Additional ideas to tackle spam on BTT

[lovesmayfamilis]

Maybe it's because both the administrator and the forum moderators have a different view of what a forum is. So they don't see spam and more spam in posts that aren't the pages of a doctoral dissertation, but rather a place where people talk about things just as ordinary people might talk in a plaza or a bar.

That's right, these kinds of discussions, which would seem to look like a company sitting at the same table, are always fascinating and interesting. We need to admit that we have already heard a lot of repetitive "important" information (which users feel compelled to post) many times, and reading dry, scientific formulations is not only boring, but it also makes us sleepy.. Therefore, you are right: dissertations are not interesting, but people's approach to expressing their opinions is interesting. Some users can be recognized without even reading their nicknames. That's how I've always imagined live communication on the forum, even if it's not always friendly, since we're all people with our own characters and emotions. But sitting for hours deciding to publish a post that should be paid for will come across as insincere, even considering that we are always responsible for our words.

[Rikafip]

Maybe it's because both the administrator and the forum moderators have a different view of what a forum is. So they don't see spam and more spam in posts that aren't the pages of a doctoral dissertation, but rather a place where people talk about things just as ordinary people might talk in a plaza or a bar.

That's the thing, a lot of people here don't talk like they do in a plaza or a bar. Or on any other (non) paying forum.

You will seldom see any of those sig banned members writing 1 short sentence post or generally variety in post length, but instead you will most likely see generic 4-5 lines posts over and over and over again, trying to hide meaningless in character count. You peg me as someone (like me) who had a lot of experience on other forums before coming here, and I'm sure you will agree that this isn't how people post elsewhere.

In the end, if forum staff don't think that spam/low quality posts are a problem, why sig ban initiative in the first place?

No, I specifically mean posts like these that I found in 5 minutes:
If we reported these, the forum would be a better place - while still fully respecting the freedom of speech.

Its funny really. If you reported those kind of posts, they won't be deleted (I know because I tried, and even worse than those you shared). But if someone's post history consists mainly of those kind of posts, he will get 1 year sig ban as an attempt to make him wrote fewer of those kind of posts.

edit: I also wonder how many managers would refuse to pay for those 2 posts.

[libert19]

Just like igebotz, I wouldn't also say paid pools are spam-free, because spam could somehow be relative. Someone who do no thoroughly understand what is discussed would mistake many posts to be spam. But paid pools are the most decent threads in the gambling board.

I say, all paid pools should be self-mod, I am sure op would know what's spam and what's not; outsiders view is irrelevant.

The problem with self-moderation is that it's not always well-regarded by most people.

Yes, it will help keep spammers away, but it may also drive away those who think that self-moderation is a way of stifling opinion or criticism.

This doesn't mean that everyone who uses self-moderation has this objective; what I'm saying is that it's often perceived that way.

Well, all responses are archived on loyce.club and on bitlist, so not really, is it? One who feels he has been wronged can always tag with ref to archived link, so user can refer to tag and understand what's up and judge the op.

But I think if we look closely at a very specific sector, which is paid pools, that sector is perhaps the one that, by nature, suffers the least from spam. Does it get lost among all the other topics? I don't think so, because if a pool is active, it will always be on the list of the first topics.

It's true that there are a good number of pool topics, but I also don't think they deserve a child board. Unless the idea is to stop having mega-topics pools.

Pool topics are niche topics, therefore it's easy for 'em to get lost due to other newly created topics and bumps (which are far too many). Is it right for one of better threads in board (as in main board — Gambling board) to get lost in myriad of garbage?

^ Solution, divorce from the garbage.

[MarryWithBTC]

On the other hand, we should all be more proactive in reporting posts that are spam. Whether the moderator then does something about it or not is another matter.

Perhaps the biggest culprits behind so much spam are ourselves, as users of this platform. Not because we do it, but because we don't report it. We've become so accustomed to seeing posts without value that we unconsciously end up ignoring them instead of clicking the "report" button.

This is the first hand solution designed to curb spamming imo. The second solution is likely the merit system.

I think post deletion can work well in reducing spam if taken seriously, this is because I have seen some people rant in the meta board with full blown anger because their posts were deleted. So, if post deletion could be so painful, a spammer will be forced to improve when almost all their posts are deleted.

Because think about it: if those users who post 95% spam see their posts deleted, all their work will have been in vain. If posts are deleted, they don't count towards the campaign, so they don't get paid for them.

I'm speaking against myself here, I need to improve, but I think we should all report posts we consider spam or of low value more often.

I suggest two things here;
1. There should be an incentive for making an x number of good reports. It could be award of merits or smerits. It could be rewarding the person with 14 days of moderation power etc
2. There should be increased moderation, by introducing assistant/jnr moderators whose duty will just be to delete reported spam

[Rikafip]

1. There should be an incentive for making an x number of good reports. It could be award of merits or smerits. It could be rewarding the person with 14 days of moderation power etc

Rest assured, this would be abused. People would use alt accounts to spam and then use their main accounts to report the spam and gain whatever incentive there is. Even if it's something trivial.

After all, lack of reports is not the problem, but mods imo being too lenient which makes members reluctant to bother with it.

[Supreme Donvic]

Signature campaign contributes but it's not the absolute cause of spam in the forum. Spamming to be is like a behavior that cannot be changed easily. A spammer might not even know that he's a spammer and a good poster in some certain conditions could spam.

but I think we should all report posts we consider spam or of low value more often.

I believe people in this forum are already doing that constantly, the issue is that some post you will report to mod won't be deleted, maybe because they feel those posts are not spam, I believe mods in this forum wants people to actually post freely or maybe what some of us see as spam is not a spam to them.
I'm not saying the mods are not trying, but if we most have an effective report and delete case in this forum, we need to agree on standard of posts that are spam or not and then stand by it. It will be a consensus.


~Supreme

[MarryWithBTC]

1. There should be an incentive for making an x number of good reports. It could be award of merits or smerits. It could be rewarding the person with 14 days of moderation power etc

Rest assured, this would be abused. People would use alt accounts to spam and then use their main accounts to report the spam and gain whatever incentive there is. Even if it's something trivial.

I didn't think it this way.

I agree with you that it will be abused, almost everything is just abusable in the forum.

After all, lack of reports is not the problem, but mods imo being too lenient which makes members reluctant to bother with it.

I believe mods are reading, they will have to step up unless the process of deleting posts is rigorous

[libert19]

1. There should be an incentive for making an x number of good reports. It could be award of merits or smerits. It could be rewarding the person with 14 days of moderation power etc

Rest assured, this would be abused. People would use alt accounts to spam and then use their main accounts to report the spam and gain whatever incentive there is. Even if it's something trivial.

Precisely. Every new mechanism added will come with their own weaknesses that will surely be exploited. It's far more important to see through the mechanics intricacies and how they can be abused than quickly implement 'em seeing at the benefits.

I don't think any mechanism can be completely abuse free, but make those chances as less as possible.

[joker_josue]

Signature campaign contributes but it's not the absolute cause of spam in the forum. Spamming to be is like a behavior that cannot be changed easily. A spammer might not even know that he's a spammer and a good poster in some certain conditions could spam.

but I think we should all report posts we consider spam or of low value more often.

I believe people in this forum are already doing that constantly, the issue is that some post you will report to mod won't be deleted, maybe because they feel those posts are not spam, I believe mods in this forum wants people to actually post freely or maybe what some of us see as spam is not a spam to them.
I'm not saying the mods are not trying, but if we most have an effective report and delete case in this forum, we need to agree on standard of posts that are spam or not and then stand by it. It will be a consensus.


~Supreme

In a way, that's the point.

It reminds me of when I studied fine arts. We had a motto that served as a question: "Art is whatever the artist says it is. Now, what is an artist?"

In that case, the question remains: what constitutes spam here on the forum?
I think we can all point to different things that we consider to be spam. Therefore, it will be necessary to create a basic standard to help this entire process. But I recognize that achieving this kind of standard, even a basic one, is difficult to attain.

[Ultegra134]

I believe people in this forum are already doing that constantly, the issue is that some post you will report to mod won't be deleted, maybe because they feel those posts are not spam, I believe mods in this forum wants people to actually post freely or maybe what some of us see as spam is not a spam to them.
I'm not saying the mods are not trying, but if we most have an effective report and delete case in this forum, we need to agree on standard of posts that are spam or not and then stand by it. It will be a consensus.

~Supreme

I've personally reported hundreds of posts, with quite a few of them being in the gambling board, in which I was also quite active but not anymore, and one reason being the amount of spam there is (along with me not being as active in the forum in general). The main issue is that there are signature campaigns that are practically promoting spamming in such sections; see minimum requirement of 10 posts, or/and petty bonuses for posting in the gambling board. Especially the latter, there's a certain group of people who're actively abusing it, creating as many posts they can for the bonus; if that's 20 posts, 20, 30, 30, doesn't matter the amount, they'll do it, even if it is 60 posts.

[Free Market Capitalist]

Maybe it's because both the administrator and the forum moderators have a different view of what a forum is. So they don't see spam and more spam in posts that aren't the pages of a doctoral dissertation, but rather a place where people talk about things just as people on the street might talk in a plaza or a bar.

No, I specifically mean posts like these that I found in 5 minutes:

...

If we reported these, the forum would be a better place - while still fully respecting the freedom of speech.

Since you posted those quotes, you might as well have included the link. I would have reported them. I highly doubt those posts wouldn't have been deleted.

But sitting for hours deciding to publish a post that should be paid for will come across as insincere, even considering that we are always responsible for our words.

That's the thing, a lot of people here don't talk like they do in a plaza or a bar. Or on any other (non) paying forum.

What I mean is that if you report a post you think is spam and it gets marked as bad or remains unhandled, it could be an exception or the moderator might have made a mistake. But if you report a lot of posts as spam and they’re marked as bad, then it’s likely that you’re the one with standards that are too high for what the forum considers acceptable.

We agree that there’s spam, but ever since I’ve been on the forum, I haven’t stopped seeing people fixated on the same thing—even though a forum is what it is. We already have another thread with more suggestions on the topic.

The merit system seems to have been quite effective at reducing the spam that was present before it was introduced. Now the signature bans are working too. We can do our part by reporting spam, but personally, it doesn’t keep me up at night to read some junk on the forum every now and then. I don’t know if, when you visit other forums, you’re impressed by the quality of the conversations there. Other forums usually have trash, but of a different kind. Here, the trash is related to getting paid, and in other forums it’s a different kind—but that’s also why the rules are different. One-liners, for example, which here usually end up getting reported and deleted, are accepted in other forums as a form of conversation.

I just see a lot of people worried about spam, how bad the forum is because of spam, and how to deal with it, whereas for me it’s the opposite—I think the forum is awesome despite the spam, which is found here just like on other forums.

Something like that I expressed on this thread:

This forum is fucking awesome!

[cryptofrka]

Since you posted those quotes, you might as well have included the link. I would have reported them. I highly doubt those posts wouldn't have been deleted.

That would be selective, thus unfair. There are hundreds of similar posts written in the last few days.

_______________________________________

theymos - any chance for the 'Paid pools' child board in Gambling boards?
The idea has all the pros and none of the cons and can be implemented in a few hours of work.

[Rikafip]

Since you posted those quotes, you might as well have included the link. I would have reported them. I highly doubt those posts wouldn't have been deleted.

Tell me you haven't reported many posts on the Gambling board without telling me you haven't reported many posts on the Gambling board.

Anyway, here are the links of those posts. I also reported them, hoping that something has changed lately and they actually get deleted for a change.  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159855.msg67235555#msg67235555
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5552887.msg67232888#msg67232888

I think the forum is awesome despite the spam, which is found here just like on other forums.

I share your sentiment. I also think this forum is fucking awesome, despite the spam. And because I like it so much, I'd like to see it become even better (or at least not worse), which I think it can with a few tweaks.

[Supreme Donvic]

I believe people in this forum are already doing that constantly, the issue is that some post you will report to mod won't be deleted, maybe because they feel those posts are not spam, I believe mods in this forum wants people to actually post freely or maybe what some of us see as spam is not a spam to them.
I'm not saying the mods are not trying, but if we most have an effective report and delete case in this forum, we need to agree on standard of posts that are spam or not and then stand by it. It will be a consensus.

~Supreme

The main issue is that there are signature campaigns that are practically promoting spamming in such sections; see minimum requirement of 10 posts, or/and petty bonuses for posting in the gambling board. Especially the latter, there's a certain group of people who're actively abusing it, creating as many posts they can for the bonus; if that's 20 posts, 20, 30, 30, doesn't matter the amount, they'll do it, even if it is 60 posts.

What you just pointed out is one of the major reason for spam in this forum, you can't tell a group of people that the more post they make in a particular board determines how big or high their money will be and expect them not to spam that particular board, of course they are going to spam the board to make sure they meet or have a good number of Post in the particular board just to get a higher pay.
Campaign managers should avoid rules that will lead to spam in a particular board.


~Supreme

[MarryWithBTC]

...I don’t know if, when you visit other forums, you’re impressed by the quality of the conversations there. Other forums usually have trash, but of a different kind. Here, the trash is related to getting paid, and in other forums it’s a different kind—but that’s also why the rules are different. One-liners, for example, which here usually end up getting reported and deleted, are accepted in other forums as a form of conversation.

I just see a lot of people worried about spam, how bad the forum is because of spam, and how to deal with it, whereas for me it’s the opposite—I think the forum is awesome despite the spam, which is found here just like on other forums.

Something like that I expressed on this thread:

This forum is fucking awesome!

I also share in your sentiment. Other forums are not better than this, and I agree that this forum should be a model for others. In some other forums, almost every board is spam related but here in BTT, there are some boards that cannot actually be spammed.

People complain about gambling board but they forget that gambling boards also have the highest number of posts the forum produces. So, if other boards have 2% spam, it is expected that the gambling board should have up to 7 - 12% spam because of high forum of contribution there. I do not think it is totally out of control as we seem it to be.

I also think it's high time we began seeing gambling board as another forum in the forum.

[robelneo]

I also share in your sentiment. Other forums are not better than this, and I agree that this forum should be a model for others. In some other forums, almost every board is spam related but here in BTT, there are some boards that cannot actually be spammed.

This is an SMF-based forum, and there is a core feature of SMF allowing administrators to review and approve posts before they go live
How to set up Post Approval? This is good for forums with a small community, but not on forums with very large members, like Bitcointalk; that's too much work for administrators and moderators.

I also think it's high time we began seeing gambling board as another forum in the forum.

Brother, please elaborate. I always assume that sections and sub-forums are forums within a forum.

[notocactus]

This is an SMF-based forum, and there is a core feature of SMF allowing administrators to review and approve posts before they go live
How to set up Post Approval? This is good for forums with a small community, but not on forums with very large members, like Bitcointalk; that's too much work for administrators and moderators.

Some reasons it won't be applied again in this forum. Again, I meant there was such time it was applied.

• Newbie restrictions in 2011: announcement about preemptive whitelisting.
• Whitelist request here. Later it was no longer used so I can bet that it won't come back, even in another form aims at higher ranks.

It's about the past but there are other reasons with one reason is the forum scale, that is big forum community, not a small one. Other reasons are: it's kind of censorship; it creates like a blockage in posting flow. You can image that I make my post earlier than another or other users but somehow my post approval is done after their posts. It will possibly make my post useless in chronological order.