Shouldn't there be a forum rule against obvious AI-generated content?

[Alone055]

I know that if we report AI-generated texts or content to moderators, they get deleted, and I also know that there is a thread for reporting AI-generated posts (I'm unable to find that thread at the moment, sorry), but, shouldn't there be an official rule in the unofficial list of forum rules against obvious AI-generated content and posts?

I use the word "obvious" because some people might argue that it's not always possible to find out whether a post has been written by a human or an AI model, but if you have used AI models yourself or you have some experience with them, you would know that the texts they usually generate will have some sort of a pattern that makes them easy to spot. Look at the snap below as an example:



There are three posts shown in the picture. Now, there are two things that you need to note. First, all the posts are starting with an almost similar tone, "You've raised some...", "You've hit the nail...", etc. The second thing is that you will not be able to find a single grammatical or punctuation mistake in all the posts. Why? Because AI is too perfect, it won't make mistakes that humans do such as forgetting a dot, maybe a comma, or maybe making a grammatical mistake in one of the sentences, etc.

So, the point is, that I believe we should have an official rule against obvious AI-generated content being posted on the forum. It should say something like:

34. Using AI-generated content and passing it on as your own is not allowed.

Anyone reported to moderators for breaking the rule should get a temporary ban initially, and if they don't stop, the second report should get them permanently banned. Alternatively, maybe there can be some other restriction that can be imposed for breaking this rule.

Looking forward to your opinions on this.

[wiss19]

I do not think any new rule needs to be added just because of AI content creation.

It can be treated under plagiarism or even spam.

[dkbit98]

For me AI generated content in forum fits nicely under rule number 33:

Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.

You can actually use AI generated text for something and post it in forum, but you should post it with quotes and add note that this text was generated with xyz AI.
Anything else is going to be considered as zero or low value post and cheating.
If detected post gets reported to mods.
Simple.

[Alone055]

It can be treated under plagiarism or even spam.

For me AI generated content in forum fits nicely under rule number 33:

Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.

Yes, but it's not clear plagiarism because the content is not taken from somewhere on the web, or a forum or anywhere, it's just generated through a bot and used as if it's written by the user himself.

You can actually use AI generated text for something and post it in forum, but you should post it with quotes and add note that this text was generated with xyz AI.

That's different and shouldn't be punishable just as how you can provide reference with copied content and don't get punished for plagiarism.

[YOSHIE]

Looking forward to your opinions on this.

Maybe idea of ​​the rule of not being allowed to use AI is valid, but AI artificial intelligence chatbot technology is very difficult to eliminate. To overcome the problem of cheating, it is very complicated at the moment, What's more, lately many people have come here as beginners by buying an account and want to quickly get involved in paid campaigns. Al fast alternative for them.

The fixed rules of behavior for cheating using the Al method cannot be removed, these rules will add a little to the mod's work, some Al content is difficult to detect, maybe some is easy, this will add to the list of hours spent staying up late for mods, For me, if you find those who cheat the results from Al, you can report them, that way I think it will reduce those who cheat with Al, From my perspective, 90% of users cheat Al. Most of their accounts are bought, aka newcomers using old newcomers.

[Cricktor]

~

Do you understand what plagiarism is? You plagiarize when you make someone's or something's content appear as if it were your own. If you deliberately omit the source of presented content when it isn't yours, you plagiarize.

Doesn't matter if its a bot or copied from a website or chatbot prompt output. Doesn't matter if you have a browser extension that talks to ChatGPT or whatever behind the scenes. If it generates text that you wouldn't have come up on your own, it's not your content. Don't make it look like it is your own content, to be safe always provide a source reference.

[Alone055]

The fixed rules of behavior for cheating using the Al method cannot be removed, these rules will add a little to the mod's work, some Al content is difficult to detect, maybe some is easy, this will add to the list of hours spent staying up late for mods, For me, if you find those who cheat the results from Al, you can report them, that way I think it will reduce those who cheat with Al, From my perspective, 90% of users cheat Al. Most of their accounts are bought, aka newcomers using old newcomers.

I think this will ease the burden of moderators. A user's 200 posts being reported and deleted by a moderator will increase their burden but if the same user gets banned or restricted for breaking a rule within the first 10 to 20 reported posts, that makes it easier for them.

Do you understand what plagiarism is? You plagiarize when you make someone's or something's content appear as if it were your own. If you deliberately omit the source of presented content when it isn't yours, you plagiarize.

Doesn't matter if its a bot or copied from a website or chatbot prompt output. Doesn't matter if you have a browser extension that talks to ChatGPT or whatever behind the scenes. If it generates text that you wouldn't have come up on your own, it's not your content. Don't make it look like it is your own content, to be safe always provide a source reference.

I know what plagiarism is, and I know it's technically plagiarism, but I said it's not provable or clear plagiarism because you can't find concrete evidence for it since the content generated is only available to that specific user and no one else, so if you report it as plagiarism, you can't prove it, technically.

[Just Say]

I know that if we report AI-generated texts or content to moderators, they get deleted, and I also know that there is a thread for reporting AI-generated posts (I'm unable to find that thread at the moment, sorry), but, shouldn't there be an official rule in the unofficial list of forum rules against obvious AI-generated content and posts?

Looking forward to your opinions on this.

Hey @Alone055 you should go to this thread and post the one I'm referring to you can't find it right now. AI Spam Report Reference Thread The member you refer to here have already discussed those posts on the AI Spam Report Reference Thread. Even that member has been given a neutral tag.

[Rikafip]

I know what plagiarism is, and I know it's technically plagiarism, but I said it's not provable or clear plagiarism because you can't find concrete evidence for it since the content generated is only available to that specific user and no one else, so if you report it as plagiarism, you can't prove it, technically.

You can use that argument to say that you can't prove with 100% certainty that someone uses AI bot as well which would then make the rule against AI generated content useless.

As others said, plagiarism rule covers this nicely, but unfortunately mods are less leniant to ban people over that type of plagiarism (some would say for any type of plagiarism as well). At least for now.

[tranthidung]

If you copy and paste a content for any source, but you don't announce the source link, it's plagiarism.

AI-generated, or human-generated, it's the same because if you are not an original author of the content, you plagiarized.

Since last two years, many discussions and proposals against AI.
This forum will need explicit rules on the use of AI.
AI-generated post discussion thread: how to identify & report
AI generated content by newbies
Plagiarism vs AI Posting
What's AI Written Post?

Report any AI-generated post to
AI Spam Report Reference Thread

[Alpha Marine]

Yes, but it's not clear plagiarism because the content is not taken from somewhere on the web, or a forum or anywhere, it's just generated through a bot and used as if it's written by the user himself.

According to the Oxford Dictionary, "Plagiarism is the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own"
From this definition, we can say that posting an AI-generated post is plagiarism because they took a work that's not theirs and posted it as theirs. It's no different from taking content on the internet and posting it as mine. Someone or something else wrote that, so if you must use it, you have to reference where it came from.

So I think the forum is right to classify AI-generated posts that are without referring as plagiarism and award the same punishment to all parties.
To me, it's even easier to spot an AI-generated post. I've reported more AI-generated posts than I have reported a plagiarised post from another website or article. Once those kinds of posts as reported and they are confirmed, they're deleted immediately.

[Coyster]

I agree that people who post AI content should be banned for plagiarism, but i believe mods don't want to start banning people for it because some of the AI detection tools give false positives if you run a post through them.

I'm aware that there are certain tools that give "accurate" results if a post is generated by AI or not, but maybe mods don't want to solely depend on these "external" tools to ban users on the forum, because it will prolly create a lot of drama with users claiming that the tools were wrong about their posts.

[tranthidung]

According to the Oxford Dictionary, "Plagiarism is the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own"

Plagiarism definition in the forum is not the same as in academic space. The definition on plagiarism can be universal or local and you can see Bitcoin forum is a strictest forum against plagiarism in comparison with other cryptocurrency forums.

It is case to case basis, and with my experience here, it's time to time basis too. What is time to time basis?

Punishment on plagiarism can be different at different times, sometimes it was nothing (forum did not care about it), sometimes it was strict, sometimes there is second chance but strict reviews, sometimes second of second chances, and sometimes a poster must make dozens of plagiarized posts to be banned.

In general, I'm all for being lenient. There are users who have been temp banned many times but still haven't been permabanned because their contributions outweigh their misbehavior. I actively disbelieve in the idea of a "rule of law" where hard rules exist and are strictly applied across the board as if we're all robots. Every case should be considered individually in the context of the forum's mission.

Plagiarism is what gets people permabanned, not just copying. Plagiarism is copying with the intent of passing the work off as your own. In essentially all cases, plagiarism deserves a permaban because it usually proves definitively that the person is here for the wrong reasons: to fill up space in order to get paid, not to actually discuss or contribute. If someone was able to convince us that they were plagiarizing just to eg. impress people rather than to fill up space, then a lesser ban of a few months might instead be warranted. But this has never happened AFAICR. (Arguments based on plausible deniability aren't going to work; we don't need to prove that you had the motive we see in your actions.)

If you treat posting as a job, a chore, then you must live in fear, since the forum is not made for you. In this case, you need to blend in as someone who actually cares, but plagiarism will immediately out you, and producing a mountain of useless posts will also eventually be noticed, if more slowly. If you do actually care, then this will be obvious in your posts (and probably your merit score), and you will have nothing to fear from moderators; even allegations of plagiarism will be doubted when seen in the context of your other posts.

in extreme cases could be copyright theft?

Plagiarism is almost always a copyright violation which could conceivably get the poster in a lot of trouble, but it's not a bigger legal issue for the forum than anything else. (Using the forum to violate copyright is never allowed, though.)

when copying and pasting from the net can it lower google rankings? and internal copy and past could do the same thing?

That's not a particular concern of mine.

even memes may soon constitute copyright theft

Only in the EUSSR.

[Alone055]

Hey @Alone055 you should go to this thread and post the one I'm referring to you can't find it right now. AI Spam Report Reference Thread The member you refer to here have already discussed those posts on the AI Spam Report Reference Thread. Even that member has been given a neutral tag.

Thank you for this. I looked but couldn't find the thread, I guess I was looking in the wrong section for it. If I had found it earlier, I would have been able to report the guy before LoyceV, I guess.  

As others said, plagiarism rule covers this nicely, but unfortunately mods are less leniant to ban people over that type of plagiarism (some would say for any type of plagiarism as well). At least for now.

I agree that people who post AI content should be banned for plagiarism, but i believe mods don't want to start banning people for it because some of the AI detection tools give false positives if you run a post through them.

I'm aware that there are certain tools that give "accurate" results if a post is generated by AI or not, but maybe mods don't want to solely depend on these "external" tools to ban users on the forum, because it will prolly create a lot of drama with users claiming that the tools were wrong about their posts.

At least users who are posting obvious AI-generated content should get punished for it. Even if they don't want to, mods will have to depend on external tools in this case because that is the only way it can be proved that these plagiarizers are doing the wrong thing.

[Lucius]

I know that if we report AI-generated texts or content to moderators, they get deleted, and I also know that there is a thread for reporting AI-generated posts (I'm unable to find that thread at the moment, sorry), but, shouldn't there be an official rule in the unofficial list of forum rules against obvious AI-generated content and posts?~snip~

No offense, but you are already an old member of the forum and you should know how to find a topic, and especially you should know that such a topic is probably in the Reputation board.

Regarding your question, I think that it should definitely be added to the unofficial rules of the forum the rule about AI, because it is obvious that too many users of this forum think that using the same thing is completely normal, which means that the forum is increasingly under the attack of AI spammers against whom less than 10 members are fighting on the entire forum.

Clear rules and strict penalties if it is proven beyond doubt that someone is using AI for their posts are the only thing that can prevent such behavior.

[tranthidung]

No offense, but you are already an old member of the forum and you should know how to find a topic, and especially you should know that such a topic is probably in the Reputation board.

If he does not know, he can learn and now is the time for it.

• [Guide] Searching effectively
• theymos explained about forum search with some guides, days ago.

I use the forum search a lot, but you really need to know how it works and how to deal with its quirks. Some tips:

• If you search for candy corn, it will return posts with both "candy" and "corn" in their bodies or subjects. The two words are keywords that can be separated, so it would match the phrase "I like candy, but I don't like corn". If you instead search for "candy corn", with the quotes, then the two words have to appear right next to each other as a single phrase.
• With the default settings, it will only return the last post in a topic that matches, even if more posts in that topic match. To change this, enable the option "Show results as messages".
• If more than about 5 pages of topics would be returned, then only an arbitrary subset of all results will be returned. To avoid this, setting a message-age restriction is often a good approach.
• If you use the search box in the upper right while in a topic or board, then it only searches that topic or board (& sub-boards).
• If one of the words in your search is incredibly common on the forum, like "the", then search will return bad, weird results, or may time-out after hanging for a long time. This applies even if the common word is in a quoted phrase, like "the president". Some decent-looking results may be returned, but posts which should be returned will not be.

[LoyceV]

Not only the obvious ones, all AI verbal diarrhea should be banned. From the forum, but even better if it's banned from the internet.

I use the word "obvious" because some people might argue that it's not always possible to find out whether a post has been written by a human or an AI model

All the more reason to ban it all. If the user doesn't use a chatbot to create some text to pretend he wrote it, he doesn't have to worry about being obvious or not.

For me AI generated content in forum fits nicely under rule number 33:

Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.

Agreed. But why don't they all get banned instantly?

[KingsDen]

I agree that people who post AI content should be banned for plagiarism, but i believe mods don't want to start banning people for it because some of the AI detection tools give false positives if you run a post through them.

Not only because there's no accurate AI detection tool. I believe that theymos doesn't want to enforce a rule yet, this might be because AI is pretty much new and could develop to something better than spammers using it to generate posts in the forum. Making a rule against it might later contradict the forum in the future or impede the exploration of the technology.

However, even without admin's intervention, forum members have started fighting AI spammers, but it's not going to be an easy war. But in the end, people can't stop using AI to generate posts in the forum. It's better we starting learning how to accommodate it as part of forum happenings just like plagerism.

[wiss19]

For me AI generated content in forum fits nicely under rule number 33:

Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.

Agreed. But why don't they all get banned instantly?

Not get banned because mods not seeing AI contents as plagiarism? Now, I get why OP started this discussion. You nailed it @LoyceV .

[promise444c5]

OP didn't  show the username but showed the id
OP's Suspect=> Princeeibn

Generally I think once a post uses a chat bot to generate a reply  for a post or let's just say Ai generated text as you've  said , there's no how it won't plagiarise because it uses available  resources to answer your question  and that's gonna plagiarise someone's content nmw. Now detecting it sometimes could be tricky.... because you see some similar word  expressions in a post doesn't really means it's AI generated though  the user above could  have  used an Ai for his/her  content.
Thus even if the rule is  been created(apart from the plagiarism), the content still needs to be reported and the  decisions will still have to be carried out by mod.