Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[Tamaperdana]

It is not a new thing that buying bitcoin for a long term is the key success for an investors who has the understanding of bitcoin investment. And the subject makes.it clear for everyone here. It is to buy and it is to sell. In investment you buy and keep it for the period not time which is still low and once it is up to the time you will like to sell them you sell it and take your profits and this is the time of selling. Even if not all it is better to taste the $99k to the $100k then continue again for another All Time High for a long term investment. Investment should be on stages. And I think this is one of the stages to sell. Though it is not for all but those who like to.

Even though currently the price has almost reached 100K, for some people this price is not the main goal. Because bitcoin investment is an excellent store of value asset, many people who invest in bitcoin are not only looking for fiat profits, but the main factor is that bitcoin is an excellent store of value. So if you are a trader, maybe selling bitcoin right now is quite appropriate. But I won't do that, because I invested in bitcoin for a long time, so selling bitcoin now is the same as ruining my original mission.

[Proty]

Well you can do whatever you fells like but it is wrong to say that this is the right time to sell without putting into consideration the people you are addressing that majority are barely a year old in there bit oin accumulation journey which to me the statement is misleading even if you have reach your investment timeline i would not advise anyone to sell off all his bitcoin with false hope of buying back at $30k ,what even makes you feel that bitcoin will dip to $30k and this makes me wonder if you know the potential of bitcoin infact the recent price should be a motivation to all to focus on accumulating more bitcoin and hold for 8-10yrs or more.however we are all entitled to make our own decisions as regards to our investment.

I have never changed my mind, this is one of the best time to sell. Do you know how many people were waiting for this period. I also predicted that bitcoin will hit $100k in 2028 but here it is, so it is good to sell now and rebuy again when the price goes down. And you know how many people want to buy bitcoin that I have asked them to pause? I don't like risking someone money. I discovered that your idea or understanding of this discussion is very narrow. You are talking about 8-10 years. What if the people that I am also asking to sell invested for more than those years you are talking about. If you bought bitcoin in the year 2022 when bitcoin was $15k, and now the price is $100k. Many forum users were waiting for this period. Though it will still go up. And definitely it will still come down from next. Bitcoin price of bearand bull run is 4 years interval and this is the period of bull run. You can go and read this thread to understand some things. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5520206.0

I understand your purpose of this communication, it is for... J.J is the father of long term investment and he has a target. Do you know his target her price? No. If J.J has a target in his investment then you need to have too. Many forum users targeted $100k and I have been seeing it since when I came to the forum.

What is your target in bitcoin investment? Don't imitate others because we have different financial dealing. The matter you investment you must sell one day.

[

Firstly, am not targeting price because am not fucking around with trading like you and you are misleading those you are telling to wait that this is not the time to invest but rather time to sell, if you know the potential of bitcoin you will never dish out this kind of advise to anyone. Secondly, I have an investment timeline which is to accumulate bitcoin in the 8-10yrs so my target is long-term investment in bitcoin, so my focus right now is on continuous accumulation of bitcoin and not to be targeting any particular price. Lastly, majority are in this forum to learn from experience members who has been accumulating bitcoin for years so I see nothing wrong in practicalising whatsoever we have learnt and moreover we are all free to do whatever we feel like and J. J  not forcing anyone to imitate his long-term investment ideas but rather members see the light in it and decided to keyin to it

[JayJuanGee]

It is not a new thing that buying bitcoin for a long term is the key success for an investors who has the understanding of bitcoin investment. And the subject makes.it clear for everyone here. It is to buy and it is to sell. In investment you buy and keep it for the period not time which is still low and once it is up to the time you will like to sell them you sell it and take your profits and this is the time of selling. Even if not all it is better to taste the $99k to the $100k then continue again for another All Time High for a long term investment. Investment should be on stages. And I think this is one of the stages to sell. Though it is not for all but those who like to.

Well, you have not even been in bitcoin for a whole cycle and you are considering yourself to be in a selling stage?..   You have ONLY been here for 3 years, so I have difficulties imagining that you would be in selling stage, unless you front loaded your investment.  Also you are using the term investment, but surely you seem to not really understand that you are describing how to manage your BTC holdings in terms of trading, especially if you are thinking that you are going to be able to buy back cheaper, which might not even be possible... but hey whatever, you do you in terms of what seems to be trading rather than investing, and hopefully you can either clarify or possibly even better stop referring to yourself as an investor, since you seem to be using the term wrong, especially when referring to bitcoin.  Good luck with your sales.. you likely are going to need it and you are merely gambling if you think that you are going to be able to buy back more bitcoin with such a selling strategy.

Well i would like to know that this not the time to sell rather we should focus more on continuous accumulation of bitcoin rather than merely getting profit out of dollar since dollar does dont store value

Well it is a personal choice. And it is your funds, you can do whatever pleases you. But and sell is always involved in the investment and trading. Assuming you bought as the rate of $16k and $20k and now it is $100k and after this period probably from next year it would go back to $30k or below. Who lose? Investment is all about calculation. Oh Yes bitcoin will definitely rise to $400k but if you sell it as the time of $100k and buy back at the time of $30k who make the profit? And when you rebuy, you can keep it for as long as you want until the price hit your target. But if this bull is not your target then you can still continue hodling it because it is your investment and you know what you are doing. Good luck for the investment.

Well you can do whatever you fells like but it is wrong to say that this is the right time to sell without putting into consideration the people you are addressing that majority are barely a year old in there bitcoin accumulation journey which to me the statement is misleading and also you fail to understand that we all have our investment timeline, even if you have reach your investment timeline i would not advise anyone to sell off all his bitcoin with false hope of buying back at $30k ,what even makes you feel that bitcoin will dip to $30k and this speculation of yours makes me wonder if you know the potential of bitcoin infact the recent price should be a motivation to all investor to focus on accumulating more bitcoin and hold for 8-10yrs or more.however we are all entitled to make our own decisions/ choices as regards to our investment.

Yep.  Agbe seems to be living in a fantasy (possibly a dollar worshiping fantasy in which he cannot resist locking in his dollar profits), and it surely is possible that we will never see BTC prices below $70k ever again.. and bitcoin prices are not guaranteed to dip, even if they went up a lot.. so even sub $80k or sub $90k might not happen again... and sure the higher the price, the more likely the bitcoin price will drop below that, but it is far from guaranteed to be trying to sell BTC in0 order to buy back cheaper.

[edited out]

I have never changed my mind, this is one of the best time to sell. Do you know how many people were waiting for this period. I also predicted that bitcoin will hit $100k in 2028 but here it is, so it is good to sell now and rebuy again when the price goes down.

Seems premature to sell and presumptuous to believe that the BTC price will go down from here, but whatever, you can do what you like, even if it is a bit dumb.  And, sure, you are the one who has to live with the consequences of your choice - no matter what it is that you choose.

And you know how many people want to buy bitcoin that I have asked them to pause?

Hopefully you are not giving bad advice.  Surely waiting is not a very good investment strategy when it comes to bitcoin, especially for someone who does not have any and probably even for most people who don't have close than enough.. so on the face, it seems that you are giving bad advice and letting MSTR  and various big companies, governments and smarter people buy the bitcoin while you lead people to believe that waiting is a good investment strategy.  Your dumb advice is probably even doing a greater disservice to poor people since bitcoin is one of the best, if not the best investment out there that is accessible to anyone.. but instead you are advising them to wait.. Go figure?

I don't like risking someone money.

Probably the risk of being a low coiner/no coiner is greater than buying BTC.. but whatever, you can believe whatever you like.. funny you are so dumb after nearly 3 years registered on the forum.

I discovered that your idea or understanding of this discussion is very narrow. You are talking about 8-10 years. What if the people that I am also asking to sell invested for more than those years you are talking about. If you bought bitcoin in the year 2022 when bitcoin was $15k, and now the price is $100k. Many forum users were waiting for this period. Though it will still go up. And definitely it will still come down from next. Bitcoin price of bearand bull run is 4 years interval and this is the period of bull run. You can go and read this thread to understand some things. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5520206.0

I understand your purpose of this communication, it is for... J.J is the father of long term investment and he has a target. Do you know his target her price? No. If J.J has a target in his investment then you need to have too. Many forum users targeted $100k and I have been seeing it since when I came to the forum.

What is your target in bitcoin investment? Don't imitate others because we have different financial dealing. The matter you investment you must sell one day.

You must be misreading me if you have concluded that any kind of target that I have had in bitcoin would convert me from accumulating into bitcoin and then into trading it or selling it.

Sure, it is true that the more BTC that any of us get, then the more options that we end up having, which could include selling some of our BTC or it could also involve accumulating less or buying on dips rather than ongoing and consistent DCA buying of BTC.

Each of us has to figure out how we might transition from one angle of our bitcoin investment journey into another, and truly I would find it to be problematic to be suggesting that someone might accumulate $2 million in bitcoin, and then all of a sudden convert that into cash or some other kind of an asset, when bitcoin remains amongst the best, if not the best place to keep value, so why would someone want to spend 4-10 years or more. .. or even 20 years building up his bitcoin stash and then to sell it all when it reaches his target value.. that seems a bit rash.. and also erroneous, and also a kind of mistake that a lot of people make in their thinking when they cannot recognize and appreciate the difference between investing and trading., so why would we invest and then all of a sudden go into a trading mindset and fuck up all the BTC stash we had been building?  Does that make sense?

Surely the reason for describing a 4-10 year investment timeline or more is to attempt to be somewhat flexible in regards to accounting for minimum investment timelines, so someone planning to invest  in bitcoin should have at least 4 years,  and the ONLY reason that a 4 year investment timeline would be acceptable would be someone who has a short timeline for age and/or health kinds of considerations... not merely because they were wanting to trade on a longer timeline (sure a lot of traders will trade within a year or maybe within a few years, but you do not get out of the trading mindset and/or approach merely because your timeline happens to be 4 years).  

Also, imagine that most people do not tend to have very much savings or investments built up, so when they come to bitcoin, they may well be buying for at least 4 years just to build up their BTC stash, and so if they are investing $100 per week then it may well be the case that their earliest purchases are more in profits than their later purchases, yet at the same time during that whole 4-year period BTC prices had likely fluctuated quite a bit so they have purchases of BTC with a variety of costs and quantities spread out through the period, and even their purchases in the prior year or two had ONLY been within their BTC portfolio for a very short period of time, so with a proper investment mindset, those later BTC purchases would not even be eligible for any kind of sale until they met the minimum of at least 4 years of the timeline of being in the BTC portfolio.

Of course, guys can create whatever rules they want and manage their BTC holdings any way that they want, and they can also break their own rules or change their mind about what they are going to do, yet hopefully, people recognize that there is some value in regards to why some of us might have come to bitcoin and over time figured out that we want to have it as our long term investment that is likely going to give us more and more options down the road, such as 4-10 years or longer, yet we still have to figure out ways to customize not only our various ways of accumulating bitcoin during our earliest years of BTC accumulation, but also figure out what stages we are at during various points along the way that might involve tweaking some of our strategies to account that we might advance to later stages of accumulation and then maybe later advance to our maintenance stage and then later to our liquidation stage.. Yet in each of these stages, it would also seem short sighted to convert from an investor to a trader or a gamble, even though the larger our BTC stash, then the more options that we likely would have to divide up portions of our BTC stash and use the value of various parts of our BTC stash in different kinds of ways.. that could also allow for trading some of it.. or selling some of it on the way up.... or other kinds of sustainable withdrawal practices that might be based on price and/or based on time, yet it seems that any of us should want to get to a high enough level of BTC accumulation and even over-accumulation before starting to sell any of is or to engage in  sustainable withdrawal strategies, whether price-based and/or time-based.

[edited out]

if this were in altcointalk I would have given you -1. Because you don't understand my point and just dash in. Didn't you read the Word "Assuming"? This thread people are just looking for merits so they don't want it understand another thing than long term investment. Most of you don't even have any bitcoin investment in anywhere. I have invested in bitcoin and I know how much bitcoin I have gotten.

For sure, it is fair that you are the one to assess your own quantity of BTC and how to manage it, so sometimes we might not know the details of other forum members, either how much BTC they had accumulated nor how long they had been accumulating it, unless they disclose some of those details, and many times we like to not necessarily disclose details of our exact BTC holdings, so frequently we will talk about BTC holdings in terms of hypotheticals that might still shed light on points that we might be trying to make... so yeah even with you, it could make a difference if you had been accumulating longer than your BTC forum registration date, or maybe if you engaged in various mixed kinds of BTC accumulation strategies at various points in time, and you could have started out whimpy and turned more aggressive, or maybe you started out more aggressive and then turned more whimpy.  Maybe you employed pure DCA or maybe you mixed in lump sum buying and buying on the dip.  Also you could have had changes in the way that you manage your cashflow that could have had contributed to the ways that you had been able to accumulate BTC.  We cannot necessarily know the places where guys might have had been successful in their BTC accumulation or where they might have had challenges and/or failures, unless they might describe some of those areas, and surely your current assertion @Agbe that you think this is a selling point in terms of where BTC is at seems quite superficial since BTC price performance is only one of the 9 individual factors that any of us should be considering.

By the way, a lot of folks getting worked up about the BTC price getting close to or crossing over $100k does not mean that it is even close to a place that any normie should be selling or holding off on buying.. so there are likely a lot of errors with the guys who are obsessed with these kinds of round numbers and think that they should be greatly modifying their BTC accumulation/maintenance approach around such hyped-up numbers.. which could end up contributing to their making wrong choices... but yeah, of course, each person has to decide for himself what to do, and it should be easier for someone who already has BTC to know what to do, yet it is also true that a guy's having BTC is not automatically going to lead him to a better decision than someone who does not.. even though it still is the case that an overwhelming majority of normies either don't have any BTC at all or they have way smaller amounts of BTC than they should have.. so whatever do what you like, if you think that it is smart to be selling your BTC that presumptively took you three hard-fought years to accumulate... and then turn yourself into a no coiner or a low coiner.. and surely there are a lot of those who are bitter when they sell too many too soon, but it might take several years for those who sell too many too soon to figure out their mistake.

Well i would like to know that this not the time to sell rather we should focus more on continuous accumulation of bitcoin rather than merely getting profit out of dollar since dollar does dont store value

Well it is a personal choice. And it is your funds, you can do whatever pleases you. But and sell is always involved in the investment and trading. Assuming you bought as the rate of $16k and $20k and now it is $100k and after this period probably from next year it would go back to $30k or below. Who lose? Investment is all about calculation. Oh Yes bitcoin will definitely rise to $400k but if you sell it as the time of $100k and buy back at the time of $30k who make the profit? And when you rebuy, you can keep it for as long as you want until the price hit your target. But if this bull is not your target then you can still continue hodling it because it is your investment and you know what you are doing. Good luck for the investment.

Bitcoin investment is not all about investing during the bear market and sell during the bull run, how long will you keep on repeating this over and over again because of dollar gain and you forget that we are investing in bitcoin for long-term purpose which should be from at least 10-12 years and above. At the end when we are old, what will matter is how many bitcoin were you able to accumulate all through your accumulation phase because it is the size of your portfolio that will determine the profit in future when bitcoin price will reach 500k or more.

I largely agree with your points Sim_card, yet there is likely going to be variation in terms of the timeline for guys and also guys who come to bitcoin with a lot of capital and are able to front load into bitcoin may well have quite different circumstances from someone who is brand new to bitcoin and brand new to investing in which traditionally it may well take a normal person 30-40 years to build up an investment portfolio, yet with bitcoin he is hoping to cut down the investment timeline to get to some financial strength kind of a place in terms of the value of the various holdings in his investment portfolio whether that is ONLY including bitcoin and cash or if he might have other assets and/or currencies and/or forms of income that come from the in his investment portfolio that he ends up building up over many years.

We need to be careful in regards to assuming too much about the circumstances of other guys, even though surely our presumptions would be correct that so many normies do not tend to have much savings/investments so frequently it can be a struggle that even takes a whole cycle or more for them to really get into the habit of saving/investing, building up better cashflow management practices and then start to put themselves into stronger financial (and thus psychological) circumstances... but it is still going to vary in regards to staring point, including some guys further along in their having their shit together as compared with others, and then some guys might also have good luck on their side and other guys have bad luck, or they make mistakes that might end up playing out in positive or negative ways for them... which affects their BTC investment journey and sometimes takes some guys out of the game when they are not employing good practices (which is also their choice - even though sometimes they might not realize the extent of some of their mistakes until several years later).

Don't forget that there's what we call the compounding effect of your portfolio, whereby your bitcoin investment will generate profits and that profit will be added to your portfolio and the new size of your portfolio will also generate more profits and so on. When you sell within a short time, you will miss all these benefits. If you sell your bitcoin and the price didn't dip to your expected price, it means that you will start waiting till bitcoin reaches 30k, what if bitcoin didn't reach 30k, it means that you have missed out and might not buy again because you have terminated your bitcoin investment and your expectations didn't come through.

It is easy to sell buy very hard to accumulate for long time, so why do you want to waste all the time that you have put together to build your portfolio by selling too soon because you are carried away with little profit. You bought bitcoin at 16k, and now you are expecting to buy at 30k which  I don't know if it's possible. Don't you see that you are the one losing here because you will not be able to buy bitcoin at 16k again. It will be wise if you forget about selling and continue building your bitcoin portfolio for the future, so you will reap bountifully when you are old. Investment should also be there no matter how long it takes. Bitcoin is precious to sell now because it will be better in the future.

Selling to buy back means that you haven't reached your bitcoin goal and it's a wrong approach. However, if you have reached your bitcoin goal, and you feel that you have more than enough Bitcoin in your portfolio, it better you take profit once in a while in a way that it will not affect your bitcoin investment. If you sell all your investment to buy back and an unforseen circumstance comes around, you will use the money to solve that problem before the price of bitcoin dips to 30k as you hope.

These are good points too, and surely it can be difficult for guys to really recognize and appreciate the value of just ongoingly buying BTC for at least a whole cycle or two just to get to a better place and then to reassess where they are at after a certain amount of ongoing and persistent buying of BTC... which may well be that their quantity of BTC and its value ends up giving a lot more options and informs the ways to possibly tweak any of their strategies... It can be really difficult to help anyone to help themselves because they end up getting into a less focused kind of mindset, and even the guy who had been accumulating bitcoin for nearly 3 years, even if he started at the top of the 2021 BTC price cycle would likely be in a decently good place right now, perhaps with an average cost per BTC around $30k-ish.. and so maybe they have not quite done two compoundings, yet.. but still there is some value that seems to come with staying focused and letting time work to our favors without getting caught up in the noise of trying to trade something that may or may not work and surely brings a lot less certainty than someone who continues to stack BTC.

And, even doing all of the right things is not guaranteed to pay off, which might be part of the reason that many of us are more likely to become more convicted in our conviction to invest in bitcoin when we consistently continue to buy it and we consistently continue to study it so that we might consider if their might be ways that we can supplement our BTC accumulation strategy in solid and good practice kinds of ways.

Bitcoin investment is not all about investing during the bear market and sell during the bull run, how long will you keep on repeating this over and over again because of dollar gain and you forget that we are investing in bitcoin for long-term purpose which should be from at least 10-12 years and above. At the end when we are old, what will matter is how many bitcoin were you able to accumulate all through your accumulation phase because it is the size of your portfolio that will determine the profit in future when bitcoin price will reach 500k or more.

Please can you define what is " Bear Market and Bull Market"?  Apart from long term investment you guys know, is there any other term again? No. Oh yes I am repeating that because they are key investinh period to fill up the portfolio. I really don't know if you understand bitcoin investment. Bitcoin has two major investments plan either in the bear market time to fill the portfolio and sell it it at the targeted price whether long or short. Depends ony financial capacity. I am a core investor of bitcoin and that is why I am repeating it time without number. And as it is when the Market enter Bear Market. I will refill the portfolio well. I don't advise people to invest in the bull market if the person is interested only in the DCA method then no problem. My investment target was $100k and now I am about to sell. From all the comments ni have received from you guys today. You don't understand bitcoin investment but copycat comments. Practical make perfect. I am a practical investor and I didn't come here to just make come for you guys to... But to tell you how bitcoin investment is all about.

As I said everyone has their investment plan (target). If yours was s 30 years no problem. I started my investment in 2022 and today I have making profit so I will sell and reinvest again. That how I do mine. Good bye.

That is trading not investing, but you can call it what you like.  Hopefully others are not getting confused by your ways of defining things or even thinking that what you are doing is a good practice, even though sure it is possible that you might get lucky with your trade/gamble. We will see how it plays out for a guy with less than three years buying to sell everything at $100k and expecting to buy back $30k-ish.

Your numbers and your timeline is not even realistic and/or reasonable... but yeah, maybe you are happy with something like 3x to 5x profits depending on your entry price.. but you are not even taking profits, since you are expecting to be able to buy back lower.. .. think about 2025 being a bear market seems quite dumb.... if not retarded... especially for someone who supposedly had been studying BTC for 3-ish years...

Even considering your buy back target price of $30k-ish, sure it is possible that it could happen, but it may be less than 5% odds.. if we have a 200WMA that is currently at more than $41k and moving up at about $40 per day, and the 200-WMA would usually be considered the bottom for a bear market. .but may well not even get close to being touched during a bull market.. which means you would be lucky to get within 25% of the 200-WMA during a bull market, with any assumptions of the bull market ending merely because the BTC price is getting close to or reached $100k.. that seems a poor way of assessing what is the end of the bull market merely because you had a personal (and probably lame ass dumb) target that involved your fantasy about $100k having some kind of a meaningful significance.  It does not come off as a very learned approach (especially when it comes to something like bitcoin, which you seem to not understand even after having had been in it for nearly 3 years).

As I said everyone has their investment plan (target). If yours was s 30 years no problem. I started my investment in 2022 and today I have making profit so I will sell and reinvest again. That how I do mine. Good bye.

I wish I can hold for this long, it would be a blessing to see my investment survive 7 cycles. that would mean so much profits for me and I also wish I can be consistent with my DCA until then. Then my financial future would have been more than secured.

Of course, we cannot completely know what bitcoin is going to do, and even if we have some ideas about our abilities to continue to DCA, we cannot even be sure how effective our DCAs are going to be, yet it seems that we are likely going to have more and more options as we build our bitcoin holdings, and sure we might not even be done accumulating bitcoin for several cycles, yet, it seems to me that each cycle the amount of our BTC accumulation is likely going to inform us the extent to which we might want to or need to adjust our accumulation practices.

If your vision for becoming a bitcoin investor is clear and your character is strong, you have more chances to succeed in your investment journey more than a mere trader fucking around with bitcoin aimlessly across market trends. A lot of wise investors made good investment choices in the past to buy and hold, some are still making it even up until now, check this image below

source: X (former twitter)
Whales invested $283 million into BTC within the last 12 hours and would you come out boldly to tell me that these guys are not pure visionaries who have seen the potentials of BTC and are lump summing even in this price appreciation? of course they are the wise ones and people we should be looking up to and drawing inspiration from.  

I have my doubts about whether it is a good idea to follow these degenerate fucks who are ongoingly buying with a kind of FOMO and sentiment of being too late.. but whatever they can do what they like and pump the bags of us who had been buying for a long time prior to them.

So sure there are some good feelings to having had front run a lot of rich people, institutions and governments who seem to just be starting to recognize and appreciate bitcoin.

And, yeah, if we have not gotten any bitcoin, then we have no choice but to buy now and to continue buying, and even if we might have spent one or two years accumulating bitcoin, we still likely have not spent enough time accumulating bitcoin unless maybe we were able to front-load our BTC investment, but even then if we bought a bunch of bitcoin in 2022, we still might have average costs per BTC of $20k to $30k...so we still might need to wait before we start to withdraw from it.. to the extent that we feel that we have enough, too.. so it can be difficult to determine how much anyone else might have, so each of us has to figure out those matters for ourselves, yet it seems historically settling for 2x to 5x profits will also tend to result in selling too much too soon.. and better practices to mostly continue to hold most of the BTC and perhaps only sell small parts until it has had the value of compounding in value over a cycle or two or perhaps more.. depending on how these future cycles play out and the extent to which they might play out flatter than previous cycles.

Well you can do whatever you fells like but it is wrong to say that this is the right time to sell without putting into consideration the people you are addressing that majority are barely a year old in there bit oin accumulation journey which to me the statement is misleading even if you have reach your investment timeline i would not advise anyone to sell off all his bitcoin with false hope of buying back at $30k ,what even makes you feel that bitcoin will dip to $30k and this makes me wonder if you know the potential of bitcoin infact the recent price should be a motivation to all to focus on accumulating more bitcoin and hold for 8-10yrs or more.however we are all entitled to make our own decisions as regards to our investment.

I have never changed my mind, this is one of the best time to sell. Do you know how many people were waiting for this period. I also predicted that bitcoin will hit $100k in 2028 but here it is, so it is good to sell now and rebuy again when the price goes down. And you know how many people want to buy bitcoin that I have asked them to pause? I don't like risking someone money. I discovered that your idea or understanding of this discussion is very narrow. You are talking about 8-10 years. What if the people that I am also asking to sell invested for more than those years you are talking about. If you bought bitcoin in the year 2022 when bitcoin was $15k, and now the price is $100k. Many forum users were waiting for this period. Though it will still go up. And definitely it will still come down from next. Bitcoin price of bearand bull run is 4 years interval and this is the period of bull run. You can go and read this thread to understand some things. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5520206.0

I understand your purpose of this communication, it is for... J.J is the father of long term investment and he has a target. Do you know his target her price? No. If J.J has a target in his investment then you need to have too. Many forum users targeted $100k and I have been seeing it since when I came to the forum.

What is your target in bitcoin investment? Don't imitate others because we have different financial dealing. The matter you investment you must sell one day.

Firstly, am not targeting price because am not fucking around with trading like you and you are misleading those you are telling to wait that this is not the time to invest but rather time to sell, if you know the potential of bitcoin you will never dish out this kind of advise to anyone. Secondly, I have an investment timeline which is to accumulate bitcoin in the 8-10yrs so my target is long-term investment in bitcoin, so my focus right now is on continuous accumulation of bitcoin and not to be targeting any particular price. Lastly, majority are in this forum to learn from experience members who has been accumulating bitcoin for years so I see nothing wrong in practicalising whatsoever we have learnt and moreover we are all free to do whatever we feel like and J. J  not forcing anyone to imitate his long-term investment ideas but rather members see the light in it and decided to keyin to it

Agbe seems to have had mis-described some of the ideas that I have in regards to why any of us might create target prices for ourselves and then what we might do as a result of reaching our target prices, and surely I have never proclaimed that reaching a target price means selling all or most of our BTC, yet reaching a target level of BTC accumulation could inform any of us regarding if we might tweak our strategies, whether accumulation strategies or other aspects of dealing with our BTC maintenance or other aspects of our cashflow management, including considering if we might want to make adjustments to the kinds of assets that we are invested into.. to the extent that we might not have already been going beyond bitcoin and cash.

Even though spot BTC price is going to be a factor for any bitcoin that we might buy or sell at any given time, I have frequently been motivated by valuation of BTC holdings based on the 200-WMA, which seems to be a way of attempting to measure bottom prices, but also allowing any of us to consider the extent to which we have reached enough BTC when we are valuating our BTC as compared with any other assets or currencies that we might hold, including if we might consider if some kind of a sustainable withdrawal based on price or based on time might be justifiable. .and also sometimes we can get into variations of our own management of our BTC holdings based on our assessments about whether we have enough or more than enough BTC...so yeah, any selling that I suggest to be prudent is not with any assumption or presumption of being able to buy back cheaper (even if the BTC price might end up dropping and then contributing to our buying BTC back, from my perspective, the selling of BTC should not be done with a goal of buying back cheaper, but instead as a means to manage our BTC holdings, and perhaps provide downside insurance... and yeah, maybe even my own practices are not really that great of an idea, since people confuse them for trading and also start to employ them way before they have reached reasonably high levels of over-accumulation.. Many folks seem to come to a conclusion to assess that they have reached a status of over-accumulation of their BTC way too early (way prior to actually having had reached such status).

[Olatundespo]

It is not a new thing that buying bitcoin for a long term is the key success for an investors who has the understanding of bitcoin investment. And the subject makes.it clear for everyone here. It is to buy and it is to sell. In investment you buy and keep it for the period not time which is still low and once it is up to the time you will like to sell them you sell it and take your profits and this is the time of selling. Even if not all it is better to taste the $99k to the $100k then continue again for another All Time High for a long term investment. Investment should be on stages. And I think this is one of the stages to sell. Though it is not for all but those who like to.

Even though currently the price has almost reached 100K, for some people this price is not the main goal. Because bitcoin investment is an excellent store of value asset, many people who invest in bitcoin are not only looking for fiat profits, but the main factor is that bitcoin is an excellent store of value. So if you are a trader, maybe selling bitcoin right now is quite appropriate. But I won't do that, because I invested in bitcoin for a long time, so selling bitcoin now is the same as ruining my original mission.

There are countless investors like you in the bitcoin market who set a target to hold on to fiat in the short term and only have the ability to successfully reach their goals. For a trader following a simple strategy to get limited profit that sounds like gambling and I find it more favorable to withdraw from the decision to sell high profit at low profit. When you learn to go against the flow, it will be difficult for you but the results can be very rewarding and you should always strive for the hard earned achievements.
Setting a strict time line for Bitcoin and accordingly saving any amount regularly is enough to make your holding successful. We should set our investment plan with the possibility of Bitcoin hitting $100k value in just a few years and further increase in value over the next 4-10 years period so that savings can grow multiples.

[Agbe]

Snip

I only have a simple question to ask you because your disciples don't really understand bitcoin investment. And the question is:
Is there long term and short term investment in bitcoin? Or it is only long term investment of bitcoin and there is no short term investment of bitcoin at all? Because from my research on bitcoin investment there two categories to invest in bitcoin. Short term investment and long term investment. But it seeing you are abandoning the short term investment and only telling people about the long term investment. And as a teacher like me, you have to tell your disciples the two and they will decide which one to follow because not everyone can endure for the long term investment. And anyone who made a comment on short term investment here must be attacked by them because the orientation given to them here is only for the long term investment.

So I want to know from you. Is bitcoin investment is only for long term and no short term? And all short term investors are traders? There are some people who don't know how to trade but they are investing in bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

Snip

I only have a simple question to ask you because your disciples don't really understand bitcoin investment. And the question is:
Is there long term and short term investment in bitcoin? Or it is only long term investment of bitcoin and there is no short term investment of bitcoin at all?

I would suggest for clarity that you cannot really short term invest into bitcoin unless it is 4-10 years, then that might be considered short-term, but it is short term because you might be considering that you have age or health issues or some other issues that does not allow you to tie up your money for so long, so you are going to start to need to withdraw from it within a shorter timeline like 4-10 years.

Long term investing would be 10 years or longer.

I think less than 4 years in bitcoin is trading rather than investing, and you are likely causing confusion when you are referring to it as investing.

Sure you can do what you like, and you may well have intentions to continue to build up your bitcoin investment by selling and trying to buy back cheaper, and you can call that investing, even though it would be more accurately called trading, even if you might be creating some kind of a separate fund that you are trying to build up for 4-10 years or longer in the future, so you might figure that you can identify BTC's price waves and then to sell and to buy back later and then you end up with more BTC. 

I am not sure how you are going to call that investing without causing confusion.. with guys who even recognize that they likely are going to end up with longer than 4- year time horizons where they are just ongoingly building their BTC and then they also likely realize that could take them to 10 years or more.. and then maybe you also want to be able to cash out your bitcoin 4-10 years or later, but in the meantime, you believe that you can play the wave, but that is still trading, and surely you are free to do what you want.. but still is confusing to call it investing.

Because from my research on bitcoin investment there two categories to invest in bitcoin. Short term investment and long term investment.

Sure traders are going to call their trading investing because they think that 2- 3 years or even 4 years is a long time to hold a position, but if they are just trying to play the wave, that is not really investing, even though they call it investing.  We likely are not going to stop people from referring to their trading as investing, and even smart people are going to do it, but it still is confusing and misleading to try to suggest that you really can be investing in bitcoin on timelines that are less than 4 years....and a lot of the reason that it is misleading is based on the nature of bitcoin as an asset.

There surely can be folks who get into bitcoin and they even intend to stay for 4-10 years or longer, so they come into bitcoin with an investing mindset, and they can choose to abandon their investment and to sell some or all of their BTC, and maybe that was not their original intention...so they came in with an investing mindset and an investing intention, but when they sold they became a trader, and even moreso if they are expecting to buy back at lower prices.  If their intention is ONLY to spend it and to buy a house, then they switched their investment from bitcoin to residential property, so it could be more difficult to label them as a trader since they would not be planning to buy back BTC, but their playing the price wave may well have converted them into a trader rather than an investor.

Another thing could be that you sell half of your BTC position in less than a 4 year timeline rather than all of your BTC position, and then it becomes more difficult to figure out what your activities are since they are kind of mixed, but may also depend on your intention, and if you are selling to buy back at lower prices, that seems like a trader rather than an investor to me.  And if you want to call yourself an investor, then sure we can just agree to disagree.. and sometimes it might not matter, even though it could cause confusion about what it is you are doing and then another question about whether it is a good idea to do what you are doing, even though in the end you are the one who is responsible for what you do, but then if you talk about what you are doing in a thread like this, then there will be likelihood for discussion, especially if guys disagree or you are going against some of the ways things are talked about.

But it seeing you are abandoning the short term investment and only telling people about the long term investment.

I doubt that I have ever (especially recently) referred to short-term investing as less than 4 years... I consider less than 4 years to be trading, even though surely I have seen guys describing what they are doing as short-term investing and even proclaiming that they were going to try to play BTC's price wave.  I think that I frequently referred to that as trading rather than investing, even if they were planning to do it on a longer timeline.  I think it is problematic for anyone to be selling BTC and expecting to buy back cheaper, and if they do it they would try to figure out some reasonable size that likely would be less than half of their stash based on some special circumstances that they have determined to be to their advantage.

And as a teacher like me, you have to tell your disciples the two and they will decide which one to follow because not everyone can endure for the long term investment.

You can play the wave, and hope you get lucky... so yeah, there are some guys who cannot invest. and they are playing the wave of less than 4 years and hoping things work out for them, and yes in your case if you have an average cost that might be $30k-ish or something like that, then you can take your profits, and you can choose whether to trim off some portion or to sell all of it... and you can figure out what you need and what you don't need.

It seems a bit problematic that you would put all of your money you needed into bitcoin and you were gambling on price appreciation before you needed the money, or more likely you are describing the difference between need and wants in different ways, since clearly you don't need the money  if you are selling it in order to buy back at $30k (which is almost certainly not going to happen).

And anyone who made a comment on short term investment here must be attacked by them because the orientation given to them here is only for the long term investment.

There could be circumstances to have 4-10 year (short term investment into BTC).  I would suggest less than 4 years is trading not investing, even though sure you could invest $10k into bitcoin at $30k with an expectation that you would cash out when it was worth $30k at $90k, but you are not cashing out, you are wanting to buy back...so that sounds like trading rather than investing.

So I want to know from you. Is bitcoin investment is only for long term and no short term? And all short term investors are traders? There are some people who don't know how to trade but they are investing in bitcoin.

We are repeating.. but if you are selling bitcoin with an expectation of buying back cheaper, then you are trading, even if you believe that you don't know how to trade.

In the end, I am not any kind of an expert including that you might want to call things different names than me, so we could be arguing about semantics, and maybe it does not matter so much if we are arguing about what to call things, but instead we can maybe figure out some BTC accumulation strategies or cash management strategies, but in the end, I am just a regular guy with my various experiences and opinions about bitcoin and cash management ideas.. and we might not agree about some of the details or how to apply the ideas into practice, which means that each of us has to account for our own financial and psychological circumstances to figure out what we are going to do..and sometimes  we make mistakes along the way in order to figure out what to do  or what might be better, and some of the mistakes will take us out or the game and other mistakes end up being more minor mistakes.. but we all make them along the way at various times..

[Ricardo11]

Snip

I only have a simple question to ask you because your disciples don't really understand bitcoin investment. And the question is:
Is there long term and short term investment in bitcoin? Or it is only long term investment of bitcoin and there is no short term investment of bitcoin at all? Because from my research on bitcoin investment there two categories to invest in bitcoin. Short term investment and long term investment. But it seeing you are abandoning the short term investment and only telling people about the long term investment. And as a teacher like me, you have to tell your disciples the two and they will decide which one to follow because not everyone can endure for the long term investment. And anyone who made a comment on short term investment here must be attacked by them because the orientation given to them here is only for the long term investment.

So I want to know from you. Is bitcoin investment is only for long term and no short term? And all short term investors are traders? There are some people who don't know how to trade but they are investing in bitcoin.

Yes, there are two categories of Bitcoin, long-term and short-term investment. And the main feature of these two investment methods is the amount of risk.

Long-term investment: In the case of long-term investment, the amount of risk is always low, for example, if we study the history of Bitcoin, we will see that the price of Bitcoin has always increased a lot in the long term, but it tends to be very UP and DOWN in the short term. Therefore, this Long-term investment method is relatively low risk, so most investors give more priority to the long-term investment method. Especially long-term investment using the DCA method. As a result, an average price is obtained by avoiding short-term market volatility from which we can benefit more in the long term.

Short-term investment: Short-term Bitcoin investment does not mean trading. Some investors buy and sell at the right time in the hope that the price will increase in the short term, and to do this thing correctly, a lot of market research, skills, right strategy and right method must be adopted. In this case, if he makes a slight mistake in market research, everything can change, that is, if he makes an investment based on the wrong market research, then instead of increasing in value, the value may decrease.

Therefore, short-term investment is much riskier, but a short-term investor is not a trader.

Therefore, an investor can invest in both methods, but it depends on his own personal decision, that is, it depends on the risk-taking ability of the investor.

[Cryptoprincess101]

Is there long term and short term investment in bitcoin? Or it is only long term investment of bitcoin and there is no short term investment of bitcoin at all? Because from my research on bitcoin investment there two categories to invest in bitcoin. Short term investment and long term investment.

Yes, there is short term investment and long-term investment in bitcoin, and the difference is that for a short-term bitcoin investor, they are more like traders who are only more concerned about taking advantage of the current activity in the market, for example, a short-term investor may only be concerned about buying at a DIP and sells when the price skyrockets which is not a good practice for an investor because you can sell at a high price and the price may not DIP for you to buy back again and wait for when the price will rise for you to sell, but a long term investor is basically a hodler who has long term investment target such that they are not moved to sell their hodlings within a short interval no matter how high the volatility is, their major focus is mostly how to own a sizable portfolio for long term future growth. These kind of investors sees bitcoin as an asset that should be stored for value that is the reason why they are confident about the future of bitcoin because they know that they can realize a huge profit in the long run.
      Whether short term bitcoin investor or long-term bitcoin investor, everyone has the liberty to choose the one that works perfectly for them but i prefer the long-term investment because it gives you ease over your investment while watching it grow, and you will have the privilege of even accumulating and owning more bitcoins in your portfolio which will lead to fulfilling your investment goals.

[Wonder Work]

I only have a simple question to ask you because your disciples don't really understand bitcoin investment. And the question is:
Is there long term and short term investment in bitcoin? Or it is only long term investment of bitcoin and there is no short term investment of bitcoin at all?

You have asked two questions here. I will explain them to you in two ways. I hope you understand. There are two types of long-term investment in Bitcoin: short-term investment. Now, which one you choose is a personal matter. However, if you want to achieve something good, you have to invest in Bitcoin for a long time; for example, you have to invest in Bitcoin for a very short period; if you think about investing for a short period, it will not happen. To invest in Bitcoin for a long time, you have to have that mindset, I will invest here for a long time, if I say later that I could not run it, then it will not happen. To maintain this, you must ensure the investment trend is not wasted.

However, if you have the ability, some part of your money should be in a regular investment system. Then, something good will come to you from Bitcoin in the long journey. You must think for more than 4-5 years for long-term investment.

If you want to invest in the short term, you can do it too, no problem, but I think it would be best to choose a long term to invest in Bitcoin. Those who invest in the short term always pay attention to the market. When the price of Bitcoin increases, they sell their investment money and wait for the price of Bitcoin to decrease, and from there they start investing again. This is how many people do short term investment systems. Again, you will see that many people who think in the short term choose the trading system through them. By choosing the trading system, they buy Bitcoin at a low price and if the price of Bitcoin increases a little, if they make a profit, they sell it and again they take entries for the short term, leaving the long term. If you do it this way, you cannot make much profit.

Between long-term and short-term investments, I will give the highest priority to long-term investments because you can expect something good from them.

Sure you can do what you like, and you may well have intentions to continue to build up your bitcoin investment by selling and trying to buy back cheaper, and you can call that investing, even though it would be more accurately called trading

Yes, you are right. Most people who think of short-term investment do this type of trading. However, they cannot achieve anything good from it. I also did this once, but there was no such profit. Later, I also gave it up, and now I think of doing it long-term with Bitcoin. I have understood from myself that nothing good can be expected from Bitcoin other than thinking long-term.

However, I have seen some people who continue to invest a part in fixed Bitcoin and on the other hand, invest a little for a short term as an option. I have seen this type of system as an option. These things are a personal matter for each person. How to take them.

[Agbe]

Snip

From what you said, your disciples don't even know what is bitcoin investment and they only understand the parts you made mentioned of the "long term investment". They are not even real investors so they don't have much experience on bitcoin investment. Short term bitcoin investment is 5-10 years and if the investors can hodle his coins in this period, then he can withstand with long term investment because going into long term need more determination because it is a financial activity and within this period anything can happen. Either the person will die or sick so all those things will be put into consideration in the long term investment. Sir you are confusing your disciples by saying that 4-10 years investment is tagged as a trading. Trading has different timing but not 4 years. From my experience in cryptocurrency, I have not encountered 4 years trading timing. In trading there there are 1m, 15m, 4h, 1d, 1w, 1month and more.

What is bitcoin trading. It is the process of buying and selling of bitcoin so if you buy bitcoin today and sell it in 2090, it is also part of bitcoin trading and that is why new have different timeframe of trading.

What is bitcoin investment? It is the act of buying bitcoin and hodling it for profit purpose, so the profit can come at any time. And not to dump it in the wallet for everlasting. You must sell it one day and there are different times for selling it and all depends on the profit you have at the moment of the bitcoin price.

So if I bought bitcoin of $30,000 today as an individual and within 4 years period and I got a profit of $500,000 and add it to.my capital it should be $530,000 and i should still keep it. That is greedy investor. And that is not a trade but short term investment base on the concept of investment.

From the way I understand your comments, your investment on bitcoin is everlasting and forever which your disciples who don't know about investment also arguing for.

You are really confusing them about bitcoin investment. Please also tell them the different types of bitcoin investment.

Long term investing would be 10 years or longer.

meaning there is short term bitcoin investment below the 10 years which your disciples refuse to accept because of your orientations. They have to understand the meaning of bitcoin investment before they should argue so that they won't mislead others. You can't impose your bitcoin investment plan on others and it is not good to tell people that it is only long term investment is the legit one and anyone who is short term investment is nonsense.

They have to read and understand what an investment and differentiate investment from trading. I ahe dropped some of timeframes of trading. Trading is different from investment. I trade once a while but my investment is continues and whenever I like to sell, some can sell them and take my profits because that is the main purpose of investment and I am not tired to the forever investment which I believe your disciples are not even doing.

I doubt that I have ever (especially recently) referred to short-term investing as less than 4 years...

Yes sir, and that is why people like DubemIfedigbo001,  Sim_card and Ruttoshi and others are only repeating long term investment and they are single issue commenters in the thread.

Please break things down for them because they are already mislead...

[Ruttoshi]

. Sir you are confusing your disciples by saying that 4-10 years investment is tagged as a trading.

You are misquoting JJG because he never called 4-10 years bitcoin investment trading but he said that any investment that is not up to a circle is trading, and bitcoin complete circle is 4 years. If you read through this thread, you will see that the timeline that is always used to encourage anyone that is into bitcoin accumulation should do it for 4-10 years and above..that's your choice and no compulsory but at least invest and hodli for more than one circle if you are still young.

What is bitcoin trading. It is the process of buying and selling of bitcoin so if you buy bitcoin today and sell it in 2090, it is also part of bitcoin trading and that is why new have different timeframe of trading.

I beg your pardon investing in bitcoin today and grow your bitcoin investment to your bitcoin target and hodli till 2090 is not trading because you didn't sell a dime before 4 years timeline, neither did you sell to buy back before 2090. It is called a long-term investment.

So if I bought bitcoin of $30,000 today as an individual and within 4 years period and I got a profit of $500,000 and add it to.my capital it should be $530,000 and i should still keep it. That is greedy investor. And that is not a trade but short term investment base on the concept of investment.

Accepted, 4 years timeline is called investment. I don't think it is called greedy because since you know that the value of bitcoin is still increasing and you want to bitcoin to be part of your life, or if possible pass on part of your bitcoin investment to your heir, as their inheritance, you don't need to sell a dime because you have a special plan for your bitcoin investment in future. Imagine you holding your bitcoin till bitcoin becomes very expensive and unaffordable by poor or average people, it means that you are also among the rich because you used the early opportunity that you had to invest in bitcoin when it was cheap and hodli for that long. It's how long that you hodli your bitcoin and the size of your bitcoin portfolio that will determine your profit in future.

Haven't you thought why big investors and government are picking interest on investing in bitcoin, because it's going to be the bomb in future. I also have plans to make my bitcoin investment part of my life because I can't imagine I am living without having good size of bitcoin in my possession with the current opportunity that am using to invest in bitcoin.

[I_Anime]

Yes sir, and that is why people like DubemIfedigbo001,  Sim_card and Ruttoshi and others are only repeating long term investment and they are single issue commenters in the thread.

Please break things down for them because they are already mislead

In my understanding (feel free to correct me plz) short-term investment is different from trading, short-term investment is like holding your coin for a short period of time , like 4-10 years , while trading is when one is trying to play with market wave (buying and selling within minutes, hours and days etc.) .

The thing is that for now I don't actually focus on this rather am focusing on building my bitcoin Stashes till I get to my target goal . Once I get to that point , that's when I will start thinking of scraping some profits without selling all my holdings, because in this bitcoin investment everyone have their own goal and plans , because you can't compare yourself to others.  

What is bitcoin trading. It is the process of buying and selling of bitcoin so if you buy bitcoin today and sell it in 2090, it is also part of bitcoin trading and that is why new have different timeframe of trading.

I beg your pardon investing in bitcoin today and grow your bitcoin investment to your bitcoin target and hodli till 2090 is not trading because you didn't sell a dime before 4 years timeline, neither did you sell to buy back before 2090. It is called a long-term investment.

Exactly, because how can you say  that buying bitcoin and hold for 66 years without selling is trading , that sound misleading mate because that's obviously a long-term investment , because long-term is investment is from 10 years and above, just as sir JayJuanGee said , so such is an investment not trading

[Agbe]

. Sir you are confusing your disciples by saying that 4-10 years investment is tagged as a trading.

You are misquoting JJG because he never called 4-10 years bitcoin investment trading but he said that any investment that is not up to a circle is trading, and bitcoin complete circle is 4 years. If you read through this thread, you will see that the timeline that is always used to encourage anyone that is into bitcoin accumulation should do it for 4-10 years and above..that's your choice and no compulsory but at least invest and hodli for more than one circle if you are still young.

What is bitcoin trading. It is the process of buying and selling of bitcoin so if you buy bitcoin today and sell it in 2090, it is also part of bitcoin trading and that is why new have different timeframe of trading.

I beg your pardon investing in bitcoin today and grow your bitcoin investment to your bitcoin target and hodli till 2090 is not trading because you didn't sell a dime before 4 years timeline, neither did you sell to buy back before 2090. It is called a long-term investment.

Thank you for this comment you have made, this what I was waiting for. I told you that you guys don't understand the bitcoin investment. You said J.J didn't mention 4-10 years investment. Please I will quote everything from him for you to understand it well. So if 2090 is not a trading then keeping your bitcoin within 3 years is trading? You guys are just making empty comments here without knowing what is an investment.

Please can you define what trading a.d investment for clear discussion?

Look at what he said... I don't argue blind argument with people like this. J.J comments is very much different from yours.

Snip

I only have a simple question to ask you because your disciples don't really understand bitcoin investment. And the question is:
Is there long term and short term investment in bitcoin? Or it is only long term investment of bitcoin and there is no short term investment of bitcoin at all?

I would suggest for clarity that you cannot really short term invest into bitcoin unless it is 4-10 years, then that might be considered short-term, but it is short term because you might be considering that you have age or health issues or some other issues that does not allow you to tie up your money for so long, so you are going to start to need to withdraw from it within a shorter timeline like 4-10 years.

Long term investing would be 10 years or longer.

I think less than 4 years in bitcoin is trading rather than investing, and you are likely causing confusion when you are referring to it as investing.

Sure you can do what you like, and you may well have intentions to continue to build up your bitcoin investment by selling and trying to buy back cheaper, and you can call that investing, even though it would be more accurately called trading, even if you might be creating some kind of a separate fund that you are trying to build up for 4-10 years or longer in the future, so you might figure that you can identify BTC's price waves and then to sell and to buy back later and then you end up with more BTC. 

I am not sure how you are going to call that investing without causing confusion.. with guys who even recognize that they likely are going to end up with longer than 4- year time horizons where they are just ongoingly building their BTC and then they also likely realize that could take them to 10 years or more.. and then maybe you also want to be able to cash out your bitcoin 4-10 years or later, but in the meantime, you believe that you can play the wave, but that is still trading, and surely you are free to do what you want.. but still is confusing to call it investing.

Because from my research on bitcoin investment there two categories to invest in bitcoin. Short term investment and long term investment.

Sure traders are going to call their trading investing because they think that 2- 3 years or even 4 years is a long time to hold a position, but if they are just trying to play the wave, that is not really investing, even though they call it investing.  We likely are not going to stop people from referring to their trading as investing, and even smart people are going to do it, but it still is confusing and misleading to try to suggest that you really can be investing in bitcoin on timelines that are less than 4 years....and a lot of the reason that it is misleading is based on the nature of bitcoin as an asset.

There surely can be folks who get into bitcoin and they even intend to stay for 4-10 years or longer, so they come into bitcoin with an investing mindset, and they can choose to abandon their investment and to sell some or all of their BTC, and maybe that was not their original intention...so they came in with an investing mindset and an investing intention, but when they sold they became a trader, and even moreso if they are expecting to buy back at lower prices.  If their intention is ONLY to spend it and to buy a house, then they switched their investment from bitcoin to residential property, so it could be more difficult to label them as a trader since they would not be planning to buy back BTC, but their playing the price wave may well have converted them into a trader rather than an investor.

Another thing could be that you sell half of your BTC position in less than a 4 year timeline rather than all of your BTC position, and then it becomes more difficult to figure out what your activities are since they are kind of mixed, but may also depend on your intention, and if you are selling to buy back at lower prices, that seems like a trader rather than an investor to me.  And if you want to call yourself an investor, then sure we can just agree to disagree.. and sometimes it might not matter, even though it could cause confusion about what it is you are doing and then another question about whether it is a good idea to do what you are doing, even though in the end you are the one who is responsible for what you do, but then if you talk about what you are doing in a thread like this, then there will be likelihood for discussion, especially if guys disagree or you are going against some of the ways things are talked about.

But it seeing you are abandoning the short term investment and only telling people about the long term investment.

I doubt that I have ever (especially recently) referred to short-term investing as less than 4 years... I consider less than 4 years to be trading, even though surely I have seen guys describing what they are doing as short-term investing and even proclaiming that they were going to try to play BTC's price wave.  I think that I frequently referred to that as trading rather than investing, even if they were planning to do it on a longer timeline.  I think it is problematic for anyone to be selling BTC and expecting to buy back cheaper, and if they do it they would try to figure out some reasonable size that likely would be less than half of their stash based on some special circumstances that they have determined to be to their advantage.

And as a teacher like me, you have to tell your disciples the two and they will decide which one to follow because not everyone can endure for the long term investment.

You can play the wave, and hope you get lucky... so yeah, there are some guys who cannot invest. and they are playing the wave of less than 4 years and hoping things work out for them, and yes in your case if you have an average cost that might be $30k-ish or something like that, then you can take your profits, and you can choose whether to trim off some portion or to sell all of it... and you can figure out what you need and what you don't need.

It seems a bit problematic that you would put all of your money you needed into bitcoin and you were gambling on price appreciation before you needed the money, or more likely you are describing the difference between need and wants in different ways, since clearly you don't need the money  if you are selling it in order to buy back at $30k (which is almost certainly not going to happen).

And anyone who made a comment on short term investment here must be attacked by them because the orientation given to them here is only for the long term investment.

There could be circumstances to have 4-10 year (short term investment into BTC).  I would suggest less than 4 years is trading not investing, even though sure you could invest $10k into bitcoin at $30k with an expectation that you would cash out when it was worth $30k at $90k, but you are not cashing out, you are wanting to buy back...so that sounds like trading rather than investing.

So I want to know from you. Is bitcoin investment is only for long term and no short term? And all short term investors are traders? There are some people who don't know how to trade but they are investing in bitcoin.

We are repeating.. but if you are selling bitcoin with an expectation of buying back cheaper, then you are trading, even if you believe that you don't know how to trade.

In the end, I am not any kind of an expert including that you might want to call things different names than me, so we could be arguing about semantics, and maybe it does not matter so much if we are arguing about what to call things, but instead we can maybe figure out some BTC accumulation strategies or cash management strategies, but in the end, I am just a regular guy with my various experiences and opinions about bitcoin and cash management ideas.. and we might not agree about some of the details or how to apply the ideas into practice, which means that each of us has to account for our own financial and psychological circumstances to figure out what we are going to do..and sometimes  we make mistakes along the way in order to figure out what to do  or what might be better, and some of the mistakes will take us out or the game and other mistakes end up being more minor mistakes.. but we all make them along the way at various times..

[Ambatman]

Edited

I understand your view but y'all have been so fixated on duration neglecting the fact that mindset among others differentiates trading from investment.
As long as you planning on riding the wave and relying on technical analysis for profit, you trading.
Investments is more like accumulating wealth and more reliant on fundamental analysis.
Now to short term investment and trading?
Trading may look like short term investment but they are not the same.
Though trading traditionally is considered less than a year
There are times it span for years.
So duration varies based on Mindset but normally investments are 4 years+
If you accumulating wealth for long term that's investment
But if you actively interested in tops and bottom for maximum profit
You trading.
You hold 3 years and sell to buy cheaper and another holds 7 months and sell to buy cheaper are both trading
The difference is the duration.





Duration isn't absolute and could be considered subjective for short term investment.

[JayJuanGee]

Snip

I only have a simple question to ask you because your disciples don't really understand bitcoin investment. And the question is:
Is there long term and short term investment in bitcoin? Or it is only long term investment of bitcoin and there is no short term investment of bitcoin at all? Because from my research on bitcoin investment there two categories to invest in bitcoin. Short term investment and long term investment. But it seeing you are abandoning the short term investment and only telling people about the long term investment. And as a teacher like me, you have to tell your disciples the two and they will decide which one to follow because not everyone can endure for the long term investment. And anyone who made a comment on short term investment here must be attacked by them because the orientation given to them here is only for the long term investment.

So I want to know from you. Is bitcoin investment is only for long term and no short term? And all short term investors are traders? There are some people who don't know how to trade but they are investing in bitcoin.

Yes, there are two categories of Bitcoin, long-term and short-term investment. And the main feature of these two investment methods is the amount of risk.

That is a weird way of categorizing matters.  You don't take risk out by length of your investment, yet you can mitigate risk with position size.

Long-term investment: In the case of long-term investment, the amount of risk is always low, for example, if we study the history of Bitcoin, we will see that the price of Bitcoin has always increased a lot in the long term, but it tends to be very UP and DOWN in the short term. Therefore, this Long-term investment method is relatively low risk, so most investors give more priority to the long-term investment method. Especially long-term investment using the DCA method. As a result, an average price is obtained by avoiding short-term market volatility from which we can benefit more in the long term.

You seem to be talking about the asymmetric bet nature of bitcoin, since you don't lose risk merely because the time line is longer, but you could invest a small amount of money and then you don't necessarily perceive that the amount that you invested is materially affecting you, so in that case you invest such a small amount that you don't necessarily perceive it to be negatively impacting you, and then if the BTC price ends up going up over time, then you end up getting benefits from what had seemed to have had been relatively small amounts spread over long periods of time.

Time does not remove the risk, even though there is a concept of Lindy effect that applies to certain kinds of assets including technologies, which suggests that a longer that an asset/technology is in existence, the longer it is expected to stay in existence.. yet even that Lindy effect concept is not imunned to suffering some kind of a sudden loss of value based on some non-suspected development(s).

Short-term investment: Short-term Bitcoin investment does not mean trading.

We can agree to disagree. If you are talking about less than 4 years than I would consider that to be trading.  If you are referring to 4-10 years then I would consider that short term investing, so long as you are basing your getting out of bitcoin based on age, health or some other kind of restricting timeline consideration that does not allow you to invest more than 10 years.  For the most part, over 10 years would most likely be considered as long term investing.. though surely it could be problematic for anyone to be considered an investor if the are planning to sell everything and/or to buy back cheaper, so in that sense, trading versus investing is not just based on time, but based on how the investment is going to be handled once it starts to mature.. and so in that regards investments are not sold to buy back cheaper or even not usually all at once either.. even though surely there can be variance and even justifiable reasons to get out of investments that are not even necessarily time based but instead based on perceptions of changes in fundamentals of one investment versus another..

Some investors buy and sell at the right time in the hope that the price will increase in the short term, and to do this thing correctly, a lot of market research, skills, right strategy and right method must be adopted.

That sounds like trading to me.

In this case, if he makes a slight mistake in market research, everything can change, that is, if he makes an investment based on the wrong market research, then instead of increasing in value, the value may decrease.

That does not sound like investment, even though you are choosing to use the word investment to describe what you (or someone else) are doing.

Therefore, short-term investment is much riskier, but a short-term investor is not a trader.

We can agree to disagree regarding your framing of the matter and your ways of describing these matters.

Therefore, an investor can invest in both methods, but it depends on his own personal decision, that is, it depends on the risk-taking ability of the investor.

Still does not make sense, but if that kind of framing works for you, then so be it.

To me, we deal with risk in regards to position size rather than timeline, and also planning to play waves to get in and out of an assets sounds like trading rather than investing, and perhaps it does not matter about the timeline, even though presumptively less than 4 years would be trading just based on the timeline.. yet another aspect of investing is that there is not necessarily any incentive (or plan) to want to completely get out of it absent a change of the investment thesis.. so surely we might not be convicted about our investment into bitcoin in the beginning and it might take one or two cycles for us to develop a conviction to stay in it and to establish sustainable withdrawal strategies around it.. .. yet surely, new facts could end up contributing to our deciding to get out of the investment (even if we might have had investment inclinations until the strength of the investment thesis ended up changing and causing us to no longer believe in the asset as compared with other places that we might determine to put (or move or reallocate or change allocations of) our value.

Snip

From what you said, your disciples don't even know what is bitcoin investment and they only understand the parts you made mentioned of the "long term investment". They are not even real investors so they don't have much experience on bitcoin investment. Short term bitcoin investment is 5-10 years and if the investors can hodle his coins in this period, then he can withstand with long term investment because going into long term need more determination because it is a financial activity and within this period anything can happen. Either the person will die or sick so all those things will be put into consideration in the long term investment. Sir you are confusing your disciples by saying that 4-10 years investment is tagged as a trading. Trading has different timing but not 4 years. From my experience in cryptocurrency, I have not encountered 4 years trading timing. In trading there there are 1m, 15m, 4h, 1d, 1w, 1month and more.

We might be repeating ourselves too much in these kinds of semantics arguments, and I am not even proclaiming to be able to describe any of these kinds of trading versus matters with great precision, since there is going to be overlap in the practices, including that a person could come to bitcoin with a short term or long term time horizon, and he could plan to get in and out of a position, so then the getting in and out of a position would more likely fit into a trading category, especially if the intention is to buy back cheaper.

Investing could be long or short and with intentions to mostly be staying in bitcoin with a plan to convert from accumulation and then to maintenance and then to sustainable withdrawal on a fairly short timeline, so then I would consider those to be investment kinds of mindsets based on an intention to get into bitcoin and mostly to hang onto it, even though the employment and execution of sustainable withdrawal practices might start to come into play after a certain timeline and having had built up the size of the position (which would presumptively be enough or more than enough by the time any sustainable withdrawal strategy (price-based and/or time based) might start to be employed).

What is bitcoin trading. It is the process of buying and selling of bitcoin so if you buy bitcoin today and sell it in 2090, it is also part of bitcoin trading and that is why new have different timeframe of trading.

It becomes meaningless when talking about such long timelines.. let's try to stay more realistic, since concededly, it becomes more difficult to label as trading the longer the timeline, even though surely when guys are playing with large portions of their portfolio at one time, then it can start to seem like trading rather than investing.

What is bitcoin investment? It is the act of buying bitcoin and hodling it for profit purpose, so the profit can come at any time.

You seem to be stating the opposite on purpose.. which is not a very genuine way of attempt to engage in serious discussions.  Investors do not tend to focus on profits, that is a trading kind of way of attempting to justify how to manage BTC positions.

And not to dump it in the wallet for everlasting. You must sell it one day and there are different times for selling it and all depends on the profit you have at the moment of the bitcoin price.

That's trading not investing.

So if I bought bitcoin of $30,000 today as an individual and within 4 years period and I got a profit of $500,000 and add it to.my capital it should be $530,000 and i should still keep it. That is greedy investor. And that is not a trade but short term investment base on the concept of investment.

You are providing confusing examples, but let me see if I can go with it. You want to suggest that your $30k investment today turned into $530k in 4 years, and so when you cash it all out, you are investing rather than trading?  it sounds like trading to me, since you are getting in and out, and then when you sell, are you planning to keep some of that in to buy back or are you going out and buying other things?  Does any of this matter?  Are you trying to stay into bitcoin longer term or not? Are you becoming a no coiner when you cash out your $530k?  Why do you want to cash out?  Are you suggesting that BTC's investment thesis is weaker at that time?  or are you suggesting that bitcoin is in a period of overexuberance and you are playing the wave to either buy back lower and/or to invest into other things and/or to do engage in some consumption?

What we call it might be based on what you want to do with it, yet it is not automatically justifiable to take the value out of bitcoin merely because you are booking $500k profits (or 17.7x returns).

From the way I understand your comments, your investment on bitcoin is everlasting and forever which your disciples who don't know about investment also arguing for.

I am not saying that completely, even though you can figure out sustainable withdrawal strategies that are based on price and/or time, and you can figure out how you are to deal with your $530k in bitcoin value rather than selling all of it to do what?  Sure maybe you could sell some of it for various purposes along the way, yet you may well not need to (or even get much value from selling all of it at one time), so your having that value should help to inform you in regards to what you want to do and how you want to deal with the situation of having had achieved a 17.7x price appreciation, and a value attainment that may or may not be sustainable in itself on the short-term...

Yet one of the dynamics that any of us bitcoiners should be considering is that we are in the midst of one of the greatest, if not the greatest transferences of wealth in history from no coiners to coiners, and do we want to be on the side of the coiners (who are receiving the wealth transfer) or do we want to be on the side of the low coiners/no coiners because we ended up selling too many coins too soon.  Sure, you might believe that you are smarter than everyone else when you sell too much too soon.. and maybe you will even be correct for a while, yet it surely can be problematic if you are selling to buy back lower and you end up fucking up the size of your BTC stash because you did not hardly have enough in the first place and you would have had been better off to just keep stacking for another cycle before getting overly anxious about selling or trying to sell to buy back cheaper.. .. and sure in the end you can do whatever you like since you are going to be the one who suffers the consequences of whatever you choose to do.

You are really confusing them about bitcoin investment.

I don't claim to know all of the answers, and I doubt that your description is more beneficial.. especially when you talk about being in bitcoin less than 3 years and then you are planning to sell at $100k and buy back at $30k and you think that should be considered investing (or short-term investing). You seem to be the one with confusing and seemingly convoluted ways of framing these kinds of trading versus investing ideas.

Please also tell them the different types of bitcoin investment.

Long term investing would be 10 years or longer.

meaning there is short term bitcoin investment below the 10 years which your disciples refuse to accept because of your orientations. They have to understand the meaning of bitcoin investment before they should argue so that they won't mislead others.

I already went over this, and guys are free to consider some of my ways of trying to discuss these trading versus investing matters or they can consider if there might be better ways to consider these matters. It is not always going to be clear because some folks might come into bitcoin with certain timelines in mind, but their ideas might change as they build their bitcoin portfolio, and they might convert from trader to investor or from investor to trader.. .and even their timelines might change or their ideas about the strength of bitcoin's investment thesis might change.  It is best if they can figure out some of these parameters for themselves including that we are not always going to agree how to go about either building our BTC investment or circumstances that might motivate us to change our practices, including if we might have varying ideas about when to get out partially or in full, so each person has to also account for his own financial and psychological circumstances that might include considering if during his investment period (of 3 years or whatever) if he had been learning enough about bitcoin in order to decide to sell or if some other strategy might be better.  We won't necessarily agree and surely some bitcoin accumulators are going to do better than others based on how they choose to accumulate bitcoin, and if they choose to tweak their strategies including if they might start to include selling into their way of wanting to accumulate bitcoin, if that is where they consider themselves to be, and surely there can be differences of opinions about whether to sell all BTC or some of the BTC and there will be winners and losers in regards to BTC management (and maintenance) choices that guys choose to employ in their bitcoin journey.

You can't impose your bitcoin investment plan on others and it is not good to tell people that it is only long term investment is the legit one and anyone who is short term investment is nonsense.

I can say what I think is better, yet sure, you are correct that each person has to figure out for himself in terms of his various individual factors.

They have to read and understand what an investment and differentiate investment from trading. I ahe dropped some of timeframes of trading. Trading is different from investment. I trade once a while but my investment is continues and whenever I like to sell, some can sell them and take my profits because that is the main purpose of investment and I am not tired to the forever investment which I believe your disciples are not even doing.

We cannot really know exactly what guys are doing, even though some will try to describe what they are doing, and surely some guys will be doing things differently than what they say, and surely there are always going to be instances of guys making mistakes and they may or may not disclose their mistakes.  Sometimes I talk about some of my mistakes, and sometimes I don't say everything that I do because some of what I do might not be exactly relevant to the conversation, yet also sometimes there might be personal reasons to do certain things and maybe even while some things are done on the fly, they might be confusing to describe until after some time has passed by...so sometimes I might not say what I am done or what I did until several months later, when it seems to be relevant to some discussion point...

Sometimes what I did might be a mistake or it might be a brilliant move or it might be something that I learn from or it might be something that ends up showing a strength or weakness that I might have. Sometimes, there might be reasons to not say anything based on OPsec considerations, so sometimes it might take some time to figure out how to describe something that happened or how the BTC portfolio was handled under certain conditions without necessarily giving away too many OPSec kinds of information pieces.

I doubt that I have ever (especially recently) referred to short-term investing as less than 4 years...

Yes sir, and that is why people like DubemIfedigbo001,  Sim_card and Ruttoshi and others are only repeating long term investment and they are single issue commenters in the thread.

Please break things down for them because they are already mislead...

I think that I said enough already, and those guys have their own ideas, and sure sometimes we agree on the way that these ideas are framed and sometimes we don't, and I even doubt that they are just following what I say, since frequently, they will come up with their own ways of saying things, which I might or might not agree with any of them.  It is not like we have some kind of consensus on all of these matters, even if there seems to be agreement about some of the better practices, and any one of us might end up saying something that is not very correct or we say it in a way that is misleading, so surely there can be learning from each other, yet at the same time, it can be problematic for anyone to merely agree based on another member (such as me) saying it, since they have to figure out their own ways of saying it and perhaps figuring out for themselves if the practice is good or not, and if it fits with their circumstances, since if they end up fucking up, they are not going to be saved merely because they thought that they were following best practices, and it ends up being wrong.  Each of us is responsible for ourselves, and if we listen or blindly follow someone on the interwebs, then we only have ourselves to blame. .whether we are considering cashflow management practices, BTC position size and/or when and how or if to diversify into other assets, including how to think about (and describe) shitcoins and/or trading versus investment.

[edited out]

Please can you define what trading a.d investment for clear discussion?

We might be getting too much into semantical arguments and just repeating ourselves without really getting anywhere.

Look at what he said... I don't argue blind argument with people like this. J.J comments is very much different from yours.

[edited out]

My post can speak for itself to the extent that whatever I said matters in regards to any of this anyhow, and I feel that I am repeating myself and the lines of what is trading versus investing are not going to be exact anyhow... even though surely guys can employ practices that they are not sure of whether they are investing versus if they are trading, and maybe it does not matter so much since they might be trying to figure out where they are at and how they are going to treat their BTC holdings, which may be more important to figure out how they are going to treat it rather than arguing about what to call it... even though surely when we are using terms in ways that are understandable to others, then we can help to be more clear about various trade-offs that might play out if we decide to continue to accumulate through buying only techniques or if we might start to believe that we have to sell some BTC in order to try to buy back cheaper.  There are truly trade offs and guys have to figure out for themselves if they might want to change what they are doing and/or if they think that either selling or perhaps just refusing to buy and waiting for a dip is a good idea or not.  They are not easy answers and surely guys can get lured into trading rather than investing or think that they are doing the better thing, but then later on (perhaps years later) realize that they made  a lot of rookie mistakes that they could have had avoided if they had figured out ways to manage their own cashflows and/or their ways of BTC accumulation, and even bitcoin's price history might not tell us that we are doing the right thing since it is possible that bitcoin will never reach $100k and it will go to zero from here.. Sure it is not a very likely scenario, yet each of us is responsible to figure out our own BTC position size, our level of aggressiveness in BTC accumulation, and whether we believe selling BTC is a reasonable way to manage our BTC holdings, including considering whether selling it a good idea when we might have had assessed ourselves to be in our early to mid to late accumulation stages, and the strategies might be different based on where we assess ourselves to be..and if we are selling to buy back cheaper versus if we are selling to merely provide downside insurance versus if we might be selling to reallocate into other assets (with a presumption that we have already overaccumulated in BTC, which also is not a clear concept to realize what might constitute an overaccumulation status).    

[Agbe]

Bitcoin investment is not all about investing during the bear market and sell during the bull run, how long will you keep on repeating this over and over again because of dollar gain and you forget that we are investing in bitcoin for long-term purpose which should be from at least 10-12 years and above. At the end when we are old, what will matter is how many bitcoin were you able to accumulate all through your accumulation phase because it is the size of your portfolio that will determine the profit in future when bitcoin price will reach 500k or more.

Please can you define what is " Bear Market and Bull Market"?  Apart from long term investment you guys know, is there any other term again? No. Oh yes I am repeating that because they are key investinh period to fill up the portfolio. I really don't know if you understand bitcoin investment. Bitcoin has two major investments plan either in the bear market time to fill the portfolio and sell it it at the targeted price whether long or short. Depends ony financial capacity. I am a core investor of bitcoin and that is why I am repeating it time without number. And as it is when the Market enter Bear Market. I will refill the portfolio well. I don't advise people to invest in the bull market if the person is interested only in the DCA method then no problem. My investment target was $100k and now I am about to sell. From all the comments ni have received from you guys today. You don't understand bitcoin investment but copycat comments. Practical make perfect. I am a practical investor and I didn't come here to just make come for you guys to... But to tell you how bitcoin investment is all about.

As I said everyone has their investment plan (target). If yours was s 30 years no problem. I started my investment in 2022 and today I have making profit so I will sell and reinvest again. That how I do mine. Good bye.

From your statement, it shows that you are a trader because how will you invest in 2022 and want to sell in 204 because you feel that you have made a whole lot of profit. You only invested in 2 years and you are calling that investment. No its trading that you are practicing which is future trading and not investment because an investment is what you build and noture it for it to grow to an extent that you don't need to put money inside but the investment will continue generating funds overtime.

Can you set up a traditional investment that is flourishing and you sell all your investment to start afresh again because someone brought a good offer to you. It means that you are running from pillar to post, and bitcoin investment is far better than any traditional business because the price is still going up since bitcoin price has the tendency to continue its uptrend overtime than downtrend. I use to think like you before but after sleeping on thisetarget. One thing that I should let you know is that you don't sell because the price has reached your price target but sell because you have accumulated more than enough Bitcoin in your portfolio.

You claim that you know bitcoin investment more than everyone and you are planning to sell now, it shows that you don't know the exponential value of bitcoin, and I don't believe that you understand bitcoin investment than MicroStrategy who is buying huge amounts of bitcoin from time to time hoarding it for the future. This was how many early investors who bought bitcoin at $100 saw bitcoin at $1k and sold, currently they are regretting their actions and I hope that you don't regret yours.

Yes, agree with you there are two categories of Bitcoin, long-term and short-term investment. And the main feature of these two investment methods is the amount of risk.
but you could invest a small amount of money and then you don't necessarily perceive that the amount that you invested is materially affecting you, so in that case
. Trading has different timing but not 4 years. From my experience in cryptocurrency, I have not encountered 4 years trading timing. In trading there there are 1m, 15m, 4h, 1d, 1w, 1month to infinity

Those who are really investing are easy to know. To Ruttoshi I am not claiming that I know everything but if you are really investing and trading, these things you don't need a prophet to tell you before knowing and if someone make a mistake you will detect the error very fast. Your knowledge in bitcoin investment is very far from the reality, your knowledge only end in this thread and I can see clearly that many forum reputable are not coming to this thread to make comments because of all these shits.

Hey! JayJuanGee sorry for the prolonging the argument with a cycle. Yes you have repeatedly explained one thing and the same time I have also repeatedly explained one thing and all for more clarity. So don't take it as a waste and my issue here is your disciples who refuse to understand that bitcoin investment is classified into two categories which is Long Term investment and Short Term investment. In some point of your argument you also agreed with me and I also agreed with you. My main concern is your disciples who are misleading themselves.

Ruttoshi can you see a newbie user of Zozain explained the different between investment and trading? How can you categorized 4 years store of bitcoin in a wallet as trading. Who does that? Please don't go and argue this in your environment with someone who is very good with bitcoin investment and trading. And you need to leave forum and go and learn more about investment and trading before coming back to forum because you have been in this forum for about 3 years yet you don't know what is bitcoin investment. So if I keep my bitcoin of 0.09 in my wallet for 4 years and it hit 1.5 BTC and I am satisfied with it so I sold it and invest 80% again when the price goes down and you team it trading? Then you are still in the dream world of bitcoin investment.

JayJuanGee you don't have to make comment here. Let them defend themselves. Thanks.

[sotelorene]

It is not a new thing that buying bitcoin for a long term is the key success for an investors who has the understanding of bitcoin investment. And the subject makes.it clear for everyone here. It is to buy and it is to sell. In investment you buy and keep it for the period not time which is still low and once it is up to the time you will like to sell them you sell it and take your profits and this is the time of selling. Even if not all it is better to taste the $99k to the $100k then continue again for another All Time High for a long term investment. Investment should be on stages. And I think this is one of the stages to sell. Though it is not for all but those who like to.

Even though currently the price has almost reached 100K, for some people this price is not the main goal. Because bitcoin investment is an excellent store of value asset, many people who invest in bitcoin are not only looking for fiat profits, but the main factor is that bitcoin is an excellent store of value. So if you are a trader, maybe selling bitcoin right now is quite appropriate. But I won't do that, because I invested in bitcoin for a long time, so selling bitcoin now is the same as ruining my original mission.

Off cause $100k is not the main goal, it's just a new ATH and people were just anticipating to see it hit that amount and this great progress has really moved some people and even drag more attention to Bitcoin. Anyone who understands the potential of Bitcoin and has a big target won't make a mistake of selling there Bitcoin rather they will keep on accumulating and holding because it's really going to take anyone who sells his or her Bitcoin time to accumulate that same amount

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Yes, agree with you there are two categories of Bitcoin, long-term and short-term investment. And the main feature of these two investment methods is the amount of risk.

You really sound confused in terms of your repeating ideas that risk is changed based on timeline of the investment rather than position size and/or other aspect about the asset affecting assessments of risk, which also short term versus long term investing is starting to come across as a kind of unnecessarily and irrelevant kind of framing that takes us away from more important considerations of other things that any bitcoin investor might do.. or in your case you might be wanting to talk about trader, even though you are using the word "investor"

but you could invest a small amount of money and then you don't necessarily perceive that the amount that you invested is materially affecting you, so in that case

This part is true.  Adjustment of position size can be helpful otherwise balance out various cashflow considerations, including with actual investing we have the expression of not investing any more than you can afford to lose.. so that helps to remind folks to 1) take investment money from their discretionary income 2) consider their investment timeline to be 4-10 years or longer 3) the investment outcome is not guaranteed to go up so amount of the position should be adjusted to account for both negative and positive scenarios, even though surely no one is going to want to invest into anything that they consider to NOT have good odds of being worth more at the time that they are going to start to draw from it.

. Trading has different timing but not 4 years.

Trading is likely more defined by what a guy might be wanting to do with the proceeds when cashing out, buy back BTC at lower prices or consume it, or cash out forever... In bitcoin frequently we like to consider the fundamentals that involve its halvening cycle, so ideas of a minimum of 4 years helps to give ideas of minimum timelines for investing into bitcoin but merely having at least a 4 year timeline might not take a guy out of the trading category, even though surely the longer that a person plans to stay in bitcoin helps to create a presumption that he is investing rather than trading.

From my experience in cryptocurrency,

This is a bitcoin thread.  So who knows what you are talking about if you are referring to cryptocurrency.  If you did not use the word bitcoin, then do you even know what you are talking about? or did you just want to sound smarter by using a categorically descriptive word that fails to specify what you are talking about?

I have not encountered 4 years trading timing. In trading there there are 1m, 15m, 4h, 1d, 1w, 1month to infinity

You are referring to the various kinds of charts?  Getting into the weeds of how to trade seems pretty unnecessary, even though surely there are quite a few different kinds of styles of trading, including trading that works on shorter timelines and trading that may try to play BTC price waves on longer timelines. Surely, I am not going to claim to be an expert on trading strategies, especially since I consider trading bitcoin to be a pretty dumb idea, especially when there may end up being periods that the BTC price goes up and then the trader sells most if not all of his bitcoin, yet the BTC price still keeps going up, so such traders are going to end up not being as much in profits as the guy who just regularly bought bitcoin consistently, persistently and ongoingly, especially over a whole 4 year cycle or longer.. So far in bitcoin's history, the longer the guy had been investing by buying bitcoin consistently, persistently and ongoingly, the more likely that the performance of the BTC of such ongonig buyer is going to beat the guys who had been screwing around with trading.. and so it can be quite difficult for any traders to actually beat the BTC investor, especially on a longer timeline... but sure traders will frequently brag about their various profits, yet if we really look at how much money they might have put into bitcoin as compared to the ongoing buyer of BTC, they likely have not outperformed the ongoing buyer and they may well have significantly underperformed by multiples and/or magnitudes... which makes it seem really dumb as to why anyone should want to trade or try to trade one of the best, if not the best performing asset available on a wide-scale basis... and so it may well be quite rare that a trader in bitcoin will outperform a BTC investor, and perhaps any actual outperformance may be a result of luck rather than actual skill, since many of the trading techniques in practice that might be successful are largely difficult to replicate and even to justify spending so much time in learning such, when straight-forward ongoing, persistent and consistent buying of BTC has been replicable and quite profitable, so sometimes seems absurd that more profits would even be necessary....even though surely past performance does not guarantee future results, while at the same time bitcoin's investment thesis does not seem to be getting any weaker even though the upward slope of its price increases might be becoming less steep than past times.

JayJuanGee you don't have to make comment here. Let them defend themselves. Thanks.

You make it tempting to respond to you because some things you are saying seem to be quasi new points directed at me, characterizing my position(s) and even your proclaiming theories why some forum members are participating or choosing to not participate in this thread, but whatever, I will leave this one..  You get one freebie.. hahahahaha.   

[Cryptoprincess101]

It is not a new thing that buying bitcoin for a long term is the key success for an investors who has the understanding of bitcoin investment. And the subject makes.it clear for everyone here. It is to buy and it is to sell. In investment you buy and keep it for the period not time which is still low and once it is up to the time you will like to sell them you sell it and take your profits and this is the time of selling. Even if not all it is better to taste the $99k to the $100k then continue again for another All Time High for a long term investment. Investment should be on stages. And I think this is one of the stages to sell. Though it is not for all but those who like to.

Even though currently the price has almost reached 100K, for some people this price is not the main goal. Because bitcoin investment is an excellent store of value asset, many people who invest in bitcoin are not only looking for fiat profits, but the main factor is that bitcoin is an excellent store of value. So if you are a trader, maybe selling bitcoin right now is quite appropriate. But I won't do that, because I invested in bitcoin for a long time, so selling bitcoin now is the same as ruining my original mission.

Off cause $100k is not the main goal, it's just a new ATH and people were just anticipating to see it hit that amount and this great progress has really moved some people and even drag more attention to Bitcoin. Anyone who understands the potential of Bitcoin and has a big target won't make a mistake of selling there Bitcoin rather they will keep on accumulating and holding because it's really going to take anyone who sells his or her Bitcoin time to accumulate that same amount

You are not far from the truth, Bitcoin hitting $100k is not as if we have come to it's price peak but it's just like a milestone that many Bitcoin investors want to reach in order to have that feelings of optimism that the price will even break more ATHs no matter the time it comes and from the kind of news and excitement it will cause on the Internet when the price hits $100k will even cause a lot of investors who didn't give bitcoin any thought to consider coming back to invest and from the inflows that will enter the market, that is how to price will skyrocket above the $100k price mark. $100k is just like a stepping stone to greater achievements in our journey of Bitcoin adoption processes so it's not like if it is achieved that our target has been met, besides we are even anticipating the price to skyrocket and grow more in values.
         I know that some investors who have been HODLing for a long time now may want to consider selling part of their Bitcoin to take some profits from their investments when the price reaches $100k, but it all depends on when and how they feel about their investments so far and if they have gotten a good amount of Bitcoins in their portfolios. But even if some investors sell their Bitcoins, their will be more investors who will prefer to buy more Bitcoins and HODL.

[Tungbulu]

[edited out]

Yes, agree with you there are two categories of Bitcoin, long-term and short-term investment. And the main feature of these two investment methods is the amount of risk.

You really sound confused in terms of your repeating ideas that risk is changed based on timeline of the investment rather than position size and/or other aspect about the asset affecting assessments of risk, which also short term versus long term investing is starting to come across as a kind of unnecessarily and irrelevant kind of framing that takes us away from more important considerations of other things that any bitcoin investor might do.. or in your case you might be wanting to talk about trader, even though you are using the word "investor"

When we talk about Bitcoin, risk management is super important. The timeline of the investment may also be important too but it’s not paramount, because it’s just one aspect to consider too. It’s also important for investors to define their investment/financial goals and also do well to access their personal risk tolerance level, perhaps even before investing or making any big move. Are your objectives for investing aimed at long term growth, or you’re just after income, or maybe both of them combined, it’s important to know what you’re really investing for. Again, it’s also to important to know just how comfortable you are with the potential Bitcoin volatility. These are things to consider and put into adequate consideration.

When I hear about short term investment strategy in Bitcoin, the only thing that comes into my mind is trading, which is a total red flag when investing in Bitcoin, reasons because it becomes to risky when one chooses to gamble with his assets all in the name of making short term profits and the chances of losses drastically increases the more one engages in this activity. Bitcoin is a volatile asset and attempting to predict its short term performance could in fact turn out to be disastrous as it could result to unintended losses. Thus, the only safe approach to investing in Bitcoin remains the long term approach ALONE, because that’s the only way an investor can actually reap the actual benefits of Investing in Bitcoin.