[Discussion] Bitcoin Pizza Day on Bitcointalk 🍕

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

Given the slim chances of randomness, I will exclude votes from those who look like copy/paste.

I'm sorry to say this, because I actually didn't contest and I have no interest in this, but inasmuch as such rule wasn't stated that users who vote for a particular sets of participants will lead to disqualification of votes, then I think it will be biased to now disqualify a certain group of eligible voters. Because I'm pretty sure nobody forced these users to vote for the people they did, either it looking like a copy & paste or not. Hence, for the fact that was their decision, I will suggest we respect the votes of all eligible user, while further changes can be discussed after winners have been announced.

Let’s discuss all those ideas after the closing of the contest, babo.
Rules for this editions were clear.
There is space for improvements? Sure, as in every aspect of life, but I think for respect of everyone, contestants, organiser and sponsors of this competition included, it is better to discuss change of rules after winners are announced!
Just my two cents.

You actually spoke well at Sir fillippone, because the rules for this year's Pizza contest were cleared to the understanding of everybody. So disqualifying some users will seems unfair, when it wasn't stated among the rules. Because the truth of the fact is that, the contest has already been organized, the eligible forum users have casted their votes, so what's left is for the winners to be announced. And if their is a need for change of rules, then that one can be discussed against next year's Bitcoin Pizza contest.

That's my sincere opinion

[Ale88]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

The probability is high and I will explain how it can happen. The first vote can come from a particular member of a local board who have earned the respect and trust of other local board members, others coming to vote, sees his/her choice and decide to vote in same direction.

If you check the numbers (just use some AI) you can notice that there are 40+ users who voted exactly for the same 4 or 5 pizzas, all from the same local board, both the pizzas and the users. I totally understand that many of us like to support users that "we know" but 40+ votes all the same (maybe different order but same numbers) just because someone voted that way in the first place it's a little hard to believe. Of course I could be wrong.

[Bluedrem]

I saw some votes in the voting thread where it seems like one person is imitating another. It's a bit like the government election votes in our country. They first see who can actually win the election and then go to the polling station and vote for that person so that their vote is not wasted.
It seems like the voting was done in the same way here too. They decided which one got more votes by looking at the previous votes and later they voted for that one. Because out of 144 pizzas, only a few pizzas got votes.

I'm not guaranteeing that this is the case, my guess could be wrong, but that's what I thought.

In such imitativeness, as babo said, along with the vote, he can take a one-line comment where it is mentioned why he is voting for the pizza. And while voting, it should be done in such a way that a person can give a maximum of 5 votes and he can also give one, two, three or four because he may not like five pizzas.

[fillippone]

Let’s discuss all those ideas after the closing of the contest, babo.
Rules for this editions were clear.
There is space for improvements? Sure, as in every aspect of life, but I think for respect of everyone, contestants, organiser and sponsors of this competition included, it is better to discuss change of rules after winners are announced!
Just my two cents.

You actually spoke well at Sir fillippone, because the rules for this year's Pizza contest were cleared to the understanding of everybody. So disqualifying some users will seems unfair, when it wasn't stated among the rules. Because the truth of the fact is that, the contest has already been organized, the eligible forum users have casted their votes, so what's left is for the winners to be announced. And if their is a need for change of rules, then that one can be discussed against next year's Bitcoin Pizza contest.

That's my sincere opinion

I didn't say that.

I did say that we need to discuss rules for the next year's contests.

Regarding the disqualifying of user there was also a rule:

The OP has the discretion to ignore any votes (including abusers, recently awakened account votes, and inactive posters ... but not limited to this).]

I trust icopress to take the best decisions. Even if he will allow the pizza-non pizza to be awarded.

Then, we will discuss next year's rules.

[Becassine]

I love the detective stories on this forum  

However, there may be something missing (I haven't read everything, to be honest): if 40 participants from the same local section voted the same pizzas, you just have to add up all the prices and divide them by 40. In some countries, perhaps the price, even divided by 40, is not negligible compared to the standard of living of the local section in question?

[shahzadafzal]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

I'm not surprised, and honestly, it's not that strange. 🙂 ... After all look at the prize money bro $2500

If you look closely, you will probably notice that those users are from the same specific community. Based on my own experience on our local board  , they often coordinate and vote together.... not for the best pizza, but rather in support of their own people. "Favoritism" tends to take over, and they prioritize local members over objective choices.

Technically, this behavior isn't against the rules, but it does undermine the spirit and excitement of the pizza contest.

Should these votes be excluded from this contest? I don't think so... unless there are clear indications of something fishy, like account farming or duplicate users. 😄

 

[Becassine]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

I'm not surprised, and honestly, it's not that strange. 🙂 ... After all look at the prize money bro $2500

If you look closely, you will probably notice that those users are from the same specific community. Based on my own experience on our local board  , they often coordinate and vote together.... not for the best pizza, but rather in support of their own people. "Favoritism" tends to take over, and they prioritize local members over objective choices.

Technically, this behavior isn't against the rules, but it does undermine the spirit and excitement of the pizza contest.

Should these votes be excluded from this contest? I don't think so... unless there are clear indications of something fishy, like account farming or duplicate users. 😄

If this is true, the competition will unfortunately no longer be of any interest.

[fillippone]

I love the detective stories on this forum  

You would be amased by thew amount of data or analysis you can extract putting into an AI a simple .csv file with usernames and votes.
Wonders happen when you add a few metadata.

You can have a visual representation of almost all the patterns, voting evolution, and many other stuff.

As Mark Twain (and DdmrDdmr) once said:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"

Source

So, I did for my own private enjoyment, and I won't share any of those analysis, as it would be I think unfair, but I think are trivial enough to be easily reproduced by anyone.

[JayJuanGee]

If we're recommending stuff, please just make the rule that you can't vote for your own entry (pizza, pumpkin, whatever) official going forward.

My blood boils a bit after every 'can I vote for myself' question. No, you can't, not sure what sort of a contestant even asks something like this.

Let the blood boil.   That seems to be on you.
'
We can agree to disagree.

i don't see anything wrong with a participant voting for his own pizza, if he were to have a pizza in the contest, if he were eligible to vote, and if he were to choose to vote for his own pizza.

Coordinated voting is problematic, so I am not sure how to address it fairly.. though it may well be in the discretion of the contest coordinator to come to such judgement regarding the appearance of impropriety.... yet, it still becomes difficult to address such a thing in terms of if adaptations are attempted to be more subtle in such coordinated votes...   There does seem to be a bit of a dilemma regarding whether and/or how to address such a situation for this time around and/or for future contests.

It is pretty nice to be able to have these kinds of contests, yet at the same time, it would be shame to see them either go away or to cause derision due to perceptions of unfairness.

[LoyceV]

In some countries, perhaps the price, even divided by 40, is not negligible compared to the standard of living of the local section in question?

I don't live in a cheap country, but the prize money is still enough to order 40 (double) pizzas.

[Odohu]

In some countries, perhaps the price, even divided by 40, is not negligible compared to the standard of living of the local section in question?

I don't live in a cheap country, but the prize money is still enough to order 40 (double) pizzas.

Base on the statement of Becassine, it is the prize money divided by 40. From last contest, the first winner got about $1,000 which if divided by 40 will give $25. Are you saying this is enough to order 40(double) pizzas? In my country, this is rarely enough to order three large pizzas, maybe enough to order the "Papa John's pizzas" ordered by Laszlo Hanyecz, then with some bottles of soft drinks to push it down.

[LoyceV]

divided by 40 will give $25. Are you saying this is enough to order 40(double) pizzas? In my country, this is rarely enough to order three large pizzas

Lol. Of course $1000 won't buy 40 times 40 (double) pizzas. I think you're missing the point: it's a lot of money, this is the internet, people have cheated for much lower amounts, so being suspicious is warranted.

[Danydee]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

The probability is high and I will explain how it can happen. The first vote can come from a particular member of a local board who have earned the respect and trust of other local board members, others coming to vote, sees his/her choice and decide to vote in same direction. It happens even  in circular politics  in which case people simply vote for a candidate because a certain individual supports the candidate. I don't think this breaks any rule hence, taking any action because some people voted the same numbers and in the same order may not seem fair to the competition entirely. Like some people already suggested, these are areas of improvement that can be discussed after a winner have been announced based on the rules set for this year's contest.

Yes they are high, but to have the same order the probabilities expend to become very unlikely to happen!

Another hypothesis.. they are paid votes : The message they get in some private messaging looks like: vote for pizzas < #x #y #z #T #NT > to get the reward!  So there is copy-pasting

And if their is a need for change of rules, then that one can be discussed against next year's Bitcoin Pizza contest.

What about making the participation submissions private? It will not completely erase shitting, but it will become at a very lower level!

For the submission asking to upload a complete set of photos (with some safety rules), to have a clearer overview of ok the works! And make the submissions private! What do you think of?

[Odohu]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

The probability is high and I will explain how it can happen. The first vote can come from a particular member of a local board who have earned the respect and trust of other local board members, others coming to vote, sees his/her choice and decide to vote in same direction. It happens even  in circular politics  in which case people simply vote for a candidate because a certain individual supports the candidate. I don't think this breaks any rule hence, taking any action because some people voted the same numbers and in the same order may not seem fair to the competition entirely. Like some people already suggested, these are areas of improvement that can be discussed after a winner have been announced based on the rules set for this year's contest.

Yes they are high, but to have he same order the probabilities expend to become very unlikely to happen!

Another hypothesis.. they are paid votes : The message they get in some private messaging looks like: vote for pizzas < #x #y #z #T #NT > to get the reward!  So there is copy-pasting

This is incredibly funny even though I'm trying so hard not to laugh so I don't appear weird where I am now. Wait you mean someone can decide to pay people to vote for a contest open for the entire globe and in which winning is not even guaranteed? Such investment decision is worse than these terrible historic investment decisions. I keep wondering where some of these hypothesis are coming from and why so much hypothesis for just a pizza contest. There is no perfect system of voting in the world and no matter how hard we try in this, there will always be room for improvement. Nevertheless, there will always be dissatisfied people no matter how fair a voting system is... those who feel they deserve to win but are unable to will always conjure something to discredit the voting system.

Let us just allow Icopress to take his decisions since he is the only one with the power to shift the goal post.

The OP has the discretion to ignore any votes (including abusers, recently awakened account votes, and inactive posters ... but not limited to this).]

[cryptofrka]

If we're recommending stuff, please just make the rule that you can't vote for your own entry (pizza, pumpkin, whatever) official going forward.

My blood boils a bit after every 'can I vote for myself' question. No, you can't, not sure what sort of a contestant even asks something like this.

Let the blood boil.   That seems to be on you.
'
We can agree to disagree.

i don't see anything wrong with a participant voting for his own pizza, if he were to have a pizza in the contest, if he were eligible to vote, and if he were to choose to vote for his own pizza.

Yeah, you can say that - but we as a community should look to eradicate any kind of 'dicky' behavior and not support it.
I hate to see great ideas being ruined by shitty behavior - it is detrimental to any fun contests that can be done for the benefit of us all in the future.

Make your pizza, let people vote, if it's great you should get the reward. If people group up to vote, punish them because they don't work towards improving the contest but towards personal gain.

If a person votes for himself, well, he's a dick that thinks only about his own benefit - it's as clear as that.
Allowing people to vote for their own pizzas basically means that you reward dicks with 1 extra vote, and if fair players want to reach even ground they need to become dicks as well. Not great, don't you agree?

[Danydee]

This is incredibly funny even though I'm trying so hard not to laugh so I don't appear weird where I am now. Wait you mean someone can decide to pay people to vote for a contest open for the entire globe and in which winning is not even guaranteed? Such investment decision is worse than these terrible historic investment decisions. I keep wondering where some of these hypothesis are coming from and why so much hypothesis for just a pizza contest. There is no perfect system of voting in the world and no matter how hard we try in this, there will always be room for improvement. Nevertheless, there will always be dissatisfied people no matter how fair a voting system is... those who feel they deserve to win but are unable to will always conjure something to discredit the voting system.

Hey, even if I didn't put enough salt, my pizza was very very good. And I consumed it entirely the 6 following (working) hours!


And this was just an hipothesis,

So 1st: The submission was for 5 pizzas, not only one.. so financial impact is cushioned...

I dind't say that that was a mere "listing" to make paid votes, all the voters and contestants (if Im not wrong) are from the same Local board.. So the real question is, What would make you (for a sympathy vote) make literally a completely copy paste of an whole exact shape, whom that btw cover all your vote allocations?!

So maybe there could be or not some dealings between them before ... but, yes.. regarding the number of the form users, alting etc., there could surrely be there users that would do it even for very small reward!


This is stay an hypothesis, as it could be there an easier explenation:

All the users are part of the same acquaintances circle.. There is an user who manage the first to make the pizzas identification.. He send, or quote his own vote to the other users, so the other by just copy pasting !  


PS: At this time, I have zero knowledge of whom the protagonists of this story are and neither which local board it is!

[LoyceV]

Wait you mean someone can decide to pay people to vote for a contest open for the entire globe and in which winning is not even guaranteed?

Yes. It isn't even that far-fetched. I wouldn't say voting is open for everyone: only 3709 users have earned enough Merit to be eligible to vote.

[satscraper]

If this is true, the competition will unfortunately no longer be of any interest.

Agreed. The current format of this competition feels disconnected from the spirit of the original event.

One could reshape it similar to this:

1)Order pizza and pay with BTC anytime during the year*.

2)Share proof of your purchases during "Bitcoin Pizza Day on Bitcointalk" by placing relevant receipts and photos.

3)Users who’ve bought the most pizzas with BTC^{and eaten them} become the winners.

*) Subject to discuss.

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

Let’s discuss all those ideas after the closing of the contest, babo.
Rules for this editions were clear.
There is space for improvements? Sure, as in every aspect of life, but I think for respect of everyone, contestants, organiser and sponsors of this competition included, it is better to discuss change of rules after winners are announced!
Just my two cents.

You actually spoke well at Sir fillippone, because the rules for this year's Pizza contest were cleared to the understanding of everybody. So disqualifying some users will seems unfair, when it wasn't stated among the rules. Because the truth of the fact is that, the contest has already been organized, the eligible forum users have casted their votes, so what's left is for the winners to be announced. And if their is a need for change of rules, then that one can be discussed against next year's Bitcoin Pizza contest.

That's my sincere opinion

Regarding the disqualifying of user there was also a rule:

The OP has the discretion to ignore any votes (including abusers, recently awakened account votes, and inactive posters ... but not limited to this).]

I trust icopress to take the best decisions. Even if he will allow the pizza-non pizza to be awarded.

Then, we will discuss next year's rules.

If that's what you meant, then it's actually fine. Maybe I misunderstood you, and I trust Icopress to do a great job too on the selection process of the winners, because moreover, he holds the knife to bisect and dissect the final decision on this.

Another hypothesis.. they are paid votes : The message they get in some private messaging looks like: vote for pizzas < #x #y #z #T #NT > to get the reward!  So there is copy-pasting

Judging from a statistical point of view of the total number of active users been said to be over 745,000 (i.e according to bpip.org), then I actually think it will be insane for any participants of this noble Pizza contest to have thought of paying for a vote, when he/she bearly knew the probability of winning in a forum of over 745,000 active users. Hence, I think the only logical reason that might have resulted to the similar voting pattern as claimed above is exactly what Odohu stated above, regarding people voting simply because they saw a certain user they respect on the forum voting too. While secondly, maybe they saw those pizza to be worth voting for and decided to vote to. Which is literally not against the rules of the contest.

[Uhwuchukwu53]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

The probability is high and I will explain how it can happen. The first vote can come from a particular member of a local board who have earned the respect and trust of other local board members, others coming to vote, sees his/her choice and decide to vote in same direction. It happens even  in circular politics  in which case people simply vote for a candidate because a certain individual supports the candidate. I don't think this breaks any rule hence, taking any action because some people voted the same numbers and in the same order may not seem fair to the competition entirely. Like some people already suggested, these are areas of improvement that can be discussed after a winner have been announced based on the rules set for this year's contest.

Yes they are high, but to have he same order the probabilities expend to become very unlikely to happen!

Another hypothesis.. they are paid votes : The message they get in some private messaging looks like: vote for pizzas < #x #y #z #T #NT > to get the reward!  So there is copy-pasting

This is incredibly funny even though I'm trying so hard not to laugh so I don't appear weird where I am now. Wait you mean someone can decide to pay people to vote for a contest open for the entire globe and in which winning is not even guaranteed? Such investment decision is worse than these terrible historic investment decisions. I keep wondering where some of these hypothesis are coming from and why so much hypothesis for just a pizza contest. There is no perfect system of voting in the world and no matter how hard we try in this, there will always be room for improvement. Nevertheless, there will always be dissatisfied people no matter how fair a voting system is... those who feel they deserve to win but are unable to will always conjure something to discredit the voting system.

Let us just allow Icopress to take his decisions since he is the only one with the power to shift the goal post.

The OP has the discretion to ignore any votes (including abusers, recently awakened account votes, and inactive posters ... but not limited to this).]

Odohu is very correct this scenario is not far from what happened in the past election conducted in our Nation where those electorate who always manipulate the system of elections never knew that the youth will fall out to change the system without their vote buying in supporting a candidate that has nothing and him scale through and the cartels gang up to discret the election as a result of surprise coming from the election by tagging it all sort of names, looking at how this voting is done all over globe in the forum I doubt if one can be able to sponsor or add support to gain that kind of vote buying, this could really be as a result of influential forum member who is well know has voted that could trigger such move just as a neutral person who is not in the context, I will cast vote looking as the direction to which the wave is moving though my opinion stand to be corrected, the decision board should be allowed to follow the lay down rules for the contest.