Standing Strong Against Unjust Attacks: A Call for Community Support

[JollyGood]

Personally, what I hope can be the outcome of that point is a way for blackjack-fun to clear their reputation and invalidate JPR's claim, both inside and outside this forum. One of the accusation by JPR is the validity of their license.

How would they (or any other online gaming website for that matter) be able to prove to a satisfactory level that will be accepted by most members here that they have indeed operated with appropriate licences at all times? When you click the Anjouan licence validator link it does not show the date the licence was issued yet it does confirm they licence is currently valid.

From my perspective, if they did not have a licence for the overlap period of the Curacao licence expiring and the Anjouan licence being issued, it is not that much of a big issue but them stating they had it and it turns out they did not have it is something that will damage their reputation and raise trust issues.

And man, JackpotRacer rings a bell in my head from years back.  He's been complaining about one thing or another (or it could just be this one thing) for a long time if I recall correctly.

He seems to be a serial complainer but I have been unable to work out his modus operandi.

[JackpotRacer]

Whatever they did with this, I don't believe they will publicly present the current situation here. Imagine if they said here that they haven't fixed the bug yet, wouldn't that encourage potential scammers to start abusing this bug?
Also, if they had solved the issue, I guess that they would have announced it officially because the avoidance of the answer can be interpreted differently.

The existence of the bug is already known because JackpotRacer made it public. If what he said is true, both he and at least one more person know how to abuse said bug to win a round of blackjack in an unfair way.

By not contradicting the existence of the bug, Blackjack.fun has, in a way, admitted that it does exist.
All software have bugs, and you can't prevent it. The way you deal with them is what counts. If Blackjack.fun allows people to make real-money wagers on a game that is buggy and can be exploited, we need to question their honesty. You just can't have that and not inform your players about it. The right course of action is fixing the bug asap and removing it from your game portfolio until that happens. Otherwise, you are dishonest because you are allowing your players to wager their money on a game that can be manipulated.     

Finally a very fair comment!

The bug was there and even Blackjack.fun admitted it as they banned me from playing and connecting to the games after players complained about me using this exploit. I have the proof in a DM where Blackjack.fun told me about the players complaining about me that I used this timer exploit. even they will say Yes they fixed it how can you check it? I could but I am not allowed to play. so ask yourself why don't they prove it that it is fixed? IMO they did not fix it as they could easily prove it if they fixed it. but still if they fixed it just let them prove it to their current and future customers.

the other postings till now are only brown nosed ones and signature show offs

And man, JackpotRacer rings a bell in my head from years back.  He's been complaining about one thing or another (or it could just be this one thing) for a long time if I recall correctly.  For some reason, I'm connecting his username with that altcoin RBIES that guaranteed a buyback price from its creators....but I haven't checked his post history yet. 

@The Sceptical Chymist
so read back and check who scammed and was scammed with the RBIES and you are welcome to apologize!

[Pmalek]

Finally a very fair comment!

Lol, knock it off! I was both on the praising and criticizing end of your comments in your scam accusation thread, remember? First your praised me for being the only one that pays attention and knows what they are talking about, then you called me a disappointment and signature spammer when I concluded that no scam happened. You need to stop determining someone's fairness based on if they agree with you or not.

Back to the case...

The bug was there and even Blackjack.fun admitted it as they banned me from playing and connecting to the games after players complained about me using this exploit. I have the proof in a DM where Blackjack.fun told me about the players complaining about me that I used this timer exploit. even they will say Yes they fixed it how can you check it? I could but I am not allowed to play. so ask yourself why don't they prove it that it is fixed? IMO they did not fix it as they could easily prove it if they fixed it. but still if they fixed it just let them prove it to their current and future customers.

Can you post the proof you have here? Screenshots can be faked, but still it would be interesting to see it.

Tell you what. Go and create a second account on Blackjack.fun. Try to use the timer exploit bug and show the community that it's still there. If you can do that, and it's obvious beyond any doubt that Blackjack.fun hosts games whose results can be manipulated, I will give them a negative rating, warning the community not to play the game in question until they fix it.

To be clear, is the bug you discovered present in real-money games? I don't remember if I asked that before. I am asking about games where I have to deposit my own money to participate? I don't care if it's some sort of beta/testing/fun more/demo games.

@Eva and Blackjack.Fun
Are you going to continue playing the I am blind and stupid game or are you going to shed some light on the possible vulnerabilities in your games?

[holydarkness]

[...]

Tell you what. Go and create a second account on Blackjack.fun. Try to use the timer exploit bug and show the community that it's still there. If you can do that, and it's obvious beyond any doubt that Blackjack.fun hosts games whose results can be manipulated, I will give them a negative rating, warning the community not to play the game in question until they fix it.

To get it out in the open, that will be a violation of their ToS. But I think if they gives permission, that "breach" can be an exception.

To be clear, is the bug you discovered present in real-money games? I don't remember if I asked that before. I am asking about games where I have to deposit my own money to participate? I don't care if it's some sort of beta/testing/fun more/demo games.

I don't think you've asked about that matter. And to answer, It's free tournaments with real "money" reward [mBTC, USDT, TRX], if I am not mistaken. The games and tournaments itself, is intended for beta testing.


Edit: then I thought, "mehh... why not dig a little?" And I jumped into JPR's posts. I think --unless I understand it wrongly-- my memory serves me correctly. Below is the complete post of JPR's on OP's thread that I think is the beginning of this issue, indicating that it's a free game.

@blackjack.fun

I love blackjack and blackjack tournaments and after playing a few freerolls I would like to give you some well-intentioned feedback. I know it is still in beta

I apologize if the points I will mention have already been made.

The rebet option should always be there and not just for a second.

Same for balance! I want to be able to see my balance during the tournament instead of having to leave the table to check the leaderboard

Next to the balance you could easily add the current rank of the leaderboard.

The split option you use is terrible as you only show one of the 2 splits. you should always show the 2 hands of the split.

Please let me tell you what happened to me a couple of times during the free roll tournaments. I would not mention it if it was a one-time glitch.

One time I was even the chip leader with about 8 minutes to go and then I could not bet any chips.
I tried all the chips but it did not help.
I did a hard refresh but it did not help.
Then I logged out and logged back in and again it did not help.

I would like to reiterate that the feedback is well-intentioned

another question I have is if you accept FUN Token as deposit?

cheers

And another,

Guys. Thank you for participating on our Freeroll tournaments.

[...]

great attitude as this is the way to go. beta is for bug fixing and feedback is most important

good luck and cheers

[Pmalek]

To get it out in the open, that will be a violation of their ToS. But I think if they gives permission, that "breach" can be an exception.

9/10 casinos don't allow multiple accounts, but the purpose of doing the test is to see whether or not the game in question is vulnerable to manipulation and thus doesn't deserve to go live and accept real money wagers.

I don't think you've asked about that matter. And to answer, It's free tournaments with real "money" reward [mBTC, USDT, TRX], if I am not mistaken. The games and tournaments itself, is intended for beta testing.

In that case, it's the lesser of two evils. Even though you might cheat someone out of their reward, they didn't lose the money they came to the casino with. That is all assuming we aren't speaking of real-money wagers, and I am not sure we are. Blackjack.Fun has a cashier section. You can generate addresses and deposit to them. The question now is, can those real funds be used to play the problematic games? Is it just me or has Blackjack.Fun been in a beta phase forever? 

[holydarkness]

To get it out in the open, that will be a violation of their ToS. But I think if they gives permission, that "breach" can be an exception.

9/10 casinos don't allow multiple accounts, but the purpose of doing the test is to see whether or not the game in question is vulnerable to manipulation and thus doesn't deserve to go live and accept real money wagers.

I don't think you've asked about that matter. And to answer, It's free tournaments with real "money" reward [mBTC, USDT, TRX], if I am not mistaken. The games and tournaments itself, is intended for beta testing.

In that case, it's the lesser of two evils. Even though you might cheat someone out of their reward, they didn't lose the money they came to the casino with. That is all assuming we aren't speaking of real-money wagers, and I am not sure we are. Blackjack.Fun has a cashier section. You can generate addresses and deposit to them. The question now is, can those real funds be used to play the problematic games? Is it just me or has Blackjack.Fun been in a beta phase forever? 

I don't think I understand how is this a concept of the lesser of two evils. Unless I understand things wrongly, JPR entered a freeroll games intended for beta testing, where the players was looking for bugs and reported them to the BJF to be fixed, thus improving the system security and gaming experience once it's launched.

JPR met someone who exploited a bug [his encounter was what he complained above], got annoyed and tried to find the bug. Once he found and be sure of it, instead of reporting it to the admin, he choose to use the knowledge to retaliate to the user who wronged him in the first place, over and over, in a way of passive-aggresively telling that user that he knows about the exploit too and was giving that user a taste of his own medicine, disregarding the bad experience other users at the table encountered due to this retaliation.

Users on the table reported JPR to their admin, and long story short, he got banned. And here we are. Anyone is free to correct me if I understand things wrongly, though.

[JollyGood]

In the meantime, where is the Blackjack.fun forum representative Eva when it comes to posting here? This thread was created by her to repel against what she cited as unfair/unjust attacks on the reputation of the casino yet she has been largely absent from the conversation including not addressing questions that some of the community sincerely feel should have been answered by now.

[Pmalek]

I don't think I understand how is this a concept of the lesser of two evils. Unless I understand things wrongly...

I wasn't talking about JackpotRacer's actions. I was talking about the bug in Blackjack.Fun's game that allows the outcome to be manipulated. It's a lesser evil if that bug is present in a beta environment where you aren't depositing and playing with your own money. It would be worse if someone could use the bug against you in a real-money game where you deposited your own money. Imagine you are playing the game and it looks like you will win, but due to a bug they haven't fixed, you lose the round?

In the meantime, where is the Blackjack.fun forum representative Eva when it comes to posting here? This thread was created by her to repel against what she cited as unfair/unjust attacks on the reputation of the casino yet she has been largely absent from the conversation including not addressing questions that some of the community sincerely feel should have been answered by now.

If I can venture a guess, she doesn't like the direction the thread has taken. It's no longer just about JackpotRacer's wrongdoings, which have already been established, it's also about whether or not the casino and the people running it are capable of hosting a fair game that can't be cheated by those who know how to.

[JollyGood]

That is similar to what I was beginning to think. It is safe to put aside anything related to JackpotRacer and his claims against blackjack.fun (at least until/unless further evidence is put forward or more allegations are made).

Therefore the logical aspect of this thread has to be the outstanding questions related to their operations.

To my knowledge, they have not had any serious scam allegations made against them therefore (as I mentioned before) even if there was an issue where the Curacao licence might have expired and the Anjouan licence might have started, it would not be as serious an issue as them stating they had the licence at all times but it turns out they were not covered. If that happened it will damage their reputation and could raise trust issues.

Regarding the provably fair questions, we are all in the dark until/unless she replies.

In the meantime, where is the Blackjack.fun forum representative Eva when it comes to posting here? This thread was created by her to repel against what she cited as unfair/unjust attacks on the reputation of the casino yet she has been largely absent from the conversation including not addressing questions that some of the community sincerely feel should have been answered by now.

If I can venture a guess, she doesn't like the direction the thread has taken. It's no longer just about JackpotRacer's wrongdoings, which have already been established, it's also about whether or not the casino and the people running it are capable of hosting a fair game that can't be cheated by those who know how to.

[Timelord2067]

I seem to recall you bad-mouthing others (myself included) in the past - now you cry foul?

Really?

[Pmalek]

It is safe to put aside anything related to JackpotRacer and his claims against blackjack.fun (at least until/unless further evidence is put forward or more allegations are made).

No scam has happened so that subject is off the table for me.

To my knowledge, they have not had any serious scam allegations made against them therefore (as I mentioned before) even if there was an issue where the Curacao licence might have expired and the Anjouan licence might have started, it would not be as serious an issue as them stating they had the licence at all all times but it turns out they were not covered.

I consider this a secondary importance. A casino and the people running it can be trustworthy even if their business is unlicensed and vice versa. It doesn't look good if they are lying about it or showing the wrong one (which was the case here), but if they are not stealing from and scamming their players, then it's not a problem.

The area where JackpotRacer could be useful is if he can prove that the casino is (still) running games that can easily be manipulated. That's something the community should know about and decide for themselves if they want to trust such a casino with their money. 

[JollyGood]

A list of affected games would be a good start as it would allows others to go and check for themselves. If there was a bug to exploit after it was reported, surely it would show negligent conduct by the blackjack.fun team if they did not find a way to fix it. The silence from blackjack.fun really does not help the situation.

The area where JackpotRacer could be useful is if he can prove that the casino is (still) running games that can easily be manipulated. That's something the community should know about and decide for themselves if they want to trust such a casino with their money. 

[holydarkness]

[...]

Regarding the provably fair questions, we are all in the dark until/unless she replies.

I thought this part was partially covered by khaled0111, the Provably Fair method that they provide are only applicable for their in-house game. Games from other providers are... somewhat questionable.

If this is true, I think they should make a clear distinction, a different page or even a simple border in their page separating their PF game and the ones that can't be verified.

[JollyGood]

I welcome the comments from all members and those that are answering (correctly no doubt) questions posed to blackjack.fun but until they themselves clarify the situation there will be uncertainty. If what was written is true, blackjack.fun (Eva) should confirm it.

The latter part of your post is the best way to remedy the situation on their website, I have previously asked Eva about whether anything can be done to advise players about which games are and are not provably fair as the image on the website gives the impression all the games are.

Eva (blackjack.fun forum representative) has logged in today yet her last post was made on 23rd February. It is a shame she is not even posting here if just to state the questions will be answered when their owners provide a reply. The silence does not reflect well on them.

[...]

Regarding the provably fair questions, we are all in the dark until/unless she replies.

I thought this part was partially covered by khaled0111, the Provably Fair method that they provide are only applicable for their in-house game. Games from other providers are... somewhat questionable.

If this is true, I think they should make a clear distinction, a different page or even a simple border in their page separating their PF game and the ones that can't be verified.

[blackjack.fun]

Hello, everyone!

I'm quickly catching up with everything here. Have I missed any unanswered questions? It was suggested by you guys to make a post, and while our time is limited, I'm eager to answer all queries. Some of the questions about licenses have been covered already. Our legal department has already provided responses as well. It's not a matter of me having a choice over it. The decisions are based on legal considerations, and we're following the guidance provided by them. The question regarding provably fair has also been addressed. Questions about our Blackjack Tournaments and bugs are on the table, but rest assured, nobody should be concerned as no one is taking any risks in this stage. The entire process is still in development. The entire concept is about collaboratively building Blackjack Tournaments with our community. It's completely acceptable to have an unfinished product with bugs at this stage—it's the core of the idea. Our aim is to peacefully construct our project with our community without any external dramas.

Eva

[JackpotRacer]

Hello, everyone!

I'm quickly catching up with everything here. Have I missed any unanswered questions? It was suggested by you guys to make a post, and while our time is limited, I'm eager to answer all queries. Some of the questions about licenses have been covered already. Our legal department has already provided responses as well. It's not a matter of me having a choice over it. The decisions are based on legal considerations, and we're following the guidance provided by them. The question regarding provably fair has also been addressed. Questions about our Blackjack Tournaments and bugs are on the table, but rest assured, nobody should be concerned as no one is taking any risks in this stage. The entire process is still in development. The entire concept is about collaboratively building Blackjack Tournaments with our community. It's completely acceptable to have an unfinished product with bugs at this stage—it's the core of the idea. Our aim is to peacefully construct our project with our community without any external dramas.

Eva

As always, talking a lot and saying nothing

what about the forced bonus on your customers?

[blackjack.fun]

As always, talking a lot and saying nothing

what about the forced bonus on your customers?

Ah, this is how the "Ignore" function works. Okay, I've activated it now. It was suggested a long time ago already.

[JollyGood]

I honestly am astounded at what I am reading from you Eva because if you are catching up you would have read the list of questions and concerns and answered them accordingly.

Before asking any other questions related to licences or anything else, please answer these three questions (though 1 and 2 could overlap in your answers):

1- kindly explain why there is a provably fair logo on the blackjack.fun website when not all of the games are provably fair
2- kindly explain if you think it appropriate for blackjack.fun to display that provably fair logo when not all of the games are provably fair
3- kindly explain what you intend to do about displaying the misleading provably fair logo

Hello, everyone!

I'm quickly catching up with everything here. Have I missed any unanswered questions? It was suggested by you guys to make a post, and while our time is limited, I'm eager to answer all queries. Some of the questions about licenses have been covered already. Our legal department has already provided responses as well. It's not a matter of me having a choice over it. The decisions are based on legal considerations, and we're following the guidance provided by them. The question regarding provably fair has also been addressed. Questions about our Blackjack Tournaments and bugs are on the table, but rest assured, nobody should be concerned as no one is taking any risks in this stage. The entire process is still in development. The entire concept is about collaboratively building Blackjack Tournaments with our community. It's completely acceptable to have an unfinished product with bugs at this stage—it's the core of the idea. Our aim is to peacefully construct our project with our community without any external dramas.

Eva

[blackjack.fun]

I honestly am astounded at what I am reading from you Eva because if you are catching up you would have read the list of questions and concerns and answered them accordingly.

Before asking any other questions related to licences or anything else, please answer these three questions (though 1 and 2 could overlap in your answers):

1- kindly explain why there is a provably fair logo on the blackjack.fun website when not all of the games are provably fair
2- kindly explain if you think it appropriate for blackjack.fun to display that provably fair logo when not all of the games are provably fair
3- kindly explain what you intend to do about displaying the misleading provably fair logo

Hello, everyone!

I'm quickly catching up with everything here. Have I missed any unanswered questions? It was suggested by you guys to make a post, and while our time is limited, I'm eager to answer all queries. Some of the questions about licenses have been covered already. Our legal department has already provided responses as well. It's not a matter of me having a choice over it. The decisions are based on legal considerations, and we're following the guidance provided by them. The question regarding provably fair has also been addressed. Questions about our Blackjack Tournaments and bugs are on the table, but rest assured, nobody should be concerned as no one is taking any risks in this stage. The entire process is still in development. The entire concept is about collaboratively building Blackjack Tournaments with our community. It's completely acceptable to have an unfinished product with bugs at this stage—it's the core of the idea. Our aim is to peacefully construct our project with our community without any external dramas.

Eva

I will leave a note for the UX team regarding this issue, so they can work on finding a solution to ensure that the small sign is not misleading.

[JackpotRacer]

As always, talking a lot and saying nothing

what about the forced bonus on your customers?

Ah, this is how the "Ignore" function works. Okay, I've activated it now. It was suggested a long time ago already.

Surely you will ignore legit questions!

you should read this posting (new)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5106215.msg63754300#msg63754300

here is the text in full and it is very Spot On!

of the many tips on bad signs that you should pay close attention when using or wanting to use a site and the level of bonus given and whether the bonus is constantly being offered, this is because a casino is in bankruptcy and the owner wants to disappear with the people's money is constantly offering bonuses for people to deposit money and then it disappears with people's money, I hope this is not the case with Blackjack.fun. When I saw about this bonus I was wondering what was the point in offering bonuses to all members, but a bonus where the requirements are impossible to meet? In terms of marketing to bring customers back, I don't see how this action would entice people to return to the casino

It is known that most people like bonuses, but bonuses that they can withdraw, I wonder why casinos don't change their strategies regarding bonuses, instead of placing absurd requirements they could explore options in which the casino could win a lot and the customer could also win, something like offering a bonus for example to a person who deposits 10$ plays and loses everything and wins 2$, in other words the bonus would be that when the person deposits, plays and loses everything they could win a bonus of 20% of the amount she deposited and could withdraw this amount without any conditions, most players would use this same bonus amount to continue playing and this would attract people because at the end of the day the casino would be the one that would earn the most, rather than talking about a bonus in which no one can claim