NAS the latest GREEDY/PONZI distribution model - 71% to 11 people?? what?

[cryptohunter]

Is there something contagious in the nxt source code.... that demands super concentrated distribution??

The developers miss the elephant in the room....


NXT looks good, but is held back by the initial distribution to only 71 people...

So you clone next and obviously you take away this criticism so that your coin may not have this to drag it down.

So now we get NAS - - guess what 71% to 11 people with the largest of the 11 holding 20% of the entire minting.... LOL what???




Is it true that the top 3 IPO investors received 37% of all coins, and the top 11 IPO investors received 71% of all coins?

Ranking   Account Number   NAS received   % of total 10bn NAS
1   16545239077924294773   1993005000   19.93%
2   1017925928554332177   997500000   9.98%
3   12962305291451856272   733761000   7.34%
4   10154666925216279036   527478000   5.27%
5   9437257435252063080   470820000   4.71%
6   17852752570692853871   439698000   4.4%
7   9431573599992481224   399000000   3.99%
8   3946695318601168288   399000000   3.99%
9   9073375756757743601   399000000   3.99%
10   9936206869497287267   399000000   3.99%
11   7827670721723948264   398800500   3.99%

someome apparently bought nearly 2 000 000 000 coins for 0.49 BTC and wants to sell it now for MIN of 500BTC lol wtf  this board gets more insane by the day?


the giveaway was crumbs for hundreds of people.... all combined have a fraction of 1 person.

But wait there is a huge giveway right? nope it is tiny ... 1 person got 10x more than 100's of people combined?

NO - everyone else get's to share just  10% of ONE persons personal stash? this is just crazy.

So 1 single person holds 20% everyone else gets share between hundreds of them 2% ? what?


Even with NXT you could buy it cheap from the ipo holders for a while.... these NAS guys only want 800-1200X their investment a few days ago.


Can someone copy and paste next and actually distribute the coins out to MORE than 11 people?  



Anyone buying this at 20 sats is insane....


Some one will be a long shortly with the next nxt clone that actually gets some kind of reasonable distribution model going.



If you could not be bothered to read that.........


NAS distribution  is  WAY worse than Nxt's distribution. The giveaway means nothing in real terms.

Someone needs to release a nxt clone that does not allow 11 people to hold 71% of the coins.... how difficult can it be.


Let's discuss ways to provide better distribution methods.

[NWO]

I think you'll find some of the early nxt adopters are behind nas as well... A little bit of a coincidence that it is suddenly on dgex (owned by one of the biggest nxt holders)? I think not.

[cryptohunter]

How hard is it to copy and paste nxt?

And distribute it out to more than 11 people?  


WTF?  we just see one bigger ponzi after another.


Be honest keep 10% for the dev team held my escrow member - released to them in a transparent way for their time and projects over the coming years.


the rest distribute out in a way that is reasonable... not give it to a handful of people and then some tiny scraps for the rest hoping they will support the coins and drive it forward. Most people think their 50k or 100k means anything when 1 person has 2 000 000 000 coins.

I don't say NAS is a scam but it is a total fail since the ipo owners are insisting on 800x or 1200x returns on their few day old investment.  Total  bullshit. 


One guy obviously bought a super monster batch of nas and now trying to pump this shit and extract more btc from people.


A fair 40x return on the investment to distribute the coins out a bit is getting laughed at as a joke, 1200x or nothing they say...hehe


Come on someone copy and paste nxt with a decent distribution model, not worse than the one you are seemingly trying to improve on.



Time for a nxt clone with some reasonable distribution model to kick it off.

[MisO69]

A little off topic,

With all these PoS coins around are there any that are actually worth investing in? I haven't done much research on PoS coins and thought it may be time to buy some, or not...

[cryptohunter]

A little off topic,

With all these PoS coins around are there any that are actually worth investing in? I haven't done much research on PoS coins and thought it may be time to buy some, or not...

I'm not sure, my trading advice is deadly i would not inflict that on anyone.

Make a thread, and ask. POS seems a good way to go for energy efficiency... a lot of coins will introduce it soon i'm sure.


So back to nxt and the clones...

who can clone nxt and give more than 11 people a  fair chance at getting a reasonable amount.

[MisO69]

A little off topic,

With all these PoS coins around are there any that are actually worth investing in? I haven't done much research on PoS coins and thought it may be time to buy some, or not...

I'm not sure, my trading advice is deadly i would not inflict that on anyone.

Make a thread, and ask. POS seems a good way to go for energy efficiency... a lot of coins will introduce it soon i'm sure.


So back to nxt and the clones...

who can clone nxt and give more than 11 people a  fair chance at getting a reasonable amount.

I would be into a new PoS NXT or other clone that is fairly distributed. Faircoin attempted some sort of fair distribution, but then shit happened, the devs either got greedy or they fucked up. Blackcoin seems to be doing okay, it was distributed with PoW as we all know.

So I guess the real question is how to distribute a PoS coin fairly?

Facebook? - no many alts can be created and some people already have that.
Captcha with IP address verification - no some people have access to many IP addresses. Sysadmins for instance.
Airdrop - scams with centralized control
BTCTalk accounts? - no many alternate accounts held by members.
IPO - no it doesn't work for fair distribution.

I don't know if this is possible but how about this approach -

We take an established coin and use its addresses for fair distribution for this example lets say we decide to use LTC. A snapshot of the LTC blockchain is taken at a set date. The PoS coin uses the addresses to hand out coins. If you have say 5 addresses in your LTC wallet you'll be able to import those into the new PoS coin and for each one you get a set amount of new PoS coins. Can something like this work? Kinda like what Protoshares does.

[cryptohunter]

A little off topic,

With all these PoS coins around are there any that are actually worth investing in? I haven't done much research on PoS coins and thought it may be time to buy some, or not...

I'm not sure, my trading advice is deadly i would not inflict that on anyone.

Make a thread, and ask. POS seems a good way to go for energy efficiency... a lot of coins will introduce it soon i'm sure.


So back to nxt and the clones...

who can clone nxt and give more than 11 people a  fair chance at getting a reasonable amount.

I would be into a new PoS NXT or other clone that is fairly distributed. Faircoin attempted some sort of fair distribution, but then shit happened, the devs either got greedy or they fucked up. Blackcoin seems to be doing okay, it was distributed with PoW as we all know.

So I guess the real question is how to distribute a PoS coin fairly?

Facebook? - no many alts can be created and some people already have that.
Captcha with IP address verification - no some people have access to many IP addresses. Sysadmins for instance.
Airdrop - scams with centralized control
BTCTalk accounts? - no many alternate accounts held by members.
IPO - no it doesn't work for fair distribution.

I don't know if this is possible but how about this approach -

We take an established coin and use its addresses for fair distribution for this example lets say we decide to use LTC. A snapshot of the LTC blockchain is taken at a set date. The PoS coin uses the addresses to hand out coins. If you have say 5 addresses in your LTC wallet you'll be able to import those into the new PoS coin and for each one you get a set amount of new PoS coins. Can something like this work? Kinda like what Protoshares does.

hmm yes well certainly that would see more than 11 people get a substantial share. But what about people with no ltc and some with 500k ltc... it makes the rich richer.

Better would be...

premine it all up.....

10bn minting for example...

sell for 1m = 0.01 BTC until all sold max any user account on here can buy on here is 10M at the initial buy in price...  have to be registered before the date of release.

All btc held by escrow level person and used in a transparent way for projects and such in future.

2% of the minting held back by escrow level member for the devs released over a time period that is suitable.

Nothing is perfect of course but giving 71% to 11 people is just crazy, things are meant to get better not worse.

I'm sure way smarter persons than myself could think up even better ways however as yet i have not seen anything even as good as that.

[cryptohunter]

well yes none of these are perfect but shit any of them are a far far far better way than giving 71% of coins to 11 people.

[Momimaus]

I don´t understand this cloning thing at all.

If you clone NXT, and the NXT-Team implements improvements and new features, what happens to the clone?
Is it that easy to just copy it again? Or will it last at the old version?

[roslinpl]

I must say I found this thread interesting.

I have some NAS coins from a task and a giveaway, I am not a NXT interested, so  maybe I missed some "bad news" about NXT coin,
but why you are calling it a Ponzi?

I didn't invested any money into NAS so I do not feel like I am inside of any Ponzi.
I dunno.

This coin looks like a coin I can say. But it has PoS and it has VERY user friendly COOL wallet and you need a java to run it, then you use it via web browser.

I say it is quite cool. I do not know what bad is in NXT so maybe that is a reason why I do not see something so so bad in NAS.

And maybe I agree that there are some strange features in this coin, and I dunno how much profit developers will take - maybe they are trying to make a "huge profit"  because of greed - I dunno.

I just keep my NAS coins and wait for what will future bring for it.

[notsoshifty]

Come on someone copy and paste nxt with a decent distribution model, not worse than the one you are seemingly trying to improve on.

Time for a nxt clone with some reasonable distribution model to kick it off.

What I would do:

 - Each of the 500 "interested" investors in NAS get 1 share each. Total shares in this group: 500
 - Each of the 33 "IPO" investors in NAS get N shares, where N=30*(X+0.2), where X is the BTC donated (or NXT equivalent, at 0.00005 BTC/NXT rate). Total shares in this group: 265.659

Create a NAS clone with 2 billion coins. Distribute it as follows:
 - 1 billion: temporary forging account
 - 1 billion: Allocated to 533 accounts at 1,306,064 coins per share

     Example: non-paid interested stakeholder gets 1 share, or 1,306,064 coins
     Example: 0.01 BTC invested (lowest investor) gets 6.3 shares, or 8,228,206 coins
     Example: 0.4995 BTC invested (highest investor) gets 69.95 shares, or 27,407,762 coins

The 1 billion NAS in the forging account would be run by a trusted escrow (such as Anon136), for two weeks, on the absolute understanding that it would all be sent to the genesis block (i.e. destroyed) over the period of those two weeks, as forging nodes come online.

The coin would run alongside NAS, and the community would either pick it up and run with it, or not (in which case it would quietly die).

Rationale: you are rewarding paid investors by giving them a much larger share, but not so much that you have whales with up to 20% of the distribution each, and 500 people with 0.001% each. Nobody gets more than 2.74%, or less than 0.13%


EDIT: as all the account numbers and public keys of all 533 accounts are known, all this is possible without having to spend 2 weeks getting information from each investor.

[mczarnek]

Can you find a single company that was started with that 'fair' of a distribution?

How was NAS's initial distribution done?  Why didn't I hear about it?  I've been big in the Nxt community.. doesn't sound very fair to me!

[smooth]

Simple solution is to build a Nxt clone that is a Bitcoin spin-off

[EvilDave]

If you like NAS...try the original.

NXT has had it's issues in the past, but it is packed full of innovative features, not just another pump 'n' dump clone of BTC/LTC
Just take a look at the insane number of NXT clones springing up....if NXT is so awful, why clone it?

These guys all know that NXT is going to be a serious contender for the #2 (or maybe even #1) spot in the not-so-distant future, and are trying to get in on the action, by setting up a clone-coin to put themselves in the position of the semi-mythical NXT founders/early adopters.

Problem is that they don't quite understand how NXT works: when u can issue any electronic asset u like to create thru the NXT Asset Exchange, why bother setting up a clone ?
When AE goes live, I'll be able to create and distribute EvilCoin inside an afternoon........with a long coffee + cigarette break.

TLDR: Get into NXT, forget the clones, most of them are already dead.

The new NXT forum:
https://nxtforum.org/
Intro site:
http://www.nxtcrypto.org/

  

[cryptohunter]

Simple solution is to build a Nxt clone that is a Bitcoin spin-off

Better than giving 71% to 11 people yes. However that is still not a very good way of distributing things.

That way just says.... getting lucky on bitcoin entitles you to get lucky on every other new alt opportunity.


NAS wasn't a scam they would never have given 20% to a single person if it was that instantly sends alarm bells off.

However you can't have coins where only 11 people are givien 71% that is just crazy.

Nxt yeah you could say was a little more fair 71 people is greater than 11.... so really even though NAS gave some scraps out for free NXT is still not such a distorted distribution.

However 71 is still crazy small although i know a lot of nxt ipo holders did sell a lot off very cheaply to start with. Not like this NAS whales demanding 800x -1200x investment to share a few out.

Can nobody clone this kind of coin and do a reasonable distribution to more than a handful of people?

The buy in period can last months/years if the coins are held by escrow level members and it is all transparent.


I don't really want to get away from the distribution point of the topic... however i do want to know why more people are not cloning nxt since the source is there now for nas?

How come we have not seen 20 nxt clones per day like scrypt so far?

Is the source code really crippled in some way like they say, if so how are these other clones releasing on code that has intentional bugs?

So anyway nxt 71 people - nah not a great idea kind of put a lot of people off, Nas the bulk given to 11 people.....whoops worse than nxt.

Which of these nxt clones can get it correct?

[notsoshifty]

Can nobody clone this kind of coin and do a reasonable distribution to more than a handful of people?

How would you do it? I gave one option, which distributes to 500+ people and could be launched in just a day or three. It's not fair - nothing is - but it wouldn't be dominated by whales who could dump and destroy your wealth at any time they like.

[cryptohunter]

Can nobody clone this kind of coin and do a reasonable distribution to more than a handful of people?

How would you do it? I gave one option, which distributes to 500+ people and could be launched in just a day or three. It's not fair - nothing is - but it wouldn't be dominated by whales who could dump and destroy your wealth at any time they like.

Your idea seems as good if not better than any i have. We just can not sit there and watch the vast majority of a coins full minting be gobbled up by 11 people.

Let's just leave NAS if they are unwilling to share their super stakes.... they will see the folly of their ways if it dies because a new clone with reasonable distribution is released.

If the source is there why are there not other clones yet?  i hear there are deliberate traps in the nxt code, did nas fix them?

[smooth]

Can nobody clone this kind of coin and do a reasonable distribution to more than a handful of people?

How would you do it? I gave one option, which distributes to 500+ people and could be launched in just a day or three. It's not fair - nothing is - but it wouldn't be dominated by whales who could dump and destroy your wealth at any time they like.

Bitcoin spin off has huge potential here. See my previous post on this thread.

[qqNxt]

it is a free market, if people are willing to pay for it, well then its worth something at that time.
I have a tiny tiny stake in nas.

[EvilDave]

Traps in the code have all been found, afaik, and the code has been completely open source for a while, but the NXT code is totally innovative stuff and finding good Java devs who are prepared to work on a get-rich-quick clone isn't all that easy. And NXT has grabbed all the good/available Java devs we can find.

NXT has a fairly serious dev team, (and a dedicated community) and even with them on board we are still not hitting targets for getting features out as quickly as we'd like.

And there is the elephant in the room: the combination of NXT Asset Exchange and the ability to issue colored coins over the NXT blockchain will make cloning NXT in the old-fashioned way completely pointless.

Why go to the trouble of setting up a clone,when u can just do the same thing from within the NXT system?