2012 according to the Mayan calendar

[the joint]

Bingo.  When you spend enough time looking at the sky, even without a telescope if you aren't presently distracted by all the high tech shit in Western society (live for a few decades in a 3rd world country where there are no city lights clouding the sky), you'll see things a different way.  Mayans, Egyptians, and Sumerians got pretty goddamn accurate with their "astrology" if you ask me.

It's like if I were to say I can't see with my ears.  Ask a blind person.

Please feel free to enlighten us, and try to refrain from analogies like "seeing with your ears".  And don't bring older cultures into it, back in that time period astrology and astronomy were linked and almost interchangeable in their usage.  

At the end of the 17th century, new scientific concepts in astronomy (such as heliocentrism) began to damage the credibility of astrology, which subsequently lost its academic and theoretical standing. Astrology saw a popular revival in the 19th and 20th centuries as part of a general revival of spiritualism and later New Age philosophy, and through the influence of mass media such as newspaper horoscopes.[3]

While astrology may bear a superficial resemblance to science, it is a pseudoscience because it makes little attempt to develop solutions to its problems, shows no concern for the evaluation of competing theories, and is selective in considering confirmations and dis-confirmations

That's not astronomy.  It's astrology, astronomy is science and astrology is voodoo.  

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Also, how do you plan to win a bet proving astrology isn't bogus when astrology itself is a belief system, and can't really be disproven or proven (like religion).  

"Seeing with your ears" was chosen because that's essentially what happens subjectively.  I don't care that ears are not eyes.  Blind people adapt and they begin to use their ears for spatial recognition.  Do you think thoughts are also non-visual experiences?  I don't know about you, but I can see my thoughts clearly and vividly, especially if I focus on them.  Senses are interconnected.  Hold your nose and eat something; I bet it doesn't taste the same.  Or, notice how people turn down the music in their car when they are looking for addresses.  Why would people do this if hearing didn't influence your vision?

I'm not sure why you brought up religion.  I think you were trying to indirectly suggest that religions are based upon no evidence.  Even if that was true (check out East Asian religions, they are extremely scientific), not only is faith still the common denominator between science and religion -- or astronomy and astrology -- you can never say "prove" soundly with ANY inductive method of any kind.  But, I've had direct knowledge/experience of "God" (for lack of a better word), and I can't prove that to you.  It was self-evident.  The thing about evidence-based beliefs is this:  What one knows he cannot prove, and what one can prove he cannot know.

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[RodeoX]

I'm holding an end of the word party in December. But will the world end? Are you fukin kidding me? 

[the joint]

I'm holding an end of the word party in December. But will the world end? Are you fukin kidding me? 

"World ending" is just a dumb phrase in general 

[RodeoX]

I'm holding an end of the word party in December. But will the world end? Are you fukin kidding me? 

"World ending" is just a dumb phrase in general 

That's a good point. The world won't end for.... I don't know, billions of years? Although, that was post #666 for me. Coincidence?

[Max Stirner]

Well, the world could end like this...

Remembering the end of the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGCqcckYvDQ&feature=related

[tinman951]

i cant believe i never heard of this wow

Do you even own a computer?  This has been in the news for 15 years.. But mostly the past 5 because the date is drawing closer.
Maybe the Mayans just got tired of planning thousands of years of calendars.

[chromeguy]

Have watched the movie "2012" months ago. We're almost there. Could this really happen?

Could what really happen, a movie about a cluster of natural disasters?

Go watch the movie.

Or don't, terrible movie.  And no the world isn't gonna end just cause the mayans didn't make an infinite calendar. 

actually, that calendar everyone is banging on about - actually is an AZTEC artifact, and not a calendar, either....

[Swishercutter]

i cant believe i never heard of this wow

Do you even own a computer?  This has been in the news for 15 years.. But mostly the past 5 because the date is drawing closer.
Maybe the Mayans just got tired of planning thousands of years of calendars.

It's been in the news for 12yrs...right after Y2K didn't happen and all the doomsayers needed another unfounded fear to spread. 

(for more info read the link in my previous post)

[GCInc.]

I don't know what's going to happen but I know we live in the most interesting times and more than ever is going on week by week in our world. Look up Terrence McKenna's novelty theory if you want to wind yourselves up a bit more.

[Swishercutter]

I don't know what's going to happen but I know we live in the most interesting times and more than ever is going on week by week in our world. Look up Terrence McKenna's novelty theory if you want to wind yourselves up a bit more.

From Wikipedia:
"Timewave zero" is a numerological formula that purports to calculate the ebb and flow of "novelty", defined as increase over time in the universe's interconnectedness, or organized complexity.[75] According to Terence McKenna, the universe has a teleological attractor at the end of time that increases interconnectedness, eventually reaching a singularity of infinite complexity in 2012, at which point anything and everything imaginable will occur simultaneously. He conceived this idea over several years in the early to mid-1970s while using psilocybin mushrooms and DMT."


From Swishercutter:

"Hallucinations are not to be trusted." 


We will know in December when they come up with another "correction" that they are wrong...just like all the other "prophecies".  There have been people with the end is near signs for quite some time.

[the joint]

I don't know what's going to happen but I know we live in the most interesting times and more than ever is going on week by week in our world. Look up Terrence McKenna's novelty theory if you want to wind yourselves up a bit more.

From Wikipedia:
"Timewave zero" is a numerological formula that purports to calculate the ebb and flow of "novelty", defined as increase over time in the universe's interconnectedness, or organized complexity.[75] According to Terence McKenna, the universe has a teleological attractor at the end of time that increases interconnectedness, eventually reaching a singularity of infinite complexity in 2012, at which point anything and everything imaginable will occur simultaneously. He conceived this idea over several years in the early to mid-1970s while using psilocybin mushrooms and DMT."


From Swishercutter:

"Hallucinations are not to be trusted." 


We will know in December when they come up with another "correction" that they are wrong...just like all the other "prophecies".  There have been people with the end is near signs for quite some time.

While hallucinations are not to be trusted, the relationship between your interpretation of a hallucination and it's effects on your mind/body should be, as this just goes back to self-reflection or introspection.

Whether or not a hallucination is "real" (there are arguments to be made on both ends), it's effects on you are very real in a self-evident kind of way, and you can learn one hell of a lot from this.

[Swishercutter]

I don't know what's going to happen but I know we live in the most interesting times and more than ever is going on week by week in our world. Look up Terrence McKenna's novelty theory if you want to wind yourselves up a bit more.

From Wikipedia:
"Timewave zero" is a numerological formula that purports to calculate the ebb and flow of "novelty", defined as increase over time in the universe's interconnectedness, or organized complexity.[75] According to Terence McKenna, the universe has a teleological attractor at the end of time that increases interconnectedness, eventually reaching a singularity of infinite complexity in 2012, at which point anything and everything imaginable will occur simultaneously. He conceived this idea over several years in the early to mid-1970s while using psilocybin mushrooms and DMT."


From Swishercutter:

"Hallucinations are not to be trusted."  


We will know in December when they come up with another "correction" that they are wrong...just like all the other "prophecies".  There have been people with the end is near signs for quite some time.

While hallucinations are not to be trusted, the relationship between your interpretation of a hallucination and it's effects on your mind/body should be, as this just goes back to self-reflection or introspection.

Whether or not a hallucination is "real" (there are arguments to be made on both ends), it's effects on you are very real in a self-evident kind of way, and you can learn one hell of a lot from this.

Interpretations of hallucinations should never be considered valid basis for what is going to happen 40 years down the road...especially when there is no real evidence of it.  At this point I am hoping for a mass extinction...I just hope it culls the herd in a positive way.


edit:  I will also add this http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/appendix3.html

[Hunterbunter]

Yes, the end is nigh. The movie is true, and the world as you know it will come to an end in December 2012.

Things you can do now to make the transition:

- Encourage your MPs, Senators and Representatives to put money into Research and the Sciences. We need spaceships and arks urgently.
- Join a religious organisation (if you're not already, if you are, be sure to attend weekly) to prepare your soul for the challenges ahead.
- Be kind to as many people as you can, for in troubling times, the effort you make now to improve the lives of others may save your life then.
- Get to know your community and neighbourhood, as they will go through the same challenges as you.
- Share your knowledge freely and to the world, so that others too may be better prepared. It will be lonely without fellow survivors.
- Remain Calm.

[the joint]

I don't know what's going to happen but I know we live in the most interesting times and more than ever is going on week by week in our world. Look up Terrence McKenna's novelty theory if you want to wind yourselves up a bit more.

From Wikipedia:
"Timewave zero" is a numerological formula that purports to calculate the ebb and flow of "novelty", defined as increase over time in the universe's interconnectedness, or organized complexity.[75] According to Terence McKenna, the universe has a teleological attractor at the end of time that increases interconnectedness, eventually reaching a singularity of infinite complexity in 2012, at which point anything and everything imaginable will occur simultaneously. He conceived this idea over several years in the early to mid-1970s while using psilocybin mushrooms and DMT."


From Swishercutter:

"Hallucinations are not to be trusted."  


We will know in December when they come up with another "correction" that they are wrong...just like all the other "prophecies".  There have been people with the end is near signs for quite some time.

While hallucinations are not to be trusted, the relationship between your interpretation of a hallucination and it's effects on your mind/body should be, as this just goes back to self-reflection or introspection.

Whether or not a hallucination is "real" (there are arguments to be made on both ends), it's effects on you are very real in a self-evident kind of way, and you can learn one hell of a lot from this.

Interpretations of hallucinations should never be considered valid basis for what is going to happen 40 years down the road...especially when there is no real evidence of it.  At this point I am hoping for a mass extinction...I just hope it culls the herd in a positive way.


edit:  I will also add this http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/appendix3.html

Unless you recognize the holographic nature of the universe (i.e. because universal syntax/law distributes to everything inside it, everything contained in the universe is like a holographic image of the bigger picture).  This is why truth can be established through ratio, the root word of rationale.  You can learn a lot about the universe just by observing yourself through self-reflection and metacognition.

[yjacket]

I only read through the first and last page but has anyone mentioned the whole Mayan end of the world thing is made up? Yes they didn't extend their calendar beyond 2012, but they didn't mean anything by it- it just had to stop somewhere. The mayans have no mentioning of a doomsday in connection to 2012. 2012 will be the same as every other year- people live, die, the world keeps spinning.

[TheHeroMember]

We'll know once we get there 

[thewebdncr]

This says it all.

http://www.bitcoin-data.com/images/End_of_the_World.jpg

[BadBear]

Bingo.  When you spend enough time looking at the sky, even without a telescope if you aren't presently distracted by all the high tech shit in Western society (live for a few decades in a 3rd world country where there are no city lights clouding the sky), you'll see things a different way.  Mayans, Egyptians, and Sumerians got pretty goddamn accurate with their "astrology" if you ask me.

It's like if I were to say I can't see with my ears.  Ask a blind person.

Please feel free to enlighten us, and try to refrain from analogies like "seeing with your ears".  And don't bring older cultures into it, back in that time period astrology and astronomy were linked and almost interchangeable in their usage.  

At the end of the 17th century, new scientific concepts in astronomy (such as heliocentrism) began to damage the credibility of astrology, which subsequently lost its academic and theoretical standing. Astrology saw a popular revival in the 19th and 20th centuries as part of a general revival of spiritualism and later New Age philosophy, and through the influence of mass media such as newspaper horoscopes.[3]

While astrology may bear a superficial resemblance to science, it is a pseudoscience because it makes little attempt to develop solutions to its problems, shows no concern for the evaluation of competing theories, and is selective in considering confirmations and dis-confirmations

That's not astronomy.  It's astrology, astronomy is science and astrology is voodoo.  

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Also, how do you plan to win a bet proving astrology isn't bogus when astrology itself is a belief system, and can't really be disproven or proven (like religion).  

"Seeing with your ears" was chosen because that's essentially what happens subjectively.  I don't care that ears are not eyes.  Blind people adapt and they begin to use their ears for spatial recognition.  Do you think thoughts are also non-visual experiences?  I don't know about you, but I can see my thoughts clearly and vividly, especially if I focus on them.  Senses are interconnected.  Hold your nose and eat something; I bet it doesn't taste the same.  Or, notice how people turn down the music in their car when they are looking for addresses.  Why would people do this if hearing didn't influence your vision?

I'm not sure why you brought up religion.  I think you were trying to indirectly suggest that religions are based upon no evidence.  Even if that was true (check out East Asian religions, they are extremely scientific), not only is faith still the common denominator between science and religion -- or astronomy and astrology -- you can never say "prove" soundly with ANY inductive method of any kind.  But, I've had direct knowledge/experience of "God" (for lack of a better word), and I can't prove that to you.  It was self-evident.  The thing about evidence-based beliefs is this:  What one knows he cannot prove, and what one can prove he cannot know.

Really?  I ask for how astrology isn't bullshit with no analogies and this is what I get?  More explanations of a dumb analogy and some defense of something I didn't even say?   

[the joint]

Bingo.  When you spend enough time looking at the sky, even without a telescope if you aren't presently distracted by all the high tech shit in Western society (live for a few decades in a 3rd world country where there are no city lights clouding the sky), you'll see things a different way.  Mayans, Egyptians, and Sumerians got pretty goddamn accurate with their "astrology" if you ask me.

It's like if I were to say I can't see with my ears.  Ask a blind person.

Please feel free to enlighten us, and try to refrain from analogies like "seeing with your ears".  And don't bring older cultures into it, back in that time period astrology and astronomy were linked and almost interchangeable in their usage.  

At the end of the 17th century, new scientific concepts in astronomy (such as heliocentrism) began to damage the credibility of astrology, which subsequently lost its academic and theoretical standing. Astrology saw a popular revival in the 19th and 20th centuries as part of a general revival of spiritualism and later New Age philosophy, and through the influence of mass media such as newspaper horoscopes.[3]

While astrology may bear a superficial resemblance to science, it is a pseudoscience because it makes little attempt to develop solutions to its problems, shows no concern for the evaluation of competing theories, and is selective in considering confirmations and dis-confirmations

That's not astronomy.  It's astrology, astronomy is science and astrology is voodoo.  

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Also, how do you plan to win a bet proving astrology isn't bogus when astrology itself is a belief system, and can't really be disproven or proven (like religion).  

"Seeing with your ears" was chosen because that's essentially what happens subjectively.  I don't care that ears are not eyes.  Blind people adapt and they begin to use their ears for spatial recognition.  Do you think thoughts are also non-visual experiences?  I don't know about you, but I can see my thoughts clearly and vividly, especially if I focus on them.  Senses are interconnected.  Hold your nose and eat something; I bet it doesn't taste the same.  Or, notice how people turn down the music in their car when they are looking for addresses.  Why would people do this if hearing didn't influence your vision?

I'm not sure why you brought up religion.  I think you were trying to indirectly suggest that religions are based upon no evidence.  Even if that was true (check out East Asian religions, they are extremely scientific), not only is faith still the common denominator between science and religion -- or astronomy and astrology -- you can never say "prove" soundly with ANY inductive method of any kind.  But, I've had direct knowledge/experience of "God" (for lack of a better word), and I can't prove that to you.  It was self-evident.  The thing about evidence-based beliefs is this:  What one knows he cannot prove, and what one can prove he cannot know.

Really?  I ask for how astrology isn't bullshit with no analogies and this is what I get?  More explanations of a dumb analogy and some defense of something I didn't even say?   

I chose to use an analogy because I can't prove astrology isn't bullshit, nor did I actually claim that it wasn't bullshit.  What I said was that I would bet good money that the core principles of astrology are not bullshit, just as I would bet that the core principles of most world religions are not bullshit.  You're asking for objective proof that astrology isn't bullshit but, in doing so, you are negating the fact that there can be no objective understanding without subjective interpretations.  Moreover, you are negating the fact that it is completely impossible to prove anything with science because it is inductive.  In other words, you are asking for something that cannot happen logically.

And, as I am a person from a Westernized culture, my interpretation of astrological alignments will be vastly different than someone who has no telescope, astronomy book, or internet access -- so will yours.  This simply means that my/your means of understanding is different than the means by which other cultures have attempted to understand.  It does not mean my method is better or that I am smarter. 

My point is that just because the modern-day scientific method wasn't necessarily used for astrological predictions, my guess is that it is likely that many of the astrological assumptions made by these cultures are at least fairly accurate because they were committed to, and believed in, their own means of understanding.  People/cultures who seek, observe, and learn for themselves will be far more intelligent than those who memorize some dumb equation or scientific finding that some other guy made.  Most people either believe in the Big Bang or in Creationism.  Why do they believe that?  Because they heard it from someone else.  When people learn independently, they will see patterns, relationships, and correlations that others will not.

[BadBear]

That's exactly what I was getting at. That's why it's nothing like Astronomy, which is the scientific collection of data about the universe.  Astrology is just an interpretation of that data, based largely on the church.  That's the reason for my mentioning religion earlier, they are very much alike. Of course that basically makes this into an internet religious debate which is one of the worst things ever to do.
http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeIV/astrology.htm

If astrology is a tightrope walk between religion and scientific astronomy, then we already have a first definition. First of all: insofar as it views cosmos, humans, and nature as being reigned over and guided by powers and forces from beyond, astrology is religion. All the events in the cosmos and on earth are linked together by an invisible magic bond. Only on the basis of this mysterious magical connection can astrology assume that the stars have something to do with the course of our lives, with our talents and weaknesses.

In this regard, astrology is related to the nature religions. These also assume that nature is inhabited and governed by magical powers, demons, and gods. Like the nature religions, astrology believes in a multitude of gods; it is polytheistic at its core. Each planet and sign of the zodiac is the expression of a particular god or demon. But astrology is also sometimes accepted by religions which know only one creator-god, like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Then the many star-gods become angels and demons which are subordinated to the one God and, as such, understood as "instruments" of God.