Road to 100k?

[JayJuanGee]

Who knows a time will come when bitcoin investors with good portfolio size might outsmart the rich who inveted only in tradition investment in wealth because of the price of itcoin at that time. A lot of people that did not invest in bitcoin now will regret it in future when bitcoin price will be very expensive to buy just as those who didn't buy bitcoin when the price range was $100-$1000 are regretting currently.

The time has already come for those who have largely been accumulating and holding bitcoin to have had greatly outperformed the no coiners and low coiners. Bitcoin has been outperforming every other investment asset and/or currency over the past 13 years, and there is no evidence to suggest that bitcoin's outperformance of various traditional assets/currencies is not going to continue.

It is like the expression:  "we are going to win."  That expression is incorrect in its temporal assertion, since we are already winning and we have been winning, and so the longer that any of us has been concentrating on bitcoin and mostly accumulating bitcoin (whether DCA or other strategies of lump sum buying and/or buying the dip), the more the BTC accumulator/HODLers have been winning and likely going to continue to win. 

Of course, there are no guarantees that bitcoin will continue to win for the accumulators and hodlers, since past performance does not guarantee future results, even though past performance up until this particular point already has shown and established bitcoin as performing better than any other asset/currency, especially if we are considering timelines of 4-10 years or longer. 

We can also consider bitcoin as broadly and widely available to everyone and anyone, even though surely with any investment there is a need to have an ability to invest in terms of having a disposable income, yet at the same time, no one has been excluded from owning bitcoin - even though surely there are some potential technological barriers in terms of having some kind of access to the internet, yet still being able to invest in bitcoin has been fairly available across the world, even though geographical locations could cause some challenges for some folks to actually buy bitcoin from certain remote locations and if some technology might not be available.. yet I am not sure if there are ways to resolve those kinds of matters in regards to how available an investment is.. such as bitcoin.. There are some advantages that come from learning about something in order to be able to participate in it.

[edited out]

Bitcoin investment might arguably not be the best investment in the world, but it is surely a good one, and its accumulation is held greatly in preference to some concerns which is mostly shitcoins investment, trading, government interference and hoarding fiat.

I am having trouble understanding which investments might be better than bitcoin, especially if we are talking longer term, such as 4-10 years or longer.

Other people might have their conviction in investing in real Estates or even Agriculture which is still profitable too.

Some people might need to invest into something to help them to generate an income, so sometimes business men might need to roll over profits from their business into keeping building and expanding the business, which might be the best for their own situation in terms of being able to earn an income, since something like bitcoin requires a disposable income otherwise the advantages of investing 4-10 years or more could not be realized.

When I have discussions with friends who have different investment mindsets, I simply ask them if they have money set aside for savings and they do not intend using anytime soon and does not affect their living activities. when they respond in affirmation, I introduce accumulating bitcoin another way to help them save their spare money for a longer period of time instead of just hoarding it in the banks and we are good. I don't convince them to stop their own investments, I only let them see bitcoin as a way of preserving their funds from devaluation, investing spare funds and in turn getting good profits in the long run.

That is fair enough.  There are some folks who might already be investing and/or saving, and for them, bitcoin can supplement what they are already doing to potentially complement what they are already doing, yet like you suggested, they need to have some level of discretionary income first, and I would suggest that they need a 4-10 year or longer timeline to invest into bitcoin if they want to come into bitcoin as an investment rather than merely attempting to trade it.

Agree, there's no guarantee with bitcoin in terms of gaining profit. Since if someone claim that they could give you a sure profits with bitcoin then ask you to go with them, start to doubt with that since provably they have bad intentions with you.

I presume that your ascertion that there's no guarantee with Bitcoin investment in terms of making profit is just a function of trying not to become too ambitious with what you're expecting from your Bitcoin investment. Even though there might not be 100% guarantee in Bitcoin investment (which is similar to all the other investment choices), there's still at least an 80% guarantee that Bitcoin is a good store of value and that if you buy Bitcoin and HODL it for the long term at this current price, you will be in profit. I wouldn't advice anyone to go all out trying to convince people to invest in Bitcoin with promises of getting massive returns from it but at a set out date but for the long run and using the DCA methord, I can comfortably talk anyone into investing as long as I'm certain the person has a long term intention in view.

You might be correct that the odds for bitcoin performing well is fairly high, such as 80%, yet I have some difficulties in terms of placing any kind of exact value on it, except maybe that it seems to be greater than 50/50, so that justifies investing into it.  The most that you can lose is 100%, yet there are a lot of upside scenarios within various timelines, so even if our investment timeline might be 4-10 years or greater, than maybe we might suggest that there are pretty good chances that we will be profitable within such timeline, both in terms of the dollar (fiat) value of bitcoin, yet it will also account for the debasement of the currency, so the odds are greater than 50/50 that we would be in a better place to have had invested into bitcoin as compared with not investing into bitcoin.  In order to have an investment thesis, I am not sure if you need more than that, even though sure, you might be right that a number greater than 50% (even approaching 80%) could be reasonably asserted.

For example, when I got into bitcoin in late 2013, I was hoping that I would at least be able to achieve a nominal return of at least 6% per year (which was similar to my then historical average over the previous 20-ish years.  Yet at the same time, I did not have any kind of an exact timeline that I was considering staying in bitcoin, and I also appreciated that there were scenarios in which I might not achieve my wish, so I was ready, willing and able to lose 100% of what I was putting into the investment.  So, personally, it seems to me that the reason that I invested into bitcoin was that I was thinking that the odds over a longer period of time (not specified at that time) would be that I would have greater than 50/50 chances to have better returns by putting value into bitcoin as compared with putting the value into the traditional investments that were then available to me (the ones that I had historically been investing into that tended to average around 6% per year over the previous 20 years-ish). 

It seems to me that if I had assigned 80% odds of such returns, then I might have had been more irresponsible in the way that I invested into bitcoin. Actually, I did not exactly figure out my bitcoin allocation target until I had already been in bitcoin for about a year (by about late 2014), so then I established that my target was going to be 10% of my quasi-liquid portfolio into bitcoin.. and so yeah, I ended up overallocating by the time I was in bitcoin for nearly 2 years I was up to about a 13.5% allocation into bitcoin... so I am not sure if my behaviors reflected that I had thoughts of more than 50/50 odds that bitcoin would outperform my other investments.

What makes bitcoin good  is less supply and it have huge demand so we can really look forward for more pump with this coin.

Bitcoin is not like the coin out there that just pumps because of some random hype that comes about due to seasonal demand. The demand for Bitcoin has been at an high rate right from the past and till date, Bitcoin is still in high demand and in addition to that, Bitcoin also has a lot of added quality apart from demand and it limited number in circulation which is what has helped it to remain dorminant throughout all these years it has stayed. Of course when you add all the uniqueness that comes with Bitcoin, you just know why it stands out and shouldn't for any reason by compaired to all the coin in circulation.

It can be difficult to try to articulate why the strength of bitcoin's investment thesis goes beyond just the pump and dump attributes of various shitcoins, and not merely because bitcoin was first, yet likely that if any kind of project (or coin) were to actually overcome bitcoin's protocol layer lead, then it would have to both improve upon bitcoin, but also would likely need to be at least 10x better than bitcoin in order to take over its network effects and to become the leader.  So far, there has been no other coin or project that has come close to either just matching bitcoin or showing itself to be 10x better than bitcoin in order to actually take bitcoin out of its protocol layer leadership position.

[SuperBitMan]

Who knows a time will come when bitcoin investors with good portfolio size might outsmart the rich who inveted only in tradition investment in wealth because of the price of itcoin at that time. A lot of people that did not invest in bitcoin now will regret it in future when bitcoin price will be very expensive to buy just as those who didn't buy bitcoin when the price range was $100-$1000 are regretting currently.

The time has already come for those who have largely been accumulating and holding bitcoin to have had greatly outperformed the no coiners and low coiners. Bitcoin has been outperforming every other investment asset and/or currency over the past 13 years, and there is no evidence to suggest that bitcoin's outperformance of various traditional assets/currencies is not going to continue.

It is like the expression:  "we are going to win."  That expression is incorrect in its temporal assertion, since we are already winning and we have been winning, and so the longer that any of us has been concentrating on bitcoin and mostly accumulating bitcoin (whether DCA or other strategies of lump sum buying and/or buying the dip), the more the BTC accumulator/HODLers have been winning and likely going to continue to win. 

Of course, there are no guarantees that bitcoin will continue to win for the accumulators and hodlers, since past performance does not guarantee future results, even though past performance up until this particular point already has shown and established bitcoin as performing better than any other asset/currency, especially if we are considering timelines of 4-10 years or longer. 

We can also consider bitcoin as broadly and widely available to everyone and anyone, even though surely with any investment there is a need to have an ability to invest in terms of having a disposable income, yet at the same time, no one has been excluded from owning bitcoin - even though surely there are some potential technological barriers in terms of having some kind of access to the internet, yet still being able to invest in bitcoin has been fairly available across the world, even though geographical locations could cause some challenges for some folks to actually buy bitcoin from certain remote locations and if some technology might not be available.. yet I am not sure if there are ways to resolve those kinds of matters in regards to how available an investment is.. such as bitcoin.. There are some advantages that come from learning about something in order to be able to participate in it.

Bitcoin performing more better than other traditional assets and currency will continue because a lot of people are still much interested in Bitcoin and that is of it's highly decentralized nature and it security, some of my friends have said Bitcoin can be hacked and will be hacked one day and till now it has not been hacked and can never be hacked there's sure security in Bitcoin and is very safe and this is what a lot of people has seen in Bitcoin which is not in other traditional assets and currencies, a lot of government has tried to stop Bitcoin growth but it didn't work that shows Bitcoin is highly decentralized and independent and no government policy can bring it down but other traditional assets and currencies can be manipulated by government through there policies.

Yeah those accumulating and holding Bitcoin will always continue to win, we all know that when it comes to bitcoin investment one needs to be patient and like they say patience is virtue those that has always been patient with Bitcoin has always continue to win and they will keep winning because no one accumulating and holding for long term will regret doing that they always win and there testimonies is also part of the things drawing people to Bitcoin investment.
And yes is true that one can't be certain that those who are accumulating and holding will keep winning because one can't tell what may happen in the future however when trying to make up a concussion about something past results are always used sometimes to judge the out come and for Bitcoin it has a very good past result till date.

You are right, Bitcoin is available to who ever wishes to start investing on it there's nothing prevent anyone who wants to go into Bitcoin investment except like you said those that don't have access to Internet this can only be a problem to them in there geographical location and won't be same everywhere he or she goes meaning that there's still a chance for him or her to go into Bitcoin investment all he or she needs to do is move always from that location that has no internet to a location that has internet connection one good thing about Bitcoin investment is that everyone can choose to have access to it and one can accumulate little by little and that is an opportunity for everyone and a lot of people are already using it through the DCA strategy.

[I_Anime]

It can be difficult to try to articulate why the strength of bitcoin's investment thesis goes beyond just the pump and dump attributes of various shitcoins, and not merely because bitcoin was first, yet likely that if any kind of project (or coin) were to actually overcome bitcoin's protocol layer lead, then it would have to both improve upon bitcoin, but also would likely need to be at least 10x better than bitcoin in order to take over its network effects and to become the leader.  So far, there has been no other coin or project that has come close to either just matching bitcoin or showing itself to be 10x better than bitcoin in order to actually take bitcoin out of its protocol layer leadership position

To see such kind of project ( that would be better than bitcoin) would be indeed difficult , especially now and days alot of project usually endup being a shitty one, and telegram mini app ain't encouraging at all making Ton network to be the gateway of shit projects . Bitcoin is the main project with true community, bitcoin is not being controlled by anyone or owned by anyone is truly an community power project, because bitcoin is for every one that's why it kept proven to be one of the best investment so far and can't be compared to other shit projects with no purposes rather for their own gain ( pump and dump).

Some people might need to invest into something to help them to generate an income, so sometimes business men might need to roll over profits from their business into keeping building and expanding the business, which might be the best for their own situation in terms of being able to earn an income, since something like bitcoin requires a disposable income otherwise the advantages of investing 4-10 years or more could not be realized

That's why is advisable to invest money you know you can stay without using for long , using DCAing you would be able to put that off securing a better long-term investment in bitcoin,  that's why you have to keep building, by accumulating, and following the right procedures to be on track in your bitcoin investment.

[Samlucky O]

Even if someone tells me today that bitcoin will get to $2m before the end of next year, I will believe it.

Even though we don't doubt that bitcoin will increase in due time, we should also be more realistic to know that bitcoin can not just grow to $2m dollar In the space of 1 year. That would be a massive push of %millions. even as though it was just a speculation but it may not possible anytime soon.

Let's always remember that there will forever be 21 million or less bitcoin in circulation!!

That is the more reason why bitcoin still remain the best because it is limited in supply and will still remain scares as people lost more or as demand keep rising so do it also increase. Just like Satoshi Nakamoto once said Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more.  Think of it as a donation to everyone.

[Pi-network314159]

[edited out]

Bitcoin investment might arguably not be the best investment in the world, but it is surely a good one, and its accumulation is held greatly in preference to some concerns which is mostly shitcoins investment, trading, government interference and hoarding fiat.

I am having trouble understanding which investments might be better than bitcoin, especially if we are talking longer term, such as 4-10 years or longer.

I have done some research in regards to this explanation, but I still find it difficult to understand or know the exact investment that is more profitable than bitcoin.
1)  investing on stock or purchasing shears from bank does not give the profit that bitcoin gives in a year or 4 year timeframe.
2) staking coin to earn APY in a year will end up given %3 or 3.2 Roi in a year which can only be a profit made in 24hours of bitcoin movement
3) investment on bond and Mutua fund. this category are the set of people or union which contributes money and loan to an organisation withing a specific period, the profit amount in return will be ahead among the cooperative society. the interest will be shared according to the amount each an everyone has invested, which can't even match the profit bitcoin will hive. 
4) real estate and  exchange-traded fund (ETF) doesn't give the profit bitcoin can give.

Other people might have their conviction in investing in real Estates or even Agriculture which is still profitable too.

Some people might need to invest into something to help them to generate an income, so sometimes business men might need to roll over profits from their business into keeping building and expanding the business, which might be the best for their own situation in terms of being able to earn an income, since something like bitcoin requires a disposable income otherwise the advantages of investing 4-10 years or more could not be realized.

one thing for sure is that people might have different type of investment approach apart from bitcoin and Its not questionable. but the fact that it can be compeard to bitcoin is the fact I cant accept. you can not compare the profit of  a farmer or a person that invested on real estate with $10 around 2009 and a bitcoin investor who invested $10 in late 2009 till date that iswhen bitcoin was $0.00099 each according to research. let's say if 1 bitcoin= 0.00099 ×10000= 9.9. that is to say $10 worth of bitcoin in 2008 was 10000 bitcoin. today 10k BTC= $630millon if bitcoin is currently $63k. now tell me which kind of investment is more profitable. so bitcoin still remain the best when patient is involved in a longer period of time.

[Barikui1]

[edited out]

Bitcoin investment might arguably not be the best investment in the world, but it is surely a good one, and its accumulation is held greatly in preference to some concerns which is mostly shitcoins investment, trading, government interference and hoarding fiat.

I am having trouble understanding which investments might be better than bitcoin, especially if we are talking longer term, such as 4-10 years or longer.

I have done some research in regards to this explanation, but I still find it difficult to understand or know the exact investment that is more profitable than bitcoin.
1)  investing on stock or purchasing shears from bank does not give the profit that bitcoin gives in a year or 4 year timeframe.
2) staking coin to earn APY in a year will end up given %3 or 3.2 Roi in a year which can only be a profit made in 24hours of bitcoin movement
3) investment on bond and Mutua fund. this category are the set of people or union which contributes money and loan to an organisation withing a specific period, the profit amount in return will be ahead among the cooperative society. the interest will be shared according to the amount each an everyone has invested, which can't even match the profit bitcoin will hive.  
4) real estate and  exchange-traded fund (ETF) doesn't give the profit bitcoin can give.

Other people might have their conviction in investing in real Estates or even Agriculture which is still profitable too.

Some people might need to invest into something to help them to generate an income, so sometimes business men might need to roll over profits from their business into keeping building and expanding the business, which might be the best for their own situation in terms of being able to earn an income, since something like bitcoin requires a disposable income otherwise the advantages of investing 4-10 years or more could not be realized.

one thing for sure is that people might have different type of investment approach apart from bitcoin and Its not questionable. but the fact that it can be compeard to bitcoin is the fact I cant accept. you can not compare the profit of  a farmer or a person that invested on real estate with $10 around 2009 and a bitcoin investor who invested $10 in late 2009 till date that iswhen bitcoin was $0.00099 each according to research. let's say if 1 bitcoin= 0.00099 ×10000= 9.9. that is to say $10 worth of bitcoin in 2008 was 10000 bitcoin. today 10k BTC= $630millon if bitcoin is currently $63k. now tell me which kind of investment is more profitable. so bitcoin still remain the best when patient is involved in a longer period of time.

Bro in my own opinion here, I think that most investors will disagree with what you are actually saying here, I believe that it all boils down to how knowledgeable you are as a farmers or as a real estate investor, even in Bitcoin investment, not everyone knows how to get the best possible result in their Bitcoin investment, some Bitcoin investor tends to sell at every price increments without knowing that they can't achieve something big with that kind of approach, they don't know that in Bitcoin investment the longer you hold the more possibilities of achieving something big out of it.

But a large scale farmer that really knows the business and how to get the best possible result out of it will definitely achieve something great every end of the planting season, so in essence of what am trying to say is that bro, when it comes to investing in agriculture, what you can achieve in a short period of time can actually blow your mind if you know how the business is being run, just that investment in Bitcoin is less stressful and less expensive to carry out, compared to large scale farming.

[Callido]

Even if someone tells me today that bitcoin will get to $2m before the end of next year, I will believe it.

Even though we don't doubt that bitcoin will increase in due time, we should also be more realistic to know that bitcoin can not just grow to $2m dollar In the space of 1 year. That would be a massive push of %millions. even as though it was just a speculation but it may not possible anytime soon.

It is better if we prefer not to live in simulation, Bitcoin has the opportunity of conquering several prices but it is kind of an over exaggeration to completely ignore how the flow of Bitcoin prices move considering each phases of the market. Believing that Bitcoin can hit $2M by next year should be completely false, it is not possible even the price of $150K is still highly anticipated by then.

Over exaggeration has been a reason why investors are getting in balance (less or no profits) while investing, they invest too much of what they have in anticipation of making massive profits due to some rumored or questionable speculations that is likely not to happen and this tends to put them at risk.

[EclipseXcrypto]

Or are you going to keep accumulating and holding?. I keep wondering how much you have been using to accumulate for about 3 months now that have given you enough money as profit and you are begining to sound like a short term holder even though you said you have a long term thinking. Note: after halving doesn't guarantee 100 percent price increase it's just speculation so don't get it twisted.

Nothing in bitcoin guarantees BTC's price to increase, but the halvening of the issuance of bitcoin's new supply by half every 4 years does seem to put some upwardly price pressures on bitcoin, and surely maybe this time is different, yet I have my doubts.  We have had 3 previous halvenings in bitcoin and the BTC price did end up going up after each of the halvenings, and even this time we had BTC prices reaching ATHs prior to the halvening, but still that does not likely take away from actual physically fewer (half as many) bitcoin being issued for these next 4 years and we are still within the first 6 months after the halvening has already taken place... so the ongoing less issuance of new supply could well still be having an effect on the price to ongoingly put additional upwards price pressures on it within the laws of supply and demand in which if the supply is half yet the demand is equal and maybe even increasing, then it is hard to imagine why there wouldn't be continued upward price pressures on the BTC price based on such halvening of the new supply issuance..

Agree, there's no guarantee with bitcoin in terms of gaining profit. Since if someone claim that they could give you a sure profits with bitcoin then ask you to go with them, start to doubt with that since provably they have bad intentions with you.

But compare with bitcoin we have certain good chance to earn since if we based on past events those halving events really brought up great figures,demand and good exposure to bitcoin so for sure same with same like future events(halving) there would be more future great price insight to come which provably could give benefits to all holders.

What makes bitcoin good  is less supply and it have huge demand so we can really look forward for more pump with this coin.

There is a guarantee of profiting  from bitcoin over time when you invest for the long term. The growth potential of Bitcoin and its increasing global adoption can indeed lead to significant profits. Many have benefited and profited from its long-term growth and as more people recognise it's value the guarantee for profit increases.  Bitcoin investment is not about quick money, it's about consistent accumulation and holding for the long term. When you approach it with that mindset, it can definitely be profitable over time. Folks need to understand that Bitcoin investment yields profits after a long period of time. Approaching it with a short-term mindset can lead to disappointment, but that doesn’t mean it’s not profitable in the long term.

[Koadharber]

Or are you going to keep accumulating and holding?. I keep wondering how much you have been using to accumulate for about 3 months now that have given you enough money as profit and you are begining to sound like a short term holder even though you said you have a long term thinking. Note: after halving doesn't guarantee 100 percent price increase it's just speculation so don't get it twisted.

Nothing in bitcoin guarantees BTC's price to increase, but the halvening of the issuance of bitcoin's new supply by half every 4 years does seem to put some upwardly price pressures on bitcoin, and surely maybe this time is different, yet I have my doubts.  We have had 3 previous halvenings in bitcoin and the BTC price did end up going up after each of the halvenings, and even this time we had BTC prices reaching ATHs prior to the halvening, but still that does not likely take away from actual physically fewer (half as many) bitcoin being issued for these next 4 years and we are still within the first 6 months after the halvening has already taken place... so the ongoing less issuance of new supply could well still be having an effect on the price to ongoingly put additional upwards price pressures on it within the laws of supply and demand in which if the supply is half yet the demand is equal and maybe even increasing, then it is hard to imagine why there wouldn't be continued upward price pressures on the BTC price based on such halvening of the new supply issuance..

Agree, there's no guarantee with bitcoin in terms of gaining profit. Since if someone claim that they could give you a sure profits with bitcoin then ask you to go with them, start to doubt with that since provably they have bad intentions with you.

But compare with bitcoin we have certain good chance to earn since if we based on past events those halving events really brought up great figures,demand and good exposure to bitcoin so for sure same with same like future events(halving) there would be more future great price insight to come which provably could give benefits to all holders.

What makes bitcoin good  is less supply and it have huge demand so we can really look forward for more pump with this coin.

There is a guarantee of profiting  from bitcoin over time when you invest for the long term. The growth potential of Bitcoin and its increasing global adoption can indeed lead to significant profits. Many have benefited and profited from its long-term growth and as more people recognise it's value the guarantee for profit increases.  Bitcoin investment is not about quick money, it's about consistent accumulation and holding for the long term. When you approach it with that mindset, it can definitely be profitable over time. Folks need to understand that Bitcoin investment yields profits after a long period of time. Approaching it with a short-term mindset can lead to disappointment, but that doesn’t mean it’s not profitable in the long term.

Never ever make yourself be thinking about having guarantees when it comes to investing into Bitcoin or simply with crypto space. You should really be always having those considerations that you should really be that investing on the amount that you can afford to lose. No matter how potential we would be seeing this market but still it wont really be making out some guarantees that it will bring out some profits in the future. Always be considerate about the probabilities of the risks that it do have. We've been already that a decade+ old on which i cant blame out the community on why they would really be having such confidence towards Bitcoin or crypto investment or whatever that they do have in their portfolio. Focusing into Bitcoin then we can really say that $100k price isnt really that too far off to reach on.
There would really be those individuals who would really be that too optimistic on how high it would really be able to reach out but of course we arent that still on bull run yet and we would be seeing different
speculations towards the price.

[inearth]

Even if someone tells me today that bitcoin will get to $2m before the end of next year, I will believe it.

Even though we don't doubt that bitcoin will increase in due time, we should also be more realistic to know that bitcoin can not just grow to $2m dollar In the space of 1 year. That would be a massive push of %millions. even as though it was just a speculation but it may not possible anytime soon.

It is better if we prefer not to live in simulation, Bitcoin has the opportunity of conquering several prices but it is kind of an over exaggeration to completely ignore how the flow of Bitcoin prices move considering each phases of the market. Believing that Bitcoin can hit $2M by next year should be completely false, it is not possible even the price of $150K is still highly anticipated by then.

Over exaggeration has been a reason why investors are getting in balance (less or no profits) while investing, they invest too much of what they have in anticipation of making massive profits due to some rumored or questionable speculations that is likely not to happen and this tends to put them at risk.

None of us can predict the future price of Bitcoin, we don't know if Bitcoin will cross 70K within this year, it may even be that Bitcoin will cross 100K within this year. So instead of relying on all these unpredictable assumptions, we should continue to invest and hold using DCA from now on to achieve future profits. One should proceed with clear planning and proper research.

[Tungbulu]

When I have discussions with friends who have different investment mindsets, I simply ask them if they have money set aside for savings and they do not intend using anytime soon and does not affect their living activities. when they respond in affirmation, I introduce accumulating bitcoin another way to help them save their spare money for a longer period of time instead of just hoarding it in the banks and we are good. I don't convince them to stop their own investments, I only let them see bitcoin as a way of preserving their funds from devaluation, investing spare funds and in turn getting good profits in the long run.

That is fair enough.  There are some folks who might already be investing and/or saving, and for them, bitcoin can supplement what they are already doing to potentially complement what they are already doing, yet like you suggested, they need to have some level of discretionary income first, and I would suggest that they need a 4-10 year or longer timeline to invest into bitcoin if they want to come into bitcoin as an investment rather than merely attempting to trade it.

I think the problem is that, a lot people who go into Bitcoin investment often have a misguided mentality about Bitcoin investment, they often believe that Bitcoin investment is often one magical way to get rich overnight or some kind of a liquid asset that they can easily just buy at a low price, wait for a little while and then Boom, there's a sudden increase in the market price and then they sell off, making themselves some good profit. But in reality, it's quite the opposite.

In reality, Bitcoin is actually a very volatile and high risk investment, However also a high reward investment too but to enjoy this promised reward, the investor must be willing to exercise a great deal of patience, discipline and must also be willing to ride out short term market fluctuations by considering the asset's long term trajectory.
The volatility of Bitcoin can indeed be frustrating for those who do not really understand the dynamics of the asset, but for those who understand the underlying value proposition as well as its potential for long-term benefits, they'll surely reap its benefits.

One major misconception people (especially newbies) often have about Bitcoin is viewing it as a suitable asset for short term trading. So this pushes them to attempt to profit from the Bitcoin's daily price movement, but due to the fact that it's impossible to accurately predict the price of Bitcoin in the short-term, this approach mostly ends in financial disaster and disappointment. In contrast, those who consider Bitcoin to be a great way to store wealth and HODL through unfavorable market conditions, often reap the benefits in the long-term.

Another Misconception, I believe people often have about Bitcoin is the possibility that Bitcoin would replace the traditional fiat system, or a way to quickly fix the economy's financial downturns, meanwhile in reality, Bitcoin is more of a complimentary asset that has the ability to diversify portfolios and a great way to provide a shield to investors against inflation, possible downturns in the market and currency devaluation, and the sooner we correct these misconceptions, the more we have a better view of Bitcoin and its potentials.

[Tmoonz]

Even if someone tells me today that bitcoin will get to $2m before the end of next year, I will believe it.

Even though we don't doubt that bitcoin will increase in due time, we should also be more realistic to know that bitcoin can not just grow to $2m dollar In the space of 1 year. That would be a massive push of %millions. even as though it was just a speculation but it may not possible anytime soon.

It is better if we prefer not to live in simulation, Bitcoin has the opportunity of conquering several prices but it is kind of an over exaggeration to completely ignore how the flow of Bitcoin prices move considering each phases of the market. Believing that Bitcoin can hit $2M by next year should be completely false, it is not possible even the price of $150K is still highly anticipated by then.

Over exaggeration has been a reason why investors are getting in balance (less or no profits) while investing, they invest too much of what they have in anticipation of making massive profits due to some rumored or questionable speculations that is likely not to happen and this tends to put them at risk.

None of us can predict the future price of Bitcoin, we don't know if Bitcoin will cross 70K within this year, it may even be that Bitcoin will cross 100K within this year. So instead of relying on all these unpredictable assumptions, we should continue to invest and hold using DCA from now on to achieve future profits. One should proceed with clear planning and proper research.

 Bitcoin is a speculative asset, yeah there is nothing wrong with people speculations and predictions even though there is no guarantee or certainty as to that regards. However, how about you explain what you meant by proper research when it comes to Bitcoin, it is Bitcoin we are talking about here, it can be so retarding talking about making proper research when it comes to Bitcoin investing because there no better research other than being in the market while figuring out other things along the line, Bitcoin has incredibly performed beyond every reasonable doubt to be subjected towards making a proper research without getting fucking started.

[Pandu Geddon]

I think the problem is that, a lot people who go into Bitcoin investment often have a misguided mentality about Bitcoin investment, they often believe that Bitcoin investment is often one magical way to get rich overnight or some kind of a liquid asset that they can easily just buy at a low price, wait for a little while and then Boom, there's a sudden increase in the market price and then they sell off, making themselves some good profit. But in reality, it's quite the opposite.

That's just the view of novice investors. they don't know how people who are successful with Bitcoin actually have extraordinary determination and patience in managing their investments.
those who invest in Bitcoin because of hype and FOMO tend to panic easily when they see the market moving against their expectations. that's because they don't actually have any knowledge about the market.

There are indeed more Bitcoin enthusiasts today after seeing the price of Bitcoin increase very high in the last few years. people who used to look down on Bitcoin may now have some in their portfolio.
currently, people are talking about Bitcoin reaching a new ATH. and the situation will also be interesting for new investors to enter.

[Justbillywitt]

Even if someone tells me today that bitcoin will get to $2m before the end of next year, I will believe it.

Even though we don't doubt that bitcoin will increase in due time, we should also be more realistic to know that bitcoin can not just grow to $2m dollar In the space of 1 year. That would be a massive push of %millions. even as though it was just a speculation but it may not possible anytime soon.

Over exaggeration has been a reason why investors are getting in balance (less or no profits) while investing, they invest too much of what they have in anticipation of making massive profits due to some rumored or questionable speculations that is likely not to happen and this tends to put them at risk.

Any investor who is over investing more than his means is not a wise investor, because everyone who invests in bitcoin, be it for the short term or long term understand that before investing in bitcoin, there are certain things that's to be observed and one of it is, not investing more than certain percentage of your disposable income. So if there are any investors out there that's over investing more than he is supposed to invest,because of speculations made by people as him is not a wise investor, but an opportunist who is greedy and deserves whatever he gets at the end of the day. Even if such person gets into trouble I don't care.

 Because an investor should be wise enough to understand that speculations are just there to make people see the level at which other market players thinks bitcoin could be at that time frame. Those the people speculating never gave any guarantee that it would happen. So why would you go and over invest because of that, and blame it on others. If you are part of these sets of investors doing that, you have to refrain from such practice.

[Falconer]

-snip-

Bitcoin is a speculative asset, yeah there is nothing wrong with people speculations and predictions even though there is no guarantee or certainty as to that regards. However, how about you explain what you meant by proper research when it comes to Bitcoin, it is Bitcoin we are talking about here, it can be so retarding talking about making proper research when it comes to Bitcoin investing because there no better research other than being in the market while figuring out other things along the line, Bitcoin has incredibly performed beyond every reasonable doubt to be subjected towards making a proper research without getting fucking started.

What needs to be researched, trading volume or the best time to invest?
I think many of us already know that bitcoin is a well-performing investment asset so far and many people have invested millions of dollars in it over the years. What are we waiting for, the prices change all the time and it will be like that forever. If you want to get returns from bitcoin, then buy what you can and also in whatever amount you can afford to lose. Bitcoin is good as a long-term investment asset, even for your old age, so invest and develop your investment strategy over time.

[Tmoonz]

-snip-

Bitcoin is a speculative asset, yeah there is nothing wrong with people speculations and predictions even though there is no guarantee or certainty as to that regards. However, how about you explain what you meant by proper research when it comes to Bitcoin, it is Bitcoin we are talking about here, it can be so retarding talking about making proper research when it comes to Bitcoin investing because there no better research other than being in the market while figuring out other things along the line, Bitcoin has incredibly performed beyond every reasonable doubt to be subjected towards making a proper research without getting fucking started.

What needs to be researched, trading volume or the best time to invest?
I think many of us already know that bitcoin is a well-performing investment asset so far and many people have invested millions of dollars in it over the years. What are we waiting for, the prices change all the time and it will be like that forever. If you want to get returns from bitcoin, then buy what you can and also in whatever amount you can afford to lose. Bitcoin is good as a long-term investment asset, even for your old age, so invest and develop your investment strategy over time.

Talking about the best time to invest in Bitcoin,  because it is Bitcoin which has it's best potential being appreciated performed over long term perspective, there is no best time to invest in Bitcoin other than investing when there is money readily available for investment because and by definition the first best time was yesterday and the second best is today, such that figuring out or attempting to time the market can lead to procrastinating buying Bitcoin and missing good buying opportunities since the market can be very uncertain. DCA strategy helps in getting in the market on time without any form of timing the market.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Bitcoin investment might arguably not be the best investment in the world, but it is surely a good one, and its accumulation is held greatly in preference to some concerns which is mostly shitcoins investment, trading, government interference and hoarding fiat.

I am having trouble understanding which investments might be better than bitcoin, especially if we are talking longer term, such as 4-10 years or longer.

I have done some research in regards to this explanation, but I still find it difficult to understand or know the exact investment that is more profitable than bitcoin.
1)  investing on stock or purchasing shears from bank does not give the profit that bitcoin gives in a year or 4 year timeframe.
2) staking coin to earn APY in a year will end up given %3 or 3.2 Roi in a year which can only be a profit made in 24hours of bitcoin movement
3) investment on bond and Mutua fund. this category are the set of people or union which contributes money and loan to an organisation withing a specific period, the profit amount in return will be ahead among the cooperative society. the interest will be shared according to the amount each an everyone has invested, which can't even match the profit bitcoin will hive. 
4) real estate and  exchange-traded fund (ETF) doesn't give the profit bitcoin can give.

Other people might have their conviction in investing in real Estates or even Agriculture which is still profitable too.

Some people might need to invest into something to help them to generate an income, so sometimes business men might need to roll over profits from their business into keeping building and expanding the business, which might be the best for their own situation in terms of being able to earn an income, since something like bitcoin requires a disposable income otherwise the advantages of investing 4-10 years or more could not be realized.

one thing for sure is that people might have different type of investment approach apart from bitcoin and Its not questionable. but the fact that it can be compeard to bitcoin is the fact I cant accept. you can not compare the profit of  a farmer or a person that invested on real estate with $10 around 2009 and a bitcoin investor who invested $10 in late 2009 till date that iswhen bitcoin was $0.00099 each according to research. let's say if 1 bitcoin= 0.00099 ×10000= 9.9. that is to say $10 worth of bitcoin in 2008 was 10000 bitcoin. today 10k BTC= $630millon if bitcoin is currently $63k. now tell me which kind of investment is more profitable. so bitcoin still remain the best when patient is involved in a longer period of time.

I still have troubles suggesting to a business man to stop leveraging his skills and/or talents in building a business and invest into bitcoin.   Perhaps that the best we can attempt to do is to try to get those folks to hedge their bets a bit and to put some of their cashflow into bitcoin.

Even if someone tells me today that bitcoin will get to $2m before the end of next year, I will believe it.

Even though we don't doubt that bitcoin will increase in due time, we should also be more realistic to know that bitcoin can not just grow to $2m dollar In the space of 1 year. That would be a massive push of %millions. even as though it was just a speculation but it may not possible anytime soon.

It is better if we prefer not to live in simulation, Bitcoin has the opportunity of conquering several prices but it is kind of an over exaggeration to completely ignore how the flow of Bitcoin prices move considering each phases of the market. Believing that Bitcoin can hit $2M by next year should be completely false, it is not possible even the price of $150K is still highly anticipated by then.

Over exaggeration has been a reason why investors are getting in balance (less or no profits) while investing, they invest too much of what they have in anticipation of making massive profits due to some rumored or questionable speculations that is likely not to happen and this tends to put them at risk.

I will agree that $2 million in this cycle (lets say by the end of 2025 or perhaps into 2026 is likely less than a 0.5% odds,. but it is not impossible as you proclaim.

In late 2021, I did a probability outline, and you can look at it if you like.  I still stand by the strategy and the general numbers of that outline, even though maybe they might need to be tweaked a bit, and also anyone can make  their own outline.

Here it is for easy reference.

.....
Accordingly, I will currently (last revised December 16, 2021), in my opinion, I will place odds for UPside scenario within the below parameters:**

above $1.5 million  - unthinkable of most bullish of scenarios  -   about .5% odds

$800k to $1.5 million  - nearly most bullish of scenarios  -   about 2% odds

$650k to $800k  - aggressively highly bullish  -   about 4.25% odds

$450k to $650k  - Optimistically highly bullish  -   about 7.75% odds

$220k to $450k  - Moderately highly bullish  -   about 14.5% odds

$120k to $220k  - moderately bullish -   about 15.5% odds

$92k to $120k  - not very bullish -   about 5.5% odds

$62k to $92k  - Not getting through deadman's zone.. (and therefore having a top somewhere in this range)    -   about 5% odds

$52k to $62k  - Topping out in this pre-deadman's zone range, and not getting into deadman's zone - about 11.5% odds

DOWN from our current range of $45k to $52k as the top for this cycle  - most bearish - but surely possible with decent odds -   about 33.5% odds

**Note: that I have been providing these kinds of percentage frameworks as a proposed way to consider the assignments of percentages at any particular point in time.. .yet not so much for whether the percentages are accurate or even that they would be the same between one person and another person or that the assignments would be the same for the same person at time 1 versus time 2 after events might have occurred causing some justifications to change the percentage assignments.

As far as timeline: (last revised December 16, 2021)

Already peaked out in 2021 at $69k: 45%

Peaks out higher than $69k at some point in 2021: 2%

Peaks out 1st quarter 2022: 24%

Peaks out 2nd quarter 2022: 17%

Peaks out 3rd quarter 2022: 8.5%

Peaks out after 3rd quarter 2022 (such as 4th quarter but before 2nd quarter 2023): 3.5%

Peaks out after 2nd quarter 2023: 1%

........

In May 2022, I did downward scenarios too.. 

Downside Scenarios  (last revised May 19, 2022)  

As I type this downside scenario, we seem to largely staying within a $27k to $32k range, so it seems that the $25,401 bottom from May 11/12 is not currently being tested in any immediate sense.

To me it seems that after we have gone below the 100-week moving average (which is currently at $35k) and we have now been below the 100-weekMA for nearly two weeks.. we have transitioned from a bull market into a bear market... so the odds have become greater to break down than up... but still how far the BTC price breaks down is not exactly known in advance, either.

So consider the below assigned percentages as possible Downity scenario peaks from where we are at currently and where the peak of the bottom would end up being.. Based on ongoing downward momentum and even short-term bearish macro factors, at this time, I am going to ascribe our down odds for the whole down range at about 51% right now.. even though I am somewhat just stabbing in the dark, really...  But in the end, all my assignments of probability numbers (even though somewhat out of my ass) on the way down currently add up to 51%.  Note also that if the BTC price breaks further down, the numbers are likely going to need to revise.. but then at some point it might not be clear if the market might convert back from bearish to bullish.

Anyhow, here's a possible assignment percentages for where the bottom might occur from our current range bottom of $27k as I type.**

bottom of current $27k already reached and will not be breached - most timid of bearish scenarios  -   about 10% odds

$25.4k to $27k  - could happen bearish  -   about 12% odds

$22.5k to $25.4k  - pretty severe bearish  -   about 13.5% odds

$20k to $22.5k  - worser case bearish  -   about 8.5% odds

$17.5k to $20k  - a bit of a stretch bearish  -   about 3.75% odds

$13k to $17.5k  - overly bearish -   about 2% odds

$10k to $13k  - way overly bearish -   about 0.75% odds

below $10k  - not very likely but possible -   less than 0.5% odds

I also did a revise range in which I put greater than $2.5 million at 0.5%.. but my $2 million number was within a range that I had given to be 2%. . so maybe I might need to revise that.. but it is still capturing my opinion that there is a way to account for that there are not non-zero chances for some of the outrageous ends of the price range.

Let's say that we presume that a new ATH comes on or before the end of 2025, then what would the amount of the ATH be and what would be the odds of reaching (but not exceeding during the time period) that price range, more or less?

Maybe something like this?

Bearish:   $69,001 to $80k - 25%

Conservative: $80,001 to $150k - 35%

Middle: $150,001 to $500k - 30%

High: $500,001 to $1 million - 7.75%

Pie in the sky:  $1,000,001 to $2.5 million- 2%

SuperCharged Pie in the sky:  greater than $2.5 million- less than 0.5%

When I have discussions with friends who have different investment mindsets, I simply ask them if they have money set aside for savings and they do not intend using anytime soon and does not affect their living activities. when they respond in affirmation, I introduce accumulating bitcoin another way to help them save their spare money for a longer period of time instead of just hoarding it in the banks and we are good. I don't convince them to stop their own investments, I only let them see bitcoin as a way of preserving their funds from devaluation, investing spare funds and in turn getting good profits in the long run.

That is fair enough.  There are some folks who might already be investing and/or saving, and for them, bitcoin can supplement what they are already doing to potentially complement what they are already doing, yet like you suggested, they need to have some level of discretionary income first, and I would suggest that they need a 4-10 year or longer timeline to invest into bitcoin if they want to come into bitcoin as an investment rather than merely attempting to trade it.

I think the problem is that, a lot people who go into Bitcoin investment often have a misguided mentality about Bitcoin investment, they often believe that Bitcoin investment is often one magical way to get rich overnight or some kind of a liquid asset that they can easily just buy at a low price, wait for a little while and then Boom, there's a sudden increase in the market price and then they sell off, making themselves some good profit. But in reality, it's quite the opposite.

People can jump into bitcoin and then sell it and achieve dollar profits.

In reality, Bitcoin is actually a very volatile and high risk investment, However also a high reward investment too but to enjoy this promised reward, the investor must be willing to exercise a great deal of patience, discipline and must also be willing to ride out short term market fluctuations by considering the asset's long term trajectory.

I agree with you that it is better to play bitcoin for the long term, but that still does not mean that people cannot make dollar profits from their bitcoin investment trade in the short-term.  They just might not do as well to trade bitcoin as compared with long term investing, especially if we might look at a couple cycles down the road..

The volatility of Bitcoin can indeed be frustrating for those who do not really understand the dynamics of the asset,

Volatility can be frustrating for long term HODLers too.  We see quite a bit of it on this forum and sometimes they are shaken out of their position (part or all) and other times they HODL through it while complaining the whole time.

but for those who understand the underlying value proposition as well as its potential for long-term benefits, they'll surely reap its benefits.

That is likely to be true.  It has been true historically, and it has good chances to continue to be true, even though profits are not guaranteed.

One major misconception people (especially newbies) often have about Bitcoin is viewing it as a suitable asset for short term trading. So this pushes them to attempt to profit from the Bitcoin's daily price movement, but due to the fact that it's impossible to accurately predict the price of Bitcoin in the short-term, this approach mostly ends in financial disaster and disappointment. In contrast, those who consider Bitcoin to be a great way to store wealth and HODL through unfavorable market conditions, often reap the benefits in the long-term.

I agree that the mindset of the trader is going to also be screwed up if he is fucking around with trading rather than just ongoingly buying and holding and maybe just figuring out how many BTC that he is going to need before he might start to price based or time based or needs based start to sell some off in a kind of sustainable way.

Hopefully we are not getting into bitcoin to just get a lambo or some kind of a short-term frill, even though there are some folks who think about (and practice) their bitcoin investment in that kind of a short-term profits way.

Another Misconception, I believe people often have about Bitcoin is the possibility that Bitcoin would replace the traditional fiat system, or a way to quickly fix the economy's financial downturns, meanwhile in reality, Bitcoin is more of a complimentary asset that has the ability to diversify portfolios and a great way to provide a shield to investors against inflation, possible downturns in the market and currency devaluation, and the sooner we correct these misconceptions, the more we have a better view of Bitcoin and its potentials.

Even if bitcoin is not necessarily going to replace the traditional fiat system in the short term, bitcoin is still ongoingly experiencing the gravitation of value into it since bitcoin is the superior asset and the superior money... so sure it could take 50-100 years or longer for bitcoin to become dominant, yet the ongoing gravitation of value into bitcoin is still happening and that is part of the strength of bitcoin's investment thesis.  I do agree that there is likely value to attempt to keep some fee in both areas, yet there are some people who are completely building in bitcoin and/or figuring out ways to minimize their ongong support of traditional investments. Jeff Booth talks about these kinds of matters a lot, which makes quite a bit of sense.

[sotelorene]

Even if someone tells me today that bitcoin will get to $2m before the end of next year, I will believe it.

Even though we don't doubt that bitcoin will increase in due time, we should also be more realistic to know that bitcoin can not just grow to $2m dollar In the space of 1 year. That would be a massive push of %millions. even as though it was just a speculation but it may not possible anytime soon.

Over exaggeration has been a reason why investors are getting in balance (less or no profits) while investing, they invest too much of what they have in anticipation of making massive profits due to some rumored or questionable speculations that is likely not to happen and this tends to put them at risk.

Any investor who is over investing more than his means is not a wise investor, because everyone who invests in bitcoin, be it for the short term or long term understand that before investing in bitcoin, there are certain things that's to be observed and one of it is, not investing more than certain percentage of your disposable income. So if there are any investors out there that's over investing more than he is supposed to invest,because of speculations made by people as him is not a wise investor, but an opportunist who is greedy and deserves whatever he gets at the end of the day. Even if such person gets into trouble I don't care.

 Because an investor should be wise enough to understand that speculations are just there to make people see the level at which other market players thinks bitcoin could be at that time frame. Those the people speculating never gave any guarantee that it would happen. So why would you go and over invest because of that, and blame it on others. If you are part of these sets of investors doing that, you have to refrain from such practice.

Perfectly said, this over investing is same or almost same thing as aggressive investment and just like you said, it has been advised not to invest aggressively because a situation where an investor has used up his or her reserve and emergency funds because of the quest to have more figure of Bitcoin in their holding can result to taking profit premature if at all there will be profit and any investor who does this automatically means he or she lacks management skill. Management skill is the ability of an investor not be drive or moved by the market Dip and mismanagement of investment in this context is a  function of greed ( wanting to hold more than you are not suppose to...), though it's not bad to take advantage when there's Dip but it should be within your control and capacity.

[Pi-network314159]

I still have troubles suggesting to a business man to stop leveraging his skills and/or talents in building a business and invest into bitcoin.   Perhaps that the best we can attempt to do is to try to get those folks to hedge their bets a bit and to put some of their cashflow into bitcoin.

neither do I advise any body not to leverage on his skill and talent. I resonate with the school of thought that encourages people to work an get paid either by self employed or by salary work and invest on bitcoin. we all are saying thesame thing just that I wanted to trow more light in regards to the important of bitcoin and how small investment can increase a man coast in due time. we all know that bitcoin doesn't perform magic if not invested on. for that reason we can not neglect the fact that bitcoin can't  work on its own but depend on a force to act. just like a car that can't run without a petrol. the money generated from the difference kind of business will be used to fuel bitcoin just like a car, and the amount of petrol on it determines the distance the car can go.

[Justbillywitt]

-snip-

Bitcoin is a speculative asset, yeah there is nothing wrong with people speculations and predictions even though there is no guarantee or certainty as to that regards. However, how about you explain what you meant by proper research when it comes to Bitcoin, it is Bitcoin we are talking about here, it can be so retarding talking about making proper research when it comes to Bitcoin investing because there no better research other than being in the market while figuring out other things along the line, Bitcoin has incredibly performed beyond every reasonable doubt to be subjected towards making a proper research without getting fucking started.

What needs to be researched, trading volume or the best time to invest?
I think many of us already know that bitcoin is a well-performing investment asset so far and many people have invested millions of dollars in it over the years. What are we waiting for, the prices change all the time and it will be like that forever. If you want to get returns from bitcoin, then buy what you can and also in whatever amount you can afford to lose. Bitcoin is good as a long-term investment asset, even for your old age, so invest and develop your investment strategy over time.

I think people should start seeing the phrase that one should invest what one can be able to lose as old fashioned which doesn't portray bitcoin. Instead of that we should try to acquaint ourselves with this, one should invest money that you ain't gonna need for a long time, like 4 years and above. I find it difficult to still believe that any money invested in bitcoin can be lost totally, provided that the investor doesn't sell of his position when there is decline in the market. Let's see bitcoin as one of the greatest invention that has ever been known to humanity, and it has come to stay. Can you imagine the world now without automobile? The answer is no. But when automobile was invented people talked down at it, instead they were comparing it with horses, and many people believed that it will fade away someday.

But from that time till now it hasn't, instead it has become one of human most needed asset. So people who are still thinking that one should invest what one can be able to lose in bitcoin, because they are still not sure if bitcoin has come to stay or not are getting it wrong and they are missing  the chance of buying enough bitcoin at this cheap price with money they ain't gonna need for long time, because they don't want to invest more than they can afford to lose. Bitcoin will only go away if the internet goes away and imagine that kind of world without the internet.