Duel.com -- The first casino with 0% house edge games

[mikel_012]

Because there is a fundamental difference between casino games and PVP games. In PVP games, even if the casino takes a commission, if you are better than your opponents, you can make a profit in the long run. A typical example would be poker, where the house charges a commission (know as rake) on every hand that reaches the flop at least, and there are players who make a profit in the long run. In contrast, in casino games, the house edge (greater than 0) makes it impossible for you to make money in the long run.

But can rock paper scissors be a skill based game where you can be better than your opponents? I think it's more like luck. Perhaps if you keep playing against the same person and you learn how to read their match style, like choosing rock many times in a row until they win.

For poker I can understand that a skill gap can make you win more times

[joeperry]

But can rock paper scissors be a skill based game where you can be better than your opponents? I think it's more like luck. Perhaps if you keep playing against the same person and you learn how to read their match style, like choosing rock many times in a row until they win.

I agree with that but I think even if you play with the same person it would still requires luck more than skill since a person can change pattern and style anytime. I think it's more of a PVP matches and not skill based I consider poker and sports betting more of a skill based games. I think I can define skill based games if a player has a more control over the outcome of the game or they have more options to change the course of the game or match or if better players usually wins more often in the long run.

[mikel_012]

But can rock paper scissors be a skill based game where you can be better than your opponents? I think it's more like luck. Perhaps if you keep playing against the same person and you learn how to read their match style, like choosing rock many times in a row until they win.

I agree with that but I think even if you play with the same person it would still requires luck more than skill since a person can change pattern and style anytime. I think it's more of a PVP matches and not skill based I consider poker and sports betting more of a skill based games. I think I can define skill based games if a player has a more control over the outcome of the game or they have more options to change the course of the game or match or if better players usually wins more often in the long run.

Yes, I was only thinking of extra possibilities

But when you play RPS, how often you think very hard about what to choose? Most people just go with the flow on what they are thinking at that moment and we can agree humans are bad with randomness. If you need to choose a random outcome you will probably repeat or be predictable after some plays

But as I said, this is only the case if you play the same user many times in a row and pay very attention to try to get even a small little edge. For most people it is all random and luck based

[segujohnson]

Hey Duel team (or Monarch if you are reading this),

I’ve been reading this thread and saw your constant claims about how you "only limit dirty abusers, multi-accounters, and syndicate bettors" while promising to welcome legitimate players with open arms. Well, let's put that claim to the test right here.

I am a 100% regular sportsbook player. I actually respected your stance against this stupid, corrupt casino industry and thought Duel was different. So I deposited €189, placed literally ONE single sports bet, and won €386.

Immediately after that single win, your system completely gutted my limits to pocket change.

I am not a bot. I am not an abuser. In fact, I am a high-tier VIP on BC Game, which uses the exact same Betby sportsbook backend as you guys simply because I’ve lost a lot of money there over time. I am the definition of a regular player.

Here is my public User ID: segujohnson

Check my history. One deposit, one single bet, instant limit. Let’s see if your "fairness" talks are real or just marketing hype for sports bettors. Are you going to fix my limits and prove you actually stand behind your words? Are you welcome winning players? The floor is yours.

[MuffinMaster]

Hey Duel team (or Monarch if you are reading this),

I’ve been reading this thread and saw your constant claims about how you "only limit dirty abusers, multi-accounters, and syndicate bettors" while promising to welcome legitimate players with open arms. Well, let's put that claim to the test right here.

I am a 100% regular sportsbook player. I actually respected your stance against this stupid, corrupt casino industry and thought Duel was different. So I deposited €189, placed literally ONE single sports bet, and won €386.

Immediately after that single win, your system completely gutted my limits to pocket change.

I am not a bot. I am not an abuser. In fact, I am a high-tier VIP on BC Game, which uses the exact same Betby sportsbook backend as you guys simply because I’ve lost a lot of money there over time. I am the definition of a regular player.

Here is my public User ID: segujohnson

Check my history. One deposit, one single bet, instant limit. Let’s see if your "fairness" talks are real or just marketing hype for sports bettors. Are you going to fix my limits and prove you actually stand behind your words? Are you welcome winning players? The floor is yours.

This is truly a strange situation, and I'm sure anyone in your shoes would be furious.
Monarch has been inactive on Bitcointalk for over three weeks:



So I'm afraid there's little chance of him replying to you personally anytime soon.
But I think Dollartree will be able to help you explain this.

Anyway, from what you've described, it seems like it was some sort of automatic system reaction. So I'm sure it's just a misunderstanding and will be easily cleared up.
Take it easy 

[Hispo]

Because there is a fundamental difference between casino games and PVP games. In PVP games, even if the casino takes a commission, if you are better than your opponents, you can make a profit in the long run. A typical example would be poker, where the house charges a commission (know as rake) on every hand that reaches the flop at least, and there are players who make a profit in the long run. In contrast, in casino games, the house edge (greater than 0) makes it impossible for you to make money in the long run.

But can rock paper scissors be a skill based game where you can be better than your opponents? I think it's more like luck. Perhaps if you keep playing against the same person and you learn how to read their match style, like choosing rock many times in a row until they win.

For poker I can understand that a skill gap can make you win more times

In real life rock, paper and scissors can actually be a little bit of a psychological game, since there are chances to analyze patterns being played by one's opponent and anticipate what they are planning to do. So, it is possible for us to classify that game as having an important factor of skill, but that is only if it is played in person and during several rounds.

On the other hand, when one plays the casino version of the game there is no actual skill factor for one to get leverage from, it is just a random number generator and the edge of the house controlling the outcome of the game in the long term.
In that case, it is a game which is completely based on luck. One cannot know anything about what the machine is going to choose, since there is no "psyque" to pay attention to and there are no logical patterns to analyze in real time.

[mitchr4]

...

In real life rock, paper and scissors can actually be a little bit of a psychological game, since there are chances to analyze patterns being played by one's opponent and anticipate what they are planning to do. So, it is possible for us to classify that game as having an important factor of skill, but that is only if it is played in person and during several rounds.

On the other hand, when one plays the casino version of the game there is no actual skill factor for one to get leverage from, it is just a random number generator and the edge of the house controlling the outcome of the game in the long term.
In that case, it is a game which is completely based on luck. One cannot know anything about what the machine is going to choose, since there is no "psyque" to pay attention to and there are no logical patterns to analyze in real time.

That makes sense when playing rock paper scissors against a real person in real life, we can watch how they play and try to guess their next move.
But in the casino version everything is decided by a random system, so there is no habit to notice and no pattern to follow.
Whatever strategy we bring means nothing when the result is purely random.

[Hispo]

...

In real life rock, paper and scissors can actually be a little bit of a psychological game, since there are chances to analyze patterns being played by one's opponent and anticipate what they are planning to do. So, it is possible for us to classify that game as having an important factor of skill, but that is only if it is played in person and during several rounds.

On the other hand, when one plays the casino version of the game there is no actual skill factor for one to get leverage from, it is just a random number generator and the edge of the house controlling the outcome of the game in the long term.
In that case, it is a game which is completely based on luck. One cannot know anything about what the machine is going to choose, since there is no "psyque" to pay attention to and there are no logical patterns to analyze in real time.

That makes sense when playing rock paper scissors against a real person in real life, we can watch how they play and try to guess their next move.
But in the casino version everything is decided by a random system, so there is no habit to notice and no pattern to follow.
Whatever strategy we bring means nothing when the result is purely random.

Correct.
Actually, I am give you an example I have noticed while playing rock, paper and scissors against my friends when I was in college: I learnt that statistically it is very rare for someone to choose the same option after they lose. So if they select rock and I chose paper (giving me a point in my favor), it is very unlikely they will pull out rock again, so they will go for either scissor or paper, that increases my chances of correctly guess which their next move would be.

Those are the little cues and things one can use in order to get a little bit of advantage over one's rival, and obviously one cannot use any of those strategies in order to beat the casino, as their algorithm does not have anything to do with human psychology.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Check my history. One deposit, one single bet, instant limit. Let’s see if your "fairness" talks are real or just marketing hype for sports bettors. Are you going to fix my limits and prove you actually stand behind your words? Are you welcome winning players? The floor is yours.

If I get hit by a betting limit on a casino, I would simply withdraw all my cash and move on to the next casino. It's a simple way of saying, "Thank you very much, but you are no longer needed here." So long as they have not confiscated your winnings, then off you go

[mikel_012]

Check my history. One deposit, one single bet, instant limit. Let’s see if your "fairness" talks are real or just marketing hype for sports bettors. Are you going to fix my limits and prove you actually stand behind your words? Are you welcome winning players? The floor is yours.

If I get hit by a betting limit on a casino, I would simply withdraw all my cash and move on to the next casino. It's a simple way of saying, "Thank you very much, but you are no longer needed here." So long as they have not confiscated your winnings, then off you go

I can comprehend why a player would want to continue to bet in Duel. They have no house edge in many games and with a big limit. You do not have many other casinos to choose that also do not have any house edge

I would complain in this case to try to get the limit reverted. But Duel and Monarch are the ones with all the authority to decide the limits of the player, and there is nothing to do if they do not comply with his request

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Because there is a fundamental difference between casino games and PVP games. In PVP games, even if the casino takes a commission, if you are better than your opponents, you can make a profit in the long run. A typical example would be poker, where the house charges a commission (know as rake) on every hand that reaches the flop at least, and there are players who make a profit in the long run. In contrast, in casino games, the house edge (greater than 0) makes it impossible for you to make money in the long run.

But can rock paper scissors be a skill based game where you can be better than your opponents? I think it's more like luck. Perhaps if you keep playing against the same person and you learn how to read their match style, like choosing rock many times in a row until they win.

For poker I can understand that a skill gap can make you win more times

If you play it live, there might be an edge, but if you play a computer simulation of the game, it will mainly come down to luck. But even if you were able to find an edge, whether playing live or online, it would be much smaller than in poker, for example, where the variability of results is enormous by comparison. And no matter how good you think you are, you’ll always have to contend with variance; in other words, you might go through a spell of winning more, thinking you have an edge, and then start racking up losing results that make you doubt yourself.

[segujohnson]

Hey Duel team (or Monarch if you are reading this),

I’ve been reading this thread and saw your constant claims about how you "only limit dirty abusers, multi-accounters, and syndicate bettors" while promising to welcome legitimate players with open arms. Well, let's put that claim to the test right here.

I am a 100% regular sportsbook player. I actually respected your stance against this stupid, corrupt casino industry and thought Duel was different. So I deposited €189, placed literally ONE single sports bet, and won €386.

Immediately after that single win, your system completely gutted my limits to pocket change.

I am not a bot. I am not an abuser. In fact, I am a high-tier VIP on BC Game, which uses the exact same Betby sportsbook backend as you guys simply because I’ve lost a lot of money there over time. I am the definition of a regular player.

Here is my public User ID: segujohnson

Check my history. One deposit, one single bet, instant limit. Let’s see if your "fairness" talks are real or just marketing hype for sports bettors. Are you going to fix my limits and prove you actually stand behind your words? Are you welcome winning players? The floor is yours.

Hey guys, I wanted to drop a quick update on my situation because fairness goes both ways.

My sports limits on Duel are fully back to normal.

It looks like it was just a temporary system glitch/sync delay that got sorted out by the sports risk team (George). Big thanks for the quick action.

[ryzaadit]

My sports limits on Duel are fully back to normal.

It looks like it was just a temporary system glitch/sync delay that got sorted out by the sports risk team (George). Big thanks for the quick action.

Good for you.

But some issue, a same one could appears again. Its not new casino are restricted any advantage player especially on Sportbet. Sometime they even can restricted someone who got restricted on other casino cause both of them using the same provider sportbooks.

If you got sorted out is goos, but take care cause could be you could get a same problem in the future. Its nothing new in sportbet for something like these

[mikel_012]

Hey guys, I wanted to drop a quick update on my situation because fairness goes both ways.

My sports limits on Duel are fully back to normal.

It looks like it was just a temporary system glitch/sync delay that got sorted out by the sports risk team (George). Big thanks for the quick action.

I'm happy everything was sorted and thank you for updating the situation

Duel and any casino can limit people as they please so great that they did a good thing and let you keep playing

But some issue, a same one could appears again. Its not new casino are restricted any advantage player especially on Sportbet. Sometime they even can restricted someone who got restricted on other casino cause both of them using the same provider sportbooks.

If you got sorted out is goos, but take care cause could be you could get a same problem in the future. Its nothing new in sportbet for something like these

It's nothing wrong if a casino limits a player because they do not need to allow you to play. All they need to do is let you take your money out without issues

[Haunebu]

It's nothing wrong if a casino limits a player because they do not need to allow you to play. All they need to do is let you take your money out without issues

There definitely isn't an issue when a casino limits a player for legitimate reasons such as value betting, arbing etc, but there is an issue when they do it for nonsensical reasons in order to avoid paying out which many, many do on a regular basis.

Either way, the ones that allow customers to withdraw their funds are less worse than the ones that outright steal/scam their funds claiming arbitrage betting etc.

[mikel_012]

It's nothing wrong if a casino limits a player because they do not need to allow you to play. All they need to do is let you take your money out without issues

There definitely isn't an issue when a casino limits a player for legitimate reasons such as value betting, arbing etc, but there is an issue when they do it for nonsensical reasons in order to avoid paying out which many, many do on a regular basis.

Even if there is no legitimate reason, it's the way of the casino saying they do not want to do business with you. The casino is not obligated to let you play if they think you will give them a lot of negative profit

The only wrong thing to do is cancel legitimate bets or steal money because that's scamming

[Hispo]

It's nothing wrong if a casino limits a player because they do not need to allow you to play. All they need to do is let you take your money out without issues

There definitely isn't an issue when a casino limits a player for legitimate reasons such as value betting, arbing etc, but there is an issue when they do it for nonsensical reasons in order to avoid paying out which many, many do on a regular basis.

Even if there is no legitimate reason, it's the way of the casino saying they do not want to do business with you. The casino is not obligated to let you play if they think you will give them a lot of negative profit

The only wrong thing to do is cancel legitimate bets or steal money because that's scamming

I am pretty sure most of centralized casinos nowadays reserve their rights to deny their services to one without being forced to provide any valid reason for them to do so.

It is a thing which is not only done by casinos and bookies on the internet, pretty much any service on the internet seems to have added that legal tool on their terms of service, in order to easily get rid of unwanted costumers as quickly as possible, with a minimum impact to their reputation (if they do things properly).

A casino is never supposed to use their terms of service as a weapon to deny rightly won money to their lucky gamblers, but they will certainly make use of their legal tools if they see there are gamblers who happen to be unprofitable to them in the long term (which is very rare).
Before limiting accounts and setting them on withdraw-only mode, casinos typically first tell lucky gamblers they are not longer elegible to receive future bonuses, that is something I have personally seen.

[Haunebu]

Even if there is no legitimate reason, it's the way of the casino saying they do not want to do business with you. The casino is not obligated to let you play if they think you will give them a lot of negative profit

This logic literally applies to every business out there and it's common sense at the end of the day. Problem is when such businesses take advantage of their TOS to avoid paying out in a legit/shady manner just like what @Hispo above mentioned.

Before limiting accounts and setting them on withdraw-only mode, casinos typically first tell lucky gamblers they are not longer elegible to receive future bonuses, that is something I have personally seen.

Only some casinos do that while some others don't even bother warning them and just get right down to it. Fine either way as long as they don't steal or scam basically.

[maydna]

It's nothing wrong if a casino limits a player because they do not need to allow you to play. All they need to do is let you take your money out without issues

There definitely isn't an issue when a casino limits a player for legitimate reasons such as value betting, arbing etc, but there is an issue when they do it for nonsensical reasons in order to avoid paying out which many, many do on a regular basis.

Even if there is no legitimate reason, it's the way of the casino saying they do not want to do business with you. The casino is not obligated to let you play if they think you will give them a lot of negative profit

The only wrong thing to do is cancel legitimate bets or steal money because that's scamming

That makes people research before they choose the casino so that is the key avoiding the wrong casino and makes them stay away from scam casinos. People can finds many information through Internet but they must spend time to get the right info and know the real thing. They can't just rely on others review since they don't know if that is real or fake review. Research helps them to decide later and hopefully, they can choose the right casino.

[ryzaadit]

It's nothing wrong if a casino limits a player because they do not need to allow you to play. All they need to do is let you take your money out without issues

Nothing wrong, if they limit before people playing or place a bets

But majority casino do it after the player win, limit the bets and refuse to pay the money they already win. In Landbase casino, is nothing new they back off or refused the player to play on BJ (if they can count card).

But they must allowed cashout the chips player.