Best country to live for long time hodlers

[m2017]

Hi, i want to hear opinions about hodler people who has moved for optimize btc taxation.

It seems to me that in order to move to another country, need to take into account other combined factors, and not do this only because of tax optimization with bitcoin. Still, life is not limited to just owning btc.

I mean the primary goal is to simply be able to spend for living without worries

Doesn't bitcoin already allow to do that? Why does everyone try to "integrate" an alternative financial system (bitcoin) into another one (taxation)? Did you see some decree by Nakamoto somewhere saying, "Use bitcoin for your commercial and financial transactions, but first, without fail, pay your taxes if you want to spend your btc without worry"?

These countries allow you to live in a highly developed infrastructure while enjoying 0% capital gains tax specifically because you are a long-term investor, rather than an active day trader.

Today the tax is 0%, but tomorrow it’s 0% + N. Nothing stops lawmakers from changing the tax regime simply because they feel like it (due to a budget deficit or envy of your profits).

If you want absolute freedom from capital gains without needing to track your exact calendar dates or holding periods, these hubs offer total tax neutrality.

The way to do it is different: you keep quiet about your assets when dealing with the regulator and spend the money in jurisdictions where it is possible to do so (i.e., where the conditions are right). It seems to me that this is exactly what many people do.

For example:

some people exchange it for cash and pay 0%

P.S. There will never be a perfect safe haven for BTC-owners: laws are highly volatile (and invariably change for the worse), and conditions that are currently favorable in one country will eventually prove less advantageous than those in another.

[zasad@]

P.S. There will never be a perfect safe haven for BTC-owners: laws are highly volatile (and invariably change for the worse), and conditions that are currently favorable in one country will eventually prove less advantageous than those in another.

I agree with you that there will never be a perfect haven for Bitcoin holders if they declare their holdings; you would end up having to go everywhere with a security detail.
However, there are countries where you can easily exchange Bitcoin for cash and spend it sensibly without attracting unwanted attention from government authorities or criminals.

[poy]

~snip~
is there anyone that decided to expat?
i would like to know some stories, better if someone has relocated to Portugal

Maybe you can find some experiences on Reddit or similar sites, but in the end it all comes down to whether you are really ready to move to another country. For some people, this is not a problem, but for most, moving permanently to another country is more than a challenge.

A new environment, language, people, customs, food - you have to get used to it all and hope that the law you came for will not change overnight.

yes i will check reddit, but i wanted to know if someone here have planned to do something like that and if was happy about the choice.
i know there are many variables, let's say, for the sake of the argument, that  environment, language, people, customs, food are not a problem
(i'm evaluating a country very similar to mine, like Portugal)


i'm more worried about doing things right about taxes and retire there living a normal life   

[poy]

I usually see these kinds of posts, and I always wonder if it's really worth it to relocate to a completely different country simply because of taxes? I don't think it's worth it. You would spend so much to relocate, and in the country you would go to, you would still pay a certain amount of tax on your crypto gains. If you're relocating for your taxes in general, then I understand, but for crypto taxes alone, there is no way it can be worth it. Except maybe you're already from the country or have family there. For countries like Japan and Denmark that have up to 50 percent taxes on crypto gains, I can understand, but anything from 30 percent down makes no sense to relocate.

It's a really funny thing actually but I guess these people who do this have decided that moving is the better option so what can we say? Maybe this is why some people are discouraged to invest or hold Bitcoin because of situations like these because when you calculate how much you'd spend paying tax, how much will then be left for you to "hold".

i agree

if you are or you were a modest investor, you have to think about how much you could gain in a country that taxes heavily crypto.
Or if you plan to use crypto "off grid" you could not , for example, buy expensive items, without being scrutinized.
People are discouraged

[poy]

A new environment, language, people, customs, food - you have to get used to it all and hope that the law you came for will not change overnight.

Yes, here lies the real paradox: what do you do if the laws you came for suddenly change? Would you move to another country after having somewhat adapted to your new life?

Laws are constantly changing, especially with regard to crypto, because it is still relatively new, and therefore there is no guarantee that the laws it has moved to will not change, and we have already seen this happen in several countries.
But, in the end, every person has a different way of thinking.

that's a good point
however if you cash out all or an "amount sufficient" when laws are in your favor, you could fully enjoy your investment

[poy]

* Germany: 0% tax after 12 months. Germany features one of the most straightforward frameworks in Europe. If you hold your Bitcoin for over one year, all capital gains upon selling become completely tax-free.

Worth to stay tuned. There are plans to tax the gains even after the 12 month holding period: https://cointracking.info/blog/germany-crypto-holding-period-reform-2026

yes, AI warned me.
Better put it "out of the list" for precaution 

[poy]

I mean the primary goal is to simply be able to spend for living without worries

Doesn't bitcoin already allow to do that? Why does everyone try to "integrate" an alternative financial system (bitcoin) into another one (taxation)? Did you see some decree by Nakamoto somewhere saying, "Use bitcoin for your commercial and financial transactions, but first, without fail, pay your taxes if you want to spend your btc without worry"?

If you want absolute freedom from capital gains without needing to track your exact calendar dates or holding periods, these hubs offer total tax neutrality.

The way to do it is different: you keep quiet about your assets when dealing with the regulator and spend the money in jurisdictions where it is possible to do so (i.e., where the conditions are right). It seems to me that this is exactly what many people do.
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well, in my country spending without kyc is limited to gift cards or selling for cash.
This is ok for small amounts but not, for example, if you want buy a house.
you could use p2p platforms like bisq & c, but if you get a big wire transfer, you will be red flagged immediatly