Duel.com -- The first casino with 0% house edge games

[Free Market Capitalist]

You are frequently losing yourself in semantics, but it is ok. At least there is some hope that you do understand the concept of sample size in statistics, not mathematics:

No, I'm not losing myself in anything. The concepts of HE and RTP are very clear, and this forum is full of people who have some idea of the concepts but don't understand them. Several of them have been quoted in this thread.

...more accurately described as short-term results

whereas your "short-term" here undoubtedly refers to a low number of events (aka small sample size).

It doesn't matter the sample size.

lol

Great way to talk nonsense. Shall I explain it to you like you're a primary school kid? I'll repeat it again: RTP and HE are two concepts that basically express the same thing in different ways, and talking about short-term RTP is nonsense because RTP refers to large statistical samples something that neither you nor khaled0111 nor leea-1334 are going to change, no matter how much you want to twist and turn the issue.

[nemesis_incarnate]

..

A multiple account violation can’t be justify because you can’t provide any evidence that you don’t own those account connected to you while casino have.

I doubt they will just invented those connection out of nowhere just to scam 883$ while they are spending more than that with their signature campaign here.

Challenge them on Askgamblers platform which they can provide their evidence.

Or on Casino Guru, mediators there are good too.

[mv1986]

Great way to talk nonsense. Shall I explain it to you like you're a primary school kid? I'll repeat it again: RTP and HE are two concepts that basically express the same thing in different ways, and talking about short-term RTP is nonsense because RTP refers to large statistical samples something that neither you nor khaled0111 nor leea-1334 are going to change, no matter how much you want to twist and turn the issue.

You don't get the point.

When @khaled0111 writes his post, I can go about it in two ways. Either I hammer him for not using the correct terminology, or I can try to understand what he is trying to convey. He may use wrong terminology, but I don't feel particularly incentivized to lecture him about something that I could interpret as being false (like you) or see the point he is making.

There might be a difference between the actual RTP and the theoretical RTP. This difference depends on the gambler’s luck and mainly on how many bets he has placed. You are right, the more bets he places, the more the actual RTP leans toward the theoretical RTP.

False as well. Unless you want to play on words here. If the RTP is 98%, it doesn't matter if you get 300% or -50% in the short term. RTP is a mathematical concept, and what you call short-term RTP results have nothing to do with the mathematical concept.

It is not false what he is saying. Whether he should be using "actual" vs. "theoretical" or whatever, sample size is all that matters in the context that @khaled0111 is talking about

mainly on how many bets he has placed

and you won't change that.

[leea-1334]

0% house edge is not 100% actual RTP

I believe that 0% = 100% RTP in large enough sample sizes.

He is wrong. RTP and HE are two sides of the same coin. It doesn't matter the sample size.

There is such a thing as theoretical RTP and actual RTP,,, you will see this in most casino slots and live games which publish the RTP (a fixed number) and the actual RTP (which they will show for 24 hours, 7 days, and 30 days).

HE is directly linked to the theoretical RTP, but I know I am not wrong here. I always use House Edge to not avoid confusion. The term RTP itself is a theoretical value.

We can argue all we want but the facts are casinos display actual RTP, as well as the theoretical RTP. We can acknowledge these and help people understand better what is HE and RTP.

[LimPinks]

Duel is growing fast if they are already near Roobet in terms of traffic. I like the straightforward approach without fancy graphics

[mv1986]

~

There is such a thing as theoretical RTP and actual RTP,,, you will see this in most casino slots and live games which publish the RTP (a fixed number) and the actual RTP (which they will show for 24 hours, 7 days, and 30 days).

HE is directly linked to the theoretical RTP, but I know I am not wrong here. I always use House Edge to not avoid confusion. The term RTP itself is a theoretical value.

We can argue all we want but the facts are casinos display actual RTP, as well as the theoretical RTP. We can acknowledge these and help people understand better what is HE and RTP.

Well, when @Free Market Capitalist refers to the RTP term and says sample size doesn't matter, I guess he is talking about total potential profit/loss (from casino or player perspective), which, despite n --> infinity, actually still follows a random walk. True is that the average profit per round converges to the RTP. Total profit/loss in a 100% RTP setup still has its own randomness although intuitively you might think it has to be a zero sum game in the long run, but in fact it isn't. However, random walk swings in true 100% RTP setups could make the casino money, but it could as well drain the casino to bankruptcy. If this is what @Free Market Capitalist refers to, then it's correct.

I have done tons of random walk simulations in academic papers about VaR calculations for precious metal and raw material positions held by banks, and then related that to their overall risk profile. It's crazy how random walks can play out. The law of big numbers is not that trivial for someone who is not familiar with the matter, because at first it is not as intuitive as one might think.


@leea-1334 let's assume that the casino really displays what is going on, then it is correct that they can only present numbers for limited time intervals, but here is the thing:

If the "theoretical RTP" (as you call it) is 100% and the casino then provides the "actual RTP" for various time intervals, the actual RTP should fluctuate around 100%. Fluctuate more in smaller time intervals, fluctuate less in larger time intervals. But what is more important for the players, is that the RTP should at least every now and then exceed 100%. If it is truly a symmetrical game and it is claimed to come with 100% RTP, there should be time intervals when the casino says "this week the actual RTP was 105%".

Fact of the matter is that no casino would offer 100% RTP across the board with fully asymmetric games because profit/loss would be random, and businesses rather don't bet on randomness while seeking profitability.

[leea-1334]

@leea-1334 let's assume that the casino really displays what is going on, then it is correct that they can only present numbers for limited time intervals, but here is the thing:

If the "theoretical RTP" (as you call it) is 100% and the casino then provides the "actual RTP" for various time intervals, the actual RTP should fluctuate around 100%. Fluctuate more in smaller time intervals, fluctuate less in larger time intervals. But what is more important for the players, is that the RTP should at least every now and then exceed 100%. If it is truly a symmetrical game and it is claimed to come with 100% RTP, there should be time intervals when the casino says "this week the actual RTP was 105%".

Fact of the matter is that no casino would offer 100% RTP across the board with fully asymmetric games because profit/loss would be random, and businesses rather don't bet on randomness while seeking profitability.

The fluctuation depends on sample size rather than timeframe,,, and it is impossible to see that in what casinos display, weekends I expect have more plays, the idea of them showing it is psychology, to show players like OH wow this slot is hot right now, or OH wow this slot has only paid 89% RTP so the JP should be giving up soon!

Roulette is a great example of exceeding, HE on Europe roulette is 2.7% which translates to theoretical RTP of 97.3,,, I can often see 98% or more on some tables if you move thru 20 tables

I think anyway this is why I always use House Edge games and not slots, HE is baked into every dice roll, every roulette roll but is programmed into slots in a very different way,,, I respect everybody's opinion mv1986 or Free Market Capitalist or memehunter etc but I think us arguing over terminology is no longer beneficial to the users of Duel  Or we can open a thread and do it there