Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[Yablee0]

A person should invest only when he already has an emergency fund ready. Especially in the case of investing in Bitcoin. Because if a person does not have an emergency but he invests in Bitcoin, then the investment in Bitcoin will not be long-term.

This is a very wrong conception about this whole bitcoin stuff, it is not  that mandatory that you must first have an emergency funds in place before investing in bitcoin because in bitcoin journey every single seconds wasted or delayed is like a treasure been thrown in to the river and can never be retrieved back. However, always endeavor to invest even with the little discretionary funds in your disposal then along the line you can start accumulating or building up your emergency funds in preparation for real life problems that will later come up.

Furthermore, delay or excuses in setting emergency funds in place before investing is always what gives room for procrastination and along the line if not careful you end up becoming a no coiner.

[Bluedrem]

A person should invest only when he already has an emergency fund ready. Especially in the case of investing in Bitcoin. Because if a person does not have an emergency but he invests in Bitcoin, then the investment in Bitcoin will not be long-term. And if the investment in Bitcoin is not long-term, the possibility of earning profit from it also decreases because it may need to be sold at any moment. It is necessary to sell it at a time when Bitcoin is at a price much lower than its professional level, but that investment will be damaged.

You do not necessarily need an emergency fund built out prior to your investing into bitcoin, you only need to be sure of having discretionary income. Emergency fund can be built alongside you accumulating bitcoin. A long as you are sure of having discretionary income, you should start, there is no need delaying your bitcoin investment simply because you are putting your emergency fund in place, such delays are not healthy to your accumulation journey and you would miss out on opportunities of getting a descent portfolio for yourself while you are busy stacking up emergency fund at a time you should've started buying and holding bitcoin and getting better at managing your cashflow while you simultaneously build your emergency fund and other variances of backup funds.

It is worse if you are piling up fiat as emergency fund while delaying the start of your accumulation journey, fiat is subject to inflation and depreciation over time and by the time you're done, the value of your fiat may have reduced considerably compared to the level of success you would have recorded if you started out buying and holding bitcoin with available discretionary income.

Therefore, the prerequisite for a person to invest in Bitcoin is to prepare an emergency fund.

No, it is not a pre-requisite, you got this all wrong

I didn't mean to imply that investing without an emergency fund is impossible. I just wanted to emphasize the importance of an emergency fund in long-term investing. When a person invests in Bitcoin, they are told to invest for the long term. When another person invests in a DCA, after managing the DCA for a long time, their Bitcoin portfolio becomes rich, so they have to keep their invested money in Bitcoin for a long time. In that case, if a person invests beyond their discretionary income or does not create an emergency fund along with the investment, then in case of emergency, they may have to sell their Bitcoin portfolio. That is why I wanted to say that if they want to make their Bitcoin investment long-term, then they definitely need to have an emergency fund with which they can meet the financial shortfall in times of emergency.

[Showlove01]

Emergency funds are must for everyone whether he is investing in Bitcoin or not.

For no coiners having emergency is a choice and not a must. The essence why we emphasis that investors should have emergency funds is to protect their bitcoin investment, so if you don't have bitcoin you will decide whether to have emergency funds or to have. Since you already know the concept behind emergency funds, there is no need stressing further. A no coiner who have his money saved up in cash deposit will always fall back to his cash reserve to solve his emergencies. You only set up an emergency funds when you have an investment you want to protect for a long time that you don't want to tamper with.

With all sincererity having an emergency funds should be considered a necessity and not compulsory even when you don't have an investment that you are protecting, having an emergency funds even without having an investment you are protecting will give us a higher level of financial stability naturally it gives another layer of protecting your financial responsibilities as a reference purpose, a no coiner that have a saved up money in cash can as well have a separate funds as an emergency funds which will serve for the purposes of emergency when the needs arises which is different from just deeping your hands in to your saved up money.

I totally agree with you emergency funds is very vital to have and it is both compulsory and necessary and people who don't forget to keep this emergency funds are planned and disciplined folks. There are people who think ahead in life and there also people that doesn't and those who think ahead of life are the ones that set out things and make it ready in case there is emergency in the future because surely there will always be trials even when we don't want to see any.

[Scarlett_23]

Exactly, emergency funds should only be use for emergency and nothing more because if emergency arises and there is no funds to use to remedy it, the only option left would be to temper with Bitcoin that is in their portfolio because of lack of preparation and poor orientation because someone who is orientatied would know that he needs to keep emergency funds in case of emergency and the problem again is that some folks are very negligence they don't really care about emergency funds and they feel they can handle everything when something comes up but a wise and Real investor will never wait for this time before they prepare.

Emergency funds are must for everyone whether he is investing in Bitcoin or not. It's a good practise to separate some money for emergency funds that we can use in case of emergency. Life is very uncertain and emergencies don't arrive with prior intimation that's why we need to remain ready to face them. We can invest in Bitcoin with consistency and for long term only if we have money to fulfil daily requirements and emergency funds to counter the emergencies. That's why it's recommended to invest in Bitcoin with discretionary income.   

You are right, in fact, everyone should create an emergency fund so that they can use it in any negative situation in their life. Because if someone does not have an emergency fund, then in this case he will definitely have to take a loan to face any adverse situation. And if that person has investments, then he will be forced to break them to face that situation.

For this, financial planning is necessary before investing. Even if there is no problem with market fluctuations, many times wrong financial planning becomes the reason for withdrawing from investment.

Just as an emergency fund is necessary if you are involved in investing, it is not right to underestimate the importance of an emergency fund even if you are not investing.

[Fuso.hp]

Exactly, emergency funds should only be use for emergency and nothing more because if emergency arises and there is no funds to use to remedy it, the only option left would be to temper with Bitcoin that is in their portfolio because of lack of preparation and poor orientation because someone who is orientatied would know that he needs to keep emergency funds in case of emergency and the problem again is that some folks are very negligence they don't really care about emergency funds and they feel they can handle everything when something comes up but a wise and Real investor will never wait for this time before they prepare.

An emergency fund is a separate financial support that is used in times of financial need. For example, if an investor is investing in a long-term plan, he creates a separate fund. He continues to invest until he runs into financial problems and builds up his emergency fund. But when he runs into financial problems and needs a relatively large amount of money, he will be able to meet that financial need by using his emergency fund. If the investor did not have financial support or an emergency fund, then he would have thought for a while that it was important to meet this need first and then he could have decided to sell his investment. Therefore, an emergency fund plays a big role in ensuring the continuity of investment and ensuring that the investment can be maintained for a long time.

[Bigjoe33]

An emergency fund is a separate financial support that is used in times of financial need. For example, if an investor is investing in a long-term plan, he creates a separate fund. He continues to invest until he runs into financial problems and builds up his emergency fund.

Your last line is worrisome. And I must say that It is wrong for an investor to wait until he runs into a financial problem before he begins to build his emergency funds, No! This is a wrong investment approach and can put your investment at the risk of collapse or unprepared sell. The right thing is that, once an investor is able to figure out his discretionary income and with it starts his investment journey, he should, while keeping up his investment also gradually build up his emergency funds simultaneously. This will enable him handle financial or emergency situations that may arise. Waiting till you experience a financial problem before you start building your emergency funds is very wrong as you wouldn't have anything to fall on when the emergency comes, and this might push you to tap from your Hodling.

[ejikeme24]

For no coiners having emergency is a choice and not a must. The essence why we emphasis that investors should have emergency funds is to protect their bitcoin investment, so if you don't have bitcoin you will decide whether to have emergency funds or to have. Since you already know the concept behind emergency funds, there is no need stressing further. A no coiner who have his money saved up in cash deposit will always fall back to his cash reserve to solve his emergencies. You only set up an emergency funds when you have an investment you want to protect for a long time that you don't want to tamper with.

Can you even hear yourself speak?  Buddy wether you are a no coiner or not Emergency fund is very essential to have as a human being, because you need it just in case Emergencies arises, so that there will be emergency fund to handle those emergencies.

It seems that you don't understand what @ 7juju is actually trying to say, he's actually talking about no coiner not an investor. However, I totally agree with him because I see no reason why a no coiner would chose to build emergency funds instead of building his discretionary income, the question is for what reason are you building the emergency fund for when you currently do not have any investment/ or business that is floating? You see that building emergency funds when you currently do not have any investment floating is obviously a waste. So @7juju is actually correct when he said that having emergency funds as a no coiner seems to be optional since there's no investment at hand where having emergency funds is considered very important but in this case there's nothing like that.

[durg0319]

Exactly, emergency funds should only be use for emergency and nothing more because if emergency arises and there is no funds to use to remedy it, the only option left would be to temper with Bitcoin that is in their portfolio because of lack of preparation and poor orientation because someone who is orientatied would know that he needs to keep emergency funds in case of emergency and the problem again is that some folks are very negligence they don't really care about emergency funds and they feel they can handle everything when something comes up but a wise and Real investor will never wait for this time before they prepare.

An emergency fund is a separate financial support that is used in times of financial need. For example, if an investor is investing in a long-term plan, he creates a separate fund. He continues to invest until he runs into financial problems and builds up his emergency fund. But when he runs into financial problems and needs a relatively large amount of money, he will be able to meet that financial need by using his emergency fund. If the investor did not have financial support or an emergency fund, then he would have thought for a while that it was important to meet this need first and then he could have decided to sell his investment. Therefore, an emergency fund plays a big role in ensuring the continuity of investment and ensuring that the investment can be maintained for a long time.

An emergency funds allows an investor to pursue their long term goals without any reason or fear of sudden setback. Having this fund make someone make decisions in a calmer manner, letting investments grow naturally instead of reacting to crises. True financial wisdom is not just about earning or investing, but about creating stability that protects your vision and patience. With such preparation, challenges become manageable, and investments can flourish naturally. In this sense, an emergency fund transforms uncertainty into opportunity and discipline into freedom.

[Derekfunds]

An emergency fund is a separate financial support that is used in times of financial need. For example, if an investor is investing in a long-term plan, he creates a separate fund. He continues to invest until he runs into financial problems and builds up his emergency fund.

Your last line is worrisome. And I must say that It is wrong for an investor to wait until he runs into a financial problem before he begins to build his emergency funds, No! This is a wrong investment approach and can put your investment at the risk of collapse or unprepared sell. The right thing is that, once an investor is able to figure out his discretionary income and with it starts his investment journey, he should, while keeping up his investment also gradually build up his emergency funds simultaneously. This will enable him handle financial or emergency situations that may arise. Waiting till you experience a financial problem before you start building your emergency funds is very wrong as you wouldn't have anything to fall on when the emergency comes, and this might push you to tap from your Hodling.

You are right @Bigjoe33 even though we don't need to first keep or save emergency funds before kick-starting our investment but we should not wait untill there is a financial problem or challenge before we would start running around on how to settle the challenge because that is not the right thing to do and it is an improper learning or understanding because if that is the case you would have no option than to sell off some of your investment which is wrong and not advisable that is why we need to be wise and brave in our investment.

[Jostern]

It is problematic to be overly generalizing experienced investors and novice investors.  Some folks are fast learners and sometimes folks have experiences in other fields besides investing that can be translated into bitcoin investing.

Some folks also do not learn very fast and even continue to make similar mistakes and/or do not try to learn as they go.. 

Of course one of the reasons that several of us emphasize getting started investing into bitcoin as soon as possible is because we recognize and appreciate the value of experience to help guide a newbie in their bitcoin journey and to make the learning more likely and more concrete.. so surely, experience helps, even though getting experience does not automatically mean that the investor is learning and improving each time he makes a mistake.  Some investors might not even recognize certain mistakes that they had made until several years down the road.

Well I must say it’s quite difficult to overly analyze and categorize them into one perspective, because you can emphasize and understand that their sense of reasoning is quite different in the sense that I don’t really understand why most investors would mostly want to apply so much experience when it comes to investing in Bitcoin, having an adequate understanding or experience doesn’t still guarantee anything when it comes to investing and buying bitcoin, which is why basic knowledge is just important on how to buy and hold bitcoin and how to safeguard our Bitcoin investment.

Perhaps I could actually consider having those little understanding and knowledge about Bitcoin and how to make investments and stay consistent and hold Bitcoin for a very long period of time, making mistakes are normal but how we can react after making that mistakes is what really matters most, and some individuals finds it difficult to learn things very fast which is why it can be important to just buy bitcoin, probably by learning from someone who knows how to go about buying bitcoin, I would prioritize buying bitcoin automatically and immediately without wasting of any time.

[Cgrexp]

An emergency funds allows an investor to pursue their long term goals without any reason or fear of sudden setback. Having this fund make someone make decisions in a calmer manner, letting investments grow naturally instead of reacting to crises. True financial wisdom is not just about earning or investing, but about creating stability that protects your vision and patience. With such preparation, challenges become manageable, and investments can flourish naturally. In this sense, an emergency fund transforms uncertainty into opportunity and discipline into freedom.

It is necessary to build an emergency fund when investing in Bitcoin. Everyone needs to determine for themselves how much emergency or backup fund they can confidently continue with and have enough discretionary funds. It is not necessary to build up a full fund before starting to invest. However, it is important to make sure that there is enough discretionary funds to start with, and investing with absolutely zero backup funds becomes almost like gambling. Therefore, it is necessary to have some level of backup fund to ensure that the investment is made from discretionary funds, not from money to meet basic needs.

[JayJuanGee]

Exactly, emergency funds should only be use for emergency and nothing more because if emergency arises and there is no funds to use to remedy it, the only option left would be to temper with Bitcoin that is in their portfolio because of lack of preparation and poor orientation because someone who is orientatied would know that he needs to keep emergency funds in case of emergency and the problem again is that some folks are very negligence they don't really care about emergency funds and they feel they can handle everything when something comes up but a wise and Real investor will never wait for this time before they prepare.

Emergency funds are must for everyone whether he is investing in Bitcoin or not.

Yeah.. but we are talking about bitcoin... and protecting our bitcoin investment, so there is a certain kind of targeted way of applying the situation... so that hopefully we never have to tap into our bitcoin at a time that is not completely of our own choosing.

I will concede that people will ikely have a week or two or maybe even up to 6 weeks of back up funds to cover their expenses.. and so yeah, that could be an "emergency fund" to the extent that they might not have any other place that they can draw upon if some kind of an emergency were to happen or merely just a period of time that the income goes down and/or the expenses go up.

It's a good practise to separate some money for emergency funds that we can use in case of emergency. Life is very uncertain and emergencies don't arrive with prior intimation that's why we need to remain ready to face them.

Some fluctuations and uncertainties in expenses and/or income might be somewhat known in advance.. so that would not really be emergency, even though extra funds might be needed to account for those kinds of anticipated possible fluctuations that may or may not end up actually happening.

We can invest in Bitcoin with consistency and for long term only if we have money to fulfil daily requirements and emergency funds to counter the emergencies. That's why it's recommended to invest in Bitcoin with discretionary income.   

Of course. Discretionary income is used to invest, consume and/or save.. so each week or month (depending on frequencies of getting paid) income will come in and calculations might be made regarding how much is needed to cover various basic expenses before determining how much is left that would be considered to be discretionary funds.  Also the discretionary funds from the past had likely been used to consume, invest and/or save, and the consumption ones would be totally gone or almost totally gone depending on what they were spent on.. It they were spent to buy a blender, then the blender may still have value, but not the same amount of value that it was bought for when it was new.  so from the investment and savings, with bitcoin we are trying to protect that investment.. or at least protecting our bitcoin seems that it should be a priority for someone who is serious about bitcoin, even though there will be variation.  Usually the savings would be emergency funds and/or reserves with the reserves having more flexibility for how it is used, even to buy bitcoin.  Usually the idea of emergency funds, is that it would not be available for buying bitcoin unless it maybe is high in amount and potentially misclassified as emergency funds when it is really reserves.. yet each of us should have some sense that we do not want our cash to go below certain limits absent some kind of an actual emergency event, so yeah, we would not buy bitcoin with emergency funds since buying bitcoin should not be considered an emergency, even if the price might have dipped to "bargain" levels.

Emergency funds are must for everyone whether he is investing in Bitcoin or not.

For no coiners having emergency is a choice and not a must. The essence why we emphasis that investors should have emergency funds is to protect their bitcoin investment, so if you don't have bitcoin you will decide whether to have emergency funds or to have. Since you already know the concept behind emergency funds, there is no need stressing further. A no coiner who have his money saved up in cash deposit will always fall back to his cash reserve to solve his emergencies. You only set up an emergency funds when you have an investment you want to protect for a long time that you don't want to tamper with.

How can somebody say emergency funds is a must? Are you going to report somebody to the authority because they don't have an emergency funds? What you can say is that emergency funds are essential for everybody especially when you have a long term project like Bitcoin investment that you won't like emergency expenses to compel you to sell prematurely. Anybody that has money to buy Bitcoin can no doubt do so whether you have discretionary funds or not but without discretionary funds from where emergency funds and Bitcoin accumulation funds are supposed to come out from you are not qualified for long term hodl. Financial management is important if you want to succeed to be buying and hold for a long term, without extra money from your income to be funding your discretionary funds you cannot succeed as "a long term investor"

Whether we call them emergency funds or back up funds or even extra cash, there is some need for a certain amount of this extra cash in order to provide some assurance that we are not investing beyond our discretionary income.. The idea of not having any extra cash means that you spent all of it, so then you have to wait until your next paycheck before you have any money.  That is ridiculous for anyone, and even more ridiculous for someone who is trying to protect his bitcoin from having to tap into them at a time that is not completely of their own choosing.. and if bitcoin is the ONLY investment, then bitcoin is the ONLY place to go if some shortage in cash comes.. so then the bitcoin would be serving as the emergency funds.. which surely is not a good place for anyone who is poor or who is relatively early in his bitcoin building process.

On the other hand, if a person had been building his bitcoin stash for a couple of cycles and maybe he has 2x to 5x or even more of the value of his annual expenses in bitcoin, then he is not greatly prejudiced by ailing/refusing to keep any back up funds and even using his bitcoin as his back up funds.  Sure, he would be better off to keep some cash, but the fact that his BTC stash is fairly large, he is not going to be greatly damaged if he might haqve to sell some extra bitcoin, yet he might be regretting his choices if the bitcoin price goes shooting down and then all of a sudden he has cash shortages. so guys have to figure their level of risk and how much damage might happen, and it seems to me that many newbies and even poor people will end up making bad choices, even thinking that their bitcoin stash is getting large when it has not even gotten to a point of covering a year of their expenses. 

Frequently, I personally will consider that bitcoin stash is at fuck you status if it is worth 10x or more of the annual expenses at the 200-WMA valuation.. so if a guy currently wants an income of $80k per year from his bitcoin, then right now, he would need to have at least 14.2184 BTC to be at the threshold level, so maybe if a guy has something close to that level of bitcoin with those aspirations to draw $80k per year from his bitcoin, then maybe he does not need to have any extra back up funds if he also has income coming in from other sources (like he had not yet quit his current job).

There are various ways to have back up funds, and surely poor people and/or even guys who are early in their bitcoin accumulation journey, they are likely gong to need to be more cautious and even more purposeful to make sure that they have back up funds and even to a high enough level and they are protecting their bitcoin and even ongoingly protecting their ability to ongoingly (such as weekly) continue to grow their quantity of bitcoin..

In the end, guys can do whatever they like and if guys are sloppy in regards to those questions of back up funds and protections, then they may well end up getting themselves in trouble in terms of their bitcoin holdings or even serving as bad role models for others, since they may well be involved in gambling with their bitcoin rather than actually investing in a way that ensures both the protection and the ongoing building of their bitcoin stash.

For no coiners having emergency is a choice and not a must. The essence why we emphasis that investors should have emergency funds is to protect their bitcoin investment, so if you don't have bitcoin you will decide whether to have emergency funds or to have. Since you already know the concept behind emergency funds, there is no need stressing further. A no coiner who have his money saved up in cash deposit will always fall back to his cash reserve to solve his emergencies. You only set up an emergency funds when you have an investment you want to protect for a long time that you don't want to tamper with.

Can you even hear yourself speak?  Buddy wether you are a no coiner or not Emergency fund is very essential to have as a human being, because you need it just in case Emergencies arises, so that there will be emergency fund to handle those emergencies.

It seems that you don't understand what @ 7juju is actually trying to say, he's actually talking about no coiner not an investor. However, I totally agree with him because I see no reason why a no coiner would chose to build emergency funds instead of building his discretionary income, the question is for what reason are you building the emergency fund for when you currently do not have any investment/ or business that is floating? You see that building emergency funds when you currently do not have any investment floating is obviously a waste. So @7juju is actually correct when he said that having emergency funds as a no coiner seems to be optional since there's no investment at hand where having emergency funds is considered very important but in this case there's nothing like that.

It might be difficult to consider what might be good for no coiners, unless we are comparing no coiners to coiners, so that we can understand and appreciate the point and the contrast that might be being made.

We surely have people who are at various points in their bitcoin accumulation journey.. and so a no coiner might also be considered a precoiner and a low coiner could be engaging in all of the practices that are available to him to build his bitcoin stash, even though he considers himself to still not have enough bitcoin.  There might also be low coiners who are more whimpy (and perhaps less serious) in their bitcoin accumulation journey.

We cannot necessarily completely capture the details of where someone might be in relation to his bitcoin journey - even though surely many of us likely consider that building a bitcoin stash is an important thing for everyone, even though some folks might be more challenged in the process including  that they might not have a lot of discretionary income that allows them more choices in regards to building bitcoin, building back up funds and also being able to consume discretionarily in a way that does not contribute twoards their being deprived in their consumption levels.

It is problematic to be overly generalizing experienced investors and novice investors.  Some folks are fast learners and sometimes folks have experiences in other fields besides investing that can be translated into bitcoin investing.

Some folks also do not learn very fast and even continue to make similar mistakes and/or do not try to learn as they go.. 

Of course one of the reasons that several of us emphasize getting started investing into bitcoin as soon as possible is because we recognize and appreciate the value of experience to help guide a newbie in their bitcoin journey and to make the learning more likely and more concrete.. so surely, experience helps, even though getting experience does not automatically mean that the investor is learning and improving each time he makes a mistake.  Some investors might not even recognize certain mistakes that they had made until several years down the road.

Well I must say it’s quite difficult to overly analyze and categorize them into one perspective, because you can emphasize and understand that their sense of reasoning is quite different in the sense that I don’t really understand why most investors would mostly want to apply so much experience when it comes to investing in Bitcoin, having an adequate understanding or experience doesn’t still guarantee anything when it comes to investing and buying bitcoin, which is why basic knowledge is just important on how to buy and hold bitcoin and how to safeguard our Bitcoin investment.

You are likely correct to the extent that you are suggesting that high level skills are not necessary in order to get into bitcoin and also to put solid bitcoin buying and solid cashflow management practices in place... yet, even though some folks are faster learners than others, we still should not be poo-pooing the value of experience, even though some folks might have a lot of bad habits and then their experience might be just reinforcing their bad habits if they are not able to identify and work towards improving their bad habits..

Perhaps I could actually consider having those little understanding and knowledge about Bitcoin and how to make investments and stay consistent and hold Bitcoin for a very long period of time, making mistakes are normal but how we can react after making that mistakes is what really matters most, and some individuals finds it difficult to learn things very fast which is why it can be important to just buy bitcoin, probably by learning from someone who knows how to go about buying bitcoin, I would prioritize buying bitcoin automatically and immediately without wasting of any time.

For sure, many of us consider getting started to be very important even if some folks are faster learners than others.  Sometimes we have guys who are brand new to the forum and brand new to bitcoin, and within a short-period of time, they are really showing that they are grappling with the topic of bitcoin investment and putting bitcoin investment into practice in a way that they are clearly learning and/or even bringing some of their investment and cashflow management experiences that they might have had prior to their getting into bitcoin.

When I came to bitcoin in late 2013, I had around 20-ish years of experience in both investing and cashflow management practices, and so I attempted to apply several of those practices in my early stages of my bitcoin accumulation journey, and sure some of the practices and knowledge that I had gotten from my earlier experiences fit right into bitcoin, yet there were various other particulars about bitcoin that influenced my continued learning and even having to make some adjustments in regards to what I had been doing previously. 

So there were aspects of my life that had changed by the time I came to bitcoin that were not completely related to bitcoin, and I would have had to make some of those adjustments whether I had come across bitcoin or not, so I couldn't have completely applied my earlier experiences to bitcoin as I might have had been doing 10 or 15 years earlier, since my situation was not the same as it had been 10 or 15 years earlier.  So any adaptings that we do at various points in our bitcoin journey are likely going to have several imperfections, and even new places in which we might be vulnerable to making errors, even if we had some related experiences... and surely the more aggressive that we choose to be might also bring more potentials for errors or even identifying limits that we know to exist in regards to how aggressive that we might be ready, willing and/or able to be. 

Surely, there may be some guys who get complacent or even think that they have learned everything or maybe they are applying wrong frameworks to new experiences, so we can attempt to have some humbleness in our approach so that we might be more able to identify and apply some new learnings and/or sometimes even be able to experiment in ways that we had not previously attempted based on our being in a better place, whether based on our experiences or based on a new place that we had put ourselves... and even thinking back, there were some areas in which I consider that I made some fairly big "rookie" mistakes, yet I had not even completely realized that I was making rookie mistakes, which means that they should have had been places where I could have had and should have had easily identified. 

Let me give an example. In mid-to-late 2015, I had been slowly accumulating bitcoin for most of the year (even though I had some cashflow problems), and the BTC price had stayed in the $220 to $250 range for almost the whole year.. and so around May or June my cashflow management had improved, and I continued to buy bitcoin with perhaps around 50% of my authorized amount, and so  since I had been beat up so much from bitcoin's price drop from all the way from $1,200 to $200 in 2014 and even lingering into 2015, I thought that it would be prudent for me to hold back some money for buying the dip, and in the end, my holding back of 50% for further dips was too much. .since the amount was getting to be a lot since it was building up from June, July, August, September and October, so by the time late October came, the BTC price pretty much went up from $300 to $500 in a very short period of time (maybe over 2-3 weeks), and in early November, I ended up using around 80% of my saved up funds to buy right around $500 (the top for that price spurt), and then I felt like I was totally out of money.. even though the BTC price ended up quickly correcting back to $300 and then it ended up mostly getting stuck in the lower $400s for about 5 months before it went back over $500... so I ended up getting emotional and making mistakes, and I probably should have had been using that money the whole time prior to the November 2015 price spurt, and I probably should not have had panic bought because the BTC price nearly doubled in a short period of time... and so I ended up learning from that event so that I would not repeat that same kind of a mistake again.

[Crytohillss]

Exactly, emergency funds should only be use for emergency and nothing more because if emergency arises and there is no funds to use to remedy it, the only option left would be to temper with Bitcoin that is in their portfolio because of lack of preparation and poor orientation because someone who is orientatied would know that he needs to keep emergency funds in case of emergency and the problem again is that some folks are very negligence they don't really care about emergency funds and they feel they can handle everything when something comes up but a wise and Real investor will never wait for this time before they prepare.

Emergency funds are must for everyone whether he is investing in Bitcoin or not.

Yeah.. but we are talking about bitcoin... and protecting our bitcoin investment, so there is a certain kind of targeted way of applying the situation... so that hopefully we never have to tap into our bitcoin at a time that is not completely of our own choosing.

I will concede that people will ikely have a week or two or maybe even up to 6 weeks of back up funds to cover their expenses.. and so yeah, that could be an "emergency fund" to the extent that they might not have any other place that they can draw upon if some kind of an emergency were to happen or merely just a period of time that the income goes down and/or the expenses go up.

It's a good practise to separate some money for emergency funds that we can use in case of emergency. Life is very uncertain and emergencies don't arrive with prior intimation that's why we need to remain ready to face them.

Some fluctuations and uncertainties in expenses and/or income might be somewhat known in advance.. so that would not really be emergency, even though extra funds might be needed to account for those kinds of anticipated possible fluctuations that may or may not end up actually happening.

We can invest in Bitcoin with consistency and for long term only if we have money to fulfil daily requirements and emergency funds to counter the emergencies. That's why it's recommended to invest in Bitcoin with discretionary income.   

Of course. Discretionary income is used to invest, consume and/or save.. so each week or month (depending on frequencies of getting paid) income will come in and calculations might be made regarding how much is needed to cover various basic expenses before determining how much is left that would be considered to be discretionary funds.  Also the discretionary funds from the past had likely been used to consume, invest and/or save, and the consumption ones would be totally gone or almost totally gone depending on what they were spent on.. It they were spent to buy a blender, then the blender may still have value, but not the same amount of value that it was bought for when it was new.  so from the investment and savings, with bitcoin we are trying to protect that investment.. or at least protecting our bitcoin seems that it should be a priority for someone who is serious about bitcoin, even though there will be variation.  Usually the savings would be emergency funds and/or reserves with the reserves having more flexibility for how it is used, even to buy bitcoin.  Usually the idea of emergency funds, is that it would not be available for buying bitcoin unless it maybe is high in amount and potentially misclassified as emergency funds when it is really reserves.. yet each of us should have some sense that we do not want our cash to go below certain limits absent some kind of an actual emergency event, so yeah, we would not buy bitcoin with emergency funds since buying bitcoin should not be considered an emergency, even if the price might have dipped to "bargain" levels.

Emergency funds are must for everyone whether he is investing in Bitcoin or not.

For no coiners having emergency is a choice and not a must. The essence why we emphasis that investors should have emergency funds is to protect their bitcoin investment, so if you don't have bitcoin you will decide whether to have emergency funds or to have. Since you already know the concept behind emergency funds, there is no need stressing further. A no coiner who have his money saved up in cash deposit will always fall back to his cash reserve to solve his emergencies. You only set up an emergency funds when you have an investment you want to protect for a long time that you don't want to tamper with.

How can somebody say emergency funds is a must? Are you going to report somebody to the authority because they don't have an emergency funds? What you can say is that emergency funds are essential for everybody especially when you have a long term project like Bitcoin investment that you won't like emergency expenses to compel you to sell prematurely. Anybody that has money to buy Bitcoin can no doubt do so whether you have discretionary funds or not but without discretionary funds from where emergency funds and Bitcoin accumulation funds are supposed to come out from you are not qualified for long term hodl. Financial management is important if you want to succeed to be buying and hold for a long term, without extra money from your income to be funding your discretionary funds you cannot succeed as "a long term investor"

Whether we call them emergency funds or back up funds or even extra cash, there is some need for a certain amount of this extra cash in order to provide some assurance that we are not investing beyond our discretionary income.. The idea of not having any extra cash means that you spent all of it, so then you have to wait until your next paycheck before you have any money.  That is ridiculous for anyone, and even more ridiculous for someone who is trying to protect his bitcoin from having to tap into them at a time that is not completely of their own choosing.. and if bitcoin is the ONLY investment, then bitcoin is the ONLY place to go if some shortage in cash comes.. so then the bitcoin would be serving as the emergency funds.. which surely is not a good place for anyone who is poor or who is relatively early in his bitcoin building process.

On the other hand, if a person had been building his bitcoin stash for a couple of cycles and maybe he has 2x to 5x or even more of the value of his annual expenses in bitcoin, then he is not greatly prejudiced by ailing/refusing to keep any back up funds and even using his bitcoin as his back up funds.  Sure, he would be better off to keep some cash, but the fact that his BTC stash is fairly large, he is not going to be greatly damaged if he might haqve to sell some extra bitcoin, yet he might be regretting his choices if the bitcoin price goes shooting down and then all of a sudden he has cash shortages. so guys have to figure their level of risk and how much damage might happen, and it seems to me that many newbies and even poor people will end up making bad choices, even thinking that their bitcoin stash is getting large when it has not even gotten to a point of covering a year of their expenses. 

Frequently, I personally will consider that bitcoin stash is at fuck you status if it is worth 10x or more of the annual expenses at the 200-WMA valuation.. so if a guy currently wants an income of $80k per year from his bitcoin, then right now, he would need to have at least 14.2184 BTC to be at the threshold level, so maybe if a guy has something close to that level of bitcoin with those aspirations to draw $80k per year from his bitcoin, then maybe he does not need to have any extra back up funds if he also has income coming in from other sources (like he had not yet quit his current job).

There are various ways to have back up funds, and surely poor people and/or even guys who are early in their bitcoin accumulation journey, they are likely gong to need to be more cautious and even more purposeful to make sure that they have back up funds and even to a high enough level and they are protecting their bitcoin and even ongoingly protecting their ability to ongoingly (such as weekly) continue to grow their quantity of bitcoin..

In the end, guys can do whatever they like and if guys are sloppy in regards to those questions of back up funds and protections, then they may well end up getting themselves in trouble in terms of their bitcoin holdings or even serving as bad role models for others, since they may well be involved in gambling with their bitcoin rather than actually investing in a way that ensures both the protection and the ongoing building of their bitcoin stash.

For no coiners having emergency is a choice and not a must. The essence why we emphasis that investors should have emergency funds is to protect their bitcoin investment, so if you don't have bitcoin you will decide whether to have emergency funds or to have. Since you already know the concept behind emergency funds, there is no need stressing further. A no coiner who have his money saved up in cash deposit will always fall back to his cash reserve to solve his emergencies. You only set up an emergency funds when you have an investment you want to protect for a long time that you don't want to tamper with.

Can you even hear yourself speak?  Buddy wether you are a no coiner or not Emergency fund is very essential to have as a human being, because you need it just in case Emergencies arises, so that there will be emergency fund to handle those emergencies.

It seems that you don't understand what @ 7juju is actually trying to say, he's actually talking about no coiner not an investor. However, I totally agree with him because I see no reason why a no coiner would chose to build emergency funds instead of building his discretionary income, the question is for what reason are you building the emergency fund for when you currently do not have any investment/ or business that is floating? You see that building emergency funds when you currently do not have any investment floating is obviously a waste. So @7juju is actually correct when he said that having emergency funds as a no coiner seems to be optional since there's no investment at hand where having emergency funds is considered very important but in this case there's nothing like that.

It might be difficult to consider what might be good for no coiners, unless we are comparing no coiners to coiners, so that we can understand and appreciate the point and the contrast that might be being made.

We surely have people who are at various points in their bitcoin accumulation journey.. and so a no coiner might also be considered a precoiner and a low coiner could be engaging in all of the practices that are available to him to build his bitcoin stash, even though he considers himself to still not have enough bitcoin.  There might also be low coiners who are more whimpy (and perhaps less serious) in their bitcoin accumulation journey.

We cannot necessarily completely capture the details of where someone might be in relation to his bitcoin journey - even though surely many of us likely consider that building a bitcoin stash is an important thing for everyone, even though some folks might be more challenged in the process including  that they might not have a lot of discretionary income that allows them more choices in regards to building bitcoin, building back up funds and also being able to consume discretionarily in a way that does not contribute twoards their being deprived in their consumption levels.

It is problematic to be overly generalizing experienced investors and novice investors.  Some folks are fast learners and sometimes folks have experiences in other fields besides investing that can be translated into bitcoin investing.

Some folks also do not learn very fast and even continue to make similar mistakes and/or do not try to learn as they go.. 

Of course one of the reasons that several of us emphasize getting started investing into bitcoin as soon as possible is because we recognize and appreciate the value of experience to help guide a newbie in their bitcoin journey and to make the learning more likely and more concrete.. so surely, experience helps, even though getting experience does not automatically mean that the investor is learning and improving each time he makes a mistake.  Some investors might not even recognize certain mistakes that they had made until several years down the road.

Well I must say it’s quite difficult to overly analyze and categorize them into one perspective, because you can emphasize and understand that their sense of reasoning is quite different in the sense that I don’t really understand why most investors would mostly want to apply so much experience when it comes to investing in Bitcoin, having an adequate understanding or experience doesn’t still guarantee anything when it comes to investing and buying bitcoin, which is why basic knowledge is just important on how to buy and hold bitcoin and how to safeguard our Bitcoin investment.

You are likely correct to the extent that you are suggesting that high level skills are not necessary in order to get into bitcoin and also to put solid bitcoin buying and solid cashflow management practices in place... yet, even though some folks are faster learners than others, we still should not be poo-pooing the value of experience, even though some folks might have a lot of bad habits and then their experience might be just reinforcing their bad habits if they are not able to identify and work towards improving their bad habits..

Perhaps I could actually consider having those little understanding and knowledge about Bitcoin and how to make investments and stay consistent and hold Bitcoin for a very long period of time, making mistakes are normal but how we can react after making that mistakes is what really matters most, and some individuals finds it difficult to learn things very fast which is why it can be important to just buy bitcoin, probably by learning from someone who knows how to go about buying bitcoin, I would prioritize buying bitcoin automatically and immediately without wasting of any time.

For sure, many of us consider getting started to be very important even if some folks are faster learners than others.  Sometimes we have guys who are brand new to the forum and brand new to bitcoin, and within a short-period of time, they are really showing that they are grappling with the topic of bitcoin investment and putting bitcoin investment into practice in a way that they are clearly learning and/or even bringing some of their investment and cashflow management experiences that they might have had prior to their getting into bitcoin.

When I came to bitcoin in late 2013, I had around 20-ish years of experience in both investing and cashflow management practices, and so I attempted to apply several of those practices in my early stages of my bitcoin accumulation journey, and sure some of the practices and knowledge that I had gotten from my earlier experiences fit right into bitcoin, yet there were various other particulars about bitcoin that influenced my continued learning and even having to make some adjustments in regards to what I had been doing previously. 

So there were aspects of my life that had changed by the time I came to bitcoin that were not completely related to bitcoin, and I would have had to make some of those adjustments whether I had come across bitcoin or not, so I couldn't have completely applied my earlier experiences to bitcoin as I might have had been doing 10 or 15 years earlier, since my situation was not the same as it had been 10 or 15 years earlier.  So any adaptings that we do at various points in our bitcoin journey are likely going to have several imperfections, and even new places in which we might be vulnerable to making errors, even if we had some related experiences... and surely the more aggressive that we choose to be might also bring more potentials for errors or even identifying limits that we know to exist in regards to how aggressive that we might be ready, willing and/or able to be. 

Surely, there may be some guys who get complacent or even think that they have learned everything or maybe they are applying wrong frameworks to new experiences, so we can attempt to have some humbleness in our approach so that we might be more able to identify and apply some new learnings and/or sometimes even be able to experiment in ways that we had not previously attempted based on our being in a better place, whether based on our experiences or based on a new place that we had put ourselves... and even thinking back, there were some areas in which I consider that I made some fairly big "rookie" mistakes, yet I had not even completely realized that I was making rookie mistakes, which means that they should have had been places where I could have had and should have had easily identified. 

Let me give an example. In mid-to-late 2015, I had been slowly accumulating bitcoin for most of the year (even though I had some cashflow problems), and the BTC price had stayed in the $220 to $250 range for almost the whole year.. and so around May or June my cashflow management had improved, and I continued to buy bitcoin with perhaps around 50% of my authorized amount, and so  since I had been beat up so much from bitcoin's price drop from all the way from $1,200 to $200 in 2014 and even lingering into 2015, I thought that it would be prudent for me to hold back some money for buying the dip, and in the end, my holding back of 50% for further dips was too much. .since the amount was getting to be a lot since it was building up from June, July, August, September and October, so by the time late October came, the BTC price pretty much went up from $300 to $500 in a very short period of time (maybe over 2-3 weeks), and in early November, I ended up using around 80% of my saved up funds to buy right around $500 (the top for that price spurt), and then I felt like I was totally out of money.. even though the BTC price ended up quickly correcting back to $300 and then it ended up mostly getting stuck in the lower $400s for about 5 months before it went back over $500... so I ended up getting emotional and making mistakes, and I probably should have had been using that money the whole time prior to the November 2015 price spurt, and I probably should not have had panic bought because the BTC price nearly doubled in a short period of time... and so I ended up learning from that event so that I would not repeat that same kind of a mistake again.

Using your investment like bitcoin as a fallback just shows lack of planning, a good investors knows that preparation is ultimate having that cushion ready can saves one from panic decisions discipline today prevent stress tomorrow, emergency funds are not meant to be temper if you dip your bitcoin investment every period some thing happen it defeats the whole planning so emergency funds is your safety net.

[Gentle_Soul]

If you have not cover your daily need and has put some money set aside for emergencies, investing will be stressful.  You will start watching price every minute, hoping it pumps because you need it to pump. That is not investing, you are just pressuring yourself.

For a person who has not yet covered his expenses and is apportioning funds for emergency, he is doing a very wrong thing and would still withdraw those funds to settle his needs when the time comes and if such a person is investing into bitcoin, then he is investing wrongly since it is obvious he does not have discretionary income. Being able to settle your needs in your greatest responsibility and when your cashflow is such that you can take care of your expenses comfortably and still have discretionary income remaining, then you can start investing in bitcoin and building out backup funds.

Emergency fund gives peace of mind. It allows you to invest and continue investing without fear.

Talking about peace of mind, it is achieved by investing with your discretionary income since you wouldn't be under any pressure while investing and you are doing so with money you would not be needing anytime soon and as such you can go long term in holding bitcoin. Emergency fund is also necessary to be built alongside your accumulating bitcoin since it would be there as a lifeline preventing your investment from being tampered when real emergencies shows up.

One does not need to be dependent on a particular source of income so for me I don't mind hold my Bitcoin for even if it's two decades because instead of withdrawing my Bitcoin I increase my holdings in Bitcoin and that's because do it as if my savings truthfully speaking  I invest in Bitcoin only with funds that can be kept for a very long period of time without being touched. People don't really know that holding Bitcoin in investment for a very long time is profitable.i don't know why people don't hold on there investment maybe they investmented with the wrong funds and got to a point where they need that funds by all means so they couldn't hold back any longer.

[Tonimez]

[Edited out]

One does not need to be dependent on a particular source of income so for me I don't mind hold my Bitcoin for even if it's two decades because instead of withdrawing my Bitcoin I increase my holdings in Bitcoin and that's because do it as if my savings truthfully speaking  I invest in Bitcoin only with funds that can be kept for a very long period of time without being touched. People don't really know that holding Bitcoin in investment for a very long time is profitable.i don't know why people don't hold on there investment maybe they investmented with the wrong funds and got to a point where they need that funds by all means so they couldn't hold back any longer.

Well, I would say that everyone loves to have multiple sources of income but not everyone has what it takes to have multiple sources of income sometimes due to personal lapses. However, knowing how to manage your finances very well is the first right step to take if you must succeed in bitcoin investment. Discretionary income is very important in bitcoin HODLing process and I would refer to any investment made outside the wits of a discretionary income as a bad investment. When an old wine is added to a new wine, it corrupts the entire wine. This is what happens when an investor starts to invest beyond his discretionary income.

For me, I would say there are 3 things to do in order to become a bitcoin investor....

1. You must own a discretionary income: This is very important to avoid a financial stress on the investor and allows him to attend to his basic responsibilities too.

2. You must have created an emergency funds/Back up funds: this serves as a cushion to your bitcoin stash. It is a fall back plan when an unforeseen circumstances happen which could ordinarily cause a premature sales of bitcoin.

3. You must have the willingness to invest and HODL: Many people who are not into bitcoin investment to day is due to the absence of the willpower to invest their excess funds because most of them still believe that bitcoin is a scam. Willingness to invest is very important and it's very crucial to how successfully an investor would hold his bitcoin portfolio without panicking.

[Furious 7]

I totally agree with you emergency funds is very vital to have and it is both compulsory and necessary and people who don't forget to keep this emergency funds are planned and disciplined folks. There are people who think ahead in life and there also people that doesn't and those who think ahead of life are the ones that set out things and make it ready in case there is emergency in the future because surely there will always be trials even when we don't want to see any.

Regardless of whether we invest or not, emergency funds must still exist because this can indeed be a situation where we can need something urgently without us expecting it so that emergency funds must indeed have a budget in financial management.
But sometimes some of us misinterpret emergency funds where some people are sometimes still confused and consider emergency funds as a fund that is used to buy bitcoin but the main purpose of emergency funds is not for this.

Whereas the funds for investing should be funds that can indeed be specialized directly for investing or maybe funds that do come from income that we are ready to spend, then surely this will be different between emergency funds and funds that we can invest but sometimes some people are still wrong in the initial assumption that we can spend emergency funds on bitcoin.

[Jatiluhung]

It is really a good point , however I believe being aggressive isn't a bad thing.one just needs to apply wisdom in other not to over do it. when one is being passive, it can make one to miss out in market opportunities.so one really needs to exercise self control in other not to overdo  it ,before it turns into gambling. So it will be good if one can be agrrevise with a good strategy. Also one should be able to identify his or her limits in other not to over stretched themselves, don't make decisions that is moved or based on emotions and also we should know our risk tolerance.we should be able to strike a balance because this is what distinguish an investor from a trader

Being aggressive is actually not a problem as long as you are aware of the risks involved and you are using money that has been specifically set aside for investment in bitcoin. Even if it is for the long term, there is no need to worry about the price you are buying at today.

The way to stay safe even with an aggressive approach is to master risk management and manage your money well with sound money management. This means that the money used has been specifically set aside for bitcoin accumulation, for example. So whether we do it with DCA, or by averaging down every time there is a decline, or even with aggressive buying, it won't be a problem. Because it's money for the long term, and whatever the price is today, I'm sure it will look cheap in 10 years' time. For me, long-term investment itself exceeds 10 years. Because for me, when talking about long-term investment, it means preparation for my old age or when I retire from my current job. Or for the future of my children someday.

Being aggressive is only not allowed for those who do not have special funds prepared and are not ready for the risks taken or even do not know the risks they will face.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Using your investment like bitcoin as a fallback just shows lack of planning, a good investors knows that preparation is ultimate having that cushion ready can saves one from panic decisions discipline today prevent stress tomorrow, emergency funds are not meant to be temper if you dip your bitcoin investment every period some thing happen it defeats the whole planning so emergency funds is your safety net.

Part of my point is that the larger that you have grown your bitcoin holdings, the more options that you have, and someone who is poor will likely not have as much flexibility as someone who is rich, especially if their bitcoin holdings are in the multiple of years of their expenses versus someone who is poor who might not even have a month of his expenses.

There are better and worse practices, yet if we act as if everyone has to do everything the same, then we are likely failing to engage in our own independent thinking about either the cashflow management strengthening topic and/or the bitcoin portfolio building and/or management topic in ways that individuals can tailor to their circumstances, whether they end up making mistakes or not.

Yeah, when we are a beginner or if we are poor, we likely need to be more stringent in our practices, yet we are still free to tailor our practices and to recognize various options that we gain as we build our wealth.. and sure there are some folks who would not be able to handle flexibility since they will likely screw up an otherwise good system, yet there are still needs for each of us to think for ourselves and to put our systems into practice, even if we might end up going overboard in our ways of implementing our systems/practices..

[Just Say]

. If we are investment-oriented then of course buying cheap Bitcoin would be a good advantage but whether or not the unexpected moment will ever happen or can happen is also not sufficiently accurate.

Time's without numbers, it has been stated very clearly by sir jayguangee in this thread that buying the dip is not a problem if you are not waiting for it before buying, you should be buying and accumulating consistently regardless of it price and when the dip comes, you can still buy aggressively with your reserve funds or with your available discretionary income then, because that's the best way to go.
Where the problem are is waiting for a dip that may never come, which might compel you to miss a whole lot of buying opportunities since no one knows what may happen to the price of Bitcoin in the next few minutes or hours, so buying and accumulating without paying attention to it price is the best way to accumulate a good stash of Bitcoin, not by trying to play smart and wait for a dip instead of buying once your discretionary income is available.

Explicitly see, my interpretation of the statement was not different from what you analyzed. Actually, buying on dips is not a problem if you don't wait before buying. If someone consistently buys only waiting for a specific dip before starting, in my view they may end up not buying Bitcoin at all, just delaying the investment with excuses. No one can say where the price of Bitcoin can reach or fall in the next few minutes or hours, so the initial step is to start regardless of the price, so the first thing to do is to choose what the next step is for the person because even though the market always gives opportunities, not everyone can take them due to weak mentality. So Futurexxx you have said the right thing that the best way to exploit the market downturn is to buy aggressively with reserve funds or available discretionary income but before that, we need to put the right systems into practice and achieve consistency in creating a balanced digital gold Portfolio through the right steps.

[AprilioMP]

Using your investment like bitcoin as a fallback just shows lack of planning, a good investors knows that preparation is ultimate having that cushion ready can saves one from panic decisions discipline today prevent stress tomorrow, emergency funds are not meant to be temper if you dip your bitcoin investment every period some thing happen it defeats the whole planning so emergency funds is your safety net.

[edited out]

Yeah, when we are a beginner or if we are poor, we likely need to be more stringent in our practices, yet we are still free to tailor our practices and to recognize various options that we gain as we build our wealth.. and sure there are some folks who would not be able to handle flexibility since they will likely screw up an otherwise good system, yet there are still needs for each of us to think for ourselves and to put our systems into practice, even if we might end up going overboard in our ways of implementing our systems/practices..

If our Bitcoin ownership is small, wealth follows the amount of Bitcoin ownership if the benchmark is how much Bitcoin ownership is.
Good practices will produce good results too. Poverty can be reduced, although not completely eliminated.

I admit that the two paragraphs above hit the target in essence regarding practice because as in the first paragraph, it shows the meaning of freedom where we do not have to claim someone's wealth.
The point from the second paragraph in your post that I snip shows is that management will be able to save everything, not only the physical, but the non-physical, such as thinking will be wiser so that it will form a good personality in an economic context. This is not a supposed conclusion but rather what I understand.