Interesting behaviour by the "MrNata" account that led to possible account farm

[Welsh]

It just shows that neutrals are completely ineffective in most cases. Welsh is even unknowingly helping him farm merit. Instead of simply using the report function on posts he figured out that he can earn merit

I'm now aware of this. (though need to do a bit more investigating for all the accounts connected since I've just discovered this thread)

If this sort of thing is happening again in the future, you can reach out via personal message anytime so I can catch it sooner. I deal with a lot of posts / users a day and usually my focus is on those being reported so I sometimes don't notice the reporter or the user posting these sort of things as easily as those being reported.

I'll be honest, I did start to suspect some users were abusing this, hence why I posted asking users to also report the posts. (As well as the report function being the preferred method as multiple staff will see it then).

I'll probably stop providing merit to anyone posting in the thread from now on. Which, I'll be honest is a shame. Lots of users there report and post in that thread, and I like the idea of rewarding users legitimately looking to make the forum a better place. However, actually identifying users that aren't doing it purely for merit, is probably hard. So, it's probably better to not continue to merit users posting within that thread.

[Satofan44]

It just shows that neutrals are completely ineffective in most cases. Welsh is even unknowingly helping him farm merit. Instead of simply using the report function on posts he figured out that he can earn merit

I'm now aware of this. (though need to do a bit more investigating for all the accounts connected since I've just discovered this thread)

If this sort of thing is happening again in the future, you can reach out via personal message anytime so I can catch it sooner. I deal with a lot of posts / users a day and usually my focus is on those being reported so I sometimes don't notice the reporter or the user posting these sort of things as easily as those being reported.

No problem, I didn't mean anything bad by it in any case. Some senior members are less approachable in their high castle via personal messages. I am glad that you are not like them and I will take a note for the future.

However, actually identifying users that aren't doing it purely for merit, is probably hard. So, it's probably better to not continue to merit users posting within that thread.

Yes that is the unfortunate consequence of bad people ruining things. It is objectively not possible to know the true intent behind their behavior, at best we would just be guessing based on some other patterns. However, it is not worth the work. People who really want to report the things will do so even if they never receive merit for it IMHO. This is why I would like the forum to have a like button of some sort. I could acknowledge and give support for a post without contributing to their ranking up through merit or without having to post a reply. In this day and age people really love validation so such a feature would work well.

[JollyGood]

I was wondering whether I should send a PM regarding the N.O account and his activity in that thread that you have been generous with giving merits. If you follow through with not giving out merits in that thread, the number of posts being made will probably fall overall (and you will notice the usual protagonists posting there less and less until they probably disappear).

Account farmers are using varying techniques to build accounts and rank up. They are posting in local boards using online translators in order to pretend to be from other countries in the hope they can misdirect connection between accounts. Eventually, they revert to basics and their connected accounts cannot remain hidden.

I'm now aware of this. (though need to do a bit more investigating for all the accounts connected since I've just discovered this thread)

If this sort of thing is happening again in the future, you can reach out via personal message anytime so I can catch it sooner. I deal with a lot of posts / users a day and usually my focus is on those being reported so I sometimes don't notice the reporter or the user posting these sort of things as easily as those being reported.

I'll be honest, I did start to suspect some users were abusing this, hence why I posted asking users to also report the posts. (As well as the report function being the preferred method as multiple staff will see it then).

I'll probably stop providing merit to anyone posting in the thread from now on. Which, I'll be honest is a shame. Lots of users there report and post in that thread, and I like the idea of rewarding users legitimately looking to make the forum a better place. However, actually identifying users that aren't doing it purely for merit, is probably hard. So, it's probably better to not continue to merit users posting within that thread.

[Welsh]

You can always reach out to me whatever your questions or things you want to point out. I'm also open to criticism, and will generally try to at least hear you out. If that's discussions about merit or moderation. I don't want there to be a divide between the community and staff. Staff are a part of the community, and shouldn't be held any higher than anyone else. I don't think we are, but I'm stating this to just say if you feel we as staff are unapproachable especially when it might be criticism or something you might think we might take the wrong way, don't. Most staff users I know are still asking questions on how to better themselves and won't bite if approached.

Staff are nothing without the reporters, or the community holding them to a high standard when it comes to moderation work. Merit sources should be held to the same standard when it comes to merit distribution.

I was wondering whether I should send a PM regarding the N.O account and his activity in that thread that you have been generous with giving merits. If you follow through with not giving out merits in that thread, the number of posts being made will probably fall overall (and you will notice the usual protagonists posting there less and less until they probably disappear).

Yeah, I've only somewhat recently started it, but merited quite a few pages back as a sort of 'backlog'. However, I'll be much more aware of this from now on. I'll just continue to advocate for actually reporting instead. As I said, I like to encourage reporting since it hugely contributes to the forum. Plus, these sort of reports are vital since it prevents exposure to potentially unsafe links. However, I think I might need to do some investigation work of my own, which is semi linked to this. We've had a influx of accounts posting very similar topics which are the ones getting reported here. Basically, exact same sort of telltale signs, and I'm wondering if it's ALL connected.

However, proving or linking that might be a monumental task, especially with the tools I'm equipped with.

[JollyGood]

As you stated, the reporting of threads that contain scam download links is essential to protect members therefore it has to be encouraged. Unfortunately, some accounts farmers have discovered it is an easy way to get merits. With feedback not being visible in the Meta board, it helps the account farmers if the intention is to hunt for merits.

I am sure if you refrain from giving merits in that thread, the main protagonists will continue for a while as though to demonstrate their posts were not related to merit seeking but then eventually give up because they are driven by desire to rank up their accounts via merits. It will be interesting to see what happens on that thread after you stop giving merits. There are other accounts that give merits in that thread too, I wonder if they will stop.

Even tough I refer specially to the N.O account in that thread, the fact still remains none of the following accounts mention here are interested in posting in this thread to defend accusations of account farming/merit abuse (after I sent all of them a PM to inform them):

AirtelBuzz  
bitcoin_mining  
cryptoWODL  
Essential10  
Fuso.hp  
Just Common  
Lidger  
Mr Nata  
N.O
Platinumys  
Ricardo11  
synchronym  
2Pizza410000BTC

Yeah, I've only somewhat recently started it, but merited quite a few pages back as a sort of 'backlog'. However, I'll be much more aware of this from now on. I'll just continue to advocate for actually reporting instead. As I said, I like to encourage reporting since it hugely contributes to the forum. Plus, these sort of reports are vital since it prevents exposure to potentially unsafe links. However, I think I might need to do some investigation work of my own, which is semi linked to this. We've had a influx of accounts posting very similar topics which are the ones getting reported here. Basically, exact same sort of telltale signs, and I'm wondering if it's ALL connected.

However, proving or linking that might be a monumental task, especially with the tools I'm equipped with.

[Xiestar]

Even tough I refer specially to the N.O account in that thread, the fact still remains none of the following accounts mention here are interested in posting in this thread to defend accusations of account farming/merit abuse (after I sent all of them a PM to inform them):

Obviously because merit abuse doesn’t warrant a negative feedback while neutral feedback is not being considered by campaign manager.

As campaign manager once said. Find your own campaign and manage it meaning they don’t want to solve this issue for unknown reason and want to incentivize this kind of user that blatantly farming.

You will only force them to reply once they are already kicked out on their campaign. But while they are still freely enjoying the payment from this scheme I doubt they will disturb their merit syndicate operation.

That’s the sad reality. It’s a legal multi account farming. I thought we can finally bust this jerker but sadly there’s a group of big user involved on this operation.

[God Of Thunder]

Platinumys - Spinly / God Of Thunder aka Learn Bitcoin

I did not want to comment here, but for your information, this individual was removed from my campaign on October 18th. He was informed about it and asked to remove the signature and avatar, but he wants to wear it, even though he is not part of my campaign. I do not consider this kind of evidence, but I have checked the merit history, and I must admit that there is something wrong. The usernames in his merit history are familiar, and some of them no longer communicate with me because I confronted them over a year ago. Yes, I considered this and removed the person from my campaign over a week ago.

[TheirEgoAtThePeakLevel]

AirtelBuzz  
bitcoin_mining  
cryptoWODL  
Essential10  
Fuso.hp  
Just Common  
Lidger  
Mr Nata  
N.O
Platinumys  
Ricardo11  
synchronym  
2Pizza410000BTC

will the managers remove them from the current campaigns?

[JollyGood]

I have no idea, that is a decision for the campaign managers to make. The best the community can do is to tag accounts suspected of merit abuse and/or account farming but the decision whether to remove members or not is for campaign managers.

will the managers remove them from the current campaigns?

[lovesmayfamilis]

I am sure if you refrain from giving merits in that thread, the main protagonists will continue for a while as though to demonstrate their posts were not related to merit seeking but then eventually give up because they are driven by desire to rank up their accounts via merits. It will be interesting to see what happens on that thread after you stop giving merits. There are other accounts that give merits in that thread too, I wonder if they will stop.

Surprisingly, we're seeing a strange picture: either the virus scammers have changed their minds about publishing their threads, or (there's the slightest suspicion) these threads were created specifically to gain merit, which becomes even more convincing when you consider how quickly and almost daily they were detected. And now, as you said, they won't be "paid" merits, meaning there's no need to put on a show catching these viruses.

But yes, I will be a fortune-teller, and after this post, they will catch someone again .

[JollyGood]

Not a single post has been made in that thread since Welsh made it clear he was revise the way he merits posts and I posted there questioning the N.O account why he was posting in a thread to get merits yet he was not posting here to defend his actions.

Clearly, all of the accounts mentioned have decided to not post here even though they received a PM from me. If you check their post history, you will notice they have been active in making up their posts for their campaign quota in order to receive payment.

Surprisingly, we're seeing a strange picture: either the virus scammers have changed their minds about publishing their threads, or (there's the slightest suspicion) these threads were created specifically to gain merit, which becomes even more convincing when you consider how quickly and almost daily they were detected. And now, as you said, they won't be "paid" merits, meaning there's no need to put on a show catching these viruses.

But yes, I will be a fortune-teller, and after this post, they will catch someone again .

[Satofan44]

Not a single post has been made in that thread since Welsh made it clear he was revise the way he merits posts and I posted there questioning the N.O account why he was posting in a thread to get merits yet he was not posting here to defend his actions.

Clearly, all of the accounts mentioned have decided to not post here even though they received a PM from me. If you check their post history, you will notice they have been active in making up their posts for their campaign quota in order to receive payment.

Surprisingly, we're seeing a strange picture: either the virus scammers have changed their minds about publishing their threads, or (there's the slightest suspicion) these threads were created specifically to gain merit, which becomes even more convincing when you consider how quickly and almost daily they were detected. And now, as you said, they won't be "paid" merits, meaning there's no need to put on a show catching these viruses.

But yes, I will be a fortune-teller, and after this post, they will catch someone again .

This leads me to believe that they were not only merit farming, but that they have been responsible for posting some of the threads with new accounts too. Post malware, report it, earn merit. Repeat. As I've said many times before, as soon as you collectively decide to start giving negative ratings things will start changing rapidly.

Perhaps we need Default Trust political parties to get any change going.  

[JollyGood]

The thought had already crossed my mind. The account farmers could easily have had a list of scams ready by running simple searches and then creating threads using newbie accounts just to report them in the hope/anticipation of getting merits. As the thread has remained dormant after the recent publicity it received, I am sure what you implied is exactly what was happening.

This leads me to believe that they were not only merit farming, but that they have been responsible for posting some of the threads with new accounts too. Post malware, report it, earn merit. Repeat. As I've said many times before, as soon as you collectively decide to start giving negative ratings things will start changing rapidly.

Perhaps we need Default Trust political parties to get any change going.  

[lovesmayfamilis]

Not a single post has been made in that thread since Welsh made it clear he was revise the way he merits posts and I posted there questioning the N.O account why he was posting in a thread to get merits yet he was not posting here to defend his actions.

Clearly, all of the accounts mentioned have decided to not post here even though they received a PM from me. If you check their post history, you will notice they have been active in making up their posts for their campaign quota in order to receive payment.

Surprisingly, we're seeing a strange picture: either the virus scammers have changed their minds about publishing their threads, or (there's the slightest suspicion) these threads were created specifically to gain merit, which becomes even more convincing when you consider how quickly and almost daily they were detected. And now, as you said, they won't be "paid" merits, meaning there's no need to put on a show catching these viruses.

But yes, I will be a fortune-teller, and after this post, they will catch someone again .

This leads me to believe that they were not only merit farming, but that they have been responsible for posting some of the threads with new accounts too. Post malware, report it, earn merit. Repeat. As I've said many times before, as soon as you collectively decide to start giving negative ratings things will start changing rapidly.

Perhaps we need Default Trust political parties to get any change going.  

That's exactly what I meant when I wrote the post you quoted. But we can't throw around negative tags solely out of suspicion. Although, of course, we could take the time to check the accounts that allegedly brought the viruses to the forum. Perhaps they are connected in some way and were purchased for such purposes, or, moreover, belonged to these investigators. I know there are resources online where you can buy newbie forum accounts in bulk, so I don't see a problem with pre-distributing the virus and then immediately catching them. It's worth noting that two accounts from Pakistan have claimed responsibility for catching them, which further raises suspicions that the two accounts belong to the same person.

[JollyGood]

It seems as though Satofan44, yourself and I are thinking on the same lines 

It seems probable the puppeteer created/purchased newbies accounts to post the scam in the forum. They seem to then have used the farmed accounts to "report" the scam/malware threads to receive merits in the process. 

That's exactly what I meant when I wrote the post you quoted. But we can't throw around negative tags solely out of suspicion. Although, of course, we could take the time to check the accounts that allegedly brought the viruses to the forum. Perhaps they are connected in some way and were purchased for such purposes, or, moreover, belonged to these investigators. I know there are resources online where you can buy newbie forum accounts in bulk, so I don't see a problem with pre-distributing the virus and then immediately catching them. It's worth noting that two accounts from Pakistan have claimed responsibility for catching them, which further raises suspicions that the two accounts belong to the same person.

[Welsh]

Yeah, this is what I was hinting at:

However, I think I might need to do some investigation work of my own, which is semi linked to this. We've had a influx of accounts posting very similar topics which are the ones getting reported here. Basically, exact same sort of telltale signs, and I'm wondering if it's ALL connected.

However, proving or linking that might be a monumental task, especially with the tools I'm equipped with.

We've had a influx of these sort of topics recently, which were basically old accounts, very similar posting patterns, registered a few years ago (but within a certain range) posting identical sort of githubs. Ignoring the names they'd give them, there was a pattern on how they set them up.

Honestly, proving this beyond reasonable doubt it difficult hence the monumental task. However, its interesting because a lot of these topics have reduced in frequency recently also. However, they were being posted before I started to merit in that thread. I guess other users were meriting regularly before that.

I also, find it interesting that a lot of us have a similar thought process. So, either we're all very suspicious of other users or there's a definite pattern. I know that doesn't exactly mean its a full gone conclusion that this is what is happening, but definitely interesting.

I was actually building up a sort of case study where I was connecting the registration dates with the accounts that were posting these sort of topics. I don't think I would've found this potential link if I hadn't happened upon this thread though.

[ABCbits]

--snip--

This leads me to believe that they were not only merit farming, but that they have been responsible for posting some of the threads with new accounts too. Post malware, report it, earn merit. Repeat. As I've said many times before, as soon as you collectively decide to start giving negative ratings things will start changing rapidly.

Perhaps we need Default Trust political parties to get any change going.  

If your speculation is correct, it would be example of "perverse incentive" on this forum. It reminds me of Hanoi Rat Massacre in early 20th century, where some people breed rat after authority give 1 cent incentive in order to manage rat population.

[Satofan44]

--snip--

This leads me to believe that they were not only merit farming, but that they have been responsible for posting some of the threads with new accounts too. Post malware, report it, earn merit. Repeat. As I've said many times before, as soon as you collectively decide to start giving negative ratings things will start changing rapidly.

Perhaps we need Default Trust political parties to get any change going.  

If your speculation is correct, it would be example of "perverse incentive" on this forum. It reminds me of Hanoi Rat Massacre in early 20th century, where some people breed rat after authority give 1 cent incentive in order to manage rat population.

Bad people ruin everything, that is why incentives are difficult to design in a proper way. The other classic anecdote is the one about cobra snakes in India, it is mentioned on Wikipedia but in any case the Hanoi one is more legitimate. Either way it gets the point across. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive
I don't mean to be rude to Welsh in any way, but perhaps giving merit for reporting malware is bad. What instead could be done is reward frequent reporters on their constructive posts, if they have some. If they don't then don't give them anything. Something in this direction perhaps? People should report this willingly. Giving rewards is training them to expect rewards.

[Welsh]

What instead could be done is reward frequent reporters on their constructive posts, if they have some. If they don't then don't give them anything. Something in this direction perhaps? People should report this willingly. Giving rewards is training them to expect rewards.

Yeah, this might be true. However, if the rewards are purely recognition or cosmetic things I'm all for it. Merit, obviously isn't and it does tend to be fairly valuable to those that might not be able to generate it organically. This is usually fueled by signature campaigns which is a toxic cycle we seem to be in.

Reporter badges was a thing that was being discussed for a while, but I think this was avoided to prevent the forum from looking like a teenagers bedroom wall. However, I'd hope that we do come up with something to reward reporters. I sometimes send personal messages thanking reporters if they land on my radar as frequent high quality reporters, but that isn't really enough.

Reporting statistics are definitely down from peak levels, but that's not all to do with the communities attitude towards moderation or reporting, but the declining activity of the forum.

[JollyGood]

We've had a influx of these sort of topics recently, which were basically old accounts, very similar posting patterns, registered a few years ago (but within a certain range) posting identical sort of githubs. Ignoring the names they'd give them, there was a pattern on how they set them up.

Honestly, proving this beyond reasonable doubt it difficult hence the monumental task. However, its interesting because a lot of these topics have reduced in frequency recently also. However, they were being posted before I started to merit in that thread. I guess other users were meriting regularly before that.

Sometimes it is impossible to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt but there is enough circumstantial evidence to connect accounts. Whether that circumstantial evidence is enough to warrant a negative tag is a separate matter from whether it should be enough for campaign managers to take note and take action.

I also, find it interesting that a lot of us have a similar thought process. So, either we're all very suspicious of other users or there's a definite pattern. I know that doesn't exactly mean its a full gone conclusion that this is what is happening, but definitely interesting.  

I certainly do not think this is because suspicious mindsets are working out the work case scenarios. It seems that we have the same outlook on this particular matter because the evidence suggests it is very probable.

I sent PMs to every account:

Platinumys - Spinly / God Of Thunder aka Learn Bitcoin
AirtelBuzz - Rollbit / Hhampuz
bitcoin_mining - Rainbet / Hhampuz
cryptoWODL - Duelbits / Hhampuz
Essential10 - N/A
Fuso.hp - Rollbit / Hhampuz
Just Common - N/A
Lidger - Rainbet / Hhampuz
Mr Nata N/A
N.O - Rollbit / Hhampuz
Ricardo11 - Rainbet / Hhampuz
synchronym - Rainbet / Hhampuz
2Pizza410000BTC - Rainbet / Hhampuz

None of the account farmers and campaign cheats have posted here. None of the accounts have posted in that thread again to report malware posts after it was mentioned here that they were creating threads promoting scams using alt-accounts. Since then, there has been one report in that thread.

All of the accounts are continuing to post elsewhere in order to collect their campaign payments.

As I stated, sometimes concrete evidence is not required to take action. They do not want to post here to defend their names because they know (from previous threads such as this) it will open a can of worms and they get further exposed and other accounts will be linked. Though that alone might not be sufficient for some, clearly there is more these accounts that meets the eye.