NEO and BEE talk (unmoderated)

[NotLambchop]

^
Actually, the community is trusting to the point of gullibility -- it gets taken again, again, and again.  So no, scams is not all it sees -- you, for one, are *still not convinced*.

[SebastianJu]

Danny, please release the usernames/contact details of the people who threatened your daughter, its only fair that the witch-hunt is now directed at them.

Danny wrote that he had to stop communicating with the staff because he didnt know if they were connected to the scams. So no names available i guess.

What i dont understand is... how is it possible to trash all the IPO-Money? I dont see what big investments had to be done.

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

What i dont understand is... how is it possible to trash all the IPO-Money? I dont see what big investments had to be done.

One friend of mine has interesting point of view on this. I questioned : How is possible to spend so many millions in one month without any result?

he answered : You know, it doesn't need to be actually spend, it could be effectively laundered away. Easy with Bitcoin.

[michaelGedi]

^
Actually, the community is trusting to the point of gullibility -- it gets taken again, again, and again.  So no, scams is not all it sees -- you, for one, are *still not convinced*.

sorry mate... innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

until you actually give something of substance you can perhaps do your best to keep your speculation to yourself, it's people like you that may well be responsible for egging others on to the point of threatening behaviour...

Danny, please release the usernames/contact details of the people who threatened your daughter, its only fair that the witch-hunt is now directed at them.

Danny wrote that he had to stop communicating with the staff because he didnt know if they were connected to the scams. So no names available i guess.

What i dont understand is... how is it possible to trash all the IPO-Money? I dont see what big investments had to be done.

lack of liquidity does not = spent funds...

e.g. if the bitcoins are being held as part of their pegged deposit scheme, but they need additional funds for expenses outside of those bitcoins allocated for that scheme, (now I'm no economist/business student so correct me if *THIS definition* is wrong), would that not equate to a lack of liquidity?

[SebastianJu]

Danny, please release the usernames/contact details of the people who threatened your daughter, its only fair that the witch-hunt is now directed at them.

Danny wrote that he had to stop communicating with the staff because he didnt know if they were connected to the scams. So no names available i guess.

What i dont understand is... how is it possible to trash all the IPO-Money? I dont see what big investments had to be done.

lack of liquidity does not = spent funds...

e.g. if the bitcoins are being held as part of their pegged deposit scheme, but they need additional funds for expenses outside of those bitcoins allocated for that scheme, (now I'm no economist/business student so correct me if *THIS definition* is wrong), would that not equate to a lack of liquidity?

I believe they simply dont have the money since danny often wrote that he could pay the debts if coins werent lost there and there and he could pay it with his own money if he didnt lost personally so much too.

So it sounds to me like they simply dont have the money. If it would be bound somehow he would have stated it the same way he explained that he lost money with weex and mtgox.

Though i have no proof. It only sounds that way to me...

[Phildo]

Re. your edit:  A financial statement has been promised and never issued.

If you closely inspect the prospectus, you'l read that the quarterly financial statement is indeed promised, but the timeframe in which that statement would be released is not clear.

The only thing they mentioned a timeframe on are the dividends. Which should've been issued 2 days ago at midnight.

Didn't someone say the financials would be released at the end of last week or the week before on twitter?

[velacreations]

the fact is, that announcement provides no details for what is going on, and raises more questions than it answers. LMB needs to make a real announcement right now and lay the cards out on the table.

Here's what is needed:
1. A financial report that shows where the IPO funds are, how much was spent, how much remains, etc.
2. A statement that explains what happened with the trading/suspicious activity. 
3. When will trading will be resumed?
4. How will operations proceed, and what's the plan for getting the company back on track?

That is the bare minimum of what is required, here.  Anything else is adding insult to injury.

I'd also like to hear TAT's version of things. His behavior indicates something major was going on behind the scenes, and he needs to come clean.

[velacreations]

I believe they simply dont have the money since danny often wrote that he could pay the debts if coins werent lost there and there and he could pay it with his own money if he didnt lost personally so much too.

So it sounds to me like they simply dont have the money. If it would be bound somehow he would have stated it the same way he explained that he lost money with weex and mtgox.

Though i have no proof. It only sounds that way to me...

I got the same impression from what he wrote.  Party's over, no money to keep things running.  If that's true, there is some serious explaining to do.  How the hell do you not have enough funds to make it beyond your first month of operation? 

[Phildo]

I read every single post in NEOBEE thread from the start of this fiasco and I never saw any "threat to his family", sounds bullshit to me, can anyone quote that "threat" please ? btw gross irresponsible incompetence here, another Karpeles  he's running away with your money and covering with bullshit excuses ... I am very very curious if somebody will be able to raise any capital via IPO offering in "bitcoin securities market" after this.

it was apparently a direct threat...

this community makes me laugh, people are so used to scams that it's all they'll ever see. The best part is you can't see the difference between scam and failure/problem/setback, it's just all scam...

do you happen to know what percentage of startups fail?

The problem is people get too distracted. Who knows why people come and scream scam, but investors spend so much time arguing with them that they fail to see the failure/problem/setbacks coming and end up with the same result as if it was a scam.

Total scam, something that turned into a scam, something that was a good idea that got unlucky, a good idea being run by someone who is incompetent, a bad idea with good people, good idea with good people that got ruined by bad luck/timing/something unforeseeable screwing them, something they should have seen coming screwing them, a meteor, it doesn't matter, they all end up with the same result, people having less coins than they started.

People were so busy arguing that Danny was in Cyprus (even though he wasn't) that they didn't care about the lack of financial reports or the fact hat they had been open for a month, and had invested in what appears to be the world's most expensive bitcoin info both

[sporket]

^
Actually, the community is trusting to the point of gullibility -- it gets taken again, again, and again.  So no, scams is not all it sees -- you, for one, are *still not convinced*.

sorry mate... innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

until you actually give something of substance you can perhaps do your best to keep your speculation to yourself, it's people like you that may well be responsible for egging others on to the point of threatening behaviour...

Before guilt could be proven, an accusation needs to be made -- not the other way around.  Mate.
Further, presumption of innocence is the basis of most criminal, not civil, law.  There are countries with civil law based on presumption of innocence, but most of the world does without it.
Rigors of proof, for most, don't need to match mathematical rigor.  We know that NeoBee is done even without a fork sticking out of its belly, yet some are still demanding moar proof.

[Phildo]

What i dont understand is... how is it possible to trash all the IPO-Money? I dont see what big investments had to be done.

One friend of mine has interesting point of view on this. I questioned : How is possible to spend so many millions in one month without any result?

he answered : You know, it doesn't need to be actually spend, it could be effectively laundered away. Easy with Bitcoin.

That is also an important lesson to be learned from this. All of the people who spent the last week proving that this wasn't a scam did so by pointing out that they had spent lots of money. Spending money doesn't necessarily mean it's going to a smart place or that you are going to be making money.

[sporket]

...
I'd also like to hear TAT's version of things. His behavior indicates something major was going on behind the scenes, and he needs to come clean.

There's a chance that TAT can't be fully open without running into legal/ethical problems.  I don't know, simply tossing a hypothetical out there.

[Darkstone2]

lack of liquidity does not = spent funds...

e.g. if the bitcoins are being held as part of their pegged deposit scheme, but they need additional funds for expenses outside of those bitcoins allocated for that scheme, (now I'm no economist/business student so correct me if *THIS definition* is wrong), would that not equate to a lack of liquidity?

Pretty much this. From Danny's post, i don't get the impression that they're bankrupt. Just that they didn't have cash available with the actual liquidity tucked away.. somewhere.

A portion obviously for customer funds. The rest? I don't know. An financial report would be useful for this one.

Rigors of proof, for most, don't need to match mathematical rigor.  We know that NeoBee is done even without a fork sticking out of its belly, yet some are still demanding moar proof.

We know nothing except that Danny intends to step down as CEO and that the date for paying dividends is late. That hardly looks like 'We know NeoBee is done' to me.

[NotLambchop]

As I said, it looks that way to me, though I could also create a hypothetical where NeoBee makes everyone rich and my cat discovers cold fusion.  Metaphysically possible but improbable.
On a cheerier note, no dividends were missed because you were not due any dividends.  Dividends come from profits, of which there were obviously none.

[velacreations]

Dividends come from profits, of which there were obviously none.

What evidence leads you to that conclusion?  Is there a financial report you have that the rest of us don't?

[NotLambchop]

Dividends come from profits, of which there were obviously none.

What evidence leads you to that conclusion?  Is there a financial report you have that the rest of us don't?

Again, this is simply a commonsensical assumption.  There is some evidence of expenses (photos of branch, press photos, ad campaign, etc., etc.) and no evidence of income (no announcements of live BTC trading or deposits).  If you would like more rigorous proof, I, again, got nothing.
I'm even unsure if you were due a quarterly financial.  Danny has stated that such statements will be issued, but no start date has ever been set.  If quarterly reports started from the IPO date, you should have already had one.

[Darkstone2]

Dividends come from profits, of which there were obviously none.

Highly likely. But even if there are no dividends i would expect a statement saying that there are no dividends this period.

And i'm not living in a world where my cat discovers cold fusion. I live in a world where facts are important and rumors are unimportant.

[fr33d0miz3r]

Buy the brand new company Neo&Bee with all their debts?
No. They don't have any reputation, clients etc. I would rather start a new company, it would be much cheaper for me.

That's what would every potential investor think during a meeting with Danny. So, there is no chance Neo&Bee will work in the future.
Glad I sold my shares and withdrew my bitcoins from Havelock.

I'm really lucky, guys! I withdrew all my BTC from MtGox right before their trouble/closing, and sold all my NeoBee shares right before their closing. LOL.

[NotLambchop]

@Darkstone2,
Rumors are extremely important in my world, as is knowing how to gauge their validity.  It's hard for me to say whether you should have expected a report by now, since I don't invest in companies that are intentionally vague with such details.  But yeah, if I was in your shoes I'd be pissed.  Honestly don't know what else to say.

[velacreations]

I don't think anyone was expecting a profit one month into this thing, but maybe I'm wrong.  If someone was expecting profits, I'd like to know why.

That doesn't excuse the lack of financial information, but I hesitate to assume anything when we don't have that information. Especially with Danny mentioning liquidity issues, a full financial report is absolutely necessary immediately.