Do we have current forum financial records?

[Churchillvv]

I also don’t know the fate of the forum being in it actually functionality if let say they Theymos isn’t active anymore, is there a possibility that the forum might just die down? I really want to know!

Before theymos became sole Admin, someone managed it and his name is Martti Malmi and bitcointalk username or nickname (Sirius) he is a co-creator of the forum and handed over to Theymos.

So if the forum did not die after he left the forum will not still die if Theymos is not longer here, he will find another trustworthy individual to hand it over to.

[alani123]

I also don’t know the fate of the forum being in it actually functionality if let say they Theymos isn’t active anymore, is there a possibility that the forum might just die down? I really want to know!

Before theymos became sole Admin, someone managed it and his name is Martti Malmi and bitcointalk username or nickname (Sirius) he is a co-creator of the forum and handed over to Theymos.

So if the forum did not die after he left the forum will not still die if Theymos is not longer here, he will find another trustworthy individual to hand it over to.

It used to be that Cobra owned the domain bitcointalt.org which as far as I understand changed to theymos in 2020 based on the thread below:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5241347.0

So theymos is the admin here in all sense of the word.

[notocactus]

Before theymos became sole Admin, someone managed it and his name is Martti Malmi and bitcointalk username or nickname (Sirius) he is a co-creator of the forum and handed over to Theymos.

It used to be that Cobra owned the domain bitcointalt.org which as far as I understand changed to theymos in 2020 based on the thread below:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5241347.0

There is more information about forum admin history and the forum domain changes are in this topic

• Bitcointalk's important historic changes.

There were some forum admins after satoshi: theymos, Gavin Andresen and sirius (Martti Malmi). There was time when both theymos and sirus were forum admins until 2012 when theymos became a head admin after sirius left.

The active administrators are currently:
theymos (me)
Gavin Andresen
sirius

Sirius runs the server.

It's surprising how well-documented history can become totally forgotten... Satoshi created the forum on Nov 22, 2009, and was head administrator until almost 2011. Then Sirius was head administrator until 2012, which is when I took over.

Cobra also owns the bitcointalk.org domain name. I consider the forum to be basically owned by or at least dedicated to the Bitcoin community, though; I don't call anyone an owner of the forum.

That wiki article is kind of terrible...

Of course not, do you really need to ask?

 - I was made a forum admin in 2011, after Satoshi left. (Silk Road also appeared after Satoshi left.) I didn't have any special access to bitcoin.org until around 2013, and in fact I didn't even have any access to the bitcointalk.org DNS until 2013.

There was a period where both Sirius and I were active administrators. For convenience, I reckon Jan 1, 2012 as when I became head administrator, though it was actually a gradual transition starting before and ending after that.

The story of how I became head admin is actually pretty boring. Moderators were needed, so I was made a global moderator. Then admins were needed, so I was made an admin. Then over time the other admins slowly lost interest and resigned until I was the only one left. I guess most of the people who were around here to see this have more-or-less left the community now. That's a bit sad.

It's not entirely clear, but for simplicity I usually say that I became head admin at the beginning of 2011, a little over a year after the forum was created.

The forum was originally located at bitcoin.org/smf, then forum.bitcoin.org (hence the redirect), and finally bitcointalk.org. Fun fact: The name "bitcointalk" was invented by Jeff Garzik, and he's the one who bought the domain.

[hilariousandco]

The forum probably doesn't have any notable income source to state at the moment given that ads have been suspended.

The finances aren't interesting anymore. The bitcoin from early donations had appreciated a ton. Some financial reporting standards require appreciating assets to be stated as income, but this is some sort of BS if you ask me.

Practically the forum could run itself for decades under the current expense model and given the BTC reserve. It doesn't sound like something concerning to me. The more recent financial data would just be a curiosity if anything.

The only income I can think of is copper membership and evil fees which I can't imagine take in much, though I'd be interested in theymos sharing that data.

I also don’t know the fate of the forum being in it actually functionality if let say they Theymos isn’t active anymore, is there a possibility that the forum might just die down? I really want to know!

Before theymos became sole Admin, someone managed it and his name is Martti Malmi and bitcointalk username or nickname (Sirius) he is a co-creator of the forum and handed over to Theymos.

So if the forum did not die after he left the forum will not still die if Theymos is not longer here, he will find another trustworthy individual to hand it over to.

Cyrus is the other admin so he would probably become defacto leader.

[aioc]

The forum probably doesn't have any notable income source to state at the moment given that ads have been suspended.

They don't have to; the funds are enough to cover operations. They can renew for up to 10 years, get the best hosting plans, and even offer huge bounties.
They don't have to market the forum, as past and current content does that for them; everything is taken care of, they just need to stay as Bitcoin forum.

[MarryWithBTC]

..So if the forum did not die after he left the forum will not still die if Theymos is not longer here, he will find another trustworthy individual to hand it over to.

Almost all established members of the forum can maintain the forum. What is needed is to identify who understands this forum; what it stands for in the global stage and among the forum members. Someone who is not greedy, someone who allows freedom and of course intelligent and most importantly, not power drunk.

The only income I can think of is copper membership and evil fees which I can't imagine take in much, though I'd be interested in theymos sharing that data.

I don't know how much is paid for copper membership, but for evil fee, the amount is so little and I wonder how many pays this fee when they can bypass it by concealing their IP.

[Churchillvv]

..So if the forum did not die after he left the forum will not still die if Theymos is not longer here, he will find another trustworthy individual to hand it over to.

Almost all established members of the forum can maintain the forum. What is needed is to identify who understands this forum; what it stands for in the global stage and among the forum members. Someone who is not greedy, someone who allows freedom and of course intelligent and most importantly, not power drunk.

Lol, is it that simple? I doubt the maintenance is that much easy for almost any established member to maintain. Of course we don’t have to argue much about it if Theymos is done he definitely will hand over to the co-admin. Or probably someone like PowerGlove and not just the regular established member of the forum.

[atookz]

Instead of trusting a DT1 member, thereby creating two possible points of failure, how about having a multi signature arrangement for some portion of the funds while theymos still keep some portion.

A timelocked fallback would solve the issue of what happens if theymos disappears, but multisig seems like a good idea as well. When he is active he retains full control, and if the coins don't move for a year or two, a small group of people, such as current admins or staff, can also take over. But there are a couple of problems: someone needs to move the coins periodically to restart the timer, and the setup is more complicated, so it would be best to test it out with small amounts first. He might have a plan he's just not talking about and even a brief answer of yes there's one would be comforting.

Some financial reporting standards require appreciating assets to be stated as income, but this is some sort of BS if you ask me.

I don't think this is BS as it's accounting versus tax. I believe fair-value accounting for crypto (US GAAP since ASU 2023-08, for instance) recognizes the gains in value, but for US tax purposes gains generally aren't recognized until you sell. So an entity can appear very profitable on their books, but not have any tax bill. I am not sure which standards are in effect within the forum but this is why a simple cash report (income/expenses, like theymos posted earlier) is more useful to the community than full accounts.

[uchegod-21]

..So if the forum did not die after he left the forum will not still die if Theymos is not longer here, he will find another trustworthy individual to hand it over to.

Almost all established members of the forum can maintain the forum. What is needed is to identify who understands this forum; what it stands for in the global stage and among the forum members. Someone who is not greedy, someone who allows freedom and of course intelligent and most importantly, not power drunk.

Lol, is it that simple? I doubt the maintenance is that much easy for almost any established member to maintain. Of course we don’t have to argue much about it if Theymos is done he definitely will hand over to the co-admin. Or probably someone like PowerGlove and not just the regular established member of the forum.

I  really want to understand what MarryWithBTC meant by established members. Being able to maintain and manage this forum goes beyond just having technical knowledge about Bitcoin, the forum, or any other technical matter or skills. It goes beyond being a high-ranking member or whatever criteria we may consider. That is why I am also going to let MarryWithBTC know that being an established member of the forum does not mean that the individual is fit to maintain a forum as big as Bitcointalk.

There is no public documentation of the criteria for selecting a head administrator of this forum or handing over the position, i believe issues like this are discussed internally. But then, when the time comes, a lot will be taken into consideration when determining who is fit for the position. That position is a very delicate one, so it requires someone who understands and respects the forum's culture.

[knowngunman]

This is so accurate 
I think it explains how complicated some rules can be here

It would really make a lot of sense if it’s being actualized. The forum current interface is giving that caprice browser we use to use in the old days.

That's your opinion but the idea to keep it this way make more sense than changing it. The forum represents bitcoin, so I think we should maintain that bitcoin legacy. This old is golden because it's faster to load even when you're having a poor network.

Maybe theymos needs to diversify and trust a number of DT1 members to each hold forum funds to spread the risk. Obviously full KYC and full dox would be required to satisfy the level of trust required for that kind of role.

I personally wouldn't support this idea. We just had recent incident that involve a mod deleting threads for personal gains. People can change suddenly when given privilege and trust can be easily broken.

With or without public updates, the funds is more safer with theymos than spreading it to several DTs. I don't know how you want the KYC to be done but it can be faked and also violate what we are preaching here all the time.

[MarryWithBTC]

..So if the forum did not die after he left the forum will not still die if Theymos is not longer here, he will find another trustworthy individual to hand it over to.

Almost all established members of the forum can maintain the forum. What is needed is to identify who understands this forum; what it stands for in the global stage and among the forum members. Someone who is not greedy, someone who allows freedom and of course intelligent and most importantly, not power drunk.

Lol, is it that simple? I doubt the maintenance is that much easy for almost any established member to maintain. Of course we don’t have to argue much about it if Theymos is done he definitely will hand over to the co-admin. Or probably someone like PowerGlove and not just the regular established member of the forum.

I  really want to understand what MarryWithBTC meant by established members. Being able to maintain and manage this forum goes beyond just having technical knowledge about Bitcoin, the forum, or any other technical matter or skills. It goes beyond being a high-ranking member or whatever criteria we may consider. That is why I am also going to let MarryWithBTC know that being an established member of the forum does not mean that the individual is fit to maintain a forum as big as Bitcointalk.

@Churchillvv, I understand that you are looking at it from the technical standpoint. I agree that being technical is an important criterium but it doesn't have as much percentage as the character of that person.
Also remember that apart from being technical, seniority is also considered. There are a lot of users to be mentioned before the likes of PG.

@Uchegod-21, when I say established members, I mean reputable members. I used a wrong adjective there though. You are an established member but not reputable, so when I said established member, I was not referring to you or any other random hero or legendary members. Without naming names, we know them.

[Odohu]

I still cant believe how much money got wasted on new forum software, and we have literally nothing to show for it.  Such a shame.

How hard would it be to use only a small part of that budget to modernize what we already have?

The two major areas money is being spent on software and paying the mods, I don't know if it will be possible to cut down the cost of those but I believe that Theymos is going for the best there is out there in order to protect the forum from any form of attack.

The forum is rich so there is still so much money let. At the current annual spending, it will take over 60 years for the forum to run out of money.

[Stalker22]

The two major areas money is being spent on software and paying the mods, I don't know if it will be possible to cut down the cost of those but I believe that Theymos is going for the best there is out there in order to protect the forum from any form of attack.

The forum is rich so there is still so much money let. At the current annual spending, it will take over 60 years for the forum to run out of money.

Keep in mind that these are old financial records.  At that time, the new forum software was still being actively developed.  This is no longer the case since the admin pulled the plug last year:
No longer pursuing Epochtalk

Therefore, there are no further "Forum Software Project" expenses.  Most of the budget now probably goes to moderation, hosting, and maintenance, as far as we know.

[Churchillvv]

@Churchillvv, I understand that you are looking at it from the technical standpoint. I agree that being technical is an important criterium but it doesn't have as much percentage as the character of that person.
Also remember that apart from being technical, seniority is also considered. There are a lot of users to be mentioned before the likes of PG.

When you say seniority, what exactly do you mean? do you mean by age? or do you mean how long someone has spent in the forum?
Perhaps, we have thousands of dump ass individuals who have been around for so long yet have little knowledge on the forum generally, and when we talk of seniority in terms of ranks we also have similar people with low IQ and EQ in the legendary rank, so what do mean exactly?

Also on the technical consideration I was pointing towards, if you have been around for sometime you understand why the technicality is the major thing considered or primary value before secondary values like character, the forum runs in to trouble on different occasions and Theymos does his thing (technically) to save the forum.
Here this Youtube video game that explains the admin work better and why technicality is the major factor:

https://youtu.be/o4QE9XFY2os?si=H_JZ4GwBPUvee0hW

[MoparMiningLLC]

Some people would really want to enjoy browsing the forum using their mobile phones, something that is currently not possible/smooth since the forum is not fully optimized for that.

What phones are people using? I have an iPhone and forums have always displayed/worked without issues on my phone

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

Some people would really want to enjoy browsing the forum using their mobile phones, something that is currently not possible/smooth since the forum is not fully optimized for that.

What phones are people using? I have an iPhone and forums have always displayed/worked without issues on my phone

The forum software is not an application for mobile devices so there is no optimization for smart phones but I have used the forum without issues on my phones in years. If there is anything uncomfortable, it's typing my posts but typing on phones and mobile devices without extra connected key boards is always inconvenient, and it's true not only with this forum.

Community members built some scripts but I don't actually have need to use these scripts.
Bitcointalk Mobile Friendly Script + Dark Mode [NO UI CHANGE]
Bitcointalk Mobile Friendly App for Android

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Getting back on topic, why should anyone care about the forum financials?
It is a privately owned enterprise beholden to no investors much less its users to be concerned about them. It has more than enough coin to run for many many years.

[RGBTC]

Some people would really want to enjoy browsing the forum using their mobile phones, something that is currently not possible/smooth since the forum is not fully optimized for that.

What phones are people using? I have an iPhone and forums have always displayed/worked without issues on my phone

On android devices:

• Limited display space; requires frequent zooming in and out.
• Touch input doesn't function like a mouse cursor; extra steps are needed just to preview embedded links or view messages that usually appear on text hover.
• There may be various other limitations in the format-enriched writing mode.

[Decimation]

I don't find anything wrong with op since the thread you mentioned is really old.

Is there any problem if it is old? It's better not to post in a topic if no one has posted there for more than three month and notocactus has also said that the thread is not locked. But I know something like this regarding creating a new post, which I am sharing below.

It depends from each mod interpretation.
If the duplicated topic is active then odds that the second topic will be deleted are high.
If the first topic is less than 1-2 month old, I recommend to continue posting on it only serious questions.
If the first topic is > 3 months or years old or locked then i will create another one and make a reference to the original one.
If the first topic contains useful informations but it is too old or locked then why don't you merge its contents with some other topics and create a new one containing more informations with reference to the original one. (list of useful information...etc)

[MoparMiningLLC]

Some people would really want to enjoy browsing the forum using their mobile phones, something that is currently not possible/smooth since the forum is not fully optimized for that.

What phones are people using? I have an iPhone and forums have always displayed/worked without issues on my phone

The forum software is not an application for mobile devices so there is no optimization for smart phones but I have used the forum without issues on my phones in years. If there is anything uncomfortable, it's typing my posts but typing on phones and mobile devices without extra connected key boards is always inconvenient, and it's true not only with this forum.

Community members built some scripts but I don't actually have need to use these scripts.
Bitcointalk Mobile Friendly Script + Dark Mode [NO UI CHANGE]
Bitcointalk Mobile Friendly App for Android

I have no issues with using my phones keyboard in typing responses/making posts - I would find it more cumbersome to use an external kb with the my phone. Except for making sales/auction threads I prefer the forums on my phone vs the pc.

Getting back on topic, why should anyone care about the forum financials?
It is a privately owned enterprise beholden to no investors much less its users to be concerned about them. It has more than enough coin to run for many many years.

agreed sorry for going off topic.