau wrote useful topics and never tried to impersonate other authors, while Ratimov plagiarized and presented other's work as being his. 1miau did not make a career with copy-pasted essays, while Ratimov earned thousands of merits with copy-paste. 1miau never extorted someone with negative feedbacks, while Ratimov terrorized many forum users which ever dared to state the truth about him. 1miau earned his respect in time, while Ratimov bought an army of minions by showering them in merits.

1miau is a correct forum user, while Ratimov is a bad joke.

Should I continue? I guess not.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470732.msg63017139#msg63017139

Oof, that's definitely a topic that'll spark some strong emotional responses to people who disagree with your point of view.

But here's the simple truth: DT members should not let disagreements affect them when it comes to using the trust system properly--and here I'm making the assumption that the community has reached a consensus on what "proper" use of it is.  From what I've read it does seem like 1miau's actions were spurred by emotion, but even if I'm correct I wouldn't say those actions rise to the level of wiping him from the DT list.  I don't know where the cutoff point is for iffy behavior and calls for DT exclusion, but in my opinion it didn't reach it in this case.

There's got to be some leeway given to DT members, because they're all human and all make mistakes from time to time.  To keep someone from being on it, I'd say there needs to be an established pattern of misuse of the trust system or some other major reason (like a proven scam/attempted scam/etc.).

That's not to say there shouldn't be debates like this.  I don't fault OP for creating this thread, even though I'm probably not in line with what his opinion is on 1miau being on DT.  This is how we establish where boundaries are.

[mikeywith]

1miau acted in a fair and correct manner for years

That is correct, he has been a great DT member up to the point when he was debated on a political topic, he decided to do everything at his disposal to punish everyone who disagreed with him, be it the exclusion of a member he trusted for 4 years, removing a positive feedback, or giving a negative feedback.

But here's the simple truth: DT members should not let disagreements affect them when it comes to using the trust system properly--and here I'm making the assumption that the community has reached a consensus on what "proper" use of it is.  From what I've read it does seem like 1miau's actions were spurred by emotion, but even if I'm correct I wouldn't say those actions rise to the level of wiping him from the DT list.  I don't know where the cutoff point is for iffy behavior and calls for DT exclusion, but in my opinion it didn't reach it in this case.

I agree, I don't think he should be removed from DT just yet, his right-doings still overcome his bad, I just hope that he realizes his mistakes and refrains from doing them again, he needs to control his emotions and act like a grown-up man who can take criticism without the urge of punishing those who disagree with him.

I'd say there needs to be an established pattern of misuse of the trust system or some other major reason (like a proven scam/attempted scam/etc.).

The trust list / DT shouldn't be related only to scams, the ratings should be yes, but the trust list should be dictated by a few other factors, in fact, the trust list of the people you trust is very important, when you add someone to your trust list you are giving them more strength and visibility, their "vote" matters more with your inclusion.

if that person's trust list is based on their political point of you, then you know their judgment is bad and they shouldn't be on your trust list, just imagine someone is on DT1  with just 1 inclusion, and then suddenly due to their political views they get an exclusion from 1miau and are no longer on DT list, so now all the feedback left by that person are no longer visible just because 1miau wants everyone to agree with him on a 70-year-old conflict.

Furthermore, the fact that his exclusions are based on political disagreements, there could be times when his inclusions are also affected by the same thing, so this topic should at least serve as a warning and reminder for him and everyone else that for this trust system to work effectively, you should only include and exclude members based on your judgment of their judgment related to the trust system, not because they disagree with your points of view on something unrelated to the trust system, and the same thing applies for leaving/removing feedback.

[1miau]

1miau acted in a fair and correct manner for years

That is correct, he has been a great DT member up to the point when he was debated on a political topic, he decided to do everything at his disposal to punish everyone who disagreed with him, be it the exclusion of a member he trusted for 4 years, removing a positive feedback, or giving a negative feedback.

According to your logic, you are "punishing" me with a smear topic now because you are offended about my trust list and my removed positive feedback on your account. Still you are accusing me of being "Power hungry", while I couldn't care less who's distrusting me or how many positive feedbacks I have.
Nice clown show, isn't it? Have you been that vocal when there was real abuse ongoing, like from Ratimov?

After I've thought this could be settled in a civil way with you and I even wanted to reconsider my trust list exclusion at some point, I don't see any possibility right now why I should change my viewpoint after your topic littered with unproven accusations.

Where is any proof that I've included scammers on my trust list?
Stop acting like a child, where your only argument is "could", "would" or "might be".
That's shady as shit and shows that YOU are not fit for DT and have a horrible judgement.
Your posts are just empty speculations without proof.

So, I don't trust any weasels and at this point you deserve a fixed spot on my distrust list.

[digaran]

@1miau, can you in one or two sentences explain your reason as to what exactly prompted you to leave a neg trust on me?

I think any reasonable person would agree with your logic, if you are on the right side, if you can convince us with your reason, I will call out mikeywith a true trust abuser and then apologize publicly to you. Sir 1miau

[BabyBandit]

Stop arguing now people, it's no wrong to have different opinions. I don't understand why people here have so damn hard to accept that some people just don't share their opinions and have different view of how you should living your life, just go different directions, ignore each other, it's no wrong or right we just choose different paths in life.

Come on now, everyone, me to. Stop this unnecessary drama and move on! We all will be happier without this kind of drama in our life's.  

[examplens]

I'm not sure if this thread is open to solving your doubts about whether 1miau is eligible for DT, or if you're asking the community to exclude him from the DT selection. You seem insulted to me, because you had (perhaps still have) trust in 1miau and his judgement, and he returned it with distrust. Anyway, I see that he is still on your trust list, also the feedback you left him can be interpreted as a direct answer to the question posed by this topic.

1miau

2023-04-24

I have been following and interacting with "1miau persona" for years now, and I have no doubt that he is to be trusted

3- He removed me from his trust list despite being on it since 2019 as far as I remember.

4- He added me to his "distrust" list.

If I may ask. Why is the argument that he moved you from trust to his distrust list? Is this strictly prohibited and is excluding you considered a direct violation of the "rules"?

This example you mentioned, its (1miau) negative tag is certainly not the best reference, because it is about the user who already has several negative feedbacks due to similar things. 6 negative, mostly accusations of trolling.


As for the "conflict" that started the whole thing, I'm quite surprised that you both went that far. A completely useless debate where both sides claim that their media sources of information are more honest than the other. That's the first thing I saw after a quick look at the discussion you mentioned.

To @1miau, (not to write in your thread specifically). You mentioned that we all need to have a thicker skin here, shouldn't that apply to you as well and that you don't fall into the fire through dramas like this? Because of politics, seriously?

[1miau]

To @1miau, (not to write in your thread specifically). You mentioned that we all need to have a thicker skin here, shouldn't that apply to you as well and that you don't fall into the fire through dramas like this? Because of politics, seriously?

That's true and as for every case I'll also review what I can do to avoid more of such drama. I've not been the one starting this clown show in Reputation but obviously my trust list and my removed feedback really bothered mikeywith to an extent that he needed to start such a topic and that's why I've suggested he should have a thicker skin. My trust list is not his business as long as I don't include scammers, give out unjustified negative or positive Trust or something else. Only thing he wants to do here is to intimidate me, how I have to use my feedbacks or trust list because he fehlt offended that I removed him from my trust list and my positive rating after our disagreement in P&S.
I thought this topic was settled already and we would move on, yet he started this topic out of nowhere. Of course I'll point out misleading accusations then.

And yes, sometimes it's best just to agree to disagree (and stopping to interfere in my Trust list) but for the current case it remains to be seen if mikeywith is willing to do the same and agree to disagree. Repeated name calling and insults of all sort should be settled after some time. That's part of having a thicker skin.

[LoyceV]

As for the "conflict" that started the whole thing, I'm quite surprised that you both went that far. A completely useless debate where both sides claim that their media sources of information are more honest than the other. That's the first thing I saw after a quick look at the discussion you mentioned.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details, but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.
This has potential to turn into a year-long-feud. Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

[1miau]

Thanks for your feedback LoyceV, as well.

This has potential to turn into a year-long-feut. Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

I can agree here and that would probably the worst outcome, helping no one.

[AB de Royse777]

As for the "conflict" that started the whole thing, I'm quite surprised that you both went that far. A completely useless debate where both sides claim that their media sources of information are more honest than the other. That's the first thing I saw after a quick look at the discussion you mentioned.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details, but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.
This has potential to turn into a year-long-feut. Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

Well said.

1miau and mikeywith, your argument is going to stop killing the innocent children and women in Gaza, the constant conflict in the Middle East, Russia invading Ukraine, failure of US to bring peace in the world? Any of your argument is not going to stop the propaganda spreading by the main stream media to sell their news.

Shake the hands and don't speak politics. None of us cares about anyone else in the world, we only think for ourselves, we are limited and programmed to justify everything in our own favor and we don't speak a word unless it brings at least some benefits to us.

[yahoo62278]

I disagree with everyone who thinks this should end. News outlets would NEVER lie to any of us. Shame on you for thinking that. This conflict MUST go on until someone dies. Sorry, but that's the rules LMAO.

[mikeywith]

I'm not sure if this thread is open to solving your doubts about whether 1miau is eligible for DT

It's to see what the community thinks of someone who treats the trust system as a tool to punish those who disagree with his political views, I did not remove my positive rating because it has nothing to do with this, I still think he is somewhat trusted with trades, as for not excluding him from my trust list, I don't believe in tit for tat, excluding him now would sound like it's a retaliation, besides, I am not on DT1.

If I may ask. Why is the argument that he moved you from trust to his distrust list? Is this strictly prohibited and is excluding you considered a direct violation of the "rules"?

There are no rules for trust lists, but he did that because of political disagreement, the exclusion itself means nothing on it's own, people edit their trust list all the time, and nobody cares, but when you do it as a punishment for political related issues, it's means something, of course along with him tagging another member who disagreed with him, and removing his positive feedback from another member.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details,

The details of the discussion in P&S are irrelevant, we disagreed on a political conflict just like everyone else does, it should not have left that particular thread, but he took it out outside by

1- he sent me a PM full of insults and demanded that I remove my positive feedback (because of the disagreement)
2- he deleted positive feedback he had previously given to another member (because of the disagreement)
3- he added negative feedback to another member (because of the disagreement)
4- he removed me from his inclusion and ~ me (because of the disagreement)


This isn't a personal issue between him and me, it's not about politics or who is right and who is wrong, it's about 1miau using the trust system to punish everyone who disagrees with him, do you think it's an accepted behavior and should be the norm? can a pro-Russian DT visit the Ukrian vs Russia thread and exclude every pro-Ukranian because it's not against the "rules" to do that? furthermore, would he still be worthy of being a DT member after doing so?

but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.

You are 100% correct in this, if he was not the child he is, this disagreement should have ended right after the 2-3 posts on that topic, but alas, this dude took this way too far, I was not bothered by the insults and the PMs, it was how he used the trust system to punish us for disagreeing with him.

Don't go there, get a beer together and move on

Let this serve as a reminder that 1miau is a terrible person to interact with, 4-5 years of friendly relationship with him, never disrespected him, and always treated him nicely and with respect, and none of that meant anything to him the moment I disagreed with him on a political subject, a grown-up person would not insult and curse someone over a political disagreement, let alone someone you know and have interacted with for many years.

your argument is going to stop killing the innocent children and women in Gaza

1miau could very well exclude you, neg tag you, or remove any positive feedback he left on your profile because if this line, he thinks that no innocent children are being killed in Gaza and it's all but lies, and thus to him, you are an "Islamist propagandist" who should be punished using the trust system, obviously, he wouldn't do it now because he was just exposed, but I am sure he will hold a grudge against you for saying this until the right time come.

[mindrust]

I believe I am in the same boat.

In March-2022, I was posting in the political section about the Ukr-Rus war in this topic below:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5382794.msg59455961#msg59455961

I see that he distrusted me after 13-March-2022 as you can see in LoyceV's trust viewer:

https://loyce.club/trust/2022-03-13_Sun_11.49h/176777.html

Not that it is a big deal or I care about it since I don't have a trust list but I agree with the OP, he is sensitive about this war and he will probably distrust (or red tag if the account in question was already tagged red, that's what digaran and nullius have in common) anybody who sides with Russia or talk positively about Russia. (nullius got a red for the same reason) Maybe he finds Russia supporters untrustworthy which is OK unless the rest of the DT1 users agree with this view.

I distrusted people for a similar (or maybe not that similar) reason in the past too. I distrusted most bcash followers and those who believed Craig is satoshi... But I think there are a few differences between this and that situation I told you above but it is the DT1's job to figure it out.


Another note:

suchmoon (who has some knowledge in these stuff) says we should send red trust ratings if there is a trade related risk with the user. So I think, it is inappropriate to send red trust ratings based on the user's political views.

[LoyceV]

I disagreed with him on a political subject

That's one of the reasons I stay out of P&S. As much as I don't mind having a political discussion, it will lead to terrible disagreements that have nothing to do with a Bitcoin forum. I'm pretty sure there's a subject out there on which I can disagree with every single user on Bitcointalk. Just Google "controversial political topics", it instantly lists 18 topics. That gives 262144 different positions already, and there's countless more subjects out there. It's not worth it.

As a reminder:

I don't have a problem with alt accounts as long as they're not used for evading bans. If you're hesitant to say something controversial because you don't want it to be associated with your name, please create an alt account and say it.

[mindrust]

That's one of the reasons I stay out of P&S. As much as I don't mind having a political discussion, it will lead to terrible disagreements that have nothing to do with a Bitcoin forum. I'm pretty sure there's a subject out there on which I can disagree with every single user on Bitcointalk. Just Google "controversial political topics", it instantly lists 18 topics. That gives 262144 different positions already, and there's countless more subjects out there. It's not worth it.

Yep, I stopped talking politics long time ago because of a similar reason too. Not that I am afraid of getting distrusted by the Zelensky gang but it is an unproductive discussion which goes nowhere.

[mikeywith]

I believe I am in the same boat.
I see that he distrusted me after 13-March-2022 as you can see in LoyceV's trust viewer:

Hmmm, I see, so this an old habit then, naughty 1miau managed to hide his dirty games all this long.

It would be interesting to see all the people he included/excluded solely for political disagreement.

Of course, get ready for his reply, he will

1- make it seem like you are just upset because of the exclusion itself
2- Some other meaningless bullshit on why he excluded you right after your political statement.

[philipma1957]

As for the "conflict" that started the whole thing, I'm quite surprised that you both went that far. A completely useless debate where both sides claim that their media sources of information are more honest than the other. That's the first thing I saw after a quick look at the discussion you mentioned.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details, but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.
This has potential to turn into a year-long-feud. Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

Well said.

1miau and mikeywith, your argument is going to stop killing the innocent children and women in Gaza, the constant conflict in the Middle East, Russia invading Ukraine, failure of US to bring peace in the world? Any of your argument is not going to stop the propaganda spreading by the main stream media to sell their news.

Shake the hands and don't speak politics. None of us cares about anyone else in the world, we only think for ourselves, we are limited and programmed to justify everything in our own favor and we don't speak a word unless it brings at least some benefits to us.

This is a voice of reason. (royse777)

Most info we see is shaded lies designed to tear us apart. So that the puppet masters can get their way.

My business partner Loves Donald Trump and hates Joe Biden anyone that gets in that box of beliefs has fallen victim to brainwashing.
If my business partner loved Joe Biden and hated Donald Trump they have fallen victim to brainwashing.

Same goes Israel and Gaza the conflict is designed to sell weapons and keep the military industrial complex alive and well.

mikeywith has been a level head good guy with me.
I don't know 1miau very well.
I will tell them both
To fight with passion for either side means you are both feeding the military - industrial complex. And rich fucks are making money off your passion.

I watched Vietnam
I watched lots of conflicts.
1967 six day war.
Iranian Hostage conflict
Desert Storm
World Trade Center. in which I lost a fire fighter cousin and my wife was working blocks from the WTC when the planes hit.
Afghanistan
Ukraine vs Russia
Gaza vs Israel


and in all the cases above weapons builders made money.


All of you watch this movie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_War

and understand if you make a stand and take a side you feed into the war monster.


Believe me it is not easy to resist.

I have a good Russian friend
My therapist is Ukraine descent with relatives still there.

I know these 2 for close to 20 and 30 years.

Both think their former countries are correct.

Both are well educated and intelligent.

I can tell you they are falling victims to war-monger puppet masters.

I told both of them that and intellectually they get it but emotions run deep and they both struggle.

Which is how I sometimes feel about the World Trade Center. I want to hurt and kill over it. I don't as I realize 66 years down maybe 10-30 years left so I am not feeding into the war machine anymore.

I am mining for BTC + LTC + DOGE instead  

[mindrust]

9/11 was an inside job and Putin is winning. Nobody needs to be upset. Let's get a beer and stop talking politics. There is enough beer for everyone in the world. Fuck politics.