Are casino TOS another “hidden house edge”?

[Distinctin]

Some gamblers think that a casino’s Terms of Service is just another form of house edge. The rules are always against the player, and sometimes people end up in trouble without even realizing they already violated something in the TOS.

So is this mindset actually correct, or is the real issue that they didn’t choose the right casino to gamble with in the first place?

If you’re active in the Gambling board and especially in Scam Accusations, you’ll notice a pattern. Most gamblers who run into problems are there because they violated the TOS, whether intentionally or not.

So how do you see this?
Are TOS really designed as an extra edge for casinos, or are gamblers just ignoring the rules until it’s too late?

[acroman08]

So how do you see this?
Are TOS really designed as an extra edge for casinos, or are gamblers just ignoring the rules until it’s too late?

I guess in a way, yeah, I mean, it is no secret that a casino's terms and conditions are always in favor of the casino, and never the gamblers, which ultimately gives the casino an edge against gamblers. Even when a gambler properly follows the casino's terms and conditions, they can still get in trouble or get their bets voided because of the casino's Tos.

[Orpichukwu]

If they say the ToS is an extra edge for the casino, I won't argue that. The casino is running a business, and they need to protect their business and their interests first before any other thing, but one thing about casino policy is that it's public.

You as their customer need to carefully read it before you start patronising them so as not to fall victim to breaking the rules without knowing.

Cases where I stand against the casino are situations where they make use of their disclaimer, "We have the right to adjust the rules," making changes without the customer being notified or only when there is a case on the ground, which is unethical.

[Vaculin]

Even when a gambler properly follows the casino's terms and conditions, they can still get in trouble or get their bets voided because of the casino's Tos.

I think I know what you’re talking about, are you referring to the famous arbitrage betting violation... lol.

That’s usually the kind of issue I see gamblers complaining about, and the rule around it is pretty complicated because it’s one sided. Only the casino or sportsbook gets to judge it, there’s no real transparency, they just tell you that you violated the rules and that’s it.

[joeperry]

So how do you see this?
Are TOS really designed as an extra edge for casinos, or are gamblers just ignoring the rules until it’s too late?

Most of the gamblers doesn't read the ToS, because you know... it's too long and sometimes too technical. However, it won't be a problem for most of gamblers who only deposit small amounts since they don't usually look at us but if you are going to see the patterns, those users who are complaining and having a problem with the casinos are whales or users with bigger deposits. Now, those people are aware about the ToS since they will not going to deposit a big amount and they don't know what are the rules of the platform. It's not a house edge for the platform, if you, as a gambler is reading the ToS and it's actually your responsibility since there's always a checkbox that you accept the terms and condition of their platform whenever you are signing up some times it says "By signing up, you accept the ToS of this casino" so I wouldn't say it's a house edge for casino but if the gambler is legally allowed and he/she doesn't do anything suspicious or against the platform, then there's no need for him/her to worry.

Now that we are in the AI era, you can just copy and paste the terms and condition and ask it to summarize for your or ask it to look for KYC requirement, withdrawal requirement, not allowed countries, etc.

[Cointxz]

So how do you see this?
Are TOS really designed as an extra edge for casinos, or are gamblers just ignoring the rules until it’s too late?

It’s not a hidden house edge since it’s content is disclosed to all the players but you have a point here that it serve as additional house edge since the casino operator can include a rule there that will make them safe from any form of sure bets or potential losses coming from players that will find a way to exploit some of their features.

Those arbitrage betting, value betting, card counting and many more methods are not illegal per se yet casino usually categorized at as unfair on their ToS.

[Ruttoshi]

Some people don't bother to read the ToS of the casino when they're creating their accounts which will make them ignorant of the casino rules. It's when they have violated it and their account has been blocked, they will start going back to read the casino ToS.

However, only few rules are in favor of the casino like card counting and collision. You should know that casinos wouldn't do anything that will turn out to be of loss to them. The casino algorithm is designed to favor them.

[Distinctin]

So how do you see this?
Are TOS really designed as an extra edge for casinos, or are gamblers just ignoring the rules until it’s too late?

It’s not a hidden house edge since it’s content is disclosed to all the players but you have a point here that it serve as additional house edge since the casino operator can include a rule there that will make them safe from any form of sure bets or potential losses coming from players that will find a way to exploit some of their features.

Those arbitrage betting, value betting, card counting and many more methods are not illegal per se yet casino usually categorized at as unfair on their ToS.

You’re getting the point. Everything that’s written can be interpreted differently, both by the casino and by the gambler. But since they’re the ones making the judgment, the decision will always lean in their favor. In a way, that already acts like a house edge, even if it’s indirect. And I’m really referring here to casinos that don’t bother maintaining a good reputation.

[Helena Yu]

Yeah it is, I ever gamble in a big casino which many users said they never ask KYC for gambling small amount of coins, yet they ask my KYC when I want to withdraw my coins, fuck it.

Even though house edge is a term for casino's advantage in games, but TOS is theoretically a house edge too because it favor on the casino.

It’s not a hidden house edge since it’s content is disclosed to all the players but you have a point here that it serve as additional house edge since the casino operator can include a rule there that will make them safe from any form of sure bets or potential losses coming from players that will find a way to exploit some of their features.

Sometime it's hidden because the casino didn't mention all of their rules, they use word "etc" which no one know what is exactly the etc that the casino means. I don't think "we" even read the whole rules, we only search what we're looking for, we might not aware with other rules that could affect us.

[rbynxx]

So how do you see this?
Are TOS really designed as an extra edge for casinos, or are gamblers just ignoring the rules until it’s too late?

Have you ever read the TOS when you even signed up for the casino? None right? But do you know what are the common or basic rules pertaining to casinos especially those things you have to avoid? Well, most TOS are just plained copies of one another and basically if you know most of what to avoid, it's your edge too in the first place.

[davis196]

Some gamblers think that a casino’s Terms of Service is just another form of house edge. The rules are always against the player, and sometimes people end up in trouble without even realizing they already violated something in the TOS.

So is this mindset actually correct, or is the real issue that they didn’t choose the right casino to gamble with in the first place?

If you’re active in the Gambling board and especially in Scam Accusations, you’ll notice a pattern. Most gamblers who run into problems are there because they violated the TOS, whether intentionally or not.

So how do you see this?
Are TOS really designed as an extra edge for casinos, or are gamblers just ignoring the rules until it’s too late?

The Terms of Service are just a form of legal protection for the casino/sportsbook. I do believe that some casinos use their Terms of Service in a way that would make someone think, that the gamblers are screwed and the casino is trying to take financial advantage of them.
When you say "the rules are against the player" can you mention examples of such rules? How does prohibiting the registration of multiple accounts by one person violate the player's rights? Does the wagering requirement(imposed to prevent bonus abuse) represent a rule that is against the players?
The people, who are having problems with certain casinos tend to react emotional and bitter. I do understand them, having your money blocked in your casino account really sucks. The picture portrayed by the people, who are posting in the Scam Accusations forum isn't always truthful.

[Kasabus]

The picture portrayed by the people, who are posting in the Scam Accusations forum isn't always truthful.

Correct, but I don’t really see value betting accusations against gamblers as a clear violation of the TOS.
When a gambler is accused of value betting it usually just means they took advantage of a bad market price and won, but the real question is if they lost that bet would the casino refund them, or would they just stay silent about it.

[stadus]

Yeah it is, I ever gamble in a big casino which many users said they never ask KYC for gambling small amount of coins, yet they ask my KYC when I want to withdraw my coins, fuck it.

But the TOS clearly says they can require KYC anytime when needed. So don’t really listen too much to whatever casinos are marketing, some even claim they’re no-KYC casinos while still being registered. If we don’t read the full terms, we can easily become victims of our own ignorance, not in a bad way, that’s just how things are now. And the fact that these casinos are still operating tells me what they’re doing isn’t illegal, otherwise regulators would’ve already stepped in and penalized them.

[Yaunfitda]

There were even some accusations that ToS are being written in a way that most of us might not want to read it because it's too long or deliberately they put words that it might be difficult for others to understand and so there could be gamblers that are not reading it. And only when there are issues that they decided to go and read the fine print and understand between the line. But I think ToS is there by design because it's going to be a protection or shield by casinos against accusations against them, like using VPN or cheating by having multiple accounts. So I don't consider it as a hidden house edge.

[freedomgo]

There were even some accusations that ToS are being written in a way that most of us might not want to read it because it's too long or deliberately they put words that it might be difficult for others to understand and so there could be gamblers that are not reading it. And only when there are issues that they decided to go and read the fine print and understand between the line.

That’s how TOS are normally written, they look long because everything is detailed there so in case a dispute comes up, both sides can refer to what’s written.
But realistically casinos usually win those disputes, it’s very rare that they end up losing.

But I think ToS is there by design because it's going to be a protection or shield by casinos against accusations against them, like using VPN or cheating by having multiple accounts. So I don't consider it as a hidden house edge.

Multi-accounting is interesting because even if a casino concludes that a user violated the TOS, a scam casino can just say it without showing any real evidence and gamblers end up screwed. At that point the TOS doesn’t really matter anymore if the casino itself is a scam.

The only real solution is simple, stick with trusted casinos.

[Haunebu]

It's a house edge obviously, but it is completely visible as long as you are willing to put in the effort to look for it in the right place. Am a fan of those sites that make it extremely transparent and easy to find when compared to the sites that hide them away sneakily.

Some terms are easy to grasp while some are more complicated. One example is Tennis walkover rules. Do your research people.

[Obim34]

So how do you see this?
Are TOS really designed as an extra edge for casinos, or are gamblers just ignoring the rules until it’s too late?

Gambling companies, casinos are known to be run as a business, and whatever rules under their TOS are mandated to favor them, if they don't keep it positive on their end, they will surely run into losses. Casino rules are set, it's always optional for anyone who wants to use the casino to either follow the rules or not use the casino.

From my perspective, it's an extra edge for casinos without wrong.

[Samlucky O]

Some gamblers think that a casino’s Terms of Service is just another form of house edge. The rules are always against the player, and sometimes people end up in trouble without even realizing they already violated something in the TOS.

you might be right though, looking at the complains of people who has been banned or restricted from using their account, was just as a result of a small mistake, but was did ignorantly and was punishable according to the TOS. so i believe this to be true even if it was a lie, but there has been a lot of complain by many people saying that this casino laws are very strict, and some are not using some gambling site simply for this reason.

So is this mindset actually correct, or is the real issue that they didn’t choose the right casino to gamble with in the first place?

this reminds me of a situation of someone wining in a casino but due to him not doing a kyc made the casino not to allow him to withdraw. meanwhile he has been playing gamble and and losing without being affected by this law, only being affected after wining a huge amount of money. so i think this casino are doing this things to their favour

So how do you see this?
Are TOS really designed as an extra edge for casinos, or are gamblers just ignoring the rules until it’s too late?

the truth is that casino are really design in a way that the TOS serves as an extra edge for the house. and also gamblers ignore them or knows about them but dont have any option than to watch it since they cant change or add anything.

[Eternad]

It's a house edge obviously, but it is completely visible as long as you are willing to put in the effort to look for it in the right place. Am a fan of those sites that make it extremely transparent and easy to find when compared to the sites that hide them away sneakily.

Some terms are easy to grasp while some are more complicated. One example is Tennis walkover rules. Do your research people.

This is true. I do use the find in page function on the browser to easily find the terms on the games that I play frequently to make a familiarity on how the put their rules on the game.

In sports betting, they have different complex rules on different sports category to make the casino very clear about not paying in case something went wrong on the game.

On slot games, casino usually doesn’t have any questionable rules since they just note in case of bug.

[Sanitough]

This is definitely a house edge for scammers. For casinos that operate with good intentions, the TOS are transparent and clearly explained so gamblers can understand them, and even third parties can review them if complaints come up later.

The thing is, it’s already hard enough to win in a casino because of the inherent house edge. But this one shouldn’t even be called a house edge, a real edge is clean and clear, this isn’t. This one has an intention to scam.