The death of Iran president and seven others

[pooya87]

Also, I am not so well informed on how politics are supposed to work in the Islamic republic of Iran, but is not the president rather a symbolic charge within the contry? does not the supreme leader of the republic hold all the power after all?

In the political hierarchy Supreme Leader is a position that could be seen above the 3 other main positions but realistically each of the 4 positions just serve a different purposes and have different responsibilities. None of the 4 positions in Iran's political structure are "symbolic" and none of them "holds all the power"!
BTW the other 3 are:
- Legislative branch which is the parliament
- Executive branch which is the government with the president
- Judicial branch which is the judicial system with courts and stuff...

[Hallroom]

Who's updated with the news that President Ebrahim Raisi and seven other people were killed in an aircraft?

Do we describe this occurance to be an homicide or fatal aviation accident?
I'm just thinking maybe sometimes we should just look away from how media may twist informations because they're usually not sincere in revealing the reality to the public.

Seven Iranian people were involved in the plane crash which is the saddest news for the country of Iran.  Because he Ibrahim Raisi was the best man and the strongest leader, but it could be an enmity. Because it could be a political assassination strategy, because of the planes that went there, two planes returned and one plane crashed. Although it may be mysterious to me, it is a political murder.

[tomos81]

Who's updated with the news that President Ebrahim Raisi and seven other people were killed in an aircraft?

Do we describe this occurance to be an homicide or fatal aviation accident?
I'm just thinking maybe sometimes we should just look away from how media may twist informations because they're usually not sincere in revealing the reality to the public.

Seven Iranian people were involved in the plane crash which is the saddest news for the country of Iran.  Because he Ibrahim Raisi was the best man and the strongest leader, but it could be an enmity. Because it could be a political assassination strategy, because of the planes that went there, two planes returned and one plane crashed. Although it may be mysterious to me, it is a political murder.

Ibrahim Raisi, a powerful Iranian leader, made three flights to the destination, originally intended to inaugurate the dam in Azerbaijan. After the opening of the dam, the three planes returned together to reach their destination again, but due to thick fog, the planes basically lost their way. And of the three planes that went awry, two of them returned to their destination, but the plane carrying the seven more famous leaders, including Ibrahim Raisi, did not and crashed. It could be a political strategy because how can another plane lose its way during the same destination while returning two planes? Because if this famous Iranian leader is to be taken, this may be a strategy that will allow Iran to rule more neighboring countries.

[paxmao]

Who's updated with the news that President Ebrahim Raisi and seven other people were killed in an aircraft?

Do we describe this occurance to be an homicide or fatal aviation accident?
I'm just thinking maybe sometimes we should just look away from how media may twist informations because they're usually not sincere in revealing the reality to the public.

I am certain that will rise some conspiracies, but i would go for occam's razor in this one because if you can't see 5 meters in a fog, you shouldn't go and fly helicopters next to mountains. Obviously people will try to make sense of it as something other than "act of god", but these things happen and conditions definitely support the idea of it being an accident. If they would be nobodies flying, no one would even blink twice before ruling it as an accident. But now it's going to be conspiracy because president chose to risk his life in a bad weather?

It's like the rich submarine guy who died in usa. No one believed it would be other than accident, even lots of people would benefit for his and his son's death.

As far as I know, the President is not that relevant of a figure. I mean, the guy was travelling in a helicopter that looks taken from an 80´s movie, c´mmon this is supposed to be a a petrol-rich country exporting arms to Ruzzia crazily... is that "Iran Marine 1"?? Jokes apart, it is just crazy to fly a helicopter in those conditions, he must have been in a hurry to get to the local brothel.

[pooya87]

As far as I know, the President is not that relevant of a figure.

In other words you don't know the Iran's political structure at all.

I mean, the guy was travelling in a helicopter that looks taken from an 80´s movie,

Have you even seen the helicopter? It was (and the rest of them are) in perfect operating conditions. Just being manufactured a long time ago doesn't mean it is obsolete. Such old vehicles in perfect shape are in use all over the world.
For example the USS Eisenhower US Navy is overusing these days was built back in the 1970's.
The B-52 bombers the US Airforce is so proud of was built in the 1950's.
Even the Airforce One that carries the US president is two 30-40 year old aircrafts.

Jokes apart, it is just crazy to fly a helicopter in those conditions, he must have been in a hurry to get to the local brothel.

کافر همه را به کیش خود پندارد

[onecall123]

Who's updated with the news that President Ebrahim Raisi and seven other people were killed in an aircraft?

Do we describe this occurance to be an homicide or fatal aviation accident?
I'm just thinking maybe sometimes we should just look away from how media may twist informations because they're usually not sincere in revealing the reality to the public.

The news of the helicopter crash involving Iranian President Raisi and seven others is truly tragic.
As expected there are many conspiracies are already circulating. Some people are blaming Israel and the USA, but the Iranian authorities have not yet determined the real cause of the accident. The investigation is still ongoing, and we need to be patient until the reports are released. Usually, helicopters crash due to bad weather while flying.

[paxmao]

As far as I know, the President is not that relevant of a figure.

In other words you don't know the Iran's political structure at all.

I mean, the guy was travelling in a helicopter that looks taken from an 80´s movie,

Have you even seen the helicopter? It was (and the rest of them are) in perfect operating conditions. Just being manufactured a long time ago doesn't mean it is obsolete. Such old vehicles in perfect shape are in use all over the world.
For example the USS Eisenhower US Navy is overusing these days was built back in the 1970's.
The B-52 bombers the US Airforce is so proud of was built in the 1950's.
Even the Airforce One that carries the US president is two 30-40 year old aircrafts.

Jokes apart, it is just crazy to fly a helicopter in those conditions, he must have been in a hurry to get to the local brothel.

کافر همه را به کیش خود پندارد

If you have checked the helicopter maintenance records and are happy with them, I am happy too.

You are right, many of the US stuff is quite old and some of it is quite new. The air force one however has already a replacement in place and the larger carriers, like  most ships, can be refurbished to the point that only the hull remains. A helicopter is a completely different animal.

But look, I accept your point, old does not mean bad, but if you are carrying a president you should expect some reputational matters on how it looks.

I like your answer. There is also say in Spanish "Piensa el ladron que todos son de su condicion", but the one that applies here is the English: "It takes one to know one"

[pooya87]

I like your answer. There is also say in Spanish "Piensa el ladron que todos son de su condicion", but the one that applies here is the English: "It takes one to know one"

In English it is more correct to be translated to "mad men think all men mad"

This was Tabriz


And this was Qom in mourning accompanying the bodies of the beloved fallen officials as they travel through Iran to the capital (Tehran, tomorrow) and then to their final resting place

And Tehran today...




Tomorrow (last day of funeral) will reach Khorasan...

[Volimack]

The United States is one of the reasons for this heartbreaking incident. The US had imposed an embargo on the sale of any aircraft to Iran. Because of this the President and his associates had to be martyred. This crime of America will be recorded in the memory and history of the people of Iran. America had no role in the crash of this helicopter.

[Gyfts]

The United States is one of the reasons for this heartbreaking incident. The US had imposed an embargo on the sale of any aircraft to Iran. Because of this the President and his associates had to be martyred. This crime of America will be recorded in the memory and history of the people of Iran. America had no role in the crash of this helicopter.

The U.S. is responsible for Iranian aviation accidents now?


I was surprised to learn the Iranian President was being transported in a 30 year old helicopter, in foggy weather no less. Who would have thought that was a bad idea?

[Cossyblack]

I don't think you're right,Iran president is the Most hated ruler in the middle East,

I sometimes wonder where some people get their information from that is so far from reality that it is hard to believe their accounts are real!

The only groups in "Middle East" that hate Iran, Iranians and their elected officials are terrorist organizations.
For example for the past day or so the remainders of ISIS, Israel, Al-Nusra (rebranded Al-Qaida) and smaller terrorist groups have been celebrating the martyrdom of the Iranian president.

On the other hand people and countries across West Asia have been in mourning. In fact many of them have announced between 1 to 5 days of "National Day of Mourning". The list includes but not limited to: India, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Tajikistan, Lebanon, ... that's about a quarter of the world population by the way!

he is a Tyrant and a cruel leader,the people of iran never loved him.

That's another weird thing which I'd love to know what it's source is that is calling a democratically elected president a "tyrant"! Maybe they don't know what that word means?! Or maybe as I said the outlets you are following belongs to one of those terrorist organizations above that is giving you such weird information; in which case you should seriously rethink what sources you follow...

I'm just going to leave these two two pictures here.
This was Tabriz


And this was Qom in mourning accompanying the bodies of the beloved fallen officials as they travel through Iran to the capital (Tehran, tomorrow) and then to their final resting place


Any Iranian news outlet would contain a lot more pictures and videos similar to these from across Iran and its 85 million population.

I was wrong about Iranians not Loving their Late Leader president Ebrahim Raisi.I admit it and i sincerely apologize for that. I Was misinformed and Misleaded by political Journalist/enemies of Iran. He was truly loved by his people and would be greatly missed by all the good people of the Muslim Communities and the world at large

[pooya87]

I was wrong about Iranians not Loving their Late Leader president Ebrahim Raisi.I admit it and i sincerely apologize for that. I Was misinformed and Misleaded by political Journalist/enemies of Iran. He was truly loved by his people and would be greatly missed by all the good people of the Muslim Communities and the world at large

I don't blame you though, I blame the propaganda machine in the West and I also kinda blame Iranian governments for not being able to counter that propaganda well enough on the international scale for the past 45 years, ie. after the Iranian revolution on 1979 where Iranians toppled the US backed dictatorship replacing it with democracy; after which the West declared cold war on Iran.

That's what they do in that cold war, they twist facts and create a narrative that they like for their agenda. This particular case is part of one of their 40-50 strategies used against Iran, something that is commonly known as Iranophobia. It's very easy thing to execute too as long as they have a one sided control over the media.
For example here all they have to do is find 10 or 50 crazy people in Iran (out of the 85 million) who are possibly angry due to the bad economy and would say something like "they are happy the president passed away" and then their propaganda machine puts that under a magnifying glass as if it is the entire population while referring to Iran's democracy as a dictatorship!

When there is nobody to counter that with facts, people tend to believe the only narrative they hear. Just look at how many users in this small topic said the presidency in Iran is just symbolic! Do you think any of them have ever seen any of the 177 principles in Iran's constitution? I don't think so. They just repeat what they hear in the media or read on the internet; and they can't really be blamed.

It's kinda like what we saw in Bitcoin world too. They told people: "Bitcoin is fraud" and they believe it. That's how they curbed its adoption. People are too busy to do any research.

[Freeesta]

I sincerely express my condolences to all the people of Iran in connection with the tragic death of the country's president. I know that he was a wonderful man who was respected and loved by people, he cared about the development and improvement of his country and its people. I hope that the investigation will establish the cause of the terrible tragedy and punish those responsible. I also hear that there were bad weather conditions at the crash site. Perhaps bad weather caused the helicopter crash because if these are political games, then this is terrible.

[paxmao]

I like your answer. There is also say in Spanish "Piensa el ladron que todos son de su condicion", but the one that applies here is the English: "It takes one to know one"

In English it is more correct to be translated to "mad men think all men mad"

This was Tabriz


And this was Qom in mourning accompanying the bodies of the beloved fallen officials as they travel through Iran to the capital (Tehran, tomorrow) and then to their final resting place

And Tehran today...




Tomorrow (last day of funeral) will reach Khorasan...

I am wondering... Are demonstrations against the regime or against the president allowed? or only demonstrations in favour of the president and the like? You, know... is difficult to compare when only some can speak and other's can't. How big would you say a demonstration in favour of a laic (or simply without the Ayatolah) republic would be?

What meaning does this have if there is no chance of supporting anything else?

[SATWAT]

I sincerely express my condolences to all the people of Iran in connection with the tragic death of the country's president. I know that he was a wonderful man who was respected and loved by people, he cared about the development and improvement of his country and its people. I hope that the investigation will establish the cause of the terrible tragedy and punish those responsible. I also hear that there were bad weather conditions at the crash site. Perhaps bad weather caused the helicopter crash because if these are political games, then this is terrible.

There is no doubt this is big tragic, but we never have results and investigations related to these incidents which are common in few Islamic countries few months back we have same type incident in Pakistan while a high profile General died with all ended without any investigation because things like these are common in these countries internal politics.
But I was really surprised with having updates related to this because Iran is rich country which is doing all good in last few decades despite having restriction's from the USA as they are having strong allies like Russia, China and India so still having trouble in aviation is not understandable even all is calling for this as incident, but we can have some internal thing after few years.

[Hispo]

I am wondering... Are demonstrations against the regime or against the president allowed? or only demonstrations in favour of the president and the like? You, know... is difficult to compare when only some can speak and other's can't. How big would you say a demonstration in favour of a laic (or simply without the Ayatolah) republic would be?

What meaning does this have if there is no chance of supporting anything else?

If I recall correctly there were some serious demonstrations a couple of years ago against the regime of Teheran and the way women are treated by the police who is supposed to regulate the morality and conduct of women who walk around in the street and stuff. I think it is actually called the morality police there in Iran. Anyways, during those protests, there was quite brutal prosecution by the regime against protestors and I even recall there were some people who participated in the protests and one they got captured, they got a trial (perhaps not the fairest one) and got sentenced to death. Not sure on what the charges were about, but they were probably religious, something related to apostacy or rebellion against the state.
The point to be done here is Iran is not way a country where the political opposition would be left alone to peacefully protests for a change, either a political one or a societal change. This event and ceremony being held by the state can be both broadcast and be displayed in this manner because of the huge sponsorship and blessing it has by the state itself.
Pretty similar to what we would expect to see here in Venezuela when one of the leaders of the socialist party passes away.

[pooya87]

I am wondering... Are demonstrations against the regime or against the president allowed?

Are demonstration against any regimes in any country in the world "allowed"?

What did the French regime do about 2 years ago when people were protesting the police brutality after they shot a 17-year-old kid in cold blood? They announced Martial Law!
And this is what they've been doing to the Yellow Vest movement in Europe for years:


What are they doing in US and Europe these days to students who are protesting their regimes' support of genocide in Palestine? They are beating them and arresting them and these are peaceful protestors who aren't even looking for a domestic regime change!

...

How big would you say a demonstration in favour of a laic (or simply without the Ayatolah) republic would be?

2 years ago there were riots in Iran, majority of whom were singing a "regime change tune" (or rather a color revolution). At most a couple of hundred participated in it (out of 85 million population of Iran).
In the same month there was anniversary of the Islamic Revolution victory that toppled the US backed dictatorship. Tens of millions participated in that, a record high which was exactly because of these riots were threatening Iran's safety and were being globally advertised as "the majority", the advertisement which is exactly the reason why you are asking this question here.

How big is such a demonstration you ask? Not even a tiny one according to what we've seen.

Anyways, during those protests, there was quite brutal prosecution by the regime against protestors and I even recall there were some people who participated in the protests and one they got captured, they got a trial (perhaps not the fairest one) and got sentenced to death. Not sure on what the charges were about, but they were probably religious, something related to apostacy or rebellion against the state.

Nobody is arrested in Iran for "protesting". Any arrest is either for riots (damaging public or private property), acts of terrorism, acts of espionage and stuff of that nature.

As Trump's National Security Adviser John Bolton confessed on BBC in his live interview, those riots 2 years ago in Iran were orchestrated by United States (operation with the codename Zhina) and it US was arming foreign terrorists (mainly Kurdish separatists that were members of an international terrorist organization called Komoleh) and sending them into Iran.
What Bolton confessed to are acts of terrorism and espionage at the same time.

As for the death sentence, capital crimes such as first degree murder get that sentence. In all cases I've seen from 2 years ago there have been a public court and the videos of the murderers committing the crime (ie. indisputable evidence of the capital crimes) have been available. Such videos are available on the internet already, they're in Farsi though.
For example in one case that took place on Karaj-Tehran highway, I was close to the scene myself. A small group of terrorists shut down the highway by dumping large stones in the middle of it, creating traffic. Then they started attacking the stopped vehicles. In the middle of that chaos a young kid tries to clear a small path so that vehicles can escape. The terrorists seeing this start attacking him with knives and stones (and later they bring out their guns) and brutally murder the kid. Here is some screenshots of the video they recorded themselves of their acts of murder!

The photo on the top shows the murderer hitting the already dying kid in the face with his own shoe.
The photo on the bottom right shows the murderer pulling the dead body of the kid to the side, in front of the cars to block the cleared path and continue the blockade.

The trial these murderers received wasn't just fair it was also more than they deserved.

[AVE5]

The United States is one of the reasons for this heartbreaking incident. The US had imposed an embargo on the sale of any aircraft to Iran. Because of this the President and his associates had to be martyred. This crime of America will be recorded in the memory and history of the people of Iran. America had no role in the crash of this helicopter.

Can you tell in details on what reason the US palced an embargo on the Iranian government prohibitedly on the purchase of aircrafts? I'm totally unaware.
You may actually have got things twisted because you're directly an indirectly saying the US is responsible for the helicopter crash and other hand that the US has no role to the crash of the same helicopter. So if I should go by your thought, literally Israel as suspicious hands may be pointed at would then not take the blame, huh? And should be accepted that it was accidental aviation incident.
But While experts are still undergoing research, let all hands be folded without the accuses and keep eyes on the watchlist.

[paxmao]

I am wondering... Are demonstrations against the regime or against the president allowed?

Are demonstration against any regimes in any country in the world "allowed"?

What did the French regime do about 2 years ago when people were protesting the police brutality after they shot a 17-year-old kid in cold blood? They announced Martial Law!
And this is what they've been doing to the Yellow Vest movement in Europe for years:


What are they doing in US and Europe these days to students who are protesting their regimes' support of genocide in Palestine? They are beating them and arresting them and these are peaceful protestors who aren't even looking for a domestic regime change!

...

How big would you say a demonstration in favour of a laic (or simply without the Ayatolah) republic would be?

2 years ago there were riots in Iran, majority of whom were singing a "regime change tune" (or rather a color revolution). At most a couple of hundred participated in it (out of 85 million population of Iran).
In the same month there was anniversary of the Islamic Revolution victory that toppled the US backed dictatorship. Tens of millions participated in that, a record high which was exactly because of these riots were threatening Iran's safety and were being globally advertised as "the majority", the advertisement which is exactly the reason why you are asking this question here.

How big is such a demonstration you ask? Not even a tiny one according to what we've seen.

Anyways, during those protests, there was quite brutal prosecution by the regime against protestors and I even recall there were some people who participated in the protests and one they got captured, they got a trial (perhaps not the fairest one) and got sentenced to death. Not sure on what the charges were about, but they were probably religious, something related to apostacy or rebellion against the state.

Nobody is arrested in Iran for "protesting". Any arrest is either for riots (damaging public or private property), acts of terrorism, acts of espionage and stuff of that nature.

As Trump's National Security Adviser John Bolton confessed on BBC in his live interview, those riots 2 years ago in Iran were orchestrated by United States (operation with the codename Zhina) and it US was arming foreign terrorists (mainly Kurdish separatists that were members of an international terrorist organization called Komoleh) and sending them into Iran.
What Bolton confessed to are acts of terrorism and espionage at the same time.

As for the death sentence, capital crimes such as first degree murder get that sentence. In all cases I've seen from 2 years ago there have been a public court and the videos of the murderers committing the crime (ie. indisputable evidence of the capital crimes) have been available. Such videos are available on the internet already, they're in Farsi though.
For example in one case that took place on Karaj-Tehran highway, I was close to the scene myself. A small group of terrorists shut down the highway by dumping large stones in the middle of it, creating traffic. Then they started attacking the stopped vehicles. In the middle of that chaos a young kid tries to clear a small path so that vehicles can escape. The terrorists seeing this start attacking him with knives and stones (and later they bring out their guns) and brutally murder the kid. Here is some screenshots of the video they recorded themselves of their acts of murder!

The photo on the top shows the murderer hitting the already dying kid in the face with his own shoe.
The photo on the bottom right shows the murderer pulling the dead body of the kid to the side, in front of the cars to block the cleared path and continue the blockade.

The trial these murderers received wasn't just fair it was also more than they deserved.

Protests against the government and against government actions are allowed in liberal regimes in general yes. If they are violent protests, there is intervention - proportional intervention, most of the times anyway.

As far as I know and see in the streets, I can protest about anything, including the acts of Israel in Palestine or the acts of Hezbollah in Israel or both if I want to, with very few and very reasonable limits.

I have protested myself about many things when I thought it convenient and did not heard of people in general sentenced for just protesting peacefully or having thousands of people in jail like during the latest protests in Iran, much less being hanged. Martial law requires generalised looting or violence or the like, again in general.

The problem is that you are comparing a regime in which people do not have a say or are monitored by the Theocrats with regimes in which you can vote peacefully. In one, you are protesting because you cannot change it, in the other you are protesting because you do not agree with the majority and want to make your problem visible to other.

As you can see, it is a completely different thing. Also, blaming any problem in an external "enemy" is kind of a cliché, I think that people in Iran have heard that so often that probably chuckle at it by now.

What I see here is that the regime is using the death of this president to somehow show that people support them after the massive protests after the death of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahsa_Amini_protests Mahsa Amini. They, as you, know that a good image is an useful tool .





I think that if the US wanted the regime in Iran gone it would be something achievable. But they are too useful to keep the Arabs in the gulf check.

[pooya87]

Protests against the government and against government actions are allowed in liberal regimes in general yes.

So you agree with me that US, UK, France, Germany, ... are not liberal regimes at all.
You can't be a simple worker and join Yellow Vests demanding a better life in Europe because you'll be arrested or worse be maimed which usually is losing an eye or two.
You can't be a collage student in Columbia University, MIT, UCLA, ... and protest against support of genocide because they'll silence you even if you are a handicap person like this kid:

I think that if the US wanted the regime in Iran gone it would be something achievable.

That was a cute joke by the way