Something is going on with cross border payments

[suzanne5223]

The major reason the Brazilian central bank banned regulated cross‑border payment channels that use Bitcoin and altcoin is because of their concerns about oversight of taxation, money laundering, and monetary sovereignty.
The most targeted platform was the electronic foreign exchange and crypto payment platform. However, they didnt didn't ban crypto, though.

There is a huge increase in the usage of electronic foreign exchange and crypto payment platforms in Brazil, while the government seems not to be getting the required tax funds.

Are there no other ways to monitor cross-border trade than an outright ban? I don't like when the government makes generalised polices without considering the effect on businesses. Some businesses rely on cryptocurrencies for cross-border payment due to its fastness, low transaction fees and flexibility. The law should have promoted strict KYC for cross-border transactions instead of a total ban. Many businesses might be hurt by this ban.

Of course, there's always a way to go about it, is what we see is not the reason why a centralized platform was not advised
The government is known for taking a restrictive step to showcase its power before going for the main solution to things, and I believe the Brazilian Central Bank is following the same step used in places like Singapore, the EU (MiCA), the UAE, and some parts of the US states, where crypto is regulated for cross-border payment with heavy compliance.

The major reason the Brazilian central bank banned regulated cross‑border payment channels that use Bitcoin and altcoin is because of their concerns about oversight of taxation, money laundering, and monetary sovereignty.
The most targeted platform was the electronic foreign exchange and crypto payment platform. However, they didnt didn't ban crypto, though.

There is a huge increase in the usage of electronic foreign exchange and crypto payment platforms in Brazil, while the government seems not to be getting the required tax funds.

Banning cross-border crypto payments will not solve Brazil's tax evasion, money laundering, or monetary sovereignty concerns. These problem has been in existence before crypto and still persist through traditional channels regardless of regulatory restrictions.

On money laundering specifically  bad actors have always found ways to move money across borders. Crypto is not the enabler, we all know their weak institutional oversight is the primary challenge. Until Brazil addresses corruption within its own regulatory and financial leadership, they will keep pointing fingers on crypto whereas the main issue lies within their corrupt practices.

Although I did not mention it up to that level, but that is what I guessed. If you make use of their fiat, they believe tax will be harder to evade, money laundering can be reduced and so on.

I am so sick of some governments around the world, including what Canada is planning to with with bitcoin ATMs. If it is their fiat that is used for money laundering, tax evasion (and which is happening) and other forms of crime,  they will not ban their own fiat, but look for ways to make sure such is not happening again or reduce, yet it is still happening and no ban if their fiat.

Let's wake to the fact that the government never supported Bitcoin and crypto because they have enthusiasm for its technology or its benefits. They do so because the only way they can be in charge, or have some power to control, is to be in the space, which is what they have been doing from the one and their plan on CBDC.
According to what i read, the Brazilian Central Bank claims it's the supervisory visibility, while the crypto market in Brazil is getting significant stablecoin volume, which raises illicit finance and tax evasion concerns, is the reason for their ban cause it's harder to track flows in realtime i wonder why anyone will make this statement despite the public ledger of most cryptocurrencies.

[dezoel]

I would say that if there are companies that are allowed, with KYC, then things could become a lot easier. I mean you could literally have KYC, and if people do get some crypto into their account, the government would be informed, and they can ask anyone they want where they got that money from.

Same happens in my nation, I do get paid, and every time I do get paid, I also pay taxes as well and things are looking quite good for me, there is nothing that would be all that crazy, it's a very simple method.

[Zaguru12]

I would say that if there are companies that are allowed, with KYC, then things could become a lot easier. I mean you could literally have KYC, and if people do get some crypto into their account, the government would be informed, and they can ask anyone they want where they got that money from.

If you read the OP post I think the banned platforms are those regulated companies which means that it’s all this KYC platforms that actually are regulated, so it’s not maybe they banned it since people are using non KYC and they want to force them back to using KYC platform. What I deduce from this according this thread is that the government have seen that cryptocurrency as a mean of payment is actually gaining more ground than their local currency and this is a move simply to force people to use their own currency and not any other currency. This is outrightly the same jealousy that has long been in existence between the government and the evolution of cryptocurrency.

[TastyChillySauce00]

Are there no other ways to monitor cross-border trade than an outright ban? I don't like when the government makes generalised polices without considering the effect on businesses. Some businesses rely on cryptocurrencies for cross-border payment due to its fastness, low transaction fees and flexibility. The law should have promoted strict KYC for cross-border transactions instead of a total ban. Many businesses might be hurt by this ban.

Apparently they doesn't seem to care about giving business some way around but instead giving an outright ban. They could've easily let the businesses register and impose KYC especially for customers from Brazil since the government wants to avoid AML and tax oversight. As it happens, Brazil wants the business to adapt to their rules and with this total ban, they don't want to give anymore explanation. Hope they will change their mind in the future.

[jaberwock]

Banning cross-border crypto payments will not solve Brazil's tax evasion, money laundering, or monetary sovereignty concerns. These problem has been in existence before crypto and still persist through traditional channels regardless of regulatory restrictions.

Their efforts aren't to eliminate all the crimes you mention, they're simply preventing their growth. Their first option is clearly to eliminate payment services that aren't directly affiliated with the monetary system and don't contribute much to their revenue. It's unlikely they'd need to ban their local banks from operating in a similar manner.

As long as both sides are not registered and you know %100 for sure who is sending the money and who is receiving the money, then you can't let people do cross border payments. As a government, it is your duty to make sure that everyone does as well as they could, but also abide by the law as well.

If you do not do that, then what are the chances that you are going to survive this? We are talking about something that will not be good at all, we will end up with a big loss, and that is not going to be easy. Governments have to make sure, they are doing their best, to prevent any crimes.

[safar1980]

Russia has more sanctions than Brazil, but many services accept cryptocurrency payments because banks can't transfer money to other countries. There are many VPN services online that accept direct cryptocurrency payments. If your government has decided to ban you from using cryptocurrency, look for other options.

[BitBrainers]

The Russia example is the most honest case study we have right now. Sanctions that would have completely isolated a country financially a decade ago are now partially routed around through crypto and VPNs. That does not make it comfortable or easy. But it proves the base layer works exactly as designed when the traditional system closes its doors.

[el kaka22]

Not allowing this because of money laundering is fine. But if you do work with other nations, you could literally get rid of this if you want to, there is nothing wrong with that. I understand that countries and governments are worried about it, and they are right if you do nothing about it then it can be abused for money laundering.

But if you work together with some nations, then it can be done cross border payment with those nations, because that way, everyone will know exactly where the money comes from. KYC is happening all around the world, so if you are lets say in Mexico, and buy bitcoin via some exchange that you gave our KYC to, and then send money to someone in USA who receives it on a exchange they shared their KYC to, then we know everything about the people already.

[AVE5]

Some days ago I was trying to purchase some items using Bitpay services and I can't log into my Bitpay accoun, I already passed their KYC verification in the past even though I don't want to, but right now that's the only option I have left.

I noticed that they intentionally don't want to give me access and after I messaged them they told me that they are sorry that my country is now on the list of those they aren't ready to give their services to.

Something I have used many times to pay for several things like data, VPN, and others.

I bet we don't see this coming especially from such a country as Brazil which used to be a very crypto friendly country.
Same time,  I'm not surprised that this regulatory framework has been introduced and strictly tight that challenges the cross border monetary transaction because when it comes to the custodian networks any regulating policies can be possibly implemented.
The good thing is that such regulations won't be effective when using the non custodian network.
This should also entail the risks of using the regulating platforms could be frustrating with the authorities amending and readjusting their rules.

[Smartvirus]

I noticed that they intentionally don't want to give me access and after I messaged them they told me that they are sorry that my country is now on the list of those they aren't ready to give their services to.

Something I have used many times to pay for several things like data, VPN, and others.

These regulations do exist on certain CEX, given that, they operate within the confines of a jurisdiction and has to abide by its laws.

I remember a time when Binance was the most used exchange in my country, almost all crypto related transactions was done through Binance and then the government saw it for to come for them with business registry, tax fraud and whatever they could come up with to not only discredit their service but create a steep policy that would make it difficult for them to operate.

Still, citizens would find a way and the most common one is using VPN.

[sunsilk]

It seems that most of these countries and platforms are really concerned with money laundering.

They're giving it as a reason why they're banning such services and with the use of crypto, they think that it's only happening there.

Looking at the other payment processors as well, they could give them a red flag as well. Well, too many regulators have been so strict with their protocol if it's about these transactions.

We even see exchanges are forced to delist privacy coins for the same reasons.

[BitBrainers]

We even see exchanges are forced to delist privacy coins for the same reasons.

That is the clearest signal of where this is heading. When regulators pressure exchanges to delist privacy coins, they are not targeting criminals. Criminals use cash, shell companies, and real estate. They are targeting the idea that ordinary people can transact without being observed. Bitcoin is not a privacy coin but it is next in line the moment its traceability becomes inconvenient for the wrong government at the wrong time. Self custody and non-custodial tools are not paranoia. They are the only hedge that actually works.

[sunsilk]

We even see exchanges are forced to delist privacy coins for the same reasons.

That is the clearest signal of where this is heading. When regulators pressure exchanges to delist privacy coins, they are not targeting criminals. Criminals use cash, shell companies, and real estate. They are targeting the idea that ordinary people can transact without being observed. Bitcoin is not a privacy coin but it is next in line the moment its traceability becomes inconvenient for the wrong government at the wrong time. Self custody and non-custodial tools are not paranoia. They are the only hedge that actually works.

Yes, there are other ways where they can launder money. While it can be a valid reason why they are targeting crypto.

But, it's all that they can see - crypto. In reality, there's so much areas and investments where they can drop their so much money where they can hide it.

As bitcoin being pseudonymous, they're making their jobs easier to at least send a message to those who's got bad intention of doing such activities through banning or restricting people from using it.

[Jewan420]

As bitcoin being pseudonymous, they're making their jobs easier to at least send a message to those who's got bad intention of doing such activities through banning or restricting people from using it.

There are many people who target crypto currency to whiten their black money. They invest in Bitcoin and try to whiten their money. There are many big company owners who use this method to legalize their illegal money. In fact, they know that the government has no hand in crypto. And the government will never even see how they invested or bought shares with their money.

If caught, they have created a system to hide illegal money. There are many dishonest businessmen who keep their money in crypto to avoid government taxes or income taxes. They are doing many things using this Bitcoin transaction process that we may not know about.

[BitBrainers]

As bitcoin being pseudonymous, they're making their jobs easier to at least send a message to those who's got bad intention of doing such activities through banning or restricting people from using it.

The pseudonymous argument is valid but it cuts both ways. Every Bitcoin transaction is permanently recorded on a public ledger. Chain analysis firms like Chainalysis can trace flows with high accuracy. The irony is that Bitcoin is actually one of the worst tools for serious money laundering precisely because of its transparency. Cash, real estate, and shell companies remain far more effective. The regulatory pressure on crypto is less about stopping crime and more about maintaining visibility over where value moves. That is a different conversation entirely.

[sunsilk]

As bitcoin being pseudonymous, they're making their jobs easier to at least send a message to those who's got bad intention of doing such activities through banning or restricting people from using it.

There are many people who target crypto currency to whiten their black money. They invest in Bitcoin and try to whiten their money. There are many big company owners who use this method to legalize their illegal money. In fact, they know that the government has no hand in crypto. And the government will never even see how they invested or bought shares with their money.

If caught, they have created a system to hide illegal money. There are many dishonest businessmen who keep their money in crypto to avoid government taxes or income taxes. They are doing many things using this Bitcoin transaction process that we may not know about.

That can be true but it's not only bitcoin specifically that they're doing it to clear their money if that's coming from illegal.

It just so happen that bitcoin is liquid and the volume isn't dropping which is in their favor that they can convert it from fiat <> btc.

As bitcoin being pseudonymous, they're making their jobs easier to at least send a message to those who's got bad intention of doing such activities through banning or restricting people from using it.

The pseudonymous argument is valid but it cuts both ways. Every Bitcoin transaction is permanently recorded on a public ledger. Chain analysis firms like Chainalysis can trace flows with high accuracy. The irony is that Bitcoin is actually one of the worst tools for serious money laundering precisely because of its transparency. Cash, real estate, and shell companies remain far more effective. The regulatory pressure on crypto is less about stopping crime and more about maintaining visibility over where value moves. That is a different conversation entirely.

I agree with that. If tools from the likes of chainalysis is being done and hired, it's possible that many of their money launderers will be caught.

But they're not really chasing them, they just want to stop and say things as if it's really their concern.

[Lucius]

~snip~
I strongly advise against trusting strangers like this, if you know any alternative that works you can drop the name, I can't find any that allows crypto payment without the help of Bitpay, thanks.

Virtual crypto cards? It's a relatively simple and efficient way to convert crypto to fiat and pay online or at POS devices. Of course, there are dozens of such cards and it's not easy to choose one that has decent fees and works as it should. I've been using them for a long time, so I have some favorites that I can recommend to you - send me a PM if you're interested.

[Hamza2424]

I noticed that they intentionally don't want to give me access and after I messaged them they told me that they are sorry that my country is now on the list of those they aren't ready to give their services to.

Something I have used many times to pay for several things like data, VPN, and others.

It is unfortunate for you and others who are suffering from such decisions by governments, but maybe they have some larger plan, like trying to change the system. They may have failed to patch the old one and are now introducing a new one, but I am not fully updated on the latest developments. So far, I have heard two or three negative news items like this one coming from Brazil.

Even if they have talked about strategic reserves, shared plans, and even allowed their police and authorities to use seized BTC for their operations, they are now also restricting people from using their hard earned money.

We need more platforms that don't require KYC and work better than BitPay, because there will always be demand for such projects.

[STT]

Brazil wants you to use their currency which is being operated with inflation as a tax.   This isn't the first time or last a country will try to block any alternatives to their system of debt and money printing as taxation.  Surprised it took them this long to be blocking people, certainly they can make it inconvenient to choose any alternative system of value but they'll never be able to stop all forms of trading value that is superior to a failed currency.

I was just arguing this with someone, they say you control people by banning their choices and making laws to prevent them considering a normal task anywhere else in the world as valid, so control your population like robots.   For starters that doesn't even work and second its an awful way to run a country, it'll never be a success if you have to threaten people constantly to agree with you & that's not a real economy or even fair system of law.

[Somegory]

I would say that if there are companies that are allowed, with KYC, then things could become a lot easier. I mean you could literally have KYC, and if people do get some crypto into their account, the government would be informed, and they can ask anyone they want where they got that money from.

Same happens in my nation, I do get paid, and every time I do get paid, I also pay taxes as well and things are looking quite good for me, there is nothing that would be all that crazy, it's a very simple method.

KYC isn't the problem at all, because I passed KYC, there is more than meet thee eye here, they never asked for any information that I wasn't able to provide, it felt as if they don't want to render such services for people who are far away in other countries.

I asked a brother in the US, been African he is still able to use Bitpay right inside US Alabama, this means that if you aren't operating Bitpay from inside US they won't allow you to use their services.

This is nothing but same hatred for other part of the world unless they are benefitting from those countries for them to be able to render them such services, it's a hatred world we living in.