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Author Topic: Project Bitcoin Island - Bali - Indonesia  (Read 55466 times)
thiec
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June 03, 2014, 03:46:26 AM
Last edit: June 04, 2014, 06:06:53 AM by thiec
 #61

Hi KimNam,

Thank you to drop by. Actually our shares that we offer in Cryptostocks is more for appreciation's token for donors in project Bitcoin Island. We want to give something to our contributor thats why we do it via cryptostocks previously. So we can track the donor.

Hi funchiestz

umm, so, if we buy your shares in cryptostocks it means we donate our BTC to your project? or do we really buy your shares?
if we donate, it means, we will not get our money back? you said that you have plan to buy the shares back somewhen in the next 1-2 years (and pay the dividen per month)?  Huh Huh

I agree that your share's price is too expensive

I think his mean that buying bitcoin.co.id shares in cryptostocks is not for short term profit and some part of it treat like you make a donation for this project.

Since bitcoin.co.id just a new exchanger and still low market cap (although Indonesia are top 5 population), you cant compare the return just for short term. If you believe in this project than you go with it by being part of it (buying share).

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June 06, 2014, 01:24:07 AM
 #62

One idea is to get tourists to believe the benefit of bringing bitcoin to Bali. Maybe you could dangle prizes for travelers to write blog about how they spend their time in Bali and using Bitcoin. They must write the blog on well-known travel blogs and social media.

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June 20, 2014, 06:36:01 AM
 #63

delightful update Smiley
your fee is in IDR, and what they taxed is this IDR.. so the tax is not for BTC but for IDR, is this right?
if I'm a merchant, and I want my customer able to pay using BTC, how about the tax? is the tax will be calculated based on the BTC value in IDR when the transaction happen? or how?
thiec
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June 20, 2014, 04:11:42 PM
 #64

delightful update Smiley
your fee is in IDR, and what they taxed is this IDR.. so the tax is not for BTC but for IDR, is this right?
if I'm a merchant, and I want my customer able to pay using BTC, how about the tax? is the tax will be calculated based on the BTC value in IDR when the transaction happen? or how?

The tax rate is 1% base of government regulations number 46 year 2013 (PP No.46/2013)

Tax will be calculate from your income (sales) in IDR, so if you sale in BTC than it will base of BTC value in IDR like you said.

I dont know why does funchiestz said that the tax charge only for fee cause the rule is clear. The object of 1% is INCOME not the MARGIN (FEE).

Margin have another rule base of tax law no.36/2008 article 17 in certain criteria.

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June 23, 2014, 03:05:30 AM
 #65

eheiiii
ngebut trus nih pak oscar Cheesy

hope you guys can make Bali a big basecamp for bitcoiners Cheesy

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June 23, 2014, 03:14:17 AM
 #66

Great idea...smashing travellers for six!

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June 23, 2014, 04:21:12 AM
 #67

delightful update Smiley
your fee is in IDR, and what they taxed is this IDR.. so the tax is not for BTC but for IDR, is this right?
if I'm a merchant, and I want my customer able to pay using BTC, how about the tax? is the tax will be calculated based on the BTC value in IDR when the transaction happen? or how?

The tax rate is 1% base of government regulations number 46 year 2013 (PP No.46/2013)

Tax will be calculate from your income (sales) in IDR, so if you sale in BTC than it will base of BTC value in IDR like you said.

I dont know why does funchiestz said that the tax charge only for fee cause the rule is clear. The object of 1% is INCOME not the MARGIN (FEE).

Margin have another rule base of tax law no.36/2008 article 17 in certain criteria.


I think it is very clear. Exchange income is from transaction fee. Exchange position is just like a property agent, or stock broker. The total amount of transaction is income for the bitcoin sellers, not for the exchange. For bitcoin sellers they also require to declare income for selling their bitcoin base of PP no. 46, which means they need to pay 1% of tax from total amount of rupiah they received.
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June 23, 2014, 10:40:30 AM
 #68

delightful update Smiley
your fee is in IDR, and what they taxed is this IDR.. so the tax is not for BTC but for IDR, is this right?
if I'm a merchant, and I want my customer able to pay using BTC, how about the tax? is the tax will be calculated based on the BTC value in IDR when the transaction happen? or how?

The tax rate is 1% base of government regulations number 46 year 2013 (PP No.46/2013)

Tax will be calculate from your income (sales) in IDR, so if you sale in BTC than it will base of BTC value in IDR like you said.

I dont know why does funchiestz said that the tax charge only for fee cause the rule is clear. The object of 1% is INCOME not the MARGIN (FEE).

Margin have another rule base of tax law no.36/2008 article 17 in certain criteria.


I think it is very clear. Exchange income is from transaction fee. Exchange position is just like a property agent, or stock broker. The total amount of transaction is income for the bitcoin sellers, not for the exchange. For bitcoin sellers they also require to declare income for selling their bitcoin base of PP no. 46, which means they need to pay 1% of tax from total amount of rupiah they received.
as long as "profit" still sticked, it doesnt matter (the 1%)
 Cheesy
thiec
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June 23, 2014, 10:47:14 AM
Last edit: June 23, 2014, 10:57:35 AM by thiec
 #69

delightful update Smiley
your fee is in IDR, and what they taxed is this IDR.. so the tax is not for BTC but for IDR, is this right?
if I'm a merchant, and I want my customer able to pay using BTC, how about the tax? is the tax will be calculated based on the BTC value in IDR when the transaction happen? or how?

The tax rate is 1% base of government regulations number 46 year 2013 (PP No.46/2013)

Tax will be calculate from your income (sales) in IDR, so if you sale in BTC than it will base of BTC value in IDR like you said.

I dont know why does funchiestz said that the tax charge only for fee cause the rule is clear. The object of 1% is INCOME not the MARGIN (FEE).

Margin have another rule base of tax law no.36/2008 article 17 in certain criteria.


Hi Thiec

Please read in this article, I believe you are Indonesian since you can understand our regulation
http://indonesia.bitcoin.co.id/panduan-perpajakan-bitcoin-di-indonesia/

That link has article about guidance to pay tax for miner, exchanger, and even ecommerce that use bitcoin

I hope it helps !

Thanks for the article. I just finished read it and here my opinion.
(I am not tax official, and i share my opinion and my knowledge in tax fields base of Indonesia Tax Rule)

1. Miner
I am totally agree that any income from miner are object to income tax (PPh) and not object to VAT (PPN).

2. Exchanger
I also agree that exchanger that stand as mediator for buyer and seller earn fee and the fee are object to income tax, and since the new regulation (PP No.46/2013) if your earning fee are lower than 4,8 Billions Rupiahs IN A YEAR than your fee are object to 1% income tax (final without deduction from cost), and if your earning fee are higher than 4,8 Billions Rupiahs than your fee are object to Income Tax Law No.36/2008 Act 17 which currently rate is 25% after you deduct the cost to generate your earning. (You may read act 31E for tax reduction criteria)

I am not complete agree about VAT, since your only mediator, your sale are not count as VAT's object but your fees are. And if like above, there are certain criteria, if you pass 4,8 Billions mark than you become VAT's object and if not, you dont. So, the different is the article said sales, i am said fee

3. Commerce
Always use PP No.46/2013 which make 4,8 Billions rupiahs a year as a mark for tax income calculation
Below 4,8 Billions, all sales are object to 1% income tax (whatever you make a profit sales or not)
Above 4,8 Billions, all sales can be deducted to the cost (cogs, expenses ect) and the margin are object to 25% income tax
Connection with the article, the poster is not use this regulation, his opinion is in general and not consider to government regulations No.46/2013

VAT also have 4,8 Billions as turning point base of Finance Ministers Regulation No.197/PMK.03/2013, start to apply Jan 1st, 2014

4. Investment
Agree with the article. The capital gain may become object of income tax. And VAT could be declare if transaction above 4,8 Billions

I think it is very clear. Exchange income is from transaction fee. Exchange position is just like a property agent, or stock broker. The total amount of transaction is income for the bitcoin sellers, not for the exchange. For bitcoin sellers they also require to declare income for selling their bitcoin base of PP no. 46, which means they need to pay 1% of tax from total amount of rupiah they received.

Not exactly. My post before are prefer to merchants and they aren'tt exchanger, they are buying and selling goods.

Exchanger not really buy or sell btc, they only market place as you said like a broker. The real transaction occurred between buyer and seller, and exchanger are the middle man only. So "the sales" are not object to 1% regulation

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June 23, 2014, 05:48:52 PM
 #70

Other merchant join BitIslands Project !

Cinta Bahasa Indonesia Language School



Cinta Bahasa provides student-centered tailored intensive and semi-intensive Indonesia and Balinese Language training services. They also provide interpretation, translation, editing, film subtitling, technical writing, marketing/advertising copy writing, graphic design and multilingual website design services in both Indonesian and English language.

Address : Indomaret Lt 2, Jl. Raya Sanggingan 88x, Ubud
Island    : Bali, Indonesia
Website : www.CintaBahasa.com



gurunya cantik tuh pak
boleh di deketin Cheesy, jgn asik bitcoin yg di pacarin  Cheesy

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June 23, 2014, 06:48:29 PM
Last edit: June 23, 2014, 08:32:07 PM by papersheepdog
 #71



The CryptoTown On The Ground project aims to develop a comprehensive guide and the resources necessary for starting and participating in what we call a CryptoMall. A CryptoMall is a directory and network of businesses, investors, and consultants maintained by a "management" group of volunteers who act as advocates and consultants on the frontier of cryptocurrency adoption.

We would like to introduce you to our project. In short, CryptoTown is about gaining experience with projects such as BitIslands, so that it can be implemented anywhere else in the world. If we support each other, we can bring awareness to this extremely important task of spreading adoption of cryptocurrencies "on the ground."


BitIslands has been added to our directory! For further information, please leave a comment on the listing page or the Reddit post.



The Official CryptoTown Guide (or PDF Version 0.1G)

CryptoTown Website (not yet avail)

CryptoTown on Reddit

CryptoTown on Bitcointalk

CryptoTown on Twitter

Development Workshop

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June 23, 2014, 10:17:50 PM
 #72

delightful update Smiley
your fee is in IDR, and what they taxed is this IDR.. so the tax is not for BTC but for IDR, is this right?
if I'm a merchant, and I want my customer able to pay using BTC, how about the tax? is the tax will be calculated based on the BTC value in IDR when the transaction happen? or how?

The tax rate is 1% base of government regulations number 46 year 2013 (PP No.46/2013)

Tax will be calculate from your income (sales) in IDR, so if you sale in BTC than it will base of BTC value in IDR like you said.

I dont know why does funchiestz said that the tax charge only for fee cause the rule is clear. The object of 1% is INCOME not the MARGIN (FEE).

Margin have another rule base of tax law no.36/2008 article 17 in certain criteria.


Hi Thiec

Please read in this article, I believe you are Indonesian since you can understand our regulation
http://indonesia.bitcoin.co.id/panduan-perpajakan-bitcoin-di-indonesia/

That link has article about guidance to pay tax for miner, exchanger, and even ecommerce that use bitcoin

I hope it helps !

Thanks for the article. I just finished read it and here my opinion.
(I am not tax official, and i share my opinion and my knowledge in tax fields base of Indonesia Tax Rule)

1. Miner
I am totally agree that any income from miner are object to income tax (PPh) and not object to VAT (PPN).

2. Exchanger
I also agree that exchanger that stand as mediator for buyer and seller earn fee and the fee are object to income tax, and since the new regulation (PP No.46/2013) if your earning fee are lower than 4,8 Billions Rupiahs IN A YEAR than your fee are object to 1% income tax (final without deduction from cost), and if your earning fee are higher than 4,8 Billions Rupiahs than your fee are object to Income Tax Law No.36/2008 Act 17 which currently rate is 25% after you deduct the cost to generate your earning. (You may read act 31E for tax reduction criteria)

I am not complete agree about VAT, since your only mediator, your sale are not count as VAT's object but your fees are. And if like above, there are certain criteria, if you pass 4,8 Billions mark than you become VAT's object and if not, you dont. So, the different is the article said sales, i am said fee

3. Commerce
Always use PP No.46/2013 which make 4,8 Billions rupiahs a year as a mark for tax income calculation
Below 4,8 Billions, all sales are object to 1% income tax (whatever you make a profit sales or not)
Above 4,8 Billions, all sales can be deducted to the cost (cogs, expenses ect) and the margin are object to 25% income tax
Connection with the article, the poster is not use this regulation, his opinion is in general and not consider to government regulations No.46/2013

VAT also have 4,8 Billions as turning point base of Finance Ministers Regulation No.197/PMK.03/2013, start to apply Jan 1st, 2014

4. Investment
Agree with the article. The capital gain may become object of income tax. And VAT could be declare if transaction above 4,8 Billions

I think it is very clear. Exchange income is from transaction fee. Exchange position is just like a property agent, or stock broker. The total amount of transaction is income for the bitcoin sellers, not for the exchange. For bitcoin sellers they also require to declare income for selling their bitcoin base of PP no. 46, which means they need to pay 1% of tax from total amount of rupiah they received.

Not exactly. My post before are prefer to merchants and they aren'tt exchanger, they are buying and selling goods.

Exchanger not really buy or sell btc, they only market place as you said like a broker. The real transaction occurred between buyer and seller, and exchanger are the middle man only. So "the sales" are not object to 1% regulation

Just want to clarify: "Capital gain may become object of income tax", what Indonesian tax regulation state that ?

thanks
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June 24, 2014, 02:36:34 AM
 #73

another bitcoin island wanna be
http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/23/jersey-bitcoin-island/ Smiley
thiec
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June 24, 2014, 03:50:00 AM
 #74


Just want to clarify: "Capital gain may become object of income tax", what Indonesian tax regulation state that ?

thanks


In Indonesia, Capital Gain is a general definition. Different object that obtain capital gain will have different tax rate or not object at all.
The basic rule come from Tax Law No.38/2008 article 4 and more explanation in PP No.94/2010

For example
* capital gain from investment in stock market (BEI), the tax rate is 0.1% from sales of investment and final (no cost deduction) PP No.14/1997
* capital gain from investment in Mutual Funds (Reksadana), not a object from income tax
* capital gain from investment in foreign currency are object to article 17
ect...

So case by case

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June 24, 2014, 04:25:28 AM
 #75

@thiec

OK. I see. But bitcoin at the moment is not classified under foreign currency under Bank Indonesia definition. So it is commodities and there is nothing about capital gains tax.

thiec
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June 24, 2014, 05:12:06 AM
 #76

@thiec

OK. I see. But bitcoin at the moment is not classified under foreign currency under Bank Indonesia definition. So it is commodities and there is nothing about capital gains tax.



Yes, it is. bitcoin is treat like commodities or assets, there are 2 possibility

1. Unless your are trading company that specialist in buy and sale bitcoin so bitcoin is your inventory (like money changer in foreign currency), your sales will be object to 1% income tax until your total sales for a year above 4.8 billions. So its call selling goods not capital gain

2. other wise, the tax will assume you only speculate in bitcoin thus your investment are object to capital gain, like your buy a house or land or anything assets and sale it later. That object to article 17

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June 26, 2014, 03:48:31 AM
 #77

congratulations to bitcoin.co.id hopefully all goes well could be planned just why you should be in the closed exchanger was very helpful when we were wanted us to IDR exchange bitcoin, but hopefully in Bali can smoothly plan that can be followed in the cities other

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June 29, 2014, 10:48:55 AM
 #78

I definitely want to go on an 'all bitcoin' trip to Bali at some point in the near future!

Seems like it would be a fun way to travel. And now that Expedia is accepting btc it makes it much more likely that I'll be able to do that at some point.
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June 29, 2014, 09:49:09 PM
 #79

this is a great start  i think
well, i want to travel with all payment in BTC  Roll Eyes

Bali island that know as paradise island will be know to as Bitcoin paradise  Grin
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July 01, 2014, 07:44:09 AM
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Maybe Indonesia is a holiday-making place for Bitcoin enthusiast. Smiley
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