🔥 GingerWallet.io - Desktop, Non-custodial, Open source | #CoinJoin

[JollyGood]

Customers not knowing whether they will be allowed to coinjoin is counterproductive to those wanting to use their service.

I do not understand which logic they would apply to create a service based on Wasabi Wallet yet when they forked it instead of removing the same modifications that caused Wasabi Wallet to suffer an enormous loss of reputation, they have kept them implemented even though they knew how the community would react. The question arises, why would they launch a product that will probably not gain traction when they already know blockchain analysis of customers transactions is not accepted by the majority of people in the first place.

About the blockchain analysis, with WasabiWallet I was under the impression coinjoining would not go ahead if the coins were analysed and deemed to be suspicious/taint and have the same impression from the GingerWallet fork. Maybe I understood it wrong.

That's correct. You didn't misunderstand. If the blockchain analysis partner shows thumbs down, those coins can't be used in coinjoin rounds.

[NotATether]

Customers not knowing whether they will be allowed to coinjoin is counterproductive to those wanting to use their service.

I do not understand which logic they would apply to create a service based on Wasabi Wallet yet when they forked it instead of removing the same modifications that caused Wasabi Wallet to suffer an enormous loss of reputation, they have kept them implemented even though they knew how the community would react. The question arises, why would they launch a product that will probably not gain traction when they already know blockchain analysis of customers transactions is not accepted by the majority of people in the first place.

It's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Just like AMLbot (sends all your addresses to law enforcement). I don't even understand why their developer or rep isn't writing on this thread.

[JollyGood]

I have not seem any posts from a Ginger Wallet forum account, maybe they are not interested in engaging with members of the forum after they studied the way members interacted with Kruw (as a so-called Wasabi Wallet contributor that might or might not have actually been employed by zkSNACKs). Or maybe this thread is a pre-cursor to them getting ready to start engaging with members, we do not know but they should have at least started posting here by now.

It's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Just like AMLbot (sends all your addresses to law enforcement). I don't even understand why their developer or rep isn't writing on this thread.

[NotATether]

I have not seem any posts from a Ginger Wallet forum account, maybe they are not interested in engaging with members of the forum after they studied the way members interacted with Kruw (as a so-called Wasabi Wallet contributor that might or might not have actually been employed by zkSNACKs). Or maybe this thread is a pre-cursor to them getting ready to start engaging with members, we do not know but they should have at least started posting here by now.

There is one account on the altcoinstalks forum belonging to a Ginger Wallet rep which has talked about their wallet on that thread - I've talked to it too - but it's just weird how they're just having @icopress create an ANN thread on Bitcointalk but they never show up themselves. It's not like they are banned or anything.

[SFR10]

I have not seem any posts from a Ginger Wallet forum account,

but it's just weird how they're just having @icopress create an ANN thread on Bitcointalk but they never show up themselves.

One of their representatives ^[sztest] used to be somewhat active when he/she created an announcement "thread" prior to this one, but they locked it because of this thread.
^{- The only other place where I'm seeing some recent activities is in one of their GitHub repositories.}

[JollyGood]

There is one account on the altcoinstalks forum belonging to a Ginger Wallet rep which has talked about their wallet on that thread - I've talked to it too - but it's just weird how they're just having @icopress create an ANN thread on Bitcointalk but they never show up themselves. It's not like they are banned or anything.

Maybe icopress was creating the thread in the run-up to them giving the go-ahead for a signature campaign. It is possible something could be happening behind the scenes and just a few people are privy to it. Keeping that to one side, if a Ginger Wallet representative is active on other forums it really would be helpful if they were also active here too because there a lot of questions being asked.

One of their representatives ^[sztest] used to be somewhat active when he/she created an announcement "thread" prior to this one, but they locked it because of this thread.
^{- The only other place where I'm seeing some recent activities is in one of their GitHub repositories.}

I was unaware of that thread and the account. It was created on 15th June 2024 and last active on 3rd July 2024. Maybe they have given up trying to use this forum as a means to attract a customer/user base.

[GingerWallet]

🚀 GingerWallet v2.0.10 is here!
* New Feature: One-click transaction viewing on mempool.space.
* Enhancements: Improved CoinJoin checks, fee estimation, and bug fixes.
* Flexible Browsing: Choose your preferred browser for transaction viewing, including Tor, Brave, Firefox, Chrome, and more!
Update now for a smoother, faster Bitcoin experience!
https://gingerwallet.io


Got questions? Join our Telegram channel and let's chat! 🗨️
🔗 t.me/GingerWallet


🚨 The free remix and friends don't pay features are available only with Wasabi Wallet version 2.0.8.1 or earlier. If you are using a later version, you can still use our Coordinator, but without these benefits.
Download GingerWallet: https://gingerwallet.io

Mod note: Consecutive posts merged

[NotATether]

Why the multi-posting? You should just keep everything in one post at a time instead of posting consecutively.

[icopress]

Why the multi-posting? You should just keep everything in one post at a time instead of posting consecutively.

Ginger, new to the forum... just give them some time to get their bearings. 

[GingerWallet]

Since we operate as a company, a coin verifier solution is essential. This will not impact the average user.
Apologies if any of your questions have gone unanswered. What are they, and how can we assist you?

It seems they are implementing the same use of third party blockchain analysis companies as WasabiWallet did therefore why do it when they saw how fast WasabiWallet lost trust and reputation because of it?

As long as Ginger Wallet is entirely Transparent, I presume they can build a much stronger reputation around their name and Product.  Wasabi lost their reputation because of the way they handled the situation.

Working with Blockchain Analysis is understandable for a team of people who are not willing to compromise their own Safety and Freedom for a Product.  When lies come out, they doxx competitors et cetera, you probably naturally start questioning their real motives.  We never got answers for so many of our questions besides avoidance and 'I do not know', so the situation only became worse and worse.

-----

Got a few curiosities.

I wonder, is Ginger Wallet going to continue only tweaking future versions of Wasabi or are they going an entirely separate path and looking to build a separate Product?

➥ FREE under 0.01 BTC!

This is a great incentive for new users who want to test it out or have small Inputs.  But can this be some how 'abused' by Ginger users resulting in spamming the Blockchain with unnecessary Transactions?  As in splitting their holdings into Inputs of 0.01 Bitcoin so they can avoid the Fees?  In my head, it would cost just about as much or even more if you did this than if you just paid the Fee, so I may be well wrong.

-----

A little note.  On a non Java Script browser, many of the images do not show up.

[JollyGood]

I used GingerWallet with their default gingerwallet co-ordinator because I wanted to know how much time the coin join took to reach 100% and wanted to check the fees incurred.

Ginger Wallet via their co-ordinator are supposed to take fees of 0.3% for deposits that are 0.01 BTC and above, the rest are supposed to be mining fees. In my case, the total deduction when it reached 100% was significantly higher than I expected and the time it took to get there was in double digit hours.

Rather than use a calculator to work out 0.3% from the actual deposit and then assume the difference from the balance is the mining fee, is there a simple way to categorically ascertain how much of the deduction is the co-ordinator fee and how much of it is the mining fee?

Apologies if any of your questions have gone unanswered. What are they, and how can we assist you?

[GingerWallet]

Both Wasabi and Ginger clients aim to avoid generating 'change.' In other words, all coins should be consolidated into specific denominations (those values that are generated by all clients). This means the difference should stay below a certain minimum output amount, which is set at 10,000 satoshis for Ginger. (It’s widely believed that change negatively impacts privacy). However, this can become a significant issue if the client can only participate with low-value coins.

If only a small amount of money remains, it’s advised not to coinjoin (this applies to all clients), as you'll lose an average of 3-5k satoshis per round on top of the mining fee. There's almost certainly no coordinator fee involved.

The mining fee can be calculated, but in an environment with a rate of 3-4 sat/vbyte, it shouldn't be a major expense by itself. The vbyte is roughly 70 times the size of the input coin and 30 times the size of the output coin, and you multiply this by the mining fee. At a rate of 4 satoshis, the cost will be around 3,000-4,000 satoshis (independent of the client, assuming an average number of input/output coins).

I used GingerWallet with their default gingerwallet co-ordinator because I wanted to know how much time the coin join took to reach 100% and wanted to check the fees incurred.

Ginger Wallet via their co-ordinator are supposed to take fees of 0.3% for deposits that are 0.01 BTC and above, the rest are supposed to be mining fees. In my case, the total deduction when it reached 100% was significantly higher than I expected and the time it took to get there was in double digit hours.

Rather than use a calculator to work out 0.3% from the actual deposit and then assume the difference from the balance is the mining fee, is there a simple way to categorically ascertain how much of the deduction is the co-ordinator fee and how much of it is the mining fee?

Apologies if any of your questions have gone unanswered. What are they, and how can we assist you?

🎉 Ginger Free Coinjoin Weekend is here! 🎉
Join us from Friday 20:00 to Monday 08:00 UTC and participate in Ginger Coinjoin rounds with no coordinator fee! Don’t miss out on this opportunity for enhanced privacy at no extra cost. 🚀

[JollyGood]

I will take a look at those figures to work out what happened. Does that mean when coin join reaches a latter part (around 80-90% upwards), it is better to not further coin join as only a small amount remains and it is better to use/move the already parts of the private funds before proceeding further and only after further funds have been added?

The next time I use Ginger Wallet I will change the default co-ordinator to Open Co-ordinator because they charge zero percent fees therefore all that should be deducted is the mining fee. The time it takes to reach 100% privacy will be a key comparator the time Ginger Wallet took.

Both Wasabi and Ginger clients aim to avoid generating 'change.' In other words, all coins should be consolidated into specific denominations (those values that are generated by all clients). This means the difference should stay below a certain minimum output amount, which is set at 10,000 satoshis for Ginger. (It’s widely believed that change negatively impacts privacy). However, this can become a significant issue if the client can only participate with low-value coins.

If only a small amount of money remains, it’s advised not to coinjoin (this applies to all clients), as you'll lose an average of 3-5k satoshis per round on top of the mining fee. There's almost certainly no coordinator fee involved.

The mining fee can be calculated, but in an environment with a rate of 3-4 sat/vbyte, it shouldn't be a major expense by itself. The vbyte is roughly 70 times the size of the input coin and 30 times the size of the output coin, and you multiply this by the mining fee. At a rate of 4 satoshis, the cost will be around 3,000-4,000 satoshis (independent of the client, assuming an average number of input/output coins).

[GingerWallet]

I will take a look at those figures to work out what happened. Does that mean when coin join reaches a latter part (around 80-90% upwards), it is better to not further coin join as only a small amount remains and it is better to use/move the already parts of the private funds before proceeding further and only after further funds have been added?

The next time I use Ginger Wallet I will change the default co-ordinator to Open Co-ordinator because they charge zero percent fees therefore all that should be deducted is the mining fee. The time it takes to reach 100% privacy will be a key comparator the time Ginger Wallet took.

Both Wasabi and Ginger clients aim to avoid generating 'change.' In other words, all coins should be consolidated into specific denominations (those values that are generated by all clients). This means the difference should stay below a certain minimum output amount, which is set at 10,000 satoshis for Ginger. (It’s widely believed that change negatively impacts privacy). However, this can become a significant issue if the client can only participate with low-value coins.

If only a small amount of money remains, it’s advised not to coinjoin (this applies to all clients), as you'll lose an average of 3-5k satoshis per round on top of the mining fee. There's almost certainly no coordinator fee involved.

The mining fee can be calculated, but in an environment with a rate of 3-4 sat/vbyte, it shouldn't be a major expense by itself. The vbyte is roughly 70 times the size of the input coin and 30 times the size of the output coin, and you multiply this by the mining fee. At a rate of 4 satoshis, the cost will be around 3,000-4,000 satoshis (independent of the client, assuming an average number of input/output coins).

You can always check your coins and their privacy level at the wallet's coin list or at the coinjoin bar. At opencoordinator you will also lose the "change" money, this is a client thing, not a server side thing. The client decides not to create change.

Also please consider using the Ginger Wallet directly, it can be installed parallel to Wasabi, has slightly different coinjoin solutions. Only one can run at a time though.

Also don't forget that we will have a free weekend.

[JollyGood]

I did not look in to either Wasabi Wallet, Ginger Wallet or Open Co-ordinator enough to know about any of these operating a system that facilitates users to lose change as a trade-off for increased privacy. A side question, you were probably hoping for more activity in this thread therefore does it concern you there in not much traction in this forum regarding your Ginger Wallet product?

You can always check your coins and their privacy level at the wallet's coin list or at the coinjoin bar. At opencoordinator you will also lose the "change" money, this is a client thing, not a server side thing. The client decides not to create change.

Also please consider using the Ginger Wallet directly, it can be installed parallel to Wasabi, has slightly different coinjoin solutions. Only one can run at a time though.

Also don't forget that we will have a free weekend.

[GingerWallet]

I did not look in to either Wasabi Wallet, Ginger Wallet or Open Co-ordinator enough to know about any of these operating a system that facilitates users to lose change as a trade-off for i creased privacy. A side question, you were probably hoping for more activity in this thread therefore does it concern you there in not much traction in this forum regarding your Ginger Wallet product?

You can always check your coins and their privacy level at the wallet's coin list or at the coinjoin bar. At opencoordinator you will also lose the "change" money, this is a client thing, not a server side thing. The client decides not to create change.

Also please consider using the Ginger Wallet directly, it can be installed parallel to Wasabi, has slightly different coinjoin solutions. Only one can run at a time though.

Also don't forget that we will have a free weekend.

Currently we are working on the client to distinguish ourselves and change this tendency.
Unfortunately this takes longer than expected, but we plan to release new client versions every 2-3 weeks for the next couple of months.

[GingerWallet]

🚨 Reminder! 🚨
The Ginger Free Coinjoin Weekend starts today at 20:00 UTC! Take advantage of zero coordinator fees and join our Coinjoin rounds. This special offer runs until Monday 08:00 UTC. Don't miss out!

[GingerWallet]

🚨 Don’t forget! 🚨
The Ginger Free Coinjoin Weekend is in full swing! Join our Coinjoin rounds with zero coordinator fees until Monday 08:00 UTC. Time’s ticking—enhance your privacy while you can!

[JollyGood]

I cannot see why updating the client every 2-3 weeks is going to address issues about the product not being taken up by customers in huge numbers. I think the lack of awareness about the Ginger Wallet name/brand (and what the software actually does) is probably down to lack of awareness because of not having appropriate publicity targeting a suitable audience.

If more people were aware of the software maybe it would be have higher numbers of people using it. Also, the coin join analysis by Ginger Wallet could possibly be another factor behind people not downloading it.

A side question, you were probably hoping for more activity in this thread therefore does it concern you there in not much traction in this forum regarding your Ginger Wallet product?

Currently we are working on the client to distinguish ourselves and change this tendency.
Unfortunately this takes longer than expected, but we plan to release new client versions every 2-3 weeks for the next couple of months.

[GingerWallet]

We added Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) in our new release for more protection!
You can download the new version and read more on our website. https://gingerwallet.io