Should speculation about satoshi's identity be subject to doxxing rules?

[OgNasty]

How about we first fix double standards and make permanent ban for members who made multiple threats to other members, and even reported other members to government officials with fake claims 

Indeed.  I also had my information posted here with links to local law enforcement as well as homeland security and the IRS urging members here to report me for made up crimes.  The user who did it didn't even get suspended for doing so.  That's pretty crazy.  Especially when I got suspended for alluding to punching another member in the face for spreading lies about me.  How ridiculous is that?  People here can do everything in their power to spread lies about you, dox you, get your arrested, ruin your reputation, try to have others report you for fake crimes to law enforcement and if you even allege that you would punch someone for spreading these lies about you, you get suspended...  In other words, you can illegally commit libel all day here, but if you exercise legal free speech against the protected class you get suspended.  Ridiculous.  

[dkbit98]

Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with speculating on the potential identity of Satoshi, and that's something that will forever be discussed, but if someone was like this is Satoshi, here's his social security number and home address then I'm sure that would fall foul of the rules, but I don't think merely speculating on his identity should be classified as doxing. If Satoshi's identity was ever discovered then it would not be limited to this forum anyway and would quickly become widespread online.

This is called Faketoshi and we have many examples of people claiming to be Satoshi, starting with biggest scammer of all Craigh Wright, but there are others like Bilal Khalid, etc.
Actually I think that most of the people would not believe any new information, and they would ask to see really hard evidence, even if someone would came up with full documentation claiming to be coming from real Satoshi.

PS
For anyone wondering who the heck is Bilal Khalid:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5197670.0

[BlackHatCoiner]

I would be the perfect example.

Sorry, I'm not following the Vod - OgNasty forum drama. I had once tried to read it, but I was just lost after a couple of minutes. So, yeah. Any other examples?

You can't dox someone when you don't know his real identity, and everyone has the right to examine history and potential candidates for Satoshi.

Yes, but the process of identifying someone is the prerequisite for doxxing them. You obviously can't dox someone if you don't know who they are, but the process of de-anonymizing someone online in public is enough to inevitably have the same consequences of doxxing them.

How would you feel if I, a data mining analyst, created a new topic, posting my research around the pseudonym "dkbit98", presenting horrifyingly accurate analysis which involved running metrics like textual analysis, essentially matching you with a single digit number of suspects (you included) with minimum uncertainty? Wouldn't you start feeling like you're having your privacy invaded? Sure, it is not solid evidence, and you can refuse it in real life all you like, but it is clearly a dox attempt.

[DooMAD]

everyone has the right to examine history and potential candidates for Satoshi.

Yes, everyone has the right to be reckless, selfish and inconsiderate.  Doesn't mean they should, though.  People only seem to care about themselves and don't stop to consider the harm they might bring upon others.

they were curious who Satoshi is. but there is nothing to dox about him or her.

In other words, there's no victim yet, so it's okay to keep trying until there is a victim.  Great argument.   

The thing about crossing that line is that you won't know you've done it until it's too late.

[dkbit98]

How would you feel if I, a data mining analyst, created a new topic, posting my research around the pseudonym "dkbit98", presenting horrifyingly accurate analysis which involved running metrics like textual analysis, essentially matching you with a single digit number of suspects (you included) with minimum uncertainty? Wouldn't you start feeling like you're having your privacy invaded?

Honestly. I wouldn't care at all about that, and I can't prevent other people to do whatever they want to do.

Yes, everyone has the right to be reckless, selfish and inconsiderate.  Doesn't mean they should, though.  People only seem to care about themselves and don't stop to consider the harm they might bring upon others.

I will repeat again, this has nothing to do with doxxing, unles you want to have your own definition and special rules for that.
And even for doxxing there is exception in forum, so you can post personal information for others in Investigations board.

Doxing or doxxing is the act of publicly providing personally identifiable information about an individual or organization, usually via the Internet and without their consent.

https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Doxing

[OgNasty]

I would be the perfect example.

Sorry, I'm not following the Vod - OgNasty forum drama. I had once tried to read it, but I was just lost after a couple of minutes. So, yeah. Any other examples?

I'll paraphrase.  I was doxxed by a user.  Merit sources merited that user's post doxxing me.  Now I'm being extorted by that user and default trust members are including him in their trust networks.

Is that simple enough for you to follow?

Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think merit sources and default trust members should be meriting doxxing posts and including extortionists in their trust networks.  I get that's a hot take though.  I can see why you'd want another example.  That's super hard to follow. 

What you mean to ask is can I provide an example that doesn't implicate the largest merit sources and most included default trust members in very clear wrongdoing.

[DooMAD]

I will repeat again, this has nothing to do with doxxing, unles you want to have your own definition and special rules for that.
And even for doxxing there is exception in forum, so you can post personal information for others in Investigations board.

Doxing or doxxing is the act of publicly providing personally identifiable information about an individual or organization, usually via the Internet and without their consent.

https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Doxing

Real-world names are very much personally identifiable.  How is this so difficult for people to comprehend?

When the media mistakenly claimed that Dorian Nakamoto was Satoshi, that had a serious negative impact on his life.  They published his name without his consent.  And then the rest of the media hounded and harassed him for weeks.  If someone has not given you consent to connect their real name to the Satoshi pseudonym, you are potentially causing them harm by claiming that they are Satoshi.  This is immoral.

You're trying to claim that because Dorian isn't Satoshi, he wasn't doxxed.  But he clearly still suffered all the consequences of being doxxed, because people were led to believe that he was someone he wasn't.

I would argue that mistaken and inaccurate doxxing is still doxxing.  It causes exactly the same problems for the person wrongly accused.  If you are linking a real name with a username and do not have permission to do so, I maintain the stance that you are in the wrong.  These aren't my special definitions, it's the definition you just used.

Can I make that any clearer for you?


//EDIT:  And the Investigations board is only for scam accusations.  If you are not claiming satoshi has scammed you, you should not be trying to breach their privacy (or the privacy of whoever you might be speculating is Satoshi) by assigning a real-world, personally-identifiable name to that pseudonym.

[dkbit98]

Real-world names are very much personally identifiable.  How is this so difficult for people to comprehend?

So you know the real Satoshi name?  

When the media mistakenly claimed that Dorian Nakamoto was Satoshi, that had a serious negative impact on his life.

Than you can blame Satoshi for that, because according to you he ''doxxed'' Doran Nakamoto, that is his actual legal name - Dorian Prentice Satoshi Nakamoto.  
Maybe you also want to accuse Satosh for stealing his name.  

Can I make that any clearer for you?

You are the one who is confused here, not me.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I mean, I'm not absolute on that particular topic as Satoshi is seen as sort of a mythical being now more, but it frustrates me when people miss the point. Just because we don't know with certainty the person behind Satoshi, doesn't mean that we can start pointing into anyone, writing their real names in Internet boards, expecting to face no penalties.

Than you can blame Satoshi for that, because according to you he ''doxxed'' Doran Nakamoto, that is his actual legal name - Dorian Prentice Satoshi Nakamoto.

No, he didn't, unless there's a post from him that points to Dorian Nakamoto. It is curious speculators (who attempted to) dox Dorian.

[joker_josue]

I mean, I'm not absolute on that particular topic as Satoshi is seen as sort of a mythical being now more, but it frustrates me when people miss the point. Just because we don't know with certainty the person behind Satoshi, doesn't mean that we can start pointing into anyone, writing their real names in Internet boards, expecting to face no penalties.

Well, if I say that I think Satoshi is the mathematician XPTO (a person already famous or well-known in the world), I'm not doxxing.

We must understand that doxxing involves disclosing personal private information, such as a person's address, phone number, financial information, or other real data. Speculating about someone's true identity is not doxxing as long as it does not involve disclosing private personal information.

So I think things are getting mixed up. One thing is doxxing, the main objective of which is to harm and humiliate someone. Another is to speculate about someone's identity.

But as I said before, I understand the point raised by the OP. Although I don't think what's happening to Satoshi is doxxing, speculation about identities should be handled with care to avoid defamation or violation of privacy.

[Synchronice]

You're merely attempting to justify that your curiosity is somehow more important than someone else's safety.  Don't you care that you could be endangering someone?  Seems a little selfish to me.

Why should it be dangerous to know who Satoshi is? Since when do we hide that information? Is Vitalik Buterin in danger since we know that he created ETH? Is SEC chairman in danger since we know he is the chariman? Is JP Morgan CEO in danger? Is Elon Musk in danger because we know that he owns Tesla?

Did Satoshi ever say that we should remove every post on this forum to protect his privacy? And if he thought that he would be in danger, then he shouldn't have created a Bitcoin. Absolutely everyone wants to know who is Satoshi and that's a fair question. The wrong question and danger is if someone figures out his address and posts it in public.
Satoshi didn't create anything wrong or illegal, so why should he be in danger even if his full name and photo becomes available? By the way, no one can obtain that, he is probably dead, only god knows.

There is no legal documentation or requirement when you purchase bitcoins, neither is there an obligation to use Bitcoin. So, why would there be a legal right to know who the author is?

Is it prohibited to ask and try to find who Satoshi is?

Millions of people use Bitcoin, isn't it their right to know who created the coin that they use?

No. Someone created something great. Using it doesn't give you any special rights.

Okay but I strongly believe anyone has a right to ask the question Who is Satoshi? and search for answers or open a discussion thread on this forum.

[LoyceMobile]

Okay but I strongly believe anyone has a right to ask the question Who is Satoshi? and search for answers or open a discussion thread on this forum.

Having the right to ask is not the same as having the right to get an answer.

[Upgrade00]

Well, if I say that I think Satoshi is the mathematician XPTO (a person already famous or well-known in the world), I'm not doxxing.

We must understand that doxxing involves disclosing personal private information, such as a person's address, phone number, financial information, or other real data. Speculating about someone's true identity is not doxxing as long as it does not involve disclosing private personal information.

There are varying definitions of doxxing. Some define it as linking real life information to an anonymous online personality. As an example;
• the address of Mr. Thomas is 124 wallet street, this is a public information on their community register.
• hooded hacker is a online personality who doesn't post any personal information online,
• a link is made between Me. Thomas and hooded hacker and everyone now knows where "hooded hacker" lives, even those who do not like his anonymous work.

Is it prohibited to ask and try to find who Satoshi is?

No, it's not.
What is prohibited or should be, is trying to unearth personal information about satoshi which they did not make public.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Why should it be dangerous to know who Satoshi is?

First and foremost? Because he's probably a secret billionaire.

Is Vitalik Buterin in danger since we know that he created ETH?

Yes. A lot.  I think I've only seen him once being in a non-conference room, and that was with bodyguards surrounded.

Is SEC chairman in danger since we know he is the chariman? Is JP Morgan CEO in danger? Is Elon Musk in danger because we know that he owns Tesla?

Yes... They are all rich and public figures? However, I don't see how is that relevant with the question. Satoshi (or the person behind that name) is not a public figure.

Satoshi didn't create anything wrong or illegal, so why should he be in danger even if his full name and photo becomes available? By the way, no one can obtain that, he is probably dead, only god knows.

Has it crossed your mind that Satoshi might be alive and sitting on top of a billion worth of bitcoin?

[DooMAD]

Why should it be dangerous to know who Satoshi is?

Maybe you're lucky enough to live in a democracy (or, at the very least, a nation trying to masquerade as one).  But there are some places on Earth where human rights are at a premium.  Some authoritarian nations go ballistic if you do anything that might impact their economy.  If the government don't like what you're doing they'll 'disappear' you or straight up have you executed.

Take, for example, one of our own forum members who wanted to live off-grid in a 'seastead' and live off their Bitcoin.  They built their new home off the coast of Thailand.  The Thai government then declared them a threat to national security, called for the death penalty and had the military come along to destroy their home.  And that's just for someone wanting to use Bitcoin near Thailand  (thankfully they're okay last I heard).

So, could you imagine what the consequences might be if Satoshi turned out to be living in Thailand?  What kind of threat do you suppose the Thai government might perceive them as?  Maybe they keep their identity secret because their life quite literally depends on it.

I don't think anyone considers any of this when they're having fun poking their noses in the private affairs of others. 

I'm sorry to be blunt, but if you're still publicly speculating about who satoshi is you're being inconsiderate jackasses here.  It's that simple.

[cryptosize]

Even if Satoshi is still alive (highly unlikely), there's no chance he's going to send his enormous BTC stash to a CEX or even BlackRock. Chances are they're going to confiscate his coins if he tries to crash the market (try putting a spot sell order of 1100000 BTC and see what happens next ).

So yeah, he's a billionaire, but more like a "theoretical" billionaire. I'm pretty sure he'll become the first trillionaire as well (next to Elon Musk perhaps), but still, he'll be a theoretical one.

[Poker Player]

I'm sorry to be blunt, but if you're still publicly speculating about who satoshi is you're being inconsiderate jackasses here.  It's that simple.

And how is it that you got that great idea just now to the point of insulting those who don't think like you, after being on the forum for 10 and a half years? Come on, enlighten us.

The owner clearly does not think like you, otherwise he would have taken steps to do so a long time ago. Nor does anyone else who has discussed Satoshi's possible identity in the many threads about it.

You expect to go down in history as the protector of Satoshi's privacy or something? 14 years after he has disappeared and none of the speculation about him has turned up anything that could identify him?

I think humanity needs more people with cool ideas like yours, otherwise I don't think we'll survive another year.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

I will completely (without any form of objection or whatsoever) agree with the op, for over years, some users on this forum have actually taken it upon themselves to unravel the true identity of who Satoshi Nakamoto is, and since this is a very hot topic in the entire crypto currency ecosystem, it often feels like there is some kind of heavy bounty placed on Satoshi, and that bounty goes to who ever is able to unravel his true identity, and even if the outside crypto currency or bitcoin community are zealously trying to dox Satoshi, this forum is different, and I agree that users of this forum should not engage themselves in doing such, for it is indeed an act of disrespect, and disregard for or on Satoshi's privacy, for forum users to want to dox him, when we ourselves who are here and using the forum today, don't want any other forum user to know who we are, or our true identity.

It's like a saying in my place, which states that, before you punch another in the face, first punch yourself and feel how painful it Is first - if Satoshi is still amongst us, I can feel how disappointed he or they must be, seeing how hard some users of this forum are trying to dox him or them, this is something we honestly have to stop and I hope theymos and the forum mods read this thread and agree as well.

[joker_josue]

I'm sorry to be blunt, but if you're still publicly speculating about who satoshi is you're being inconsiderate jackasses here.  It's that simple.

Well, I think you're exaggerating a lot, and feeling excessive pain.

Everything that has been done so far makes it impossible to know who or where Satoshi is from. And you will probably never know that. Know why? Because the only way you can maintain your anonymity is from the first day to do everything you can to make it that way. And that Satoshi did very well, it was all planned from day 1. They will discover the identity of ME or YOU faster than we will find out which country Satoshi lived in.

I'm not saying that it's good or bad to research to find out who Satoshi was. But, all the information that exists is available to everyone inside and outside the forum. And therefore, talking about her within the forum should not be something prohibited or something to be regretted.

It's like a saying in my place, which states that, before you punch another in the face, first punch yourself and feel how painful it Is first - if Satoshi is still amongst us, I can feel how disappointed he or they must be, seeing how hard some users of this forum are trying to dox him or them, this is something we honestly have to stop and I hope theymos and the forum mods read this thread and agree as well.

Don't mix things up. Speculating who Satoshi is is not doxxing. Starting from this idea is wrong.

[EarnOnVictor]

I must have missed this thread due to my busy schedule these days. Though the OP is entitled to his opinion, nonetheless, the opinion looks too serious compared to the actual fact. The doxxing of a thing may be enforced against users on this forum but I can assure you that it can't be more than here, what's the point? As we speak, do you know how many investigative journalists are on this trail? You can't know until their success. Your point is however conceived because this is a Bitcoin forum, but if enforced strictly, then it means that neutrality is still not strong here in my opinion. Even in law, in most countries, doxxing is forgivable, and in many other places, it "may" be lightly punished depending on the reason for it, not to mention an online forum.

Fine, based on how this forum was created, we might collectively respect the privacy of the person who created Bitcoin and also opened this forum, it makes sense like that. But when we are now taking it too seriously, I do not see it so neutral to prove the freedom of expression.

I really would love it if Satoshi Nakamoto could reveal his/their identity to reap the fruits of his/their labour. The project is too honourable for the brain(s) behind it not to be known. I believe what people are doing is out of curiosity, but what I don't condone is too many threads pointing to the same fact here, that must stop. But for people to try and relate something to it, I do not have so much concern about that.

Let them continue to try, it will only be the case of "catch me if you can."