Online poker without people

[oll]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

You’ve raised a very interesting topic. Poker bots existed even before the advent of AI; some gamblers used it, while others didn't. Now, in the AI ​​era, many will want to gain an edge by using AI. There is a strong incentive here: if it’s possible to beat an opponent (by any means necessary), people are highly likely to do so, after all, real money is at stake. Consequently, I suspect online card games will soon turn (if it haven't already) into a "battle" of AI's rather than a game played by real people. It will be difficult for ordinary gamblers (without AI) to compete against those using it, forcing everyone to switch to AI tools. Of course, this will be officially frowned upon and cracked down on, sparking a "technology race" where AI bots are improved while online casinos simultaneously upgrade their detection methods.

What methods do you think casinos will use to detect AI? Perhaps requiring a video camera pointed at the gambler's face and eyes (to analyze pupil movements) and at the hand using the mouse (to compare physical movements with in-game actions)?

Previously, online casinos detected bots in poker based on player behavior. More specifically, how they moved their mouse. As far as I know, bots didn't move their mouse organically before; they simply darted around a sudden event in a key spot on the table: cards, fish, etc.
Now, it's likely that AI is being implemented more naturally. But in any case, it's unlikely to look normal to an outside observer. On the other hand, Astra could create a mechanical hand that would move the mouse. In any case, this is a disaster for those who want to play live poker, and not just for the money.

[WhoYouCantKill]

You see one thing that really makes the whole thing interesting is the fact that AI doesn’t need to necessarily predict every single card correctly before it can gain an advantage, what it only needs to do is to make better and informed decisions consistently. And if peradventure, humans also now use AI to counter other AI models, then that would only mean that human skill wouldn’t be important anymore in online poker like it used to be. So the real question should be whether people would still find the game exciting and entertaining to play when they’re no longer sure whether they are really playing with other humans. 

[Cointxz]

online poker without people sounds like playing against bots or AI instead of real players.

This is the current sentiment in online poker since playing against AI is already common and it’s very unfair since AI play based on math without human emotion so it’s hard to beat them as a normal poker player.

There’s also no entertainment on playing against AI since it doesn’t make a human error mistakes.

I believe some poker site is already restricting down the use of AI on their platform.

[5W-KILO]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

AI have seriously affected and will continue to affect our daily affairs and business as it stands now, there is nothing humanly possible and impossible that AI won't create or developed when properly instructed. Even that of online poker situation of knowing the next move of a player, that is nothing serious to an AI to predict if being commanded, some minutes and a strong connections might be just what it's needs. In fact AI can even develop a program that can even hack the entire system of an online game to know every step and who to likely win the game. I believe the only casino that an AI might just be able to predict but can't be 100% accurate is a sport casinos that are usually played in real life.

Humans are the true problem of Humans, I don't see any reason why some humans will create something that will make many peoples life to become even more miserable, like the world wasn't already tough enough.

I don't see any reason why AI should do everything, they should have only be programmed to be co pilot or helpers for humans, not taking over their jobs, AI should be companions and very limited to this only.

Now that AI is a thing we will need more AI to detect bots on the platforms easier and to also either protect datas from other villain AIs or use them for more sinister plans, God don't need to destroy the world humans will destroy everything themselves.

[bakasabo]

What would be the point to have AI poker players instead of human poker players? To make this running as a script/process that will play 24/7 and earn money? Then casinos will be the winners if that happens with their house edge. As to players, AI players will kill the spirit of the game because AI player usage will turn game into money farming and human players would leave table with such AI players, spend time searching for tables with humans. That wasted time on searching will decrease wish to play, what is a money loss for casino.

[savetheFORUM]

I assume it has already turned poker into an AI game but I would personally not prefer joining a table with AI knowing AI can be way better than me in terms of calculating cards. In most times, AI can easily win the game but us, people would still struggle to recover what we took from the bank. AI can make calculated moves but we as humans would usually tend to use our luck or just go with the flow. In very rare cases, we can still win but the chances are pretty slim.

Online poker has caught attention globally but users are still sceptical in knowing with whom they are actually playing. There are chatbots to make this easy but with AI, we can't really have that human intervention.

[TheUltraElite]

I would stop visiting casinos the day AI players come into the play. Better off playing with live humans because Poker is not just about betting, it also carries some humane nature in it being a game that needs more than just a single player to play.

Playing online indeed bots have been there for years, but AI players, something that developers would take some effort to build if it ever gets built.

Now I dont discourage the technological development, but certain things in life need to be real like the wine that you drink and the food that you eat.

[Alex077]

Most of the top players learned how to read their opponents and the heads up statistical software they used gave them all the numbers they needed really. You're right though, AI is likely to make online poker even harder to navigate unless you're playing with the same tools and strategy. It will be able to identify weaknesses but is still going to need time to accumulate enough data to profile a player. I can actually see a clever online poker site anonymizing people after they login or even whenever they enter a table to defeat or at least slow down this sort of "abuse". That way you'd only be able to judge a player based on what you see of their current session...

In my opinion, the biggest advantage of AI isn't so much its ability to collect statistics, but its ability to interpret that data on its own and adapt its strategy in real time. Traditional software gives players information that they then have to use to make their own decisions. Modern AI systems, on the other hand, can potentially analyze the situation themselves, take a particular opponent's playing style into account, and choose the most profitable strategy. And they can sometimes spot certain patterns even after a relatively small number of hands, although those conclusions won't be as reliable.

Personally, I still think AI has the potential to significantly change online poker. Not because it's learned to recognize bluffs or weak hands, but because there's gradually less need for human involvement in the actual decision-making process. And that's what I see as a much bigger threat to fair play than traditional statistical tracking software.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

You keep having mixed reactions, as some will support the use of AI to enhance gamblers' experience when playing poker games, some will also give their own view to condemn the benefits and state one or two reasons why playing poker is no longer enjoyable due to the incidence of AI being introduced,

Can players even trust the game again if they are only playing against AI, knowing fully well that AI is smarter and can predict their moves even before they act. Although I don't play poker but assuming it's my favorite game and AI gets introduced which could make it impossible for me to win as before, I don't think I can continue playing against AI, I would rather prefer to play against a fellow human at a live table, perhaps that's even when it get more fun.

[angrybirdy]

Behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

Just like I also expressed in another post here, AI may not necessarily be a big game changer. The major difference they could bring is less suspected randomisation because regular algorithms can appear repetitive sometimes. In that case the idea of introducing AI could just be to mimic humanoid moves.

This is mainly because at the end of the day AI is just a more complex algorithm of it's own with it's major difference being its ability to adapt and kinda learn unlike the normal algorithms we have today.

I see your point and I understand that AI is nothing more than an advanced algorithm, as you say. However, I think the ability to learn and adapt is what distinguishes AI from the conventional algorithms. While the latter is characterized by fixed sets of rules, thus allowing their behavior to be quite predictable, AI is able to adapt its operation to various conditions. tho I agree with your idea that the presence of AI does not automatically mean an improvement of a particular system, and the only role played by AI in such a system is making movements more human like, then there might not be any major difference in the systems. What I mean is that adaptability in making decisions without being restricted by any instructions is what matters in the first place.

[Emitdama]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

That is one of the things which has discouraged me from going back and play poker again online. There just too many people who are not even playing but running their own customized AI with the hope of getting money by doing nothing.

That is why I am very supportive of playing poker against people one can actually see, face to face, on the same table, with no chances of them being an AI.

Sadly, it is more difficult to get a table of real people nowadays than it is logging onto one's account and play against people around the world.

The world is digitalising so we can see the adverse effects here. There are a number of people having multiple accounts and they can still join the same table. Just imagine, how easy it is for them to win that hand because they already know a number of cards and can easily calculate the remaining ones. This is the very first reason why I do not trust online poker. The results are often fake so I would not risk my hard earned money in online poker.

But yes, I still play online poker just for fun. If I have some free time, I would prefer joining a table and have fun instead of looking for earning opportunities. It is really difficult and sometimes impossible to make money in online poker due to the fraudulent activities.

[gracreavix]

Online poker is built by series of combo of trust and if AI is included in the equation, then it can potentially harm the game. Let me explain, let's say you start playing poker. And normally, loss are avoidable. But you noticed that you loss more than normal. You will start to get suspicious. And maybe you voice out. If not you, someone will. Then couple hundreds of people raise such concerns too. Before you know it, the whole community is complaining. Obviously, then there is a reduced number of trust. Then people begin not to play the game.

From a popular game to a game that died because AI decided to take over and became to perfect for players.

[abel1337]

You keep having mixed reactions, as some will support the use of AI to enhance gamblers' experience when playing poker games, some will also give their own view to condemn the benefits and state one or two reasons why playing poker is no longer enjoyable due to the incidence of AI being introduced,

Can players even trust the game again if they are only playing against AI, knowing fully well that AI is smarter and can predict their moves even before they act. Although I don't play poker but assuming it's my favorite game and AI gets introduced which could make it impossible for me to win as before, I don't think I can continue playing against AI, I would rather prefer to play against a fellow human at a live table, perhaps that's even when it get more fun.

Not until you use your own AI agains't your opponents AI. We are at the age of AI and I think if we can't beat them, we can let them play with their own kind. I agree with you that playing with a human is far different agains't a bot or AI. I tried playing offline poker before and it's not that enjoyable to be honest and I think it's hard to predict them. It is far different from playing on a live table with live chat going.

Well can't stop casino if they tried creating a poker room/table that has an AI opponents in it, I don't know if it is currently existing but if they do, they should have a probably fair system since we are agains't the house at that point.

[Mahiyammahi]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

So you want to replace your human companion with AI, or are you saying the casino might do something that would lead online poker to be dominated by AI bots, and the system would just corner real people and burn their money? I think this would go against their ethics.

If you want to build an AI agent that will play poker for your sake, then that is a different case scenario. I tried to create an AI bot with the Opus 4.5 API; it was on a prediction market, the API burn was too high, and in the end I could not build a stable bot/Agent that would make me any profit.
Some people will definitely dominate in this section, but not everyone can pull this off and rely on AI with their money lol. 

[KiaKia]

Or has it already?

To a large extent. Online poker experienced a boom in the early 2000s, began to decline starting in 2011, and—except during the COVID era—has continued to decline. First came the poker schools, with equity analyzers and statistics software. Then came the Solvers and bots. These days, with AI and RTA, I think it’s only worth playing live.

The interest in poker may likely keep declining because of AI, if AI on poker is too smart for people who would want to keep playing? I don't expect casinos to go this extent just because they want to make more money, people will just lose interest is all.

Poker lovers will have to give room for Live plays if they really want to enjoy their favourite, it will be a complete goodbye to online poker games.

Haven't online casinos had enough already? With their present provably fair they are already few steps ahead of gamblers, every gamblers now depends on luck to win and they want to bring AI to make them win more? It wouldn't end well.

[Rruchi man]

Or has it already?

To a large extent. Online poker experienced a boom in the early 2000s, began to decline starting in 2011, and—except during the COVID era—has continued to decline. First came the poker schools, with equity analyzers and statistics software. Then came the Solvers and bots. These days, with AI and RTA, I think it’s only worth playing live.

The interest in poker may likely keep declining because of AI, if AI on poker is too smart for people who would want to keep playing? I don't expect casinos to go this extent just because they want to make more money, people will just lose interest is all.

Poker lovers will have to give room for Live plays if they really want to enjoy their favourite, it will be a complete goodbye to online poker games.

Yes, rather than being completely discouraged from playing poker, many gamblers who love this game will simply just switch to live plays, and the remaining physical casino houses where they can play poker with humans that they can see and enjoy the moment knowing that their chances of winning are still high.

Haven't online casinos had enough already? With their present provably fair they are already few steps ahead of gamblers, every gamblers now depends on luck to win and they want to bring AI to make them win more? It wouldn't end well.

Online casinos will continue to try to ensure that the scale is massively in their favor because the casino remains a business to them.

[348Judah]

online poker without people sounds like playing against bots or AI instead of real players.

Literally that is what we could easily give us a definition to what it means, but if you go more closer to understand what they have to offer and the terms and conditions that comes with playing a particular poker, we will definitely know if what we wanted is what they are offering us or not, remember the intention of playing a poker online is to have fun while the casino to make profits in their business.

[Agbe]

And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

The matter what human is still needed to control things on the table though AI will make things easier for the human to play the game. In the presence time, poker games are not popular like before again and if we check this forum too, many casinos has no poker game. And many gamblers do not know how t play it so if AI comes in to poker, it will help human a lot. And I don't think it has come.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

Or has it already?

To a large extent. Online poker experienced a boom in the early 2000s, began to decline starting in 2011, and—except during the COVID era—has continued to decline. First came the poker schools, with equity analyzers and statistics software. Then came the Solvers and bots. These days, with AI and RTA, I think it’s only worth playing live.

Agreed. Only sometimes exceptions must be made when you find some guy ou really have to play online. At SWC for example I have a list of terrible players marked that I would play 24/7. They raise/play every hand, always the same pattern and unless they get lucky, what they of course occasionally do, they are a guaranteed payout. Unfortunately you see these people less and less thanks to the mismanagement of SWC doing nothing against collusions/bots or even thinking a peak of 150 people on the site is enough. 
Anyway, playing poker online used to be a fun experience but with the ever increasing rake as well as AI play this really sucks every bit of excitement out of it.

[Yorubek]

Online poker is built by series of combo of trust and if AI is included in the equation, then it can potentially harm the game. Let me explain, let's say you start playing poker. And normally, loss are avoidable. But you noticed that you loss more than normal. You will start to get suspicious. And maybe you voice out. If not you, someone will. Then couple hundreds of people raise such concerns too. Before you know it, the whole community is complaining. Obviously, then there is a reduced number of trust. Then people begin not to play the game.

From a popular game to a game that died because AI decided to take over and became to perfect for players.

Due to the excessive use of AI, at times it may happen that those who are playing may think that we are actually playing with humans or there is AI involved here. Again, many may think that if we compete with humans, we may win, but if we compete with AI, we will never be able to. In that case, many may give up the game. Although the problem is not AI, but the problem is the misuse of AI. However, I do not think that this will completely stop poker or ruin its joy, but due to its excessive use, the confidence of the players may decrease.