China or No China, Here's My Prediction for the Long-Term...

[jamesc760]

Get over it. BTC price will never go up to $10000 or $5000. Not even $2000. Here's why.

Institutional Investers are not coming. They are risk-averse as a group. They do not like volatility in their invesstment portfolio. They prize stability most of all. Bitcoin is a bit too volatile for their taste. They are not going to put their money in something that loses 60% of its value overnight.

Too many people bought in during the China-induced bubble at the end of last year. They have seen the value of their bitcoins plummet. Some people have lost their life savings. They will cash out if BTC goes up to $1000 level, if they have not cashed out yet. After cashing out, they will never come back. Once bitten, twice shy.

Bitcoin has failed as a currency. It is a store of value, a commodity like gold. How many people would like to use gold strictly as currency? After 4 and a half years, Satoshi Nakamoto's vision has been turned upside down; The BTC experiment is a failure. Without a strong government support, you can't have a secure, reliably and stable currency.

Bitcoin will continue its meandering ways like this forever or until its demise. There is no S-Curve. There is no magic ride to Million dollar trend line. This is it, folks.

[Sawadekub]

Get over it. BTC price will never go up to $10000 or $5000. Not even $2000. Here's why.

Institutional Investers are not coming. They are risk-averse as a group. They do not like volatility in their invesstment portfolio. They prize stability most of all. Bitcoin is a bit too volatile for their taste. They are not going to put their money in something that loses 60% of its value overnight.

Too many people bought in during the China-induced bubble at the end of last year. They have seen the value of their bitcoins plummet. Some people have lost their life savings. They will cash out if BTC goes up to $1000 level, if they have not cashed out yet. After cashing out, they will never come back. Once bitten, twice shy.

Bitcoin has failed as a currency. It is a store of value, a commodity like gold. How many people would like to use gold strictly as currency? After 4 and a half years, Satoshi Nakamoto's vision has been turned upside down; The BTC experiment is a failure. Without a strong government support, you can't have a secure, reliably and stable currency.

Bitcoin will continue its meandering ways like this forever or until its demise. There is no S-Curve. There is no magic ride to Million dollar trend line. This is it, folks.

everything has a volatility when they first started, just like banks in the olden days.. last time no one will keep their money in their bank.. because they are scared..
gold and silver is volatile too
last time police wear short pants, last time guys have long hair, by the way investors will come once there is much support for decentralized crypto currency because there are only limited amount of them..

its just like abalone and shark fins, just taste normal but they are expensive why? limited and rare..
its not if bitcoin will get support from goverment.. is only when will they get supported.. and i think soon,

remember not long ago California just pass the bill for bitcoin to be legalize tender? remember winklevoss said their SEC process is going on very well? remember secondmarket says 4th quarter of this year? do u even read news dude? i think your brains only have news in the past not the future.. LOL!
and yes.. if u quit bitcoin sell me cheap please.. why stay here? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



bitcoin TO DA MOONN

[gentlemand]

Several hundred thousand coins have been publicly declared to be in the hands of investment professionals already. They treated it as a commodity long before it was declared as such by the IRS.

[cosmofly]

Thank u james this is the message ive been relaying

4 waves in 5 years is a lot, the S curve is over we are already at the top if the s curve. People here keep saying we will have endless waves of upside no way.

There will still be money made in bitcoin but for pro day traders from fluctations there is no more buy hold and earn 500%+

[m3g4tr0n]

Bitcoin has failed as a currency.

Last time I checked, adoption was still going up. Square does not add failed currencies to their options.

[spazzdla]

You people understand a 7 billion dollar mareket cap is pretty much nothing...  Understand that and you'll understand why people laugh at the idea BTC can't hit 10k +.

[the_sunship]

As I've read numerous times on this forum, it's going to the moon or to the ground.

As of right now, I don't see how this ends up at 0. Probably one of the benefits of Bitcoin is - it isn't a company (like Enron), so various good and bad players come in to work with it and the bad players screw up and drop out and the good players find rewards and move forward. BTC doesn't care. It just waits around for good ideas to be built on top of it. We haven't really gotten to that point yet on a wide scale.

We're early in the development of this technology and we have no idea what a bitcoin might be used for in the future. It might become a proof of ownership (like a notary), and that means it's function as "currency" would be only one aspect of it's use. It might end up being a payment system for for extremely large online transactions, like purchasing companies - or as I read recently, for purchasing a Stradivarius violin (estimated at + 60 million dollars).

I for one am committed to the idea. The white paper was/is a stroke of genius. Once I read it (even with my little understanding of computer science) I knew Bitcoin was something far bigger than swings up and down on an exchange. Patience is key. I've learned that painfully well during the times of the doldrums.

[lynn_402]

Bitcoin has failed as a currency. It is a store of value, a commodity like gold. How many people would like to use gold strictly as currency? After 4 and a half years, Satoshi Nakamoto's vision has been turned upside down; The BTC experiment is a failure. Without a strong government support, you can't have a secure, reliably and stable currency.

I know I would, and I'm sure most people here too, at least those who believe that the governments threatment of money is irrational.
And not many people would use gold as currency, because it is impractical. Paying with Bitcoin is ridiculously easy for both party, and actually has advantages over fiat (less fees, no chargeback, faster transfer).

I believe you're mistaken in saying that governments adds security, reliability and stability to a currency. Artificial inflation enpoverish everyone, and I'm sure many people want to get out of that flawed system.

[minerpart]

They do not like volatility in their invesstment portfolio.

Forgetting the spelling, what on Earth are you on about? Have you done any research into the methodologies of high performance Funds?

Institutions often put a percentage of their money into high-risk high-gain propositions. It is actually a central strategy and allows for significant profits by risking just a small percentage of the fund. And most do well by taking the calculated risks that allow them to out-perform the general market (Top 100 etc). Fund managing is all about managing high risk and low risk strategies in combination. High volatility in a deep market means there is potential for big gains and big investors love those two things in combination. However there needs to be strong and robust methods of exchange before big bucks will come in. They need to know they can exit a large position at market price with low levels of slippage and that sort of exchange situation/market depth does not exist. It needs to be built and it will be through 2014.   

[Ibian]

Yeah, a bit of code that turned into billions is a failure. Fuck off op. Seriously, get the hell out of here.

[Cyberlight]

It couldn't sustain at 1000 or 2000 dollars, you will get a very unstable store of value.
Bitcoin could be worth nothing, or a lot of money, there is no middle ground.

No institutional money ? obvious troll is obvious.

[suchnoob]

Bitcoin could be worth nothing, or a lot of money, there is no middle ground.

This.

[lynn_402]

Bitcoin could be worth nothing, or a lot of money, there is no middle ground.

Why not? Why couldn't it remain a niche crypto-libertarian currency whose value oscilliates between 300-600$ ?
Although I'm quite sure it has what it takes to be worth more.

[zzojar]

@ jamesc760,
yet you still have a bitcoin account yourself, and you still are active in bitcointalk threads ... so I think you are a liar. If you REALLY believed what you wrote, then you would get out now while you can and stop wasting your time here.

[Cyberlight]

Bitcoin could be worth nothing, or a lot of money, there is no middle ground.

Why not? Why couldn't it remain a niche crypto-libertarian currency whose value oscilliates between 300-600$ ?
Although I'm quite sure it has what it takes to be worth more.

It couldn't sustain at 1000 or 2000 dollars, you will get a very unstable store of value.

Therefore, too low market cap makes it easily to manipulate.

[lynn_402]

Therefore, too low market cap makes it easily to manipulate.

That would be the case only if most Bitcoin would stay in the wallets of a few persons, but if the price stays that way for a long time, surely they will sell and there will be a better distribution. Plus, there's the few thousands of new coins produced everyday that contribute to a better distribution therefore to a harder to manipulate market.

[pandher]

OP is right, stop being fanboys with riches struck eyes. Have a taste of reality. The people who gained profit are out now giving you worthless bags

[lynn_402]

OP is right, stop being fanboys with riches struck eyes. Have a taste of reality. The people who gained profit are out now giving you worthless bags

These persons got out between 800$ and 1200$, not at 400$
What we are at now, is a new wave of investors plus the older investors who truly believe in bitcoin and will sell only when it's worth way more than now. Expect a trend reversal right after next bottom

[vpitcher07]

 They will cash out if BTC goes up to $1000 level, if they have not cashed out yet. After cashing out, they will never come back. Once bitten, twice shy.

This is the only thing I agree with in OP's argument. We will see very very hard resistance in the $1,000 range if it ever reaches that again. Those who bought at 1k are going to be cashing in at once and we will see a crash back down again.

[spazzdla]

 They will cash out if BTC goes up to $1000 level, if they have not cashed out yet. After cashing out, they will never come back. Once bitten, twice shy.

This is the only thing I agree with in OP's argument. We will see very very hard resistance in the $1,000 range if it ever reaches that again. Those who bought at 1k are going to be cashing in at once and we will see a crash back down again.

Don't assume things, it's dangerous.

IMO we will see the prices fall hard this/next month due to china, it will attract buyers, all of the weak hands will be gone...

[vpitcher07]

 They will cash out if BTC goes up to $1000 level, if they have not cashed out yet. After cashing out, they will never come back. Once bitten, twice shy.

This is the only thing I agree with in OP's argument. We will see very very hard resistance in the $1,000 range if it ever reaches that again. Those who bought at 1k are going to be cashing in at once and we will see a crash back down again.

Don't assume things, it's dangerous.

IMO we will see the prices fall hard this/next month due to china, it will attract buyers, all of the weak hands will be gone...

I'm trying to be realistic and logical. I'm not assuming but I"m making a pretty educated guess as to what is going to happen. There are probably a lot of people who bought in the 1k range and are probably looking for a quick out. Trust me, I hope i'm wrong. But it makes a lot of sense for there to be a strong resistance at 1,000.

[passionsurf]

Too many people bought in during the China-induced bubble at the end of last year. They have seen the value of their bitcoins plummet. Some people have lost their life savings. They will cash out if BTC goes up to $1000 level, if they have not cashed out yet. After cashing out, they will never come back. Once bitten, twice shy.

Wait a minute here. For every one person that got screwed and "lost their life savings" there are probably 1000 people who have never even heard of bitcoin. Most people I talk to have never heard of bitcoin, in spite of all the press lately. There is still tons of potential buyers/investors out their. Bitcoin has only JUST begun.

[mgio]

Wait, weren't you the guy that said: "BTC will rise to $2000 by end of March 2014." ?

[Torque]

Wait, weren't you the guy that said: "BTC will rise to $2000 by end of March 2014." ?

Yeah, he was.  

Since my last prediction went so well , I am going to make another "most accurate" prediction ever:

BTC will rise to $2000 by end of March 2014.
….
Wow, censorship and negativity abound here today!!!

Do all specualtion have to be based on some tehcnical mumbo jumbo that explains nothing and predicts nothing?

Lighten up, folks!

Let's be positive, be merry and have fun. This is the end of 2013, let's await the arrival of 2014 with positive attitude and mental acuity. Let's get rid of this negative poisonous toxin you carry in you. Let IT go!!! Let us surround btc with positive energy and hope and pray that btc will rocket up!!!

….
I was wrong before but I believe I'm right this time. Let me explain:

Btc's fundamentals are strong (I have to throw in technical mumbo jumbo here, you know),
Rise in value in anticipation of overstock.com's adoption of bitcoins staring in July'2014,
Twinklevosses ETF will be approved, sooner than expected,
Wallstreet's flood gates will be opened soon afterwards or even before (insider info, you know),
China Syndrome has been effectlvely factored in already,
March'2014 marks the 6months time since the dramatic increase in hashrate and difficulty, which, some believe, causes dramatic effect on btc price (This is a tough one, there's a school of thought that says it has no, zero, nada, effect; and another school that says otherwise)

 

[zimmah]

Get over it. BTC price will never go up to $10000 or $5000. Not even $2000. Here's why.

Quoted for future reference.

You'll look stupid in less then 6 months.

[rohnearner]

Get over it. BTC price will never go up to $10000 or $5000. Not even $2000. Here's why.

Quoted for future reference.

You'll look stupid in less then 6 months.

I'm hoping for reverse trend in upcoming months too..! lets see if we can achieve some new heights..! 

[dyland]

Get over it. BTC price will never go up to $10000 or $5000. Not even $2000. Here's why.

Quoted for future reference.

You'll look stupid in less then 6 months.

I'm hoping for reverse trend in upcoming months too..! lets see if we can achieve some new heights..! 

This is going to sound prick-ish, but I mean it humorously:

"You can hope in one hand and shit in the other, and see which one fills up faster" 

[dyland]

Get over it. BTC price will never go up to $10000 or $5000. Not even $2000. Here's why.

Quoted for future reference.

You'll look stupid in less then 6 months.

I'm hoping for reverse trend in upcoming months too..! lets see if we can achieve some new heights..!  

This is going to sound prick-ish, but I mean it humorously:

"You can hope in one hand and shit in the other, and see which one fills up faster"  

Only time will tell, I 'm not concerned about this crash.!

Also unconcerned in the long-term.

[edok]

Question to all the longterm bears, why are you here? If you're down on BTC longterm then sell and go on your merry way. Why do you feel the need to create FUD unless you're trying to buy at a lower price?

[semaforo]

  Oh no! Bitcoin has failed!

   Tell that to anyone who has got hit by credit card fraud. Tell that to the people who lost their savings in the bail-in in Cyprus. Tell that to the Argentines whose national currency has devalued 50% in the last 4 years. Tell that to the Phillipino and African migrants whose family's whole income back home is $500 a month, reduced by 8% by western union fees and bad exchange rate. Tell that to the business owners who went out of business because of a 1% difference in margin- while their margin was changed by 2% because of Visa and Mastercard's fraud budget. Tell it to the gold bugs. Tell it to the people making their living on silk road and the dozens of silk road spinoffs. Tell it to the Iranians who are reaching markets with their products they never could before. Tell it to the people who realize that issuing a people's currency is the best way to control a people.

   While I think everyone is welcome in the forum, just put your money where your mouth is and sell your coins to someone who has a slight understanding of human nature and the global economy. Oh, you probably don't have any coins to sell do you? You're probably writing this out of the hope that bitcoin will fail to reduce the pain you feel at not having participated in the movement a couple years ago...


   As I understand it posts like these are a part of every capitulation. We just need to see prices stabilize to the point where all of the people on the sidelines decide they don't want to miss the boat again. There are hordes of people waiting to see if it's going to crash, and as understanding of bitcoin spreads along with smartphones, I think we will see in retrospect that we are not even in the steep part of the "s" curve yet.


  

[semaforo]

Question to all the longterm bears, why are you here? If you're down on BTC longterm then sell and go on your merry way. Why do you feel the need to create FUD unless you're trying to buy at a lower price?

   Maybe you hit the nail on the head right there... trying to drive down price so they can get more coins before the next rally.

[SportsBet]

Did you guys even watch the CoinSummit?

[y3804]

Did you guys even watch the CoinSummit?

Please explain what I've missed

[SportsBet]

Did you guys even watch the CoinSummit?

Please explain what I've missed

Check it out here -> http://www.youtube.com/user/coinsummit

Many things from Marc Andreesen making fun of old rich white guys (spoiler alert)
trough Chamath Palihapitiya admitting he has discussed it with Zuckerberg
to a large group of quality investors from Ribbit/Lightspeed/Andreesen Horowitz and the state of bitcoin analysis by CoinDesk where they mention 162mln VC funding so far, 75mil of which since the start of 2014.

Makes some of the pple in this thread look like emotional bag holders instead of reasonable men.

[Cassius]

 Oh no! Bitcoin has failed!

   Tell that to anyone who has got hit by credit card fraud. Tell that to the people who lost their savings in the bail-in in Cyprus. Tell that to the Argentines whose national currency has devalued 50% in the last 4 years. Tell that to the Phillipino and African migrants whose family's whole income back home is $500 a month, reduced by 8% by western union fees and bad exchange rate. Tell that to the business owners who went out of business because of a 1% difference in margin- while their margin was changed by 2% because of Visa and Mastercard's fraud budget. Tell it to the gold bugs. Tell it to the people making their living on silk road and the dozens of silk road spinoffs. Tell it to the Iranians who are reaching markets with their products they never could before. Tell it to the people who realize that issuing a people's currency is the best way to control a people.

   While I think everyone is welcome in the forum, just put your money where your mouth is and sell your coins to someone who has a slight understanding of human nature and the global economy. Oh, you probably don't have any coins to sell do you? You're probably writing this out of the hope that bitcoin will fail to reduce the pain you feel at not having participated in the movement a couple years ago...


   As I understand it posts like these are a part of every capitulation. We just need to see prices stabilize to the point where all of the people on the sidelines decide they don't want to miss the boat again. There are hordes of people waiting to see if it's going to crash, and as understanding of bitcoin spreads along with smartphones, I think we will see in retrospect that we are not even in the steep part of the "s" curve yet.


  

Dude. This. Except for the s-curve bit, which seems likely but I haven't figured for certain yet.

[rogerwilco]

Wait, weren't you the guy that said: "BTC will rise to $2000 by end of March 2014." ?

Yes. "If I post this maybe the opposite will happen" is the whole point of making the thread. People need to lighten up.

[chufchuf]

Get over it. BTC price will never go up to $10000 or $5000. Not even $2000. Here's why.

Institutional Investers are not coming. They are risk-averse as a group. They do not like volatility in their invesstment portfolio. They prize stability most of all. Bitcoin is a bit too volatile for their taste. They are not going to put their money in something that loses 60% of its value overnight.

Too many people bought in during the China-induced bubble at the end of last year. They have seen the value of their bitcoins plummet. Some people have lost their life savings. They will cash out if BTC goes up to $1000 level, if they have not cashed out yet. After cashing out, they will never come back. Once bitten, twice shy.

Bitcoin has failed as a currency. It is a store of value, a commodity like gold. How many people would like to use gold strictly as currency? After 4 and a half years, Satoshi Nakamoto's vision has been turned upside down; The BTC experiment is a failure. Without a strong government support, you can't have a secure, reliably and stable currency.

Bitcoin will continue its meandering ways like this forever or until its demise. There is no S-Curve. There is no magic ride to Million dollar trend line. This is it, folks.

Bitcoin is so superior to money in the bank only an idiot can't see this.

[jamesc760]

I used to be bullish, until very recently. MtGOX imploding and China banning changed my mind completely. If the original and the biggest btc exchange can fail, who else can you put your trust? I didn't put any money or btc into MtGOX myself but I know others who have. If China and India can ban bitcoins, thus removing half of the world's population from bitcoins, where and how could "To Da Moon" adoption and growth come from? The Western government can just as easily ban bitcoins and/or regulate it death. The US IRS announcement is an opening salvo.

The last bubble, and it WAS a bubble, in the late 2013, came solely from the China buying frenzy. With China and India effectively out of the game, there's no more fuel left for the btc rocket. The last few months, you can feel the oxygen getting sucked out of the rocket. Bitcoin is running on fumes, just look at the exchange's volume over the past few months. Nobody wants to buy. Not at $600, not at $500. I am not sure if $400-450 is attractive price. There seems to be a support at the level currently, but how long will it stand?

We need a new and trustable exchange in the US. I understand that NYC has started accepting applications for bitcoin exchanges; however, it will take months, if not years before new exchanges start working. We need new crop of buyers, in the scale of Chinese, but there's none to be found. Europeans and Americans are still trying to recover from the "Great Recession." India and Russia is out. Who's going to replace the Chinese buyers?

[bitcoinsrus]

I used to be bullish, until very recently. MtGOX imploding and China banning changed my mind completely. If the original and the biggest btc exchange can fail, who else can you put your trust? I didn't put any money or btc into MtGOX myself but I know others who have. If China and India can ban bitcoins, thus removing half of the world's population from bitcoins, where and how could "To Da Moon" adoption and growth come from? The Western government can just as easily ban bitcoins and/or regulate it death. The US IRS announcement is an opening salvo.

The last bubble, and it WAS a bubble, in the late 2013, came solely from the China buying frenzy. With China and India effectively out of the game, there's no more fuel left for the btc rocket. The last few months, you can feel the oxygen getting sucked out of the rocket. Bitcoin is running on fumes, just look at the exchange's volume over the past few months. Nobody wants to buy. Not at $600, not at $500. I am not sure if $400-450 is attractive price. There seems to be a support at the level currently, but how long will it stand?

We need a new and trustable exchange in the US. I understand that NYC has started accepting applications for bitcoin exchanges; however, it will take months, if not years before new exchanges start working. We need new crop of buyers, in the scale of Chinese, but there's none to be found. Europeans and Americans are still trying to recover from the "Great Recession." India and Russia is out. Who's going to replace the Chinese buyers?

If they even acknowledge a ban on it, won't people want to use it more in those areas?  Eventually some type of virtual currency might make it to those countries and some people would go into bitcoin?

[gentlemand]

I used to be bullish, until very recently. MtGOX imploding and China banning changed my mind completely. If the original and the biggest btc exchange can fail, who else can you put your trust? I didn't put any money or btc into MtGOX myself but I know others who have. If China and India can ban bitcoins, thus removing half of the world's population from bitcoins, where and how could "To Da Moon" adoption and growth come from? The Western government can just as easily ban bitcoins and/or regulate it death. The US IRS announcement is an opening salvo.

The last bubble, and it WAS a bubble, in the late 2013, came solely from the China buying frenzy. With China and India effectively out of the game, there's no more fuel left for the btc rocket. The last few months, you can feel the oxygen getting sucked out of the rocket. Bitcoin is running on fumes, just look at the exchange's volume over the past few months. Nobody wants to buy. Not at $600, not at $500. I am not sure if $400-450 is attractive price. There seems to be a support at the level currently, but how long will it stand?

We need a new and trustable exchange in the US. I understand that NYC has started accepting applications for bitcoin exchanges; however, it will take months, if not years before new exchanges start working. We need new crop of buyers, in the scale of Chinese, but there's none to be found. Europeans and Americans are still trying to recover from the "Great Recession." India and Russia is out. Who's going to replace the Chinese buyers?

Bitcoin got to a point where its market cap is billions and governments are paying attention around the world on the back of an infrastructure almost entirely run by children and scum and its user experience was like corrupted linux on pirated tranquilisers.

You're losing hope just as a tidal wave of reputable businesses, top notch brains and usable technologies are about to start pouring in? It's been sub amateur hour so far. The foot hasn't even reached the clutch to drop it yet.

[bclcjunkie]

you know what "land grabbing" term means right? so it's simple.. bitcoin doesn't need institutional investors who don't have balls big enough to withstand volatility and enjoy fruits of labor later on.. they have shareholders, private hands to answer to so it's natural they like to play safe....there are turtle stocks that pay dividends for that... anyway these investors can wait all they want until bitcoin goes through this mess to become mature, stable and widely accepted. But by then just like them there'll be other investors flocking in sending value of bitcoin even higher and then the investors who waited on sidelines would realize how much opportunity they've lost to buy in when this disruptive technology was still cheap back then... most of these old fashioned financial investors will be left when other smart investors are getting in now to reap the long term benefits of bitcoin... in layman's terms imagine a city in a remote area (no one thought las vegas would become a tourist spot right) that is about to be developed so that city is having sales now land is being sold at rock bottom prices so you buy yourself a nice spot there to build a restaurant to serve that huge crowd later on... see the numbers in your head? especially if that spot cost you next to nothing...
 so based on your thinking you seem to have little or no imagination in terms of how far bitcoin is poised to go...

let me give you another example... think of bitcoin as tcp/ip in 80s... now look at the ecosystem built around it...
 there's just so much room left for bitcoin to be used other than just cryptocurrency, without a shadow of doubt i believe once smart cookies from financial houses realize how they can utilize bitcoin's rock solid infrastructure to save costs, increase productivity and come up with numerous financial tools there'll be a huge paradigm shift... think of contracts, inheritance with 0 lawyer fees and etc... you follow me so far? and if you think bitcoin will never hit 100k let me give you a shocker... how sure are you USD won't lose its petrodollar status and drag the rest of the world with it for currency reset? we're already seeing this with Ukraine game right? you can also see how fed tapering is affecting southeast asian countries that were pumped due to all that binge printing by fed right? look at MYR, IDR and etc... the current fiat system itself is one big fucking ponzi scheme.... in the end the only currencies that will survive are of those countries who will have vast natural resources to back them up and 0 debt... and here's the best part by the time when USD suffers its demise and throw everyone into hyperinflation, bitcoin will just sit on top of all these and skyrocket in its value as a superhighway for forex, SWIFT wires, small micropayment system and etc..

[greenlion]

OP does not comprehend the concept of "hedging" and basically invented his own fairy tale caricature of what he believes an institutional investor to be in order to improvise some FUD, end of story.

[twiifm]

OP does not comprehend the concept of "hedging" and basically invented his own fairy tale caricature of what he believes an institutional investor to be in order to improvise some FUD, end of story.

How do you hedge BTC?  There's no options market on it

[aminorex]

BTC is the hedge.

There are various derivative markets.  MPEX does options.  796.com does futures, possibly with options.  Various swaps dealers offer BTC swaps.

[greenlion]

OP does not comprehend the concept of "hedging" and basically invented his own fairy tale caricature of what he believes an institutional investor to be in order to improvise some FUD, end of story.

How do you hedge BTC?  There's no options market on it

The existence of an options market within a particular asset is not what hedging as a investment principle means.

[twiifm]

OP does not comprehend the concept of "hedging" and basically invented his own fairy tale caricature of what he believes an institutional investor to be in order to improvise some FUD, end of story.

How do you hedge BTC?  There's no options market on it

The existence of an options market within a particular asset is not what hedging as a investment principle means.

I know what hedging means.  But options are the easiest tool for hedging.

My question remains how do you hedge a BTC position?  Like if I bought BTC today for $450.  How do I hedge against a drop to $400?

[greenlion]

OP does not comprehend the concept of "hedging" and basically invented his own fairy tale caricature of what he believes an institutional investor to be in order to improvise some FUD, end of story.

How do you hedge BTC?  There's no options market on it

The existence of an options market within a particular asset is not what hedging as a investment principle means.

I know what hedging means.  But options are the easiest tool for hedging.

My question remains how do you hedge a BTC position?  Like if I bought BTC today for $450.  How do I hedge against a drop to $400?

You can short on Bitfinex.

[aminorex]

My question remains how do you hedge a BTC position?  Like if I bought BTC today for $450.  How do I hedge against a drop to $400?

Sell a risk-reversal OTC.

[twiifm]

My question remains how do you hedge a BTC position?  Like if I bought BTC today for $450.  How do I hedge against a drop to $400?

Sell a risk-reversal OTC.

Thanks for the reply.  Seems too much trouble