To have kids or not to? Your opinion from economy perspective

[libert19]

Could we get this thread going again? Pretty please

BTW, TIL, how to post gifs; and apparently it's same as posting images, I thought it would be a rocket science.

[Joeboy]

I know with the way things are in some countries having kids is the last thing some persons will think of right now which is very bad, because according to our creator he said in his holy book that children are gift from him, so now my question is those guys who are seeing having kids as something that is not necessary, is it that are refusing a gift from their creator?

You're right children is a gift from God, but it's not a must that everyone must have kid. If you feel like not having kid due to one reason or the other it's fine and for you to make such decision does not necessarily mean that you're refusing what God said, because kids is supposed to be well trained but nowadays I see people abusing kids, thier mate will be in school learning why they are on the road hugging pure water and majority has died due to car accident all in the name of struggling to survive the hardship. anyone who does not have all it takes to train up a kid should stay clear from having kids instead of bringing them into the world for them to suffer.

I don't agree with you in that...It is this believe of calling children gift from God, that has encourage so many folks to be careless about the way they bring children into the world without thinking through the responsibilities that it would take to cater for the children... Children aren't gifts, they are simply responsibilities which are produced from the sexual intercourse of folks from opposite sexes....Most folks fail to understand that when children are born, it isn't there believe or supposed superstition that feeds, educate and clothe them, it is the parent effort and preparedness that is able to raise and take care of the child properly...

[bakasabo]

Could we get this thread going again? Pretty please

We can, but we will again end on "children are expensive", "responsibility", "it is not for me and I dont want society to decide what should I have or dont have", "children limit freedom" or go circles. We wont get new ideas here. Those who already have children will vote for having children. For me it was a deliberate choice to have children. However, to be really honest, before having children, I was jealous to those people who have children, because I also wanted to have experience they have. I always remember my childhood with warm. I wish I could experience that period once again, but through prism of a having a child, I managed to live partly that moment once again, but from different angle. You cant imagine level of nostalgia I have when I am buying toys. To be honest one more time, some of purchased toys I have done based on my own desire, not on childs favor or wish.

[xandry]

I was just surfing r/antinatalism and came across this video, which gives arguments on this statement that I have seen quite a few times in this thread and that is, 'children being a gift from god'. 

Video:. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fVtASnWX9MQ

Arguments given looked reasonable to me, watch and discuss if you may.

There are just a lot of logical counter-questions, but the problem is that believers don't need logic and reasonable arguments to believe in God. They can easily answer all these questions with something like "it's God's will" or "if that's what's happening, then it's necessary."

I now have two daughters and one son and they are all a joy.. I don't think it's a problem, as God already controls our sustenance.

What about suicide? Is God controlling him too? You know, people commit suicide sometimes, and they often have parents.

[alastantiger]

What title says,

unless one is well off himself one should not be having kids, this is my opinion.

What about you?

Same here, I think having children comes with a serious responsibility, and part of that responsibility is being able to take care of yourself first, you know, financially, emotionally, and mentally. If someone is struggling to meet their own basic needs, it becomes much harder to provide stability, care, and opportunities for another human being. While money isn’t the only factor in raising a child, a certain level of readiness and self-sufficiency matters alot ,so having kids should be a deliberate decision based on capacity, not just pressure or expectation but then again thats just my opinion

[Bitcoin.com97]

What title says,

unless one is well off himself one should not be having kids, this is my opinion.

What about you?

Having kids comes with a while a lot , but I think with what you are earning, if you can take good care of yourself, taking care of one shouldn’t be an issue, but I don’t advise having many when you are financially stable ,kids are expensive but if you looking at the economy you may end up getting old full of regret, kids are important in ones lives , if you don’t have enough money to have many kids , then just have one and be good , my opinion sha

[Berry2d]

What title says,

unless one is well off himself one should not be having kids, this is my opinion.

What about you?

Same here, I think having children comes with a serious responsibility, and part of that responsibility is being able to take care of yourself first, you know, financially, emotionally, and mentally. If someone is struggling to meet their own basic needs, it becomes much harder to provide stability, care, and opportunities for another human being. While money isn’t the only factor in raising a child, a certain level of readiness and self-sufficiency matters alot ,so having kids should be a deliberate decision based on capacity, not just pressure or expectation but then again thats just my opinion

Considering money as the most important factor responsible for having and raising children at times is the mistake we make that constantly hunts especially when it looks as if the time is late. Children i know are blessing from god and the gift of God adds know sorrow in the life of any man, i know money is important in children's good up bringing but we should not use that as a reason to justify our actions for not having any when the time is right or even consider chasing wealth of family because family is the first in the life of everyone

[Roseline492]

Same here, I think having children comes with a serious responsibility, and part of that responsibility is being able to take care of yourself first, you know, financially, emotionally, and mentally. If someone is struggling to meet their own basic needs, it becomes much harder to provide stability, care, and opportunities for another human being. While money isn’t the only factor in raising a child, a certain level of readiness and self-sufficiency matters alot ,so having kids should be a deliberate decision based on capacity, not just pressure or expectation but then again thats just my opinion

The taking care off is very important because is how you would no that you are ready to start having babies because you need finance in as much as you need babies, in the market now babies things are becoming expensive than the items of an adults and is compulsory that you will buy all the things the baby will need and there are some they would only use ones and trash away so you would be ready to replace and refill every moment it finishes so actually there is a lot of money involves but however with income that is very regular even if the amount is not as supposed for a family it can be managed and raised a family.

[libert19]

...Children i know are blessing from god and the gift of God adds know sorrow in the life of any man, i know money is important in children's good up bringing but we should not use that as a reason to justify our actions for not having any when the time is right or even consider chasing wealth of family because family is the first in the life of everyone

Sheer ignorance! 2/3 days ago, there was this double murder plus suicide (+ pets were murdered as well) in Australia, because parents had two kids with severe Autism and couldn't take care for 'em. Look at this story: https://youtu.be/Z6GH6z7k73E

IMO, people should look at worst case scenario before they have kids, rather than, being optimistically deluded (if this is correct wording) that, this won't happen to 'em.

Children i know are blessing from god and the gift of God adds know sorrow in the life of any man

I must quote this again to emphasize on it, because this statement is that much comical.

[Fortify]

What title says,

unless one is well off himself one should not be having kids, this is my opinion.

What about you?

For many people having kids is not necessarily about economics but more about the basic urge of many people to want to reproduce - it's an inherent part of life. If people actually over thought having kids and whether they could afford them, we would probably end up seeing catastrophic population declines. At present most of the "developed world" are facing such declines, but this is counteracted but many poorer countries having far too many children at an often unsustainable rate. You should really have the means to support kids in the basic ways - food, clothes, shelter and hopefully later on education. Sometimes the state will assist you in this, but that is a privilege.

[Versatile_choice]

Children i know are blessing from god and the gift of God adds know sorrow in the life of any man, i know money is important in children's good up bringing but we should not use that as a reason to justify our actions for not having any when the time is right or even consider chasing wealth of family because family is the first in the life of everyone

No one is denying the fact that children is a free gift from nature, and for the fact that it is stated doesn't mean that you should go and have kid's even though you can't take good care of them because it makes no sense for one to bring up kid's knowing fully well that you don't have all it takes to take good care of them. So if you ask me I would say that having kids is just a matter of choice forget about being old enough to have kids or whatever if I see that my financial status is not good enough for me to have more responsibility then I would rather forget about it than bringing them here to experience hardship.

[Bryan jessy]

Children brings blessings to their parents, and yes the choice is ours to decide whether to have kids or not, before both spouses comes together to agree to be one they need to be prepared financially and in otherwise to avoid issues later in their marriage. I have encountered some mature men old enough to have family but they are still single, I confronted a few numbers of some of these men on why they're still not married yet out of curiosity, and they gave the same answers which is: "I need to make money to be able to take care of my family" and some who already have the money is looking for a responsible lady to be an amazing mother to he's kids.
Also the numbers of kids to have is important, it is necessary to give birth to the number of kids and can provide for.

[Jateng]

I don't agree with you in that...It is this believe of calling children gift from God, that has encourage so many folks to be careless about the way they bring children into the world without thinking through the responsibilities that it would take to cater for the children... Children aren't gifts, they are simply responsibilities which are produced from the sexual intercourse of folks from opposite sexes....Most folks fail to understand that when children are born, it isn't there believe or supposed superstition that feeds, educate and clothe them, it is the parent effort and preparedness that is able to raise and take care of the child properly...

There is no doubt about it a child comes into the world with the permission of Allah Almighty but its good upbringing is the responsibility of the parents. many such cases where despite not having financial wealth they bring 10 children into the world and do not give them education for this world and the hereafter. Money despite not having much they destroy the life of the child born due to their sexual relations. if you have the courage or you are financially strong you can have more children otherwise do not bring this child into the world and put him in trouble.

[libert19]

...

There is no doubt about it a child comes into the world with the permission of Allah Almighty...

Unless you have personal experience of the same (i.e, getting permission from Allah before coming here), it's just another hearsay without substance.

Personally, I believe in science on how babies are made!

[Emjay24]

I was just surfing r/antinatalism and came across this video, which gives arguments on this statement that I have seen quite a few times in this thread and that is, 'children being a gift from god'.  

Video:. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fVtASnWX9MQ

Arguments given looked reasonable to me, watch and discuss if you may.

Those are just arguments that uses God as a reference object.
God only gave humans the ability to make babies and doesn't control how they use such abilities. Those are abilities which includes that a fertile sperm from a man and a fertile egg from a lady interacting could produce a baby. God doesn't decide when you use those abilities or how you use them, nature only plays out.

God also gave people ability to use their brains and know if it is the right time to welcome babies and if they are really prepared for it both economically, psychologically and physically. Most couples welcoming babies when they are not prepared are only abusing those babies. God has no hand in it, humans are only behaving irrationally and using God as proxy to avoid taking proper responsibility of their own shortcomings.

[Hanadawa]

I think this is one of the most plausible arguments so far. I agree with you. Religious people believe that everything that happens in this world is God's will. But on the other hand, God gave humans reason as creatures with free will to determine their own destiny. I believe God created the law of cause and effect because that's how nature works. I agree that babies are a gift from God. But there is a great responsibility when you receive that "gift." In the past, people could care for and raise many children because there wasn't much need, and the economy wasn't like it is now. Today, the world has become a global market, and what happens in other countries can have an impact on our country. Inflation and the modern financial system have made it difficult for people to even provide for themselves. I personally agree that in this era, having many children without good financial support will only create children who lack nutrition, education, and whose desires are unfulfilled. We can see a stark contrast between children in poor countries and children in countries with better public facilities. And that's also what happens between children from wealthy families and children born, or perhaps born into, poor families. I believe structural poverty stems from poor parents who believe children are a blessing and that having many will bring abundant blessings.

[Unknown Op]

I don't agree with you in that...It is this believe of calling children gift from God, that has encourage so many folks to be careless about the way they bring children into the world without thinking through the responsibilities that it would take to cater for the children... Children aren't gifts, they are simply responsibilities which are produced from the sexual intercourse of folks from opposite sexes....Most folks fail to understand that when children are born, it isn't there believe or supposed superstition that feeds, educate and clothe them, it is the parent effort and preparedness that is able to raise and take care of the child properly...

There is no doubt about it a child comes into the world with the permission of Allah Almighty but its good upbringing is the responsibility of the parents. many such cases where despite not having financial wealth they bring 10 children into the world and do not give them education for this world and the hereafter. Money despite not having much they destroy the life of the child born due to their sexual relations. if you have the courage or you are financially strong you can have more children otherwise do not bring this child into the world and put him in trouble.

If you have kids then these will grow in the years and you will get huge returns from that . The people who have no kids they are living their life in depression because they have nobody to they can talk and can interact with the family and they are alone which is dangerous for these kinds of people. Children will work after a few years when they will be able to work and we will be free to earn and children will take control of house and they will take all responsibility of family. Stupid people think that kids are debut but actually it is credit and you will get returns after  20 years when you will be old and you can't do work. If you are able to do work in old age you are lucky but most of old people are not able to do work for meal.

[libert19]

I believe God created the law of cause and effect because that's how nature works.

I believe law of cause and effect only applies to humans and not to whole nature; probably because, humans have intellect, with which they can judge the right and wrong (don't hold onto me on any of this though).

In the past, people could care for and raise many children because there wasn't much need, and the economy wasn't like it is now.

I hear stories from my mother and it was all same, it's just people used to pump out as many as kids they can without a second thought back then, so there used to be more kids — and these kids would be sent to work as soon as they reach 'workable' age, and women married off as soon as they reach marital age, iirc my mother's sister was married off at 15.

I believe structural poverty stems from poor parents who believe children are a blessing and that having many will bring abundant blessings.

That's correct. My mother till this day believes, more children = more abundance.

If you have kids then these will grow in the years and you will get huge returns from that .

Ah! Good old investment.

Children will work after a few years when they will be able to work and we will be free to earn and children will take control of house and they will take all responsibility of family.

I felt disgust reading this — raise children for their sake, not for yours.

Stupid people think that kids are debut but actually it is credit and you will get returns after  20 years when you will be old and you can't do work.

To think kids in terms of debit/credit, is stupidity of a highest order, and I really wish these people would stop producing kids.

[Emjay24]

If you have kids then these will grow in the years and you will get huge returns from that . The people who have no kids they are living their life in depression because they have nobody to they can talk and can interact with the family and they are alone which is dangerous for these kinds of people. Children will work after a few years when they will be able to work and we will be free to earn and children will take control of house and they will take all responsibility of family. Stupid people think that kids are debut but actually it is credit and you will get returns after  20 years when you will be old and you can't do work. If you are able to do work in old age you are lucky but most of old people are not able to do work for meal.

You sound to me like someone who carelessly believes in quantity over quality. Do you even stop for once and ask yourself about the quality of life these children are given when they are birthed to parents who cannot take care of them?
I could remember a teacher in high school who couldn't even eat properly or afford good things for himself, yet he was still birthing children with this same stupid mindset and I see his wretched looking children almost everyday.

Do you know the extent of abuse these children face on the streets because they had poor foundation and no choice than to take any treatment meted out to them in order to survive and after they stabilize to some extent, parents still place their burden on them and slow their progress with "Taking control of the house" and sometimes children are made breadwinners before they can even make bread properly.

Maybe you don't know, children that are not properly catered for are easier target for crime inclusions.

People who are prepared to have kids and are unable to procreate can seek medical help or at most go for adoption. The depression part is only you trying to do some damage control on your selfish thoughts. Guess what, in my family, we're grown now and all left home and my aged parents adopted a small boy whom they interact with as the child of their old age.

I would say this once, Parents are supposed to prepare for their ageing days, they should not burden their children with it, they had all through their life to prepare for old age, so it is their fault if they try to depend on their children and a terrible mindset if they birth more children than they can carter for so that they can have more helping hands at old age.

I am not in the least saying that children shouldn't support their parents at their old age since I support mine too, but it shouldn't be a burden.

[Yeesha]

There is no doubt about it a child comes into the world with the permission of Allah Almighty but its good upbringing is the responsibility of the parents. many such cases where despite not having financial wealth they bring 10 children into the world and do not give them education for this world and the hereafter. Money despite not having much they destroy the life of the child born due to their sexual relations. if you have the courage or you are financially strong you can have more children otherwise do not bring this child into the world and put him in trouble.

You are on point, but the fact is that, if the parents gave birth to a child, and failed to give him proper upbringing, or failed to fulfil the responsibility of the child, if the child end up behaving badly the parents will be hold accountable for everything that the child does. Because Allah SWT didn't say that they should give birth to children that they don't have the capacity to take care off. Children are indeed a gift from Allah, but it is also important to prioritise their responsibility. Because their shelter, education, clothing, and everything is under your care as their parents. So, a lot of things need to be put into consideration before even thinking of having child, talkless of children.