How does the whole merit giving aspect work?

[Satofan44]

The bitter truth, I realised what you want to express. But still quality posters are rewarded by merits. Instead of thinking about earning merits, if someone focuses on learning and contributing to the forum, it's still possible to earn merits and rank up. It looks like you are irritated by the methods of how users are spending their merits.

There are different reason for which someone might want merit, I am not looking into that right now in this case. For example, someone might try to contribute a lot and then be disappointed with the amount of merit that they've received. Merit could be seen as a proxy metric for validation of contribution by some. Wrong or right? Who cares, that is how these things will be perceived by some people.

I've said it before somewhere, merit here is basically like an Instagram style like button. The seniors have fully corrupted it to the core and turned it into a popularity contest, not a metric of quality as it is intended. There are many private merit blacklists and emotions involved where they should be none, plenty of "I won't merit you because I don't like you" or "I will merit my own people a lot" stuff is going on.

If I have very little of something, why would I give it away? This question can only be really asked of merit sources, not of average users. I like hoarding my sMerit. Sometimes I use it to acknowledge a good post that I have read but will not reply to, effectively ending the discussion with that (at least temporarily).

It's true no one is forcing you to spend your merits, but if all the users think this way, then merit circulation will drop. I admit merit sources are obliged to spend their merits; otherwise, they will lost them. But there is no benefit if you are hoarding your merits as well. From your perspective you can reward as well, and so far I can see you are spending your merits as well. I often encourage merit holders to help other users; just follow your own standards and reward what you think is a quality post. You can measure quality posts based on your own criteria, but help other users. That is also a kind of contribution to the forum.

Most of the merit being given comes from merit sources, they are the ones that should not be conservative with their merits like I am. I don't think that my decision to be conservative has a lot of impact on the overall distribution of merit ohe forum. Anyway, I am not a good example to use at all because I am extremely hesitant to give lowly ranked members merit (this is also wrong, but in 99.9% of the cases they are posting junk so the practice currently is valid) due to the number of account farmers around here. Lastly, any system that does not have coercion for a specific way of behaving will have all kinds of members. Some will be very liberal with it, others will be very conservative with it. Neither is wrong because they balance each other out. If everyone was very liberal with the merit, the account farmers would have it much easier than they already do.

For real you have said something true and just the fact, as it is what it is and it is now becoming more and more the actual situation. The real posts that deserves the merits are not even gaining them but they're some comments you'll see that they give merits to, you'll begin to doubt the process. But hell yeah, they have the right to choose who they want to give them (merits) to so we can't come out to question their decisions.

The thing is that only very few merit behaviors are disallowed and they are often very hard to prove, especially behaviors that relate to biased merit giving. Proving intent is hard, and someone can always mount up all kinds of defenses ranging from "I didn't read that post or find it interesting" to all sorts of things. Because of this it is unlikely that a member can create change in this system. Therefore, if you need merit for whatever reason just adapt yourself into the process and the system, and keep quiet. Don't cause trouble to get yourself into the spotlight, that is how most of the farmers or even average members are doing it.  

[lovesmayfamilis]

Therefore, if you need merit for whatever reason just adapt yourself into the process and the system, and keep quiet. Don't cause trouble to get yourself into the spotlight, that is how most of the farmers or even average members are doing it.

In this case, I would emphasize this phrase to the OP. It's not surprising that he ignored my first post in this thread, as he knows I'm telling the truth about him having another account (at least I know of one) that has risen remarkably in rank by exchanging merits using one of the methods you suggested. After I warned him early on in his posts that transferring merits to alternative accounts is not encouraged, he focused on the second account. Anyone can compare his style of speaking, which I pointed out, and he seemed to agree but lied about it being his "girlfriend." However, the posting styles of the "girlfriend" and the OP are very similar.

https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?from=El_Tammy&to=Mhizlove

OP, I wouldn't have raised this issue if I hadn't seen the blatant lies you've created in this thread. Keep exchanging merits with your easily trackable list; business as usual, nothing new.

Since the PM was from me and there's nothing hidden, I see no reason not to show it. The post has been edited by the OP to remove noticeable phrases.



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5559742.msg65830062#msg65830062
https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6583/65835971.html

[SamReomo]

Since the PM was from me and there's nothing hidden, I see no reason not to show it. The post has been edited by the OP to remove noticeable phrases.



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5559742.msg65830062#msg65830062
https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6583/65835971.html

I guess very few people on the forum can warn with such messages and its for your own good OP, whatever lovesmayfamilis said in PM is going to be helpful for you and if you're in some kind of multi accounting and you're meriting those accounts to get the ranks higher in order to be able to join signature campaigns then you should fix your that habit and stick to only one account.

Trust me having only a single trust worthy account it better than having 10 accounts. Just be yourself and give up on greed of growing multiple accounts and instead focus on building only one account and you'll see merits coming to you if you contribute good stuff. I know it's sometimes hard to get as many merits as reputable members but still you'll get some merits trust me.

[nutildah]

In this case, I would emphasize this phrase to the OP. It's not surprising that he ignored my first post in this thread, as he knows I'm telling the truth about him having another account (at least I know of one) that has risen remarkably in rank by exchanging merits using one of the methods you suggested. After I warned him early on in his posts that transferring merits to alternative accounts is not encouraged, he focused on the second account. Anyone can compare his style of speaking, which I pointed out, and he seemed to agree but lied about it being his "girlfriend." However, the posting styles of the "girlfriend" and the OP are very similar.

Take note OP.

This is how you get merits. The quoted post is interesting, informative, enlightening, and funny. It is also useful (for me and you, don't know if you realize it) and educational. Those are pretty much my criteria for deciding if a post is meritable, and they're all combined into 1 post.

The best case scenario is you heard about this forum from someone else who was running multiple accounts and decided to do the same. The more probable scenario is you've been here for a long time and have lots of accounts. Did it ever occur to you that if you put your whole brain into just 1 account, instead of dividing it among many, you'd be more likely to write posts worth meriting?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

2. Follow around those that give out merits frequently and for pretty useless posts, post often where they post and around the times when they post.
3. Agree with and be nice to merit sources and merit givers, even if you have to fake it. Find ways to agree with their post, no matter how wrong or useless their post is.

Oh damn, m'man.  That right up above is just some terrible advice.  I'm a merit source, and I generally can tell when I'm being tailed by shitposters looking for merits just like the jackals they are (or I at least can catch a whiff of their excremental presence).  Anyone who's got merits to give shouldn't be handing them out for useless posts--even though I can't deny that it happens more often than I'd like to see.

And yeah, pretend those merit sources are just huge penises roaming around the forum waiting for a warmed-up oral cavity.  That's never obvious.  I know a faker when I see one, even if I've been fooled before.

Now I'm left scratching my head wondering how the hell you would up earning merits by writing crap like this.  Maybe you ought to suggest padding your posts as hard as you can, regardless of whether you make sense or you're repeating yourself or are coherent or redundant or on-topic or just keep saying the same thing over and over or you're repeating yourself or are coherent or redundant or on-topic or just keep saying the same thing over and over or you're repeating yourself or are coherent or redundant or on-topic or just keep saying the same thing over and over....you get me?

[LoyceV]

Oh damn, m'man.  That right up above is just some terrible advice.
~
Now I'm left scratching my head wondering how the hell you would up earning merits by writing crap like this.

Your sarcasm detector is broken

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Oh damn, m'man.  That right up above is just some terrible advice.
~
Now I'm left scratching my head wondering how the hell you would up earning merits by writing crap like this.

Your sarcasm detector is broken

Oh.  You know what else is broken?  Those brake pads between my ears that used to, and still ought to, slow me down enough to read things thoroughly.  And when I say broken, I mean smashed to atoms and buried deep in a landfill by used condoms and other disgusting entropy.

Ahem.  I offer my apologies to that poster whom I might have besmirched inadvertently. 

LoyceV, you didn't get to be 5th most recognized on BPIP and wind up with the most earned merit on the whole forum for nothing.  I bow before your grandeur (after I'm done with Foxpup, of course).

[Churchillvv]

Oh damn, m'man.  That right up above is just some terrible advice.
~
Now I'm left scratching my head wondering how the hell you would up earning merits by writing crap like this.

Your sarcasm detector is broken

Oh.  You know what else is broken?  Those brake pads between my ears that used to, and still ought to, slow me down enough to read things thoroughly.  And when I say broken, I mean smashed to atoms and buried deep in a landfill by used condoms and other disgusting entropy.

Even though you may be writing in terms that seem not understandable clearly what you mean, I still understand you and it’s quite unfortunate that abusers broke the glass used in holding vulnerable heart but then it gets to be an effect on both people who would have deserved it in the very future which is now but however, the fact remains abusers will always abuse eve if you shut the door.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Even though you may be writing in terms that seem not understandable clearly what you mean, I still understand you and it’s quite unfortunate that abusers broke the glass used in holding vulnerable heart but then it gets to be an effect on both people who would have deserved it in the very future which is now but however, the fact remains abusers will always abuse eve if you shut the door.

I think what I write should very clearly express what I'm trying to get across to whoever might read it--even if I'm a mistaken clod as in this case.  There might be a language barrier, but SIR, that has nothing whatever to do with my crazy skills as a digital scribbler.

What I've italicized above almost made me slap the spectacles off of my brow; there is the future and then there is now.  The two are as different as oranges, rectangles, apples and/or a pregnant sow.  Please tell me you hadn't any difficulty parsing that.

No standing ovations, please.  I'm here all night.  Try the veal.

[uchegod-21]

Firstly, I want everyone to have an open mind towards merits. Op stated that he is surprised that people who put in so much efforts in their work don't get merits. We all should understand that merits is  not only reward for efforts made. People should put in efforts and consider it their contribution to the growth of the forum. As much as the you think the post deserves some merits, you should know that sense of judgement is different, and some persons who may find the post interesting may not have sMerits to give out. There is no general guidelines for giving out merits. But as a writer, do not chase merits, put in efforts as usual and you'll get the visibility you didn't chase after.

[knowngunman]

For like sometime now, I've been asking myself so many questions about the forum and how it operates and works, how do the moderators know if a user has multiple accounts, makes posts using AI, and even know everything about the forum in general.

The moderators have no business with multiple accounts and they can not take any action against that. The forum is not against having multiple accounts and you'll not be penalised for that even if it's discovered. Having multiple accounts become a problem when you start cheating with it in a campaign by enrolling them in the same campaign. It's against majority of campaign manager's policy to enrol multiple accounts in one campaign.

The moderators have access to forum features that ordinary users can not access, it's not surprising if they have more knowledge about the forum than ordinary users.

Ai posts can be identified by anyone. There are several tools to detect AI posts and you can help report such posts in this thread AI Spam Report Reference Thread to ease work for moderators.

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

So how come it still is a thing of great difficulty for users to give merit to some posts and comments that are worth it or is there still something we've got to know. If really I'm not hitting the point, I please want major explanations because I really don't see why people will decide to hold the sMerits that are not something they should keep.

Anything that is not moderated is difficult to control. What I consider quality post might be different from your own perspective since there is no unique creteria on what quality post is all about. Despite theymos being cleared on this, people majorly give out merits based on what align with their own. Aside this, some people also give merit based on your reputation or relation (locality).

[Churchillvv]

Even though you may be writing in terms that seem not understandable clearly what you mean, I still understand you and it’s quite unfortunate that abusers broke the glass used in holding vulnerable heart but then it gets to be an effect on both people who would have deserved it in the very future which is now but however, the fact remains abusers will always abuse eve if you shut the door.

I think what I write should very clearly express what I'm trying to get across to whoever might read it--even if I'm a mistaken clod as in this case.  There might be a language barrier, but SIR, that has nothing whatever to do with my crazy skills as a digital scribbler.

What I've italicized above almost made me slap the spectacles off of my brow; there is the future and then there is now.  The two are as different as oranges, rectangles, apples and/or a pregnant sow.  Please tell me you hadn't any difficulty parsing that.

No standing ovations, please.  I'm here all night.  Try the veal.

My physiognomy while reading through this betrayed my Intrepidity yet I’m pleased to have found myself back hence declaring that sometimes words can be more barriers than actually language differences, rhetorically speaking choice of words aren’t that crazy enough for a Perspicacious individual not to comprehend.

Additionally, in the days where cases that led to the Hobson choice today or this day is the future you meant while the future remains a mystery yet unfolds everyday, I’m certain there might be changes that will led to another decisions, yet I haven’t found one. However not to deviate form the actual discussion merit is a reward but not many will get it as expected.

[nutildah]

Even though you may be writing in terms that seem not understandable clearly what you mean, I still understand you and it’s quite unfortunate that abusers broke the glass used in holding vulnerable heart but then it gets to be an effect on both people who would have deserved it in the very future which is now but however, the fact remains abusers will always abuse eve if you shut the door.

...
What I've italicized above almost made me slap the spectacles off of my brow; there is the future and then there is now.  The two are as different as oranges, rectangles, apples and/or a pregnant sow.  Please tell me you hadn't any difficulty parsing that.

This goes to show that we've matured quite a bit over time. In years past I think you would have unleashed more of a hell upon someone for wasting your time having to read and respond to straight up drivel. Its posts like that one which make me think the idea of negative merits might not be so bad. How would it work?

"You have to spend 10 earned sMerits to cast 1 negative merit (nMerit) on a post."

OK sign me up. And also:

"2 nMerits will reduce the receiving user's sMerit balance by 1."

[Daniel91]

Very interesting question but there is no universal answer that would apply to all members.
Simply, there are no concrete and firm rules about giving merit, objective criteria, but it differs from member to member.
Admins like theymos mentioned some criteria for the usefulness of a post, but what is useful for one member is not for another.
This is more about the emotions that a post evokes, and the personal feeling of whether a post helped me, or aroused some emotions, than about some objective criteria.

[Nathrixxx]

Very interesting question but there is no universal answer that would apply to all members.
Simply, there are no concrete and firm rules about giving merit, objective criteria, but it differs from member to member.

While some of the guidelines we can still follow ls remain not to trade merit it self merit alt account, this alone explains it all, on the other side, we are open to give merit base on how a post appears to us being a quality one, so anyone who knows how to earn merits should also know the right pattern of sending it to a deserving post, it is not moderated and at the same yimmstbnitbhe abused.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

While some of the guidelines we can still follow ls remain not to trade merit it self merit alt account, this alone explains it all, on the other side, we are open to give merit base on how a post appears to us being a quality one, so anyone who knows how to earn merits should also know the right pattern of sending it to a deserving post, it is not moderated and at the same yimmstbnitbhe abused.

Your account shows how you got merit and sent merit with not too quality posts, if I don't want to say non merit deserved posts.

It's funny that you're bravely to post and teach the others like this, and you need to know that it only makes your account more suspicious with your merit exchanges with your friends. Rather than trying to make noise, teach the others, you can stay humble and keep your shady merit exchanges hidden in the mud.

[Asiska02]

While some of the guidelines we can still follow ls remain not to trade merit it self merit alt account, this alone explains it all, on the other side, we are open to give merit base on how a post appears to us being a quality one, so anyone who knows how to earn merits should also know the right pattern of sending it to a deserving post, it is not moderated and at the same yimmstbnitbhe abused.

Trading merits with your alt accounts is just like you self acclaiming yourself which is not right. Allow others to find meaning and usefulness in what you post, only with that method will you be able to grow better in the forum without doubting yourself whether you truly deserves it or not. Anytime you’ve received a merit from a post it means that your post have added value to the forum or specifically to the person sending merits to you, he finds something valuable in what you’ve posted and hence the meriting of the post.

In essence, not receiving merits and not also receiving correction or black ash to your post doesn’t mean your post is bad, so keep it up with the good posts in the forum, merit is subjective to whom is giving it out to you and not to the content you share to the forum always even though it’s a good one.

[Majestic-milf]

Don't let others tell you lies or hide the real state of things here. This is not how merit is being given these days, and maybe it never was how users did it. The following represents the overall practices for earning easy merit these days.

1. Join Bitcoin contests such as the Node or LN challenge (low to medium difficulty). Even easier, join useless contests wherever they are available. Check local boards where they exist, there are useless art or food contests.
2. Follow around those that give out merits frequently and for pretty useless posts, post often where they post and around the times when they post.
3. Agree with and be nice to merit sources and merit givers, even if you have to fake it. Find ways to agree with their post, no matter how wrong or useless their post is.
4. Send merit to users who could merit you, that will make you stand out even more. They like their ego being reinforced. Besides being nice to those people, you should give them merit wherever possible.

Just follow this and you can gain any amount of merit needed for ranking up. Any claims to the contrary are lies -- there is no reason to hide the truth from users who do not have connections here. You can also work back from some recent top merit earners, focus on those that don't deserve it or have pretty shitty posts. Look where they are getting the merits and how, then just insert yourself in the process. Most spamming users are doing this and so are the account farmers. Questions?

So how come it still is a thing of great difficulty for users to give merit to some posts and comments that are worth it or is there still something we've got to know. If really I'm not hitting the point, I please want major explanations because I really don't see why people will decide to hold the sMerits that are not something they should keep.

If I have very little of something, why would I give it away? This question can only be really asked of merit sources, not of average users. I like hoarding my sMerit. Sometimes I use it to acknowledge a good post that I have read but will not reply to, effectively ending the discussion with that (at least temporarily).

It's crazy how you managed to hit the truth square on the head without buttressing or sugarcoating it. That takes guts and it's not everyone that would be that bold to admit that there are yesmen and those who lick ass to to get acknowledged by a merit source and for which, I respect it but again, it would seem as if you're a making a generalized survey and lumping even the honest ones in this category, thereby belittling their efforts.
 I get it that the op seems frustrated that the "good way" isn't fetching them the "attention" that's deserved but again, when has anything good come easy? It takes a lot of a patience to grow here, I won't lie but that doesn't mean that growth won't happen.

[Satofan44]

It's crazy how you managed to hit the truth square on the head without buttressing or sugarcoating it. That takes guts and it's not everyone that would be that bold to admit that there are yesmen and those who lick ass to to get acknowledged by a merit source and for which, I respect it but again, it would seem as if you're a making a generalized survey and lumping even the honest ones in this category, thereby belittling their efforts.
 I get it that the op seems frustrated that the "good way" isn't fetching them the "attention" that's deserved but again, when has anything good come easy? It takes a lot of a patience to grow here, I won't lie but that doesn't mean that growth won't happen.

Which "honest" users are covered by what I wrote? If the primary aim is to earn merit to join a signature campaign, farm accounts or whatever then the user is dishonest automatically. Whether they are conscious or not of their dishonesty does not matter, many people do not posses high level thinking through which they can have a nuanced analysis of their behavior, including subconscious patterns. If a user is failing to earn merit traditionally, and only enters contests because of this -- they are desperate and dishonest. For example, I only joined the LN challenge and not the nodes challenge or any other contests. I wanted those merits, but I was interested in the topic and it led me to write a complete guide on it. That is honest, I could have easily earned merits elsewhere -- but joining every single contest because you can barely get any merit otherwise is dishonest. You can observe the patterns in the people who apply to these challenges, often they have earned very little in recent times.

Furthermore, as I have said some people may be "yesmen" without even being conscious of it as not all humans posses the ability to do this high level analysis of their behaviors. Because it is unconscious does that mean it is not dishonest? If I am not aware that murder is bad, that does not mean that my action of murdering someone is no longer bad? An action is wrong regardless of whether I understand that it is wrong or not, my ignorance does not change this. However, we still have to differentiate on levels of wrongness. For example, an user that is doing this primarily to farm accounts and join campaigns -- knowingly engaging in anything that I have described -- is evil and should be nuked. They are usually a much worse person than someone who does it in a subconscious way. The latter are often either badly damaged humans that have some mental issues ("yesmen" usually do), or they are just examples of less developed humans who are closer to stupidity on the IQ scale (and overall intelligence, which is more complex). This fact may hurt, but it is a fact nevertheless.

People who have earned their merits the hard way, like d5000 should be proud of their posts and success. Other users should strive to be more like them, but engaging in easy ways to get merits is the exact opposite of that.

[sleepfirefly]

So how come it still is a thing of great difficulty for users to give merit to some posts and comments that are worth it or is there still something we've got to know. If really I'm not hitting the point, I please want major explanations because I really don't see why people will decide to hold the sMerits that are not something they should keep.

it could also be that they don’t have sMerits left so they can no longer send out merits.

another thing i have noticed is that sometimes when a user agrees with you, they just quote your post and not really give merits but they do say that it’s a good post or a point that you have given