The psychology of a HODLer

[ParabellumLite]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

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[inca]

You posted a load of bollocks on here yesterday, too.

Nothing goes straight up. Look at the chart going back further than December 2013 to get an idea why bitcoin aficionado's hope for further returns in the future.

Scarcity coupled with adoption means unless bitcoin fails its price will rise, and likely rise significantly.

Everyone on here knows bitcoin is a high risk investment. Those of us who hold btc as part of a portfolio do so expecting returns over years rather than hours or days.

You have sold. Attempting to spread FUD on here at what may turn out to be near the turning point (in the hope of buying in lower) is pretty low.

[ParabellumLite]

You posted a load of bollocks on here yesterday, too.


You have sold. Attempting to spread FUD on here at what may turn out to be near the turning point (in the hope of buying in lower) is pretty low.

Well to be honest, I wont even consider buying back even if Bitcoin hits double digits. This experiment isn't alive among the people and is only being talked about by a select few that are 'convinced' that Satoshi reinvented the wheel.

But to summarize the part that actually dealt with this topic: you believe that people HODL (only) for 'the long run'? Curious.

[knightcoin]

You posted a load of bollocks on here yesterday, too.


You have sold. Attempting to spread FUD on here at what may turn out to be near the turning point (in the hope of buying in lower) is pretty low.

Well to be honest, I wont even consider buying back even if Bitcoin hits double digits. This experiment isn't alive among the people and is only being talked about by a select few that are 'convinced' that Satoshi reinvented the wheel.
But to summarize the part that actually dealt with this topic: you believe that people HODL (only) for 'the long run'? Curious.

Do you have any idea about what was the main problem bitcoin had solved as trustless/consensus/cryptology protocol ?

[JimboToronto]

Attempting to spread FUD on here at what may turn out to be near the turning point (in the hope of buying in lower) is pretty low.

Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.

Don't assume he's intentionally spreading FUD. He might actually believe that nonsense he was spewing.

[Meman]

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

Once their position turns deep into red, they all become "long term investors".
Later, they desperately sell their position near the price bottom. It's magic.

[ParabellumLite]

Attempting to spread FUD on here at what may turn out to be near the turning point (in the hope of buying in lower) is pretty low.

Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.

Don't assume he's intentionally spreading FUD. He might actually believe that nonsense he was spewing.

These boards at its finest again. I guess I've seen enough. Such hostility again .

[inca]

Attempting to spread FUD on here at what may turn out to be near the turning point (in the hope of buying in lower) is pretty low.

Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.

Don't assume he's intentionally spreading FUD. He might actually believe that nonsense he was spewing.

I imagine most people hold a speculative asset that has consistently risen over the medium term because they expect it to rise over the long term.

We could all be wrong and it may fall to zero. That's called risk. Next silly question.

[Jutarul]

Your post is misleading. There is not one type of HODLer. There are many different reasons to become a "HODLer".

However, I tend to distinguish two kinds of underlying characteristics for strong HODLers:
a) rational
b) irrational

Irrational is mainly driven by greed and speculation, and is usually fueled by the "hope" that bitcoin valuation will be greater in the future. These people are subject to emotional barriers and run the risk of cashing out at the wrong time.

Rational is mainly driven by wealth creation strategies which are mainly based on risk management strategies. E.g. if you have invested $10k in bitcoin in 2011 and have cashed out $10k by now your "investment risk" is zero. Of course this assumes that you do not count your remaining bitcoin position towards your liquid or cash-based assets. Also there are a lot of "rational" investor strategies which do not result in HODLers - it really depends on your underlying investment philosophy. For an example of a rational HODLing strategy read this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345065.0

[freebit13]

Your post is misleading. There is not one type of HODLer. There are many different reasons to become a "HODLer".

However, I tend to distinguish two kinds of underlying characteristics for strong HODLers:
a) rational
b) irrational

Irrational is mainly driven by greed and speculation, and is usually fueled by the "hope" that bitcoin valuation will be greater in the future. These people are subject to emotional barriers and run the risk of cashing out at the wrong time.

Rational is mainly driven by wealth creation strategies which are mainly based on risk management strategies. E.g. if you have invested $10k in bitcoin in 2011 and have cashed out $10k by now your "investment risk" is zero. Of course this assumes that you do not count your remaining bitcoin position towards your liquid or cash-based assets. Also there are a lot of "rational" investor strategies which do not result in HODLers - it really depends on your underlying investment philosophy. For an example of a rational HODLing strategy read this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345065.0

Exactly this, not everybody bought in at the top a few months ago. I've already withdrawn my original fiat investment, bought mining hardware, handed out paper wallets to friends and family and I've still got enough coins to put a smile on my face.

It's not a religion, it's just that many of us see and understand the potential that bitcoin has and know that it will continue, regardless of the price on the exchanges and we will continue to support it accordingly.

P.S. Thanks so much for the OP, it has given me an insight into the psychology of a panic seller, I've never quite understood them, but now I see it's probably because they only got in with the prospect of making a quick buck and have no idea about the actual protocol...

[ParabellumLite]

Your post is misleading. There is not one type of HODLer. There are many different reasons to become a "HODLer".

However, I tend to distinguish two kinds of underlying characteristics for strong HODLers:
a) rational
b) irrational

Irrational is mainly driven by greed and speculation, and is usually fueled by the "hope" that bitcoin valuation will be greater in the future. These people are subject to emotional barriers and run the risk of cashing out at the wrong time.

Rational is mainly driven by wealth creation strategies which are mainly based on risk management strategies. E.g. if you have invested $10k in bitcoin in 2011 and have cashed out $10k by now your "investment risk" is zero. Of course this assumes that you do not count your remaining bitcoin position towards your liquid or cash-based assets. Also there are a lot of "rational" investor strategies which do not result in HODLers - it really depends on your underlying investment philosophy. For an example of a rational HODLing strategy read this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345065.0

Exactly this, not everybody bought in at the top a few months ago. I've already withdrawn my original fiat investment, bought mining hardware, handed out paper wallets to friends and family and I've still got enough coins to put a smile on my face.

It's not a religion, it's just that many of us see and understand the potential that bitcoin has and know that it will continue, regardless of the price on the exchanges and we will continue to support it accordingly.

P.S. Thanks so much for the OP, it has given me an insight into the psychology of a panic seller, I've never quite understood them, but now I see it's probably because they only got in with the prospect of making a quick buck and have no idea about the actual protocol...

I will bookmark this, just in case if things turn ugly. It will be a good testimony about the arrogance of some people on these boards during what might will be called 'the good old days' in the future. If selling without any losses  and after thinking about it for days makes me a panic seller, then that's ok. You are entitled to define 'a panic seller' as such.

You call it no religion, yet ironically immediatly start ranting about the 'potential' of Bitcoin. Apparantly you have to be part of the club to see the 'potential' first hand. Many still don't and many probably never will. But I guess that doesn't matter: you've set your mind on this.

[Torque]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

Wow, the intelligence level of this sub forum has fallen to an all time low.  I don't even know where to begin.  So now anyone in the masses that buys bitcoin is considered a religious fanatic?  I guess everyone that acquires fiat currency of one kind or another is considered a religious fanatic too?

It's very simple: the masses that acquire and want to use bitcoin simply believe that it is a BETTER form of currency than any other option they are given atm.  And yes, they believe that it is a paradigm shift in currency and what currency should be now and in the future.  What part of this simple statement don't you understand?

If you can't understand this, then what are you doing here?

[ParabellumLite]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

Wow, the intelligence level of this sub forum has fallen to an all time low.  I don't even know where to begin.  So now anyone in the masses that buys bitcoin is considered a religious fanatic?  I guess everyone that acquires fiat currency of one kind or another is considered a religious fanatic too?

It's very simple: the masses that acquire and want to use bitcoin simply believe that it is a BETTER form of currency than any other option they are given atm.  And yes, they believe that it is a paradigm shift in currency and what currency should be now and in the future.  What part of this simple statement don't you understand?

If you can't understand this, then what are you doing here?

You completely rip my post out of context. First of all: I wasn't talking about 'anyone'. I know it's useful to frame me in that way, but I won't allow it.  I was talking about the people that believe that Bitcoin is some unrivaled paradigm that can't be stopped. The possiblity that it will fail seem to be pretty much non-existent to them, at least in the short them. I wonder why so many HODLers seem to ignore certain possiblities, like the chance that Bitcoin will fail. At least: that's what it looks like at the surface.

And talking about religion: if you look arounds these boards, a lot of people seem to revere Bitcoin like it's the Bible, and they believe they have this god's silver bullet to kill the current system. It's nothing less than naive idealism to assume that Bitcoin will be allowed to go around unchecked by governments. They will not allow it.

[spazzdla]

"I don't understand people that hold onto something that they view as valuable but I don't please explain"  I don't think there is ne possbility of explaining friend.

[sporket]

...
Wow, the intelligence level of this sub forum has fallen to an all time low.  I don't even know where to begin.  So now anyone in the masses that buys bitcoin is considered a religious fanatic?  I guess everyone that acquires fiat currency of one kind or another is considered a religious fanatic too?

If I had to buy my fiat in the street or depend on "exchanges" which charge me fees before absconding with all mah money, you'd have a point.  As it stands, your comparison falls a bit flat.

It's very simple: the masses that acquire and want to use bitcoin simply believe that it is a BETTER form of currency than any other option they are given atm. ...

Wat?  You're posting on a speculation forum.  We buy Bitcoin because we think the price will move.

[Asrael999]

http://expectedpayoff.com/blog/2013/03/22/bitcoin-and-the-byzantine-generals-problem/

[porcupine87]

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.

I think many bitcoiners are really emotional. But that is normal. For many writers here Bitcoin is a life-time opportunity. They see the value that Bitcoin brings. You mentioned that with no word. Fast and cheap. And because not many people are aware of that at the moment, the price is low but can 10fold or 100fold. What asset do you know which can 10 easily 10fold with a relative high expectation value? I don't see one. The stock market seems to be overvalued and interet rates are low.

But I think there are also investors which have no idea of the value of Bitcoin or don't think people will adopt it. That is ok. So they cannot understand why people hold.

Important: Every trend has a limit. Just because we are in a downtrend now, this doesn't mean we will go down to 1$ and never go back. Maybe yesterday the 340$ was the bottom. Maybe not. But if you believe in the long time value of Bitcoin and sold yesterday all of your coins at 350$ you might be more frustrated than just holding...

[podyx]

HODLing isn't a way to make money

it's a lifestyle

[Hunyadi]

HODLing isn't a way to make money

it's a lifestyle

True.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1qooBzE2w

[magicmexican]

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

Once their position turns deep into red, they all become "long term investors".
Later, they desperately sell their position near the price bottom. It's magic.

Dunno, i bought some ltc @4$ and saw it go as low as 50-70 cents, didnt bother me back then, i knew that its volatile and that my plan is to hold at least a year.

People who want quick and easy profit without "things getting too scary" should go broke and noone should feel bad for them

[seljo]

Hodling is a way of life. The important part of hodling is to have bitcoins and have absolutly no reason to sell them, the rest you can figure out yourself.

[frienemy]

It's like hodling your dick while peeing. If you let it go and try to catch it as it falls lower, you might end up in a great mess if you're not an expert. So the hodlers hodl on tight and believe in the potential of the thingy they hodl in their hands. Quite simple

Edit: I'm not shorting!

[spazzdla]

Hodling is a way of life. The important part of hodling is to have bitcoins and have absolutly no reason to sell them, the rest you can figure out yourself.

, I like this as I really have zero reason to ever sell.

[yenom]

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

Firstly TA is total bullshit.
Secondly, the fundamentals of bitcoin get stronger every day. Eventually they prevail and the value increases.

[sporket]

...
Secondly, the fundamentals of bitcoin get stronger every day. ...

What are these fundamentals and how are they getting stronger?

[jubalix]

ops brain is sporked by the magnitude of the change BTC is to human history. That's ok op....not everyone make it though the evolutionary filter.

[sporket]

wat
*word salad?

[ashaw596]

We hold, because we have no other choice psychologically speaking. Actualizing loss is very hard for people to do. No matter, we think of loss in USD and being left with only fiat and no chance of a rebound is too psychologically harming. Also this.
http://www.imgverse.com/tagged/mr-bean
http://www.brainlesstales.com/images/misc/bitcoin-roller-coaster.gif

Anyways. Meh. I'm holding. 

[freebit13]

Exactly this, not everybody bought in at the top a few months ago. I've already withdrawn my original fiat investment, bought mining hardware, handed out paper wallets to friends and family and I've still got enough coins to put a smile on my face.

It's not a religion, it's just that many of us see and understand the potential that bitcoin has and know that it will continue, regardless of the price on the exchanges and we will continue to support it accordingly.

P.S. Thanks so much for the OP, it has given me an insight into the psychology of a panic seller, I've never quite understood them, but now I see it's probably because they only got in with the prospect of making a quick buck and have no idea about the actual protocol...

I will bookmark this, just in case if things turn ugly. It will be a good testimony about the arrogance of some people on these boards during what might will be called 'the good old days' in the future. If selling without any losses  and after thinking about it for days makes me a panic seller, then that's ok. You are entitled to define 'a panic seller' as such.

No, this is what makes you a panic seller...

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Blah, blah, blah..

You call it no religion, yet ironically immediatly start ranting about the 'potential' of Bitcoin. Apparantly you have to be part of the club to see the 'potential' first hand. Many still don't and many probably never will. But I guess that doesn't matter: you've set your mind on this.

Ranting? Really? Please re-read what I wrote, I was not ranting, I was merely stating my opinion. It's clear that you have some sort of bent against religion, but you can't go around comparing everything to it, it just makes you look uninformed.

Read the whitepaper, read some code, try to understand what the protocol is and what Satoshi has solved, you might understand a little better where some of us are coming from... it's not just blind faith, it's called education.

[piramida]

despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in

Ok I am sure you aren't really looking for an answer, but I'll answer anyway, pretending you actually want to know. Bitcoin is in no situation - in fact, it is stronger than ever, th network is growing at an amazing rate, bad exchange got weeded out, we have serious coverage in respectable media, and businesses are multiplying by the day. It was designed to work despite world-wide ban, so some countries taking a hostile approach is only a minor delay on the way to domination. Instead of 5 years it will take 6, big deal.

With that in mind, consider that owning bitcoin is the same as having some stock in this booming industry. Why would you sell when the fundamentals are greater than ever and the price is bottoming out at 25% of the all time high? Of course, you might for a short-term speculation or if you don't see the fundamentals (they are not measurable by the standards you are used to, and it is actually hard to see the real potential bitcoin network has at this point - not everyone is a visionary, some people need to be shown the end result application; thing is, when it will be available, the price would be not in three or four, but at least five digit range - because when everyone "gets it", demand would be way higher than when only a few understand).

So, tldr answer - we hold because we *know* bitcoin is just now raising from it's infant years. Stronger than ever. Short-term price is of no importance, unless you want to play the roulette, then it's fine, just don't try to judge those who see beyond 5-minute ticker. Right now (everything below $600) is a great buying opportunity, in 2015 people would brag that they bought bitcoins in three digits, mark my words.

[Syke]

It's like hodling your dick while peeing. If you let it go and try to catch it as it falls lower, you might end up in a great mess if you're not an expert. So the hodlers hodl on tight and believe in the potential of the thingy they hodl in their hands. Quite simple

Hodlers are long.

[njcarlos]

Well, I am looking for answers hence the topic . Nothing is set in stone for me personally, and I will adjust my opinion when necessary, especially if I feel that I'm 'off'.
Thanks for your clear answer.

No you weren't, you were looking to pick an argument like a child. No one looking for answers uses a passive aggressive tone with the person from whom they're seeking answers.

[cypherdoc]

It's nothing less than naive idealism to assume that Bitcoin will be allowed to go around unchecked by governments. They will not allow it.

isn't this a religious statement as well?

[dancupid]

I've held onto my Bitcoins through all this (again)
I'm just not willing to put then on an exchange - I lost $7000 and 250btc when Bitcoinica collapsed. I learnt my lesson.
I have my Bitcoins now and they are mine.

A bitcoin in the hand is worth two in the exchange.

[bitcoinsrus]

I've held onto my Bitcoins through all this (again)
I'm just not willing to put then on an exchange - I lost $7000 and 250btc when Bitcoinica collapsed. I learnt my lesson.
I have my Bitcoins now and they are mine.

A bitcoin in the hand is worth two in the exchange.

Wow 250 btc.

[piramida]

I've held onto my Bitcoins through all this (again)
I'm just not willing to put then on an exchange - I lost $7000 and 250btc when Bitcoinica collapsed. I learnt my lesson.
I have my Bitcoins now and they are mine.

A bitcoin in the hand is worth two in the exchange.

Wow 250 btc.

these were $10 coins, so $7000 is a much bigger loss. I gambled away like 500 back then; having 200 at some stupid site like bitcoinica was common.

[podyx]

I've held onto my Bitcoins through all this (again)
I'm just not willing to put then on an exchange - I lost $7000 and 250btc when Bitcoinica collapsed. I learnt my lesson.
I have my Bitcoins now and they are mine.

A bitcoin in the hand is worth two in the exchange.

Wow 250 btc.

these were $10 coins, so $7000 is a much bigger loss. I gambled away like 500 back then; having 200 at some stupid site like bitcoinica was common.

In my opinion he lost 250(btc)x430=$__

Saying that he lost $2500 because he bought at $10 is kinda like saying bill gates is broke cause it's a time question of when the dollar collapse(Yes, I do realize he's diversifying, it's not literally..)

[dancupid]

I've held onto my Bitcoins through all this (again)
I'm just not willing to put then on an exchange - I lost $7000 and 250btc when Bitcoinica collapsed. I learnt my lesson.
I have my Bitcoins now and they are mine.

A bitcoin in the hand is worth two in the exchange.

Wow 250 btc.

these were $10 coins, so $7000 is a much bigger loss. I gambled away like 500 back then; having 200 at some stupid site like bitcoinica was common.

In my opinion he lost 250(btc)x430=$__

Saying that he lost $2500 because he bought at $10 is kinda like saying bill gates is broke cause it's a time question of when the dollar collapse(Yes, I do realize he's diversifying, it's not literally..)

I bought another 250btc at that time though to cover my loss. And Zhou Tong compensated me with 75btc.
I stopped worrying about the $7000 a long time ago (if you can call 2 years a long time).

[bitcoinsrus]

I've held onto my Bitcoins through all this (again)
I'm just not willing to put then on an exchange - I lost $7000 and 250btc when Bitcoinica collapsed. I learnt my lesson.
I have my Bitcoins now and they are mine.

A bitcoin in the hand is worth two in the exchange.

Wow 250 btc.

these were $10 coins, so $7000 is a much bigger loss. I gambled away like 500 back then; having 200 at some stupid site like bitcoinica was common.

In my opinion he lost 250(btc)x430=$__

Saying that he lost $2500 because he bought at $10 is kinda like saying bill gates is broke cause it's a time question of when the dollar collapse(Yes, I do realize he's diversifying, it's not literally..)

I bought another 250btc at that time though to cover my loss. And Zhou Tong compensated me with 75btc.
I stopped worrying about the $7000 a long time ago (if you can call 2 years a long time).

$10 dollar coins, wow.  Where was I lol.  Do you guys think I am too late to profit off bitcoin.  I always read about the older investors getting really cheap coins.  What about a newb like me, is the big time profiting over?

[piramida]

I've held onto my Bitcoins through all this (again)
I'm just not willing to put then on an exchange - I lost $7000 and 250btc when Bitcoinica collapsed. I learnt my lesson.
I have my Bitcoins now and they are mine.

A bitcoin in the hand is worth two in the exchange.

Wow 250 btc.

these were $10 coins, so $7000 is a much bigger loss. I gambled away like 500 back then; having 200 at some stupid site like bitcoinica was common.

In my opinion he lost 250(btc)x430=$__

Saying that he lost $2500 because he bought at $10 is kinda like saying bill gates is broke cause it's a time question of when the dollar collapse(Yes, I do realize he's diversifying, it's not literally..)

No, this is an incorrect opinion. the value of 400$ per btc is derived from having that btc + hodling on to those btc for couple of years. So unless you actually held that coins all that time and didn't sell or lose, then yes, they'd be worth that much. But the fact is, that it is very hard to just hold and not sell when the price grows to like $30 per coin

Also, at the time of the loss, $2500 would be able to buy back every coin that he lost and then some. So he did not lose $300k, he lost *potential* to maybe have them several years later, that is different. You just lost this potential today, because you didn't sell your house and didn't buy cheap coins at $300 - see, you just lost millions!

[ArticMine]

Take a look at the holders and more often than not their activity level on his forum is in the 500+ range. This is an indicator that they have been with Bitcoin since early 2012 or 2011 and in some cases 2010 or even 2009. This means they initially got into Bitcoin in the single digits or below in some cases cents or even fraction of a cent.

I suspect in addition most of the following is true:
They have managed to keep a significant portion of their initial bitcoin, other wise they would not still be around.
They have sold the rest at a sizeable profit in fiat terms but at prices far below the current market, low double digits, single digits, even below etc, and deeply regret having done so.
They have more than taken out their initial fiat investment.
They have sizeable unrealised capital gains in bitcoin that would trigger a very ugly tax bill should they sell. The depends on the jurisdiction, but would require a drop in the market in many cases over 30% just to break even.
They have been through multiple bit bull and bit bear markets.
Bitcoin may account for a very significant portion if not the majority of their net worth.
They have done their research and believe there is a very high likelihood that bitcoin will appreciate by a few orders of magnitude higher in the coming years.
They have been exposed to one or more of the following MTGox, Bitcoinica, pirateat40, another failed exchange, wallet service etc. They may have escaped unscathed or suffered a loss. This will lead to an increase fear of trusting their BTC to any exchange.  
They can sleep better, and have lower blood pressure, being long in a bear market than short in a bull market.  

All of this leads to a very high perceived risk of selling vs the possible gain of buying back at a much lower price. So the safe strategy is HOLD.

[knightcoin]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

A Bitcoin Prayer
Our Satoshi, who art in hiding
Hallowed be thy name
Thy protocol done
Wallets will come
On clients as they are on paper
Give us this day our daily Bitcoin
And forgive us our speculation
As we forgive those who use silk road
And lead us not into no confirmation
But deliver us from fiat
For thine is the blockchain, the power and the glory
For ever and ever

Anon

[bitcoinsrus]

A Bitcoin Prayer
Our Satoshi, who art in hiding
Hallowed be thy name
Thy protocol done
Wallets will come
On clients as they are on paper
Give us this day our daily Bitcoin
And forgive us our speculation
As we forgive those who use silk road
And lead us not into no confirmation
But deliver us from fiat
For thine is the blockchain, the power and the glory
For ever and ever

Anon
[/quote]

Amen

[molecular]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.
b
Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

Hi, long time hodler here (I did sell and spend BTC over the last 3 years, but had I never sold or spent any, I'd have only 50% more than I have now... I consider that pretty stubborn tight hodling. I held on all the way from $32 to $1.96 or whatever it was in late 2011, even buying more on the way down. Of course, had I sold and bought back in at the right times I would now have 10,000% or more than what I have now)

I'll try to explain my psychology... can't speak for every hodler out there:

First, let's begin by explaining that I think crypot is better money that fiat. I had gotten into Bitcoin because it was technically fascinating to me. Then I learned a bit about money in general and become a sound money advocate. I think this might be a key difference between you (let's make that some hypothetical you) and me: you "think in fiat", I "think in BTC". I try to increase my crypto-stash, you try to make a fiat-profit. You go to sleep with fiat, I go to sleep with BTC. You can't understand how people can hold on to BTC during a month-long bear-market, I can't understand how people can "wait for the next dip" in BTC bull markets.

Furthermore: greed had gotten the better of me at times (during 2012 and 2013 mainly) and I saw people increase their BTC-stash by large percentages by selling high and buying low, so I tried that in order to acquire more BTC. I failed miserably because the market got away from me repeatedly. The attempt failed more often than not (it was mostly a bull market after all, so what do you expect given a non-experienced trader like me). Those experiences stuck with me and I have decided that holding is the best strategy for me (and selling a little bit for fiat/metal at times in order to not have to hear "see, I told you so, you should've sold" from friends and also of course because of fear).

Also: I think I'm quite a bit more relaxed than you picture the average hodler to be: Bitcoin could go to 0 and I'd still have a good life after that. I'd be quite sad and angry for a while for sure (depending on the circumstances, of course), but I'd be able to get on with my life, both financially and psychologically.

About that "religious devotion": I really do think crypto will change (is already changing) the world for the better. You might call that naive or romantic or whatnot, but I do believe that. And believe me: I ponder the dangers crypto and bitcoin (might) face every day and reassess my views on a regular basis, trying to keep an open mind. There have indeed been times when I thought some bitcoin 2.0 alt could steal the show and I'm not ruling it out 100% (would it be so bad? After all it would be way better than bitcoin!). My belief that BTC will remain the main carrier of value in the crypto space and the most secure blockchain for quite a while has lately been reinforced, though. Even to the point where I sold 1/3rd of my alts (mainly LTC, PPC) last week, something I had only once done before. So I don't "discard any possibilities" and "say stuff to myself". I try to assess reality and make projections... with varying success, of course.

;tldr: It's not desperation or mania, it's just a different (possibly wrong) assessment of reality and projection of the future.

[ArticMine]

...

Furthermore: greed had gotten the better of me at times (during 2012 and 2013 mainly) and I saw people increase their BTC-stash by large percentages by selling high and buying low, so I tried that in order to acquire more BTC. I failed miserably because the market got away from me repeatedly. The attempt failed more often than not (it was mostly a bull market after all, so what do you expect given a non-experienced trader like me). Those experiences stuck with me and I have decided that holding is the best strategy for me (and selling a little bit for fiat/metal at times in order to not have to hear "see, I told you so, you should've sold" from friends and also of course because of fear).

Also: I think I'm quite a bit more relaxed than you picture the average hodler to be: Bitcoin could go to 0 and I'd still have a good life after that. I'd be quite sad and angry for a while for sure (depending on the circumstances, of course), but I'd be able to get on with my life, both financially and psychologically.

...

This is critical in understanding the psychology of the holder. Greed and fear are reversed. Bitcoin becomes "the money" and fiat "the investment". Selling is actually driven by greed and not fear since it is done with the objective of actually acquiring more bitcoin by engaging in a buy fiat low sell fiat high strategy that more often than not can fail.

[tripper22]

You posted a load of bollocks on here yesterday, too.


You have sold. Attempting to spread FUD on here at what may turn out to be near the turning point (in the hope of buying in lower) is pretty low.

Well to be honest, I wont even consider buying back even if Bitcoin hits double digits. This experiment isn't alive among the people and is only being talked about by a select few that are 'convinced' that Satoshi reinvented the wheel.

But to summarize the part that actually dealt with this topic: you believe that people HODL (only) for 'the long run'? Curious.

Then get the fuck out of here then. Do you really think you are saving anyone? Everyone here knows that they can win or lose. It's idiot trolls like you that have turned this forum into a Bitcoin Ghetto.

[molecular]

Take a look at the holders and more often than not their activity level on his forum is in the 500+ range. This is an indicator that they have been with Bitcoin since early 2012 or 2011 and in some cases 2010 or even 2009. This means they initially got into Bitcoin in the single digits or below in some cases cents or even fraction of a cent.

I suspect in addition most of the following is true:
They have managed to keep a significant portion of their initial bitcoin, other wise they would not still be around.
They have sold the rest at a sizeable profit in fiat terms but at prices far below the current market, low double digits, single digits, even below etc, and deeply regret having done so.
They have more than taken out their initial fiat investment.
They have sizeable unrealised capital gains in bitcoin that would trigger a very ugly tax bill should they sell. The depends on the jurisdiction, but would require a drop in the market in many cases over 30% just to break even.
They have been through multiple bit bull and bit bear markets.
Bitcoin may account for a very significant portion if not the majority of their net worth.
They have done their research and believe there is a very high likelihood that bitcoin will appreciate by a few orders of magnitude higher in the coming years.
They have been exposed to one or more of the following MTGox, Bitcoinica, pirateat40, another failed exchange, wallet service etc. They may have escaped unscathed or suffered a loss. This will lead to an increase fear of trusting their BTC to any exchange.  
They can sleep better, and have lower blood pressure, being long in a bear market than short in a bull market.  

All of this leads to a very high perceived risk of selling vs the possible gain of buying back at a much lower price. So the safe strategy is HOLD.

   ________
  |        |
  |        |
   \      /
    |    |___________________________
    |    |                           |
    |    |___________________________|
    |    |
   /      \
  |        |  <---- hammer
  |________|

<== THWACK! ==>
     ____
      ||   
      ||
      ||      <---- nail
      ||
      ||
      \/

[molecular]

It's nothing less than naive idealism to assume that Bitcoin will be allowed to go around unchecked by governments. They will not allow it.

Here's another tangent on holder psychology:

What is this slave mentality? The governments are not our parents giving us "allowances", they exist to serve the people and they're doing a damn bad job these days. It's time to separate money and state!

[cypherdoc]

It's nothing less than naive idealism to assume that Bitcoin will be allowed to go around unchecked by governments. They will not allow it.

Here's another tangent on holder psychology:

What is this slave mentality? The governments are not our parents giving us "allowances", they exist to serve the people and they're doing a damn bad job these days. It's time to separate money and state!

like i said, it's a religion.

[Keyser Soze]

I am a hodler because I am not interested in the short term price movements. Fundamentals of Bitcoin have not changed, no reason to change the course.

[molecular]

It's nothing less than naive idealism to assume that Bitcoin will be allowed to go around unchecked by governments. They will not allow it.

Here's another tangent on holder psychology:

What is this slave mentality? The governments are not our parents giving us "allowances", they exist to serve the people and they're doing a damn bad job these days. It's time to separate money and state!

like i said, it's a religion.

look to the left... I'm a very religious guy.

[BitCoinsLOL]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

You cashed out when things got a bit scary and now you want to talk about the psychology of a holder. Stop IT!

[yenom]

What are these fundamentals and how are they getting stronger?

I assume you are trolling, in case you're not, have a look here. http://www.bitcoinpulse.com/

[piramida]

Take a look at the holders and more often than not their activity level on his forum is in the 500+ range. This is an indicator that they have been with Bitcoin since early 2012 or 2011 and in some cases 2010 or even 2009. This means they initially got into Bitcoin in the single digits or below in some cases cents or even fraction of a cent.

I suspect in addition most of the following is true:
They have managed to keep a significant portion of their initial bitcoin, other wise they would not still be around.
They have sold the rest at a sizeable profit in fiat terms but at prices far below the current market, low double digits, single digits, even below etc, and deeply regret having done so.
They have more than taken out their initial fiat investment.
They have sizeable unrealised capital gains in bitcoin that would trigger a very ugly tax bill should they sell. The depends on the jurisdiction, but would require a drop in the market in many cases over 30% just to break even.
They have been through multiple bit bull and bit bear markets.
Bitcoin may account for a very significant portion if not the majority of their net worth.
They have done their research and believe there is a very high likelihood that bitcoin will appreciate by a few orders of magnitude higher in the coming years.
They have been exposed to one or more of the following MTGox, Bitcoinica, pirateat40, another failed exchange, wallet service etc. They may have escaped unscathed or suffered a loss. This will lead to an increase fear of trusting their BTC to any exchange.  
They can sleep better, and have lower blood pressure, being long in a bear market than short in a bull market.  

All of this leads to a very high perceived risk of selling vs the possible gain of buying back at a much lower price. So the safe strategy is HOLD.

   ________
  |        |
  |        |
   \      /
    |    |___________________________
    |    |                           |
    |    |___________________________|
    |    |
   /      \
  |        |  <---- hammer
  |________|

<== THWACK! ==>
     ____
      ||   
      ||
      ||      <---- nail
      ||
      ||
      \/

confirmed. I also like the reversed fear/greed comment, makes sense. I really do feel my money are safer in bitcoin, no matter what the price is currently doing. Just learn to put it in before bitcoin rallies not jump on when it is peaking, that would also give you a peace of mind. So if somebody buys now, he'll be a happy hodler during the next rally, simple, if he manages to live through the scared hodler phaze first

[lemfuture]

i get annoyed when i see and read the world hodl, kinda like how brian from family guy hate when stewie mentions "cool hwip"

[agf]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

It is a forum, 100, 200, 500 people claiming bitcoin will hit $100.000. You will find the same mania in other forums, just different subject.

[xDan]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

Because Bitcoin really is such a ground breaking system. Like internet in early days, we won't see the true innovations that are going to result for years or even decades. But they *will* result.

This isn't mindless religion; this reasonable appreciation of a genius innovation and new paradigm for programmable money.

The only possible worry is that a different crypto could take over, but with spin-offs and two way pegging this is appearing more and more unlikely.

Edit: Oh, and for anybody in over a year, Bitcoin is still up at least, what, 500%? There's simply no cause for concern for any HODLers.

[Junko]

Same old story, different OP.

From the weak and scared hands into those of the strong and brave. EZ game.

[BittBurger]

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in.

Oh no.  Its not a religious devotion.  Its fact-based rational confidence.  Knowing all the latest news.  Speeches at the most recent conferences.  Hours spent listening to the latest Podcasts from Lets Talk Bitcoin.  Hearing what is going on in adoption around the world.  Interviews with the people in Africa lobbying the Govt for Bitcoin assimilation.  Argentina.  Canada.  Europe. Singapore. Knowing about Bitcoin 2.0 projects.  Images on Twitter of 400 new ATMs about to go live in Dubai. Following Ben Lawsky on twitter.  Hearing the latest sales numbers from Overstock and TigerDirect.  Being the first to know about Square.  St Louis Fed Reserve rep comments.  The senator who put together the "Bitcoin is Currency" bill he planned to bring before the govt. 

Because of the obvious massive adoption and growth going on, I know that "holding" will pay off one day.  There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be cashing out yet.  None.  Doing so reflects a complete lack of awareness of what media outlets like LTB and Coinsider This are trying to convey to all of us.  

The day I get the true vibe that the infrastructure is beginning to fail, is the day I cash out.  I continue to be bewildered by the sheer volume of people on this website who have absolutely no knowledge of whats going on out there in infrastructure and adoption.  If you guys put more effort into knowing whats happening, you would have the rational confidence necessary to be a holder too.

-B-

[uhoh]

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in.

Oh no.  Its not a religious devotion.  Its a devotion based on actual information.  Facts.  Speeches at the most recent conferences.  Hours spent listening to the latest Podcasts from Lets Talk Bitcoin.  Hearing what is going on in adoption around the world.  Interviews with the people in Africa lobbying the Govt for Bitcoin assimilation.  Argentina.  Canada.  Europe.  Knowing about Bitcoin 2.0 projects.  ATM installations.  Images on Twitter of 400 new ATMs about to go live in Dubai.  Staying abreast of the latest news.  

Because of the obvious massive adoption and growth going on, I know that "holding" will pay off one day.  There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be cashing out yet.  None.  Doing so reflects a complete lack of awareness of what media outlets like LTB and Coinsider This are trying to convey to all of us. 

The day I get the true vibe that the infrastructure is beginning to fail, is the day I cash out.  It makes absolutely NO SENSE to cash out before then.  I continue to be bewildered by the sheer volume of people on this website who have absolutely no knowledge of whats going on out there in infrastructure and adoption.  Who is attending these international conferences, and what's being said.  If you guys put more effort into knowing whats happening, you would never have cashed out yet.  Not even once.

-B-

Must agree, there has never been a more obscene time to get out of Bitcoin than right now.

In regards the point about people spouting random price targets; when we were at $13 last January people were shouting that BTC will be at $1000 by years end. I thought they were crazy.

[johnyj]

FED is printing 2.5 Billion USD per day and bitcoin is 3600 coins per day, go figure

[favelle75]

You don't actually "lose money" until you sell.  Just like stocks. The real hodlers know this. How do you think the noobs that sold at the $350 bottom this week feel?  Not as good as the true hodlers, I'll tell you that much!

[shmadz]

You don't actually "lose money" until you sell.  Just like stocks. The real hodlers know this. How do you think the noobs that sold at the $350 bottom this week feel?  Not as good as the true hodlers, I'll tell you that much!

Real hodlers are prepared for the fact that bitcoin could be worth zero tomorrow.

[Bit_Happy]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

Hodlers are lemmings who purposely misspell a word so they can feel at home with other lemmings. 

[molecular]

Hodlers are lemmings who purposely misspell a word so they can feel at home with other lemmings. 

Hodlers are toddlers on heroin? Makes sense.

[xavier]

Yup I agree with OP 100%.

Hold is not the best strategy.

Bitcoin is a religion for many, that's why it has further to go down.

Right now, bitcoin is pure speculation. It is not backed by anything. The value of bitcoin is based on speculation about the future financial system.

The changes to the world required for bitcoin to attain significant value are huge. That's what makes it a particularly high risk investment.

There is nothing religious about bitcoin. It is a high risk investment just like any other. Would you continue to hold a stock that has depreciated 60% from ATH ?

Whilst these "HODL" People are spreading their bullshit here, and whilst the religious nature of bitcoin still prevails, the bear market lives on.

[altsay]

Hodlers gonna hodl, sodlers gonna sodl.

[freebit13]

Yup I agree with OP 100%.

Hold is not the best strategy.

Bitcoin is a religion for many, that's why it has further to go down.

Right now, bitcoin is pure speculation. It is not backed by anything. The value of bitcoin is based on speculation about the future financial system.

The changes to the world required for bitcoin to attain significant value are huge. That's what makes it a particularly high risk investment.

There is nothing religious about bitcoin. It is a high risk investment just like any other. Would you continue to hold a stock that has depreciated 60% from ATH ?

Whilst these "HODL" People are spreading their bullshit here, and whilst the religious nature of bitcoin still prevails, the bear market lives on.

So, tell us then... what exactly, is gold backed by?

[koryu]

Hodlers gonna hodl, sodlers gonna sodl.

hodlers gonna daytrade ltc/xbt and are stil hodling cryptos

[knightcoin]

It's depends ...  a Commodity Trading Advisor and futures manager can have a diferrent perspective about it ..so it really doesnot matter if we trade the S&P 500 Index, rough rice, bonds, gold, bitcoin or even live hogs. They are all just futures which can be treated in exactly the same way. Now let's talk about baskets and eggs ..

Bitcoin is the future so let's think as futures managers ; but lazzy as programmers so just lets #incude some lib .h

// Quote from book "Following the Trend: Diversified Managed Futures Trading" by Andreas Clenow (5 starts )

the most widely held asset class, in particular among the general public, is equities; that is, shares of corporations trading on stock exchanges. The academic community along with most large banks and financial institutions have long told the public that buying and holding equities over long periods of time is a safe and prudent method of investing and this has created a huge market for equity mutual funds. These funds are generally seen as responsible long-term investments that always go up in the long run, and there is a good chance that even a large part of your pension plan is invested in equity mutual funds for that very reason. The ubiquitous advice from banks is that you should hold a combination of equity mutual funds and bond mutual funds and that the younger you are, the larger the weight of the equity funds should be. The reason for the last part is that, although equities do tend to go up in the long run, they are more volatile than bonds and you should take higher financial risks when you are younger since you have time to make your losses back. Furthermore, the advice is generally that you should prefer equity mutual funds over buying single stocks to make sure that you get sufficient diversification and you participate in the overall market instead of taking bets on individual companies which may run into unexpected trouble down the road.

historical data

Then again, if stocks always go up in the long run the correlations should be of lesser importance since you would always make the money back again if you just sit on the stocks and wait a little bit longer. This is absolutely true and if you are a very patient person you are very likely to make money from the stock markets by just buying and holding. From 1976 to 2011 the MSCI World Index rose by 1,300%, so in 35 years you would have made over ten times your initial investment. Of course, if you translate that into annual compound return you will see that this means a yield of just around 8% per year. If you had been so unlucky as to invest in 1999 instead, you would still hold a loss 13 years later of over 20%. Had you invested in 2007 your loss would be even greater. Although equities do tend to move up in the long run, most of us cannot afford to lose a large part of our capital and wait for a half a lifetime to get our money back. If you are lucky and invest in a good year oreven a good decade, the buy-and-hold strategy may work out but it can also turn out to be a really bumpy ride for quite a low return in the end.

So HODL .................  

[jdun]

When I used to trade Forex, I did it with the mindset of a hodler. The problem was that the trading company I was using didn't really like that mindset, especially when they were letting me trade with a 50:1 margin. They automatically closed all my trades once they lost over 50% of the account value. It's really to bad, because if I had held for year, then eventually my account would have gotten out of the red zone.

[favelle75]

You don't actually "lose money" until you sell.  Just like stocks. The real hodlers know this. How do you think the noobs that sold at the $350 bottom this week feel?  Not as good as the true hodlers, I'll tell you that much!

Real hodlers are prepared for the fact that bitcoin could be worth zero tomorrow.

I'll take that bet.

[Ivanhoe]

Hodler = someone who believes in the long term succes of bitcoin but doesn't want to trade for whatever reason.     
/closethread

[devphp]

So what if it's a religion? Religion goes a long way. People die and kill for religion. Hodling for religion is such a trifle compared to those.

[btbrae]

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in.

Oh no.  Its not a religious devotion.  Its fact-based rational confidence.  Knowing all the latest news.  Speeches at the most recent conferences.  Hours spent listening to the latest Podcasts from Lets Talk Bitcoin.  Hearing what is going on in adoption around the world.  Interviews with the people in Africa lobbying the Govt for Bitcoin assimilation.  Argentina.  Canada.  Europe. Singapore. Knowing about Bitcoin 2.0 projects.  Images on Twitter of 400 new ATMs about to go live in Dubai. Following Ben Lawsky on twitter.  Hearing the latest sales numbers from Overstock and TigerDirect.  Being the first to know about Square.  St Louis Fed Reserve rep comments.  The senator who put together the "Bitcoin is Currency" bill he planned to bring before the govt. 

Because of the obvious massive adoption and growth going on, I know that "holding" will pay off one day.  There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be cashing out yet.  None.  Doing so reflects a complete lack of awareness of what media outlets like LTB and Coinsider This are trying to convey to all of us.  

The day I get the true vibe that the infrastructure is beginning to fail, is the day I cash out.  I continue to be bewildered by the sheer volume of people on this website who have absolutely no knowledge of whats going on out there in infrastructure and adoption.  If you guys put more effort into knowing whats happening, you would have the rational confidence necessary to be a holder too.

-B-

I think you're getting a little carried away. The 400 ATMs in Dubai is not happening (http://www.coindesk.com/ded-officials-debunk-bitcoin-atm-speculation-dubai/), the lobby groups so far have been tiny or in some cases just a single person. Overstock and TigerDirect are the best of what you mention but $2-3 million is a drop in a bucket. Don't get me wrong it's all in the right direction, but people got ahead of themselves and the price is correcting to reflect the real adoption rate, which is not as fast as people were estimating. Infact, it has slowed considerably.

[Apraksin]

I bought all my coins for an average of about 80$ sometime after april last year, then took a leaf from rpietila´s strategy and sold a few at 1100$ before xmas to ensure profits, so now I have my original investment back in addition to a nice mining rig for altcoin speculation.

The rest of my BTC is my ticket to the rollercoaster, free of charge. Hodl!

[birr]

Religious:  extremely scrupulous or conscientious

I have hodled religiously since I entered the market.
But if I had been religious in the sense the word is used in this thread I might have recalled Ecclesiastes 3:2 and know there is

a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to cast away coins, and a time to gather coins together;
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away

[Crikien]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

We have come full circle.  How do you feel about these comments that you made in 2014 now that Bitcoin is on the tip of every tongue, grandmother's are asking grandchildren to buy Bitcoin and the mania has clearly headed up towards a peak rather than a trough?   I'm curious as to your state of mind about a $7,000 bitcoin.

[ask]

Hodler psychology is simple and Hodlers always did the most hard thing. "Patience" is the hardest thing in life.
Hodlers have patience and they get the biggest reward and biggest gain in this game.

[Ardenoss]

There is your opinion that same with me. Government will not let's money go to internet / bitcoin much more. Optimism bitcoin holders sometimes exceeds rationality. However this is the fact, everything is going all the way to riches with bitcoin.

[orions.belt19]

Saying that bitcoin is sort of like a religion because some people seem to be like worshipping it seems to be too much although I have to admit that there are some people who would go through great extents just so that they could acquire bitcoin. Well, that’s your opinion and perspective. Some really just believe in bitcoin that much because they see potential in it. The psychology behind a hodler is having the hope that hodling would bring them great rewards because they believe that bitcoin would have high value in the future even if we experience price drops.

[erikpa]

Hodler psychology is simple and Hodlers always did the most hard thing. "Patience" is the hardest thing in life.
Hodlers have patience and they get the biggest reward and biggest gain in this game.

Might be true. But sometimes the thing you hold for too long just go bankrupt while you keep yourself telling to be "patient".

[MoonJeina]

I don't think all the holders has the same psychology . Not all the holders hold the bitcoin for a long time  and for the "hope" of bitcoin growing stronger . I mean , even if they do they are some what right . If you are holding bitcoin since 2015 and have it till now , imagine the profit they would've gained . Bitcoin  fullfils the hope of holder , then why not ?
There are also some holders who hold their  bitcoin in wallets for the simple purpose of investment or trading or they have more strategic plans with their bitcoin . Many of them keeps a balanced amount and withdraw some of it regularly .  In my experience , i have seen very less disapointed holders .                                                                                                   

[xFiber]

First of all: I'm no hodler. I cashed out when things got a bit too scary for my taste. Second of all: I feel bad for everyone that has lost money or is on the verge of losing money. You have my sympathy.

Bitcoin is in a prominent bear market at the moment and the current exchange rate might just be a pitstop on the road downwards. What amazes me however is that so many people, people that can actually read a chart, really feel entitled to another quadruple digit rally. Wait, check that. They are sure it is going to happen. Even amidst the chaos of the last days I can still see people claiming that it will reach 10.000 dollars; some even say it will reach that number in three months already.

What I find so curious is that many HODLers here seem to have a very religious devotion to Bitcoin, despite the serious situation Bitcoin is in. Some seem to be even more devoted to their own religion of Bitcoinism than the pope is committed to the Roman Catholic Church.  I believe this to be a very dangerous attitude, given the risks involved. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few posters on these boards are all in with all their life savings - or have even indebted themselves - and are sure shitting themselves at this moment. It might be a religious, god revering response to look up and say to yourself: 'Everything will be all right, I just know it'. They discard any possibility that some guy will come around with a new, superior protocol in as short as the next few years and just blatantly ignore the fact that Bitcoin is not alive at all among the vast majority of the population. Next to that: they probably have a good feeling that governments will not allow capital to flow unrestricted and out of their scope, but still they ignore it.

Question is why? What is it? Desperation? Total mania? Tell me. I just can't explain it anymore.

We have come full circle.  How do you feel about these comments that you made in 2014 now that Bitcoin is on the tip of every tongue, grandmother's are asking grandchildren to buy Bitcoin and the mania has clearly headed up towards a peak rather than a trough?   I'm curious as to your state of mind about a $7,000 bitcoin.

There really is no need to dredge up this old thread. Sure bitcoin and it's recent trend has proved the original poster wrong but there's genuinely no point in bringing this, clearly outdated thread back up. Pro-HODLing or not holding on tightly has proven to be a very succesful strategy that has undeniably created a lot of new millionaires. The numbers speak for themselves.

[nizamcc]

I see you are still here on the forum and since your question was from 2014, I would ask you in 2017 currently that how do you really feel?
Sympathetic for those who waited till now in the faith that BTC will rise, which it proved?
OR for yourself, who sold off when emergencies were there or sold all immediately in a panic?
Am not against your decision then, but now I "feel" for you. It's the courage that gives us the strength to hold and hold so long.

[arpon11]

Holding is a strong business decisions as most times it is very difficult to hold when prices is going in your favor. I sold some of my coins when bitcoin was at $1,250 and sold the second one when the price increased to $1,529 and sold again when it is at $1878, I also sold another one when it was at $4200. After caculating all the coins I sold if I hold them till today I could have been a millionaires in my local currency.

[ChrisPop]

A lot more money is being pumped into bitcoin because people start realising the technology and power behind it. I see more and more businesses adopting bitcoin as a payment method. As well as people who start alloting small parts of their income into btc and crypto on a monthly basis.
HODLing bitcoin is not a religion or something like that, it is just the recognition of crypto-currencies as the evolution of the financial world.

[Bezobraznike]

Hodler psychology is simple and Hodlers always did the most hard thing. "Patience" is the hardest thing in life.
Hodlers have patience and they get the biggest reward and biggest gain in this game.

Might be true. But sometimes the thing you hold for too long just go bankrupt while you keep yourself telling to be "patient".

   Erikpa it is true, and this describes my psychology more then what creator
of this thread wrote in his opening comment.
   Patience is a virtue, who have it will have higher reward then people
who hurry. Ask have a point in his comment, patience is the virtue in life
too, and it is not easy to master the patience. Patience requires absolute
control over your emotions, and people who mastered have more success.
   I am a holder, I like to see myself like that. I just invest in crypto-currencies,
and I do not even think about cashing out any time soon.

[Gaff]

Hodler psychology is simple and Hodlers always did the most hard thing. "Patience" is the hardest thing in life.
Hodlers have patience and they get the biggest reward and biggest gain in this game.

Of course patience is always needed as a hodler but it's really hard to do mate,  that's why most of the investors lose it due to panic. That psychology always relate to an idea of making money mindset, and the real scenario of it is to sell their asset and generate profit immediately. Not with an idea of a psychology which your mindset is always wait until the price pump and pump to a very profitable and stable price, like of todays fluctuations its really good to sell but more decided to hodle.