Should There Be Rewards Beyond Merit In The Forum?

[Itz-prisigold]

One of the most significant changes on this forum has been the merit system. It has helped to minimize spam, it also encourage better posting and gave recognition to users that actually contribute something meaningful in the forum. However, recently, I have been asking myself the question is merit still sufficient enough to be a motivating factor?

Don't get me wrong, merit is good. It is an indication that somebody liked your post, and it contributes to ranking up. But what else does it really offer? Most especially to our legendary members, they have reached the highest rank, so they are not chasing rank anymore and i think merit does not seem to be a motivating force for them.

This leads me to the question: do we need any other form of rewards other than merit?

For example:

. Should high quality contributors get more visibility across the forum?

. Should there be special badges or recognition for consistent quality posting?

. Would it be appropriate to give some sort of community recognition to the helpful users in such boards as Beginners and Help or Meta?

. Or even something so basic as the top contributor of the month features?

Currently, the sole actual system of rewards is merit, but being a contributor to a forum can go beyond just receiving merit. There are always some users who will always assist others to report spam, or initiate some useful discussions, but they are not always rewarded accordingly.

[coinlary]

You can check pulse
https://shadowpulse.live

BPIP already given recognition with badges , ranks and so on, unless you mean extra  rank which I think most are against already. The forum itself uses badge.  

Btw you can also install the BPIP Extension if you want to see most of those stuffs directly from users profile. Creating more ranks isn't really a bad idea but there's a discussion about the good and bad side already.
Everyone seem fine with the current isn't it?

[_act_]

BPIP already given recognition with badges , ranks and so on, unless you mean extra  rank which I think most are against already. The forum itself uses badge.

It would be better if it is on this forum directly than using a third party tools like add-ons. I am not implying that BPIP is not good but the real recognition is for it to be on this forum.

I do not think this is what theymos will be planing to do because badges for those that are reporting posts have been proposed before, but it is only possible through third parties. This would have really been good on this forum..

[Emjay24]

One of the most significant changes on this forum has been the merit system. It has helped to minimize spam, it also encourage better posting and gave recognition to users that actually contribute something meaningful in the forum. However, recently, I have been asking myself the question is merit still sufficient enough to be a motivating factor?

Merit works, it's doing it's job of preventing much spammers from ranking up. Those who contribute more meaningfully are recognized in their trust history by reputable members with positive trust and those who behave badly are given negative feedbacks

Don't get me wrong, merit is good. It is an indication that somebody liked your post, and it contributes to ranking up. But what else does it really offer? Most especially to our legendary members, they have reached the highest rank, so they are not chasing rank anymore and i think merit does not seem to be a motivating force for them.

Most of them earn from the forum, either from signature campaigns or special forum provisions or even both, I believe that keeps them motivated. Most users that have really contributed well do rent out their signatures and avatar for custom pay.

. Should there be special badges or recognition for consistent quality posting?

Their trust ratings is an excellent badge, there is still DT, in some cases they're called for special activities in the forum like escrow funds for contests or other activities e.g Igebotz escrowing Charity contributions going on now in the forum, lower recognized persons like you and I may not be trusted to act as one

Currently, the sole actual system of rewards is merit, but being a contributor to a forum can go beyond just receiving merit. There are always some users who will always assist others to report spam, or initiate some useful discussions, but they are not always rewarded accordingly.

Good contributions does not hide, they're always recognized and the forum does that yearly  which the community votes their choice
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5569520.0

[Zaguru12]

Currently, the sole actual system of rewards is merit, but being a contributor to a forum can go beyond just receiving merit. There are always some users who will always assist others to report spam, or initiate some useful discussions, but they are not always rewarded accordingly.

We have had multiple topics on this same debate about whether there should be a new rank higher than legendary or there should be also special badges. At the end of the day it’s actually also going to be obsolete too after many attain such ranks or later and what next we create another badge again?

It’s clear form theymos that the current rank and badges are ok and done for which is ok. So for me if you personally think some one has actually contributed a lot to you on the forum and you find their threads extra helpful then you can actually support or say resounding thank you by donating some bitcoins to them.

Yes there are seriously some people who have contributed a lot to the forum but how do we appreciate them. I think that’s why the end of the year awards. You can vote for them in different category to show that you appreciate their efforts on the forum.

[MisFoxie]

Nothing can be done. Merit system isn't working for some group of peoples. They misuse merit system but no one can give justice to them because there is no rule for it and when someone ask questions they avoide by saying they liked the post that's why they gave merits not because the post was qualitiful. No mater what changes done people will always find loopholes

Also if there are many rules and ranks forum won't be a forum anymore. Those who post qualitiful content they always gets respected.

[Itz-prisigold]

BPIP already given recognition with badges , ranks and so on, unless you mean extra  rank which I think most are against already. The forum itself uses badge.

It would be better if it is on this forum directly than using a third party tools like add-ons. I am not implying that BPIP is not good but the real recognition is for it to be on this forum.

I do not think this is what theymos will be planing to do because badges for those that are reporting posts have been proposed before, but it is only possible through third parties. This would have really been good on this forum..

That is exactly what I mean, external tools such as BPIP can be helpful, but they are not a part of the forum as such, everyone do pays attention to them, thus the recognition does not actually feel the same.

And I do agree with you, it does not really seem like something theymos is planing to introduce, particularly because similar ideas such as reporter badges have been proposed previously and have not made any progress.

I still believe it is worth discussing, because even though nothing may change overnight, it can serve to point out that users value recognition beyond just merit, sometimes these ideas take time before they are considered seriously.

[UchihaSarada]

It is an indication that somebody liked your post

Merit is not like "Like".
If you use merit like a Like, it's wrong use.
If anyone sent you merit because they liked your posts, it's can possible a wrong use too. Merit is for a good post, not for a shitpost you like.

Merit & new rank requirements

I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
 - Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

. Should high quality contributors get more visibility across the forum?

Quality contributors focus on their posts, contributions, and their values will be seen by the community. It's an unofficial forum-wide visibility for top quality posters.

Currently, the sole actual system of rewards is merit, but being a contributor to a forum can go beyond just receiving merit. There are always some users who will always assist others to report spam, or initiate some useful discussions, but they are not always rewarded accordingly.

Having freedom to join the forum is already a reward, a privilege, not a right.

There are reporter badges if you use script.
[Userscript] Unofficial Bitcointalk Reporter Badges

Or do you want something more like this
New new rank requirements.

[noorman0]

Not necessarily.
However, the forum does not restrict members' initiative to award or reward directly to anyone on the forum. For example,
- icopress holds an annual community awards ceremony
- apogio makes donations

If you feel it's necessary, just go ahead and do it according to your idea.

[coinlary]

BPIP already given recognition with badges , ranks and so on, unless you mean extra  rank which I think most are against already. The forum itself uses badge.

It would be better if it is on this forum directly than using a third party tools like add-ons. I am not implying that BPIP is not good but the real recognition is for it to be on this forum.
~snip~

That is exactly what I mean, external tools such as BPIP can be helpful, but they are not a part of the forum as such, everyone do pays attention to them, thus the recognition does not actually feel the same.
~snip~

@ _act_  @ Itz-prisigold
I understand what you meant but after my thread about the forum theme https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5579080.msg66571286 I've come to realise a lot on why adding more features might be a bad idea.

Theymos can add anything if he's sure it won't break or leave a loop but the SMF is old itself and after the current version we are still using there have been a lot of vulnerabilities patched over the years in the newer versions. Despite all that there are lots of hacks on SMF forums.

We have a lot added already and adding more and more could eventually lead to something bad.

Between the forum getting hacked or using some third party tools I think everyone will agree to just using the third party tools.

[Hatchy]

Merit works, it's doing it's job of preventing much spammers from ranking up. Those who contribute more meaningfully are recognized in their trust history by reputable members with positive trust and those who behave badly are given negative feedbacks

Really? I still see a lot of spammers ranking up, not necessarily because they earned it but as we know from their merit farms. P.s the trust ratings are not given because you contribute to the forum meaningfully, they are earned when members of the forum trust you as a person to deal with. That description of yours looks a little bit off.

Don't get me wrong, merit is good. It is an indication that somebody liked your post, and it contributes to ranking up. But what else does it really offer? Most especially to our legendary members, they have reached the highest rank, so they are not chasing rank anymore and i think merit does not seem to be a motivating force for them.

There used to be a time on the forum where signature campaign paid rates according to how high your merits was. Aside from that though once you attain the highest rank on the forum most members see no use earning merits. But earning merits should not be only so you could rank up, it shows how useful you are to the forum.

[dkbit98]

No, we don't need that.
Bitcointalk forum is about bitcoin discussion, not about getting rewards.
More quality members and topics will naturally be on top and followed more by other members.
Lower quality members you can always ignore and hide, and having merits is more than enough.

[Obim34]

This leads me to the question: do we need any other form of rewards other than merit?

I don't think theymos is planning any other reward system than the merit system for good contribution, it can be community oriented and organized, just like we have the Bitcointalk Community Award with prizes or we have donation by apogio who rewards constructive posts.

[notocactus]

This leads me to the question: do we need any other form of rewards other than merit?

What we need is something like demerit.

There is currently no such thing as a "demerit". I'm hoping that the positive merits alone will be fine. I could add demerits pretty easily later on if necessary, though.

Currently, the sole actual system of rewards is merit, but being a contributor to a forum can go beyond just receiving merit.

Legends even did not need merit to contribute to the forum years ago, and merit system was launched only because of spamming in the forum escalated to very high annoying unacceptable level in 2017 and 2018.

From Ideas for improving post quality? and eventually we had the merit system kick off in January 2018.

There are always some users who will always assist others to report spam, or initiate some useful discussions, but they are not always rewarded accordingly.

Forum needs demerit source applications against bad merit sources and official demerit too.

• LoyceV's deMerit source application
• Merit source unapplication
• SmartGold01 merit source or farmer?

In the past, theymos de-merited merit transactions from a merit source that abused the source. Likely it's Question Authority, but let me check and confirm it.

Usernames to go with theymos' data
Sample
0: deMerit (Bitcoin Forum) (history) earned: 0 Merit

For users who are curious about the -44 merit transaction, there are 17 transactions like that (with negative amount of merit), according to the last Friday merit data dump by theymos.

Details:

Code:

        cat |      Freq.     Percent        Cum.
------------+-----------------------------------
  neg merit |         17        0.00        0.00
  pos merit |    369,275      100.00      100.00
------------+-----------------------------------
      Total |    369,292      100.00

For negative merit transactions only

Code:

     amount |      Freq.     Percent        Cum.
------------+-----------------------------------
        -44 |          1        5.88        5.88
        -10 |          5       29.41       35.29
         -9 |          2       11.76       47.06
         -8 |          1        5.88       52.94
         -7 |          1        5.88       58.82
         -5 |          2       11.76       70.59
         -4 |          1        5.88       76.47
         -2 |          3       17.65       94.12
         -1 |          1        5.88      100.00
------------+-----------------------------------
      Total |         17      100.00

There are some very special cases that get demerit activities from theymos

Code:

        +----------------------------------------+
        | sent_userid   received_userid   amount |
        |----------------------------------------|
 32111. |           0           1724596      -44 |
216598. |           0             92110       -2 |
216599. |           0             81995       -5 |
216600. |           0           1316028       -2 |
216601. |           0            290351       -9 |
        |----------------------------------------|
216602. |           0            289011       -1 |
216603. |           0            249872       -9 |
216604. |           0            249436       -7 |
216605. |           0            165478       -8 |
216606. |           0              9645       -2 |
        |----------------------------------------|
216607. |           0            358020      -10 |
216608. |           0             15728      -10 |
216609. |           0           2536607      -10 |
216610. |           0           1246188       -4 |
216611. |           0            355462      -10 |
        |----------------------------------------|
216612. |           0             92110      -10 |
216613. |           0           2472107       -5 |
        +----------------------------------------+

Since it was a large amount and a clear-cut case, I deleted those merit sends.

I'm not going to do reversals on mere abuse.

[Lucius]

~snip~
This leads me to the question: do we need any other form of rewards other than merit?

I hear the forum is sitting on a pile of unused coins, so why not use them for some good cause - say, 1 BTC to all active members who have been active for 10 years in a row

Considering the amount that was thrown at the new forum project, which completely failed, why not reward the forum veterans so they can retire on a well-deserved note?

[SuperBitMan]

OP which other Reward do you want in a forum like this, I think the reward people who are contributing very well is this forum is getting is just okay.
Icopress usually organize Bitcointalk community awards and this award goes to the bests in the forum and again it’s your good contribution in the forum that will make you a reputable member in the forum and when you are a reputable member you will be rewarded with a lot of great opportunities in the forum for example signature campaigns that pays the highest are usually being occupied by reputable members that contribute positively to the forum, and this set of people gain trust and can get good amount of money from those giving out loans, they do escrow service and get paid too, all this and many more are reward that your good contribution and good reputation can give you in bitcointalk forum.

I ask which other rewards do you want from a forum like this? If you are expecting to get paid for your contribution in a forum like this then what you need is to start content creation in facebook or X because your contribution through content creating will lead to them paying you some money over there.

[The Cryptovator]

Don't get me wrong, merit is good. It is an indication that somebody liked your post, and it contributes to ranking up. But what else does it really offer? Most especially to our legendary members, they have reached the highest rank, so they are not chasing rank anymore and i think merit does not seem to be a motivating force for them.

There are rewards for higher ranks if you can gain a lot of merits. For contribution to the forum, if you can earn over 8000 merits, then you would choose a custom username. I believe this is the biggest reward for high-rank users. Otherwise, it has been discussed a couple of times on the forum. From the admin sides, it seems they aren't interested in implementing something else right now.

Merit is considered for the quality post, not always based on your rank. Higher ranks still would have merits on their profile; it does increase the value of the profile definitely. I am also not interested in implementing something else because, due to the merit system, it's already very hard to rank up. If something else were implemented, then it would be harder to rank up for low-rank users. It's pretty simple: if high-ranked users stop contributing, then they will not receive merits, and their profile values will be lower.

[yahoo62278]

Good contributions does not hide, they're always recognized and the forum does that yearly  which the community votes their choice
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5569520.0

I strongly disagree. That is just a glorified popularity contest IMO. It's fun for the community to participate in and I think the community enjoys it.

Users are definitely recognized via merits, some users are added to trust lists as they have demonstrated good judgement and have shown to be trustworthy, others like LoyceV have tons of information threads that people reference when others have a question which IMO is a great way to recognize a persons contribution to the forum.

At the end of the day, most of the well respected could care less about the pat on the back recognition, but the guys trying to come up are looking for a pat on the back. Do they really need it? You do good, you act accordingly, you help out where you can, you'll be known as a good user. Simple really.

[Findingnemo]

There are rewards for higher ranks if you can gain a lot of merits. For contribution to the forum, if you can earn over 8000 merits, then you would choose a custom username. I believe this is the biggest reward for high-rank users.

Is that true? I never saw anything about that, so if anyone knows where it's mentioned, then I would like you to redirect me there.

I know the admin changes the usernames of the forum members based on the requests, but it is usually done when there is a reason to do it, and not based on how many merits they have.

[Ambatman]

Don't get me wrong, merit is good. It is an indication that somebody liked your post, and it contributes to ranking up. But what else does it really offer? Most especially to our legendary members, they have reached the highest rank, so they are not chasing rank anymore and i think merit does not seem to be a motivating force for them.

I believe this is a discussion forum
And what should come first it's practically having S discussion
Not chasing ranks or golden stars.
These are/ should be secondary.

Should there be special badges or recognition for consistent quality posting?

And who decides and determine who deserves such badge
Quality sometimes is subjective and people have different interest.


I believe many have built their perception of users they consider worth reading their post

And reward? Maybe since this is a Bitcoin forum it should be Bitcoins
But humans are good are taking advantage of things or movement that were supposed to be positive.