The effect the mixer ban has had on the forum.

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

Any "admin" can make up anything they want.

It doesn't work like that, teleported people have a link to in their Bitcointalk profile that links to the Altcointalk profile. The Altcointalk admin can't log into your account here and put a link.

The admin can fake a LoyceV account there. The admin doesn’t have to follow his own rules. That’s what he meant.

And if the admin fakes "LoyceV's account on bitcointalk, will he/she also be able to input the link to his altcoin account on his Bitcointalk profile? I guess that will be impossible, and as such that's how people will be able to know that the account created on the alternative site as been fake, since one criteria needed for the creation of a altcoin account is for such member to input his/her account link on his bitcointalk profile.

Alexa is dead, those are false numbers. To be honest, I wouldn't rely on statistics given by those websites.

well you could be correct I have zero idea how to know website traffic reported is accurate.

How about if I sign in and out of this website 10 times an hour daily does it count at 240 visits or 1 ?

For me, I think how much time spent per each visit for the 10 times per hour will determine if it will count or not, because just as we know how the Youtube algorithm works, as for a video view to be counted as 1 view, it is required that such a video needs to be watch for at least 1 to 5 minutes and above, hence when it comes to website page visits, if only you can spend at least 1 to 5 minutes per each visits, then it will definitely count in the monthly statistical traffic result.

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[JollyGood]

Without a shadow of doubt, the same principal applies to this forum because members here would vanish overnight if signature campaigns were ever to be banned. Almost every member here is posting because they get paid for it therefore if you take the pay away they will go elsewhere to get pay.

I suppose if theymos ever wanted to have this forum cleaned-up and have it taken back to a place where it was about newbies asking about Bitcoin on one hand and advanced members posting about core issues on the other, then he should ban signature campaigns but that decision is going to bring seismic and maybe unforeseen changes.

They knew they could get paid by posting in the other forum and knew mixers would be paying the highest rates therefore they followed where another revenue stream went. I have not read any reason from members stating they went there (or want to go there) in order to improve the other forum with their contributions.

Well, that's the sad truth. I refuse to believe someone makes an account there for other reason than money. However, I don't believe the overwhelming majority in bitcointalk would voluntarily contribute to their fellow forum users either. Perhaps occasionally, but certainly not with the same eagerness and frequency.

[mrust_mobile]

I think sig camps won't go away, but the mixer ban came screaming and with many warnings.

Before the forum-wide ban, a few mixers were seized by the police and they went down because they were laundering money for the terrorists. You can't take the risk of hosting these projects in your website. I am not sure if everybody fully understands the weight of this action. The other forum thinks they can do it... and the people who carry these signatures think, they can promote these projects without any consequences.

I hope none of them will find themselves in a position where they'll think "theymos was wise, I wish I stopped promoting mixers"

Here is the non-still picture you should be looking at. What's money when your ass sits in a jail cell?

[NotATether]

I think sig camps won't go away, but the mixer ban came screaming and with many warnings.

Before the forum-wide ban, a few mixers were seized by the police and they went down because they were laundering money for the terrorists. You can't take the risk of hosting these projects in your website. I am not sure if everybody fully understands the weight of this action. The other forum thinks they can do it... and the people who carry these signatures think, they can promote these projects without any consequences.

I hope none of them will find themselves in a position where they'll think "theymos was wise, I wish I stopped promoting mixers"

Here is the non-still picture you should be looking at. What's money when your ass sits in a jail cell?

At least in the case of BitMixList, if it comes to the point where mixers are completely outlawed worldwide, I can just take the site down.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I think sig camps won't go away, but the mixer ban came screaming and with many warnings.

The thing with mixers was that they were common targets. We can argue that casinos or exchanges could get seized for operating illegally sometimes as well, but it is an uncommon phenomenon, whereas mixers are in almost every nation considered unlicensed money transmitters. It is a matter of time until all are shut down, and that's the excuse for the precautionary measure, as I see it.

What we need to consider is where we're heading to in terms of legislature. If we start treating mixers as illicit entities, then it won't be late until every privacy solution is deemed as illicit. Whirlpool? Tagged as money transmitting service. Joinmarket? Tagged as money transmitting and obfuscating protocol. Monero? The same.

[bitmover]

Ask experts? ($99/yearly sub)They are selling their knowledge for money... You can get all the information you need here for free. Some bitcoin devs are still reading this forum and even if you can't reach any devs, there are other people as informed as them will answer your questions for free just to help bitcoin adoption.

Don't forget Bitcoin Stack Exchange. Absolute gold mine that. A few days ago I asked a question about default private key types and I got an answer from Pieter Wuille the next day.

Beside this place there is also r/bitcoin (becoming a bit spammy though) and Stacker News, although I guess these are not so oriented to "Expert Questions". And then there is the bitcoin-dev mailing list itself, which is.

Certainly stackoverflow and its subforums is one of the best forums in the internet.

I also like reddit. There are a tons of good places to share knowledge in the internet. As elon musk said, you can learn basically anything for free in the internet

[AlttAdmn]

https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=63.0

I actually thought to register for a second then I saw this thread above. Look at this beauty^

Conclusion:

This forum is trying to milk their users. If you go there and think you can milk them, think twice. Did theymos ever force any of you to pay for the forum expenses? Ever? This forum (shitcointalk) sells the basic forum features in the name of paying their expenses. (The expenses probably include a 50 feet long sailboat too) And you lose something when you don't post so they are forcing you to be active all the time (unless you pay to stay inactive)

This is worse than yobit's forum. This is a full blown pyramid scheme.

first of all, please remove these images, you are not authorised and we do not wish this to be displayed outside of our forum, you are free to join and write whatever you want, but taking screenshots to criticise on another platform, that's a bit too much, don't you think ?

Second, btt have tons of money, to do whatever they want, we do not have enough money to execute our basic plans, and we want to do a lot, and growth and development requires a lot of money. Startups spend millions on growth and development... Also for the records, paying users are a rarity, almost all special ranks were granted in the early days of the forum ... back in 2017-18!

There are only few features that are paying, and these features are problematic and require close monitoring, hence they were rendered unavailable, but then much much later, they were made available for special ranks and donors ...
Not your business to decide how another forum should be run IMO.

Every feature in altt was well thought about ... It is not bitcointalk, it is an entirely different forum, you sould not expect exact same rules and modus opperendi.

[mrust_mobile]

first of all, please remove these images, you are not authorised and we do not wish this to be displayed outside of our forum, you are free to join and write whatever you want, but taking screenshots to criticise on another platform, that's a bit too much, don't you think ?

You can go sex yourself. If you don't want to be screenshot, don't go public. Make it a private forum. I can criticize anything I see on the internet.

Second, btt have tons of money, to do whatever they want, we do not have enough money to execute our basic plans, and we want to do a lot, and growth and development requires a lot of money. Startups spend millions on growth and development... Also for the records, paying users are a rarity, almost all special ranks were granted in the early days of the forum ... back in 2017-18!

OK.

There are only few features that are paying, and these features are problematic and require close monitoring, hence they were rendered unavailable, but then much much later, they were made available for special ranks and donors ...
Not your business to decide how another forum should be run IMO.

Every feature in altt was well thought about ... It is not bitcointalk, it is an entirely different forum, you sould not expect exact same rules and modus opperendi.

OK.

[JCLadisav]

I don't understand lol

Altscointalk will become a better forum in future? Cool, we shall move there. Competition is what brings best to the customer.

[LoyceV]

first of all, please remove these images, you are not authorised and we do not wish this to be displayed outside of our forum, you are free to join and write whatever you want, but taking screenshots to criticise on another platform, that's a bit too much, don't you think ?

You can go sex yourself. If you don't want to be screenshot, don't go public. Make it a private forum. I can criticize anything I see on the internet.

Lol. So he wants to use Bitcointalk to promote his little forum, but doesn't want his money grabbing scam to be exposed.

[Synchronice]

I hope none of them will find themselves in a position where they'll think "theymos was wise, I wish I stopped promoting mixers"

Here is the non-still picture you should be looking at. What's money when your ass sits in a jail cell?

They know that theymos will be the only one who will face problem, not directly them. Many people are ready and willing to let this forum dive down if it gives them time to milk some profit before that happens. There are rarely some people out there who really vote for privacy and the freedom of speech. If mixers were paying $20 or something like that, believe me, no one would ever complain.

We can argue that casinos or exchanges could get seized for operating illegally sometimes as well, but it is an uncommon phenomenon, whereas mixers are in almost every nation considered unlicensed money transmitters.

That wont' happen to casinos because casinos are regulated with license and they ask for KYC data to their customers while mixers are not regulated, don't have any license and they don't ask for KYC, i.e. accept every kind of transaction. That's the difference, so, crypto casinos are in no danger.

[JollyGood]

In that case your list is going to be up and available for long time because mixers are not going anywhere. If the situation becomes completely untenable for mixers because of a concerted international effort by law enforcement agencies to ban them, then you will have to make the decision. You never know, in the future maybe mixers will end up being licenced on a country to country basis.

At least in the case of BitMixList, if it comes to the point where mixers are completely outlawed worldwide, I can just take the site down.

[philipma1957]

I think sig camps won't go away, but the mixer ban came screaming and with many warnings.

The thing with mixers was that they were common targets. We can argue that casinos or exchanges could get seized for operating illegally sometimes as well, but it is an uncommon phenomenon, whereas mixers are in almost every nation considered unlicensed money transmitters. It is a matter of time until all are shut down, and that's the excuse for the precautionary measure, as I see it.

What we need to consider is where we're heading to in terms of legislature. If we start treating mixers as illicit entities, then it won't be late until every privacy solution is deemed as illicit. Whirlpool? Tagged as money transmitting service. Joinmarket? Tagged as money transmitting and obfuscating protocol. Monero? The same.

yep.  and screen tx that some pools ban.

btw that removes the single best feature of btc. the ability to move wealth from an oppressive government to a ‘free’

it is the end of btc as a safe wealth storage.

for instance all those old untouched addresses from 2009 to 2011 could get frozen and not allowed to send their coins simply because a government declares them abandoned funds.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Not your business to decide how another forum should be run IMO.

We're not deciding anything (other than not using it). We're merely commenting on how bad it is. I get that you're trying to sell something, and you have to defend it at all costs, but... Please take a moment to consider that you're asking from us to censor ourselves... in another forum. Usually, a healthy business must accept judgment and feedback. You on the other hand, just want to strangle any negative opinion. That doesn't lead to a good reputation.

for instance all those old untouched addresses from 2009 to 2011 could get frozen and not allowed to send their coins simply because a government declares them abandoned funds.

How... exactly? Censoring transactions is evidently not sustainable.

[mrust_mobile]

for instance all those old untouched addresses from 2009 to 2011 could get frozen and not allowed to send their coins simply because a government declares them abandoned funds.

How... exactly? Censoring transactions is evidently not sustainable.

It is already happening. Just because they are doing it less, doesn't mean they won't do it more in the future.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5475157.0

[BlackHatCoiner]

It is already happening. Just because they are doing it less, doesn't mean they won't do it more in the future.

I know, and I think I've commented my part on that thread. But, just because one does it, doesn't make it the rule. Pretty much the opposite; the rest will find incentive to be as censorship resistant as possible. When Wasabi started with the blacklisting, we weren't afraid if the rest of the solutions would start censoring. Instead, their competitors saw this as the chance to demonstrate how free of censorship they are.

The problem is if pools ever manage to reorg for the sake of censoring, which, as I had outlined there, would be the day to abandon Bitcoin.

[mrust_mobile]

It is already happening. Just because they are doing it less, doesn't mean they won't do it more in the future.

I know, and I think I've commented my part on that thread. But, just because one does it, doesn't make it the rule. Pretty much the opposite; the rest will find incentive to be as censorship resistant as possible. When Wasabi started with the blacklisting, we weren't afraid if the rest of the solutions would start censoring. Instead, their competitors saw this as the chance to demonstrate how free of censorship they are.

The problem is if pools ever manage to reorg for the sake of censoring, which, as I had outlined there, would be the day to abandon Bitcoin.

The pools can't go against the law enforcement. They are companies obliged to pay tax to the government. When the gov ask them to censor a certain transaction, they will obey it. Or else...

It is already over imo. We are on borrowed time. Mind that it doesn't mean bitcoin will go to zero. That's not what I mean if anyone is worried about that.

It was over the day when mining became a company play. Only home mining can fight censorship.


Monero is an option and as I understand it, they can't go after the miners because the miners don't know what they are mining but they can go after the exchanges this time because they are also paying taxes and nearly all of them enforcing the KYC rules which kills the purpose of owning monero in the first place.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The pools can't go against the law enforcement. They are companies obliged to pay tax to the government. When the gov ask them to censor a certain transaction, they will obey it.

Pools are central point of failures, I get it. But, Bitcoin is decentralized. If a pool is commanded to censor a transaction, then it is a matter of time until another pool will mine it. Even if 99% of the hash rate belongs to pro-censorship pools, Bitcoin will still be censorship resistant, because 1 out of the 100 mined blocks will contain all the previously ignored / censored transactions.

If they are commanded to reorg, then that's when the shit hits the fan. I speculate that there is no financial benefit from such an action, and it is suicidal for the business, but I can't argue it is impossible to ever happen. It'd just be the very ending of Bitcoin as a censorship resistant form of money. (And maybe in general as money)

Monero is an option and as I understand it, they can't go after the miners because the miners don't know what they are mining but they can go after the exchanges this time because they are also paying taxes and nearly all of them enforcing the KYC rules which kills the purpose of owning monero in the first place.

Which would be the point where people would start bypassing KYC and migrate to decentralized exchanges.

Needless to say that these are all bareless speculations of ours.

[LoyceV]

The problem is if pools ever manage to reorg for the sake of censoring, which, as I had outlined there, would be the day to abandon Bitcoin.

I'd say that would be the day to abandon pools

Pools are central point of failures, I get it. But, Bitcoin is decentralized. If a pool is commanded to censor a transaction, then it is a matter of time until another pool will mine it. Even if 99% of the hash rate belongs to pro-censorship pools, Bitcoin will still be censorship resistant, because 1 out of the 100 mined blocks will contain all the previously ignored / censored transactions.

In this scenario, it would be trivially easy for the 99% to ignore that one block in a hundred that included the transaction they don't want. It doesn't even cost them anything missing the block, since the difficulty will be based on their 99% of the hash rate instead of the full 100%. They'll make up for the missing block the next 2 weeks.

[mrust_mobile]

Monero is an option and as I understand it, they can't go after the miners because the miners don't know what they are mining but they can go after the exchanges this time because they are also paying taxes and nearly all of them enforcing the KYC rules which kills the purpose of owning monero in the first place.

Which would be the point where people would start bypassing KYC and migrate to decentralized exchanges.

How are those decentralized exchanges gonna cash you out without knowing your name and IBAN? People who do these transactions will be targeted this time. When people move to dex, the volume will skyrocket there. I don’t think you can get in and out so easily when that happens.