NAS the latest GREEDY/PONZI distribution model - 71% to 11 people?? what?

[cryptohunter]

Traps in the code have all been found, afaik, and the code has been completely open source for a while, but the NXT code is totally innovative stuff and finding good Java devs who are prepared to work on a get-rich-quick clone isn't all that easy. And NXT has grabbed all the good/available Java devs we can find.

NXT has a fairly serious dev team, (and a dedicated community) and even with them on board we are still not hitting targets for getting features out as quickly as we'd like.

And there is the elephant in the room: the combination of NXT Asset Exchange and the ability to issue colored coins over the NXT blockchain will make cloning NXT in the old-fashioned way completely pointless.

Why go to the trouble of setting up a clone,when u can just do the same thing from within the NXT system?

why would a much more fairly distributed clone be a get rich quick scheme?

BTW i am not anti next it at least provided innovation this latest NAS clone giving 71% to 11 persons is far more crazy.

Even so let's not take this thread off of topic.... i am really amazed that they are trying to get away with this kind of initial distribution after all of the fuss kicked up about nxt?

They clone it and make the distribution worse? this is the real crazy part.  I will change the title since it seems i am questioning the nxt code.

[KingSchultz]

If manual distribution could possibly work long term, Satoshi's whitepaper would have looked a lot different.

[cryptohunter]

Yes but POW looks to be getting less popular due to high energy consumption.... although for now POW with a fair launch still looks to be one of the best ways.

[Djentriser]

NAS is total bullshit, I cant imagine who is buying it.
It really is a trerrible deal, even if you find some people stupid enough, that coin absolutly has no future.

[NWO]

Pretty much Graviton is a scammer. He's made his money from NXT and now trying a new scam (NAS). I love how he pretends to warn people that NAS could be manipulated (as if he is covering his arse because he knows what is going on).

[griffinriz]

i just cant believe People are buying NAS, i am a supporter of NXT but this NAS is a huge scam, if you want something fair better join NHZ.

[rohan1]

Though NAS will have some speculation value at beginning ,but this copy and paste coin will be discarded by people in the end.

[hellscabane]

I agree it's pretty irksome, but pretty much a lot of things favor "early adopters."

That said, the distribution model was quite messed up. But anything that is pushed and released through this forum will encounter the same type of flaws. If you really want a more fair distribution, it has to be pushed through a different type of medium in conjunction with this site.

Regarding NAS, can we even be sure that these 10 people are unique?

[TwinWinNerD]

Hey guys, just a heads up.

NXT will launch a monetary system on its network. I suggested that we introduce a NXTBitcoin. We will take a cetrain block snapshot and then distribute the NXTBitcoin with the same distribution as BTC.

This will be awesome!

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/nxt-needs-a-main-currency-what-would-you-consider-ideal/msg8509/#msg8509

jl777 said this would be no problem to do!

[dogechode]

Personally I though the concept of an initial mining period followed by 100% POS was a good idea (Mint tried this but their value leaves something to be desired at the moment.) They did like a 5-week mining period which I think is too short. But mint also has too many coins IMO, 70bil is really pushing it.

What about 6 months of mining then 100% POS? And maybe like, 50-100mill coins max?

[TwinWinNerD]

Personally I though the concept of an initial mining period followed by 100% POS was a good idea (Mint tried this but their value leaves something to be desired at the moment.) They did like a 5-week mining period which I think is too short. But mint also has too many coins IMO, 70bil is really pushing it.

What about 6 months of mining then 100% POS? And maybe like, 50-100mill coins max?

This coin already exists: Peercoin http://www.peercoin.net/

Its called hybrid POW/POS. But peercoin has still flaws with selfish POS mining (Hint: you can forge on every fork, to maximise EV)

[cryptohunter]

I'm not against full pos given out to people, however just need to give it out to more than 11 people. Can't be that hard to get some method of distribution that does way better than that.

The current giveaway nas is running to give out some tiny scraps to the entire board does not look too bad.

Perhaps if they had done that from the start with 90% of the minting and kept 10% for ipo could have had a chance of surviving. Now it will just die as soon as a clone pops up that does a better job of distributing the coins.

[TwinWinNerD]

I'm not against full pos given out to people, however just need to give it out to more than 11 people. Can't be that hard to get some method of distribution that does way better than that.

The current giveaway nas is running to give out some tiny scraps to the entire board does not look too bad.

Perhaps if they had done that from the start with 90% of the minting and kept 10% for ipo could have had a chance of surviving. Now it will just die as soon as a clone pops up that does a better job of distributing the coins.

The top people only hold 38,55% now. It gets much better every day. But I agree that a new clone that has a competitive distribution would likely overtake NAS very fast.

Also I talked to the stakeholders and most (of the 10 I am in contact) said that they will donate more to the giveaway once it runs out. So we can likely reach 5000-10000 people and they will also distribute through exchanges, even though I know that you think that this is a bad way of distributing. I can't change that.

[MisO69]

A little off topic,

With all these PoS coins around are there any that are actually worth investing in? I haven't done much research on PoS coins and thought it may be time to buy some, or not...

I'm not sure, my trading advice is deadly i would not inflict that on anyone.

Make a thread, and ask. POS seems a good way to go for energy efficiency... a lot of coins will introduce it soon i'm sure.


So back to nxt and the clones...

who can clone nxt and give more than 11 people a  fair chance at getting a reasonable amount.

I would be into a new PoS NXT or other clone that is fairly distributed. Faircoin attempted some sort of fair distribution, but then shit happened, the devs either got greedy or they fucked up. Blackcoin seems to be doing okay, it was distributed with PoW as we all know.

So I guess the real question is how to distribute a PoS coin fairly?

Facebook? - no many alts can be created and some people already have that.
Captcha with IP address verification - no some people have access to many IP addresses. Sysadmins for instance.
Airdrop - scams with centralized control
BTCTalk accounts? - no many alternate accounts held by members.
IPO - no it doesn't work for fair distribution.

I don't know if this is possible but how about this approach -

We take an established coin and use its addresses for fair distribution for this example lets say we decide to use LTC. A snapshot of the LTC blockchain is taken at a set date. The PoS coin uses the addresses to hand out coins. If you have say 5 addresses in your LTC wallet you'll be able to import those into the new PoS coin and for each one you get a set amount of new PoS coins. Can something like this work? Kinda like what Protoshares does.

hmm yes well certainly that would see more than 11 people get a substantial share. But what about people with no ltc and some with 500k ltc... it makes the rich richer.

Better would be...

premine it all up.....

10bn minting for example...

sell for 1m = 0.01 BTC until all sold max any user account on here can buy on here is 10M at the initial buy in price...  have to be registered before the date of release.

All btc held by escrow level person and used in a transparent way for projects and such in future.

2% of the minting held back by escrow level member for the devs released over a time period that is suitable.

Nothing is perfect of course but giving 71% to 11 people is just crazy, things are meant to get better not worse.

I'm sure way smarter persons than myself could think up even better ways however as yet i have not seen anything even as good as that.

I don't think you understood my idea, everyone with an LTC address gets the same amount of coins. It has nothing to do with how much they hold. The way to cheat is someone who has generated hundreds of addresses ahead of time, for some reason or another. The guy with no LTC and a wallet also gets some. LTC doesn't have to be used. It can be any coin. Maybe doge would be a better choice. I'm just thinking of the best distribution model where no one has to pay anything for the coins. The bad part of this method is if you never downloaded the wallet of the clone blockchain then your out of luck.

Yes, I totally agree with your take on NAS its fucked.

[smooth]

I'm not against full pos given out to people, however just need to give it out to more than 11 people. Can't be that hard to get some method of distribution that does way better than that.

Right here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.0

I may even do this myself (yes I can code Java), but I'm just busy with a lot of different things right now.

[cryptohunter]

I'm not against full pos given out to people, however just need to give it out to more than 11 people. Can't be that hard to get some method of distribution that does way better than that.

Right here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.0

I may even do this myself (yes I can code Java), but I'm just busy with a lot of different things right now.

that is not a good way.... it serves to enrich the already rich only and cuts out noobs to crypto entirely.

Just because people are BTC wealthy does not entitle them to gain unfair advantage in new alt coin opportunities.

We need to find a much fairer way than that.

[TwinWinNerD]

I'm not against full pos given out to people, however just need to give it out to more than 11 people. Can't be that hard to get some method of distribution that does way better than that.

Right here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.0

I may even do this myself (yes I can code Java), but I'm just busy with a lot of different things right now.

that is not a good way.... it serves to enrich the already rich only and cuts out noobs to crypto entirely.

Just because people are BTC wealthy does not entitle them to gain unfair advantage in new alt coin opportunities.

We need to find a much fairer way than that.

I bet if you come up with a fair way, that doesn't intrude peoples privacy, you could make an awesome coin! Noone has been able to find a good approach!

[smooth]

I'm not against full pos given out to people, however just need to give it out to more than 11 people. Can't be that hard to get some method of distribution that does way better than that.

Right here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.0

I may even do this myself (yes I can code Java), but I'm just busy with a lot of different things right now.

that is not a good way.... it serves to enrich the already rich only and cuts out noobs to crypto entirely.

Just because people are BTC wealthy does not entitle them to gain unfair advantage in new alt coin opportunities.

We need to find a much fairer way than that.

Fair doesn't exist. Fair means you get what you want, someone else doesn't, so to him its unfair.

The method I proposed provides a the widest practical method of distribution in the universe of crypto coins.

[cryptohunter]

I'm not against full pos given out to people, however just need to give it out to more than 11 people. Can't be that hard to get some method of distribution that does way better than that.

Right here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.0

I may even do this myself (yes I can code Java), but I'm just busy with a lot of different things right now.

that is not a good way.... it serves to enrich the already rich only and cuts out noobs to crypto entirely.

Just because people are BTC wealthy does not entitle them to gain unfair advantage in new alt coin opportunities.

We need to find a much fairer way than that.

Fair doesn't exist. Fair means you get what you want, someone else doesn't, so to him its unfair.

The method I proposed provides a the widest practical method of distribution in the universe of crypto coins.

No not really. Fair means as many people as possible have equal chance at getting coins.

I don't consider those BTC whales just getting a whale share of all new alts fair. Any anyone who is not a BTC whale would probably see it the same way. Even the btc whales would know it was not really fair.

[smooth]

No not really. Fair means as many people as possible have equal chance at getting coins.

I don't consider those BTC whales just getting a whale share of all new alts fair. Any anyone who is not a BTC whale would probably see it the same way. Even the btc whales would know it was not really fair.

Everyone had an equal chance to get BTC.

But wait, you say, what about all the people that didn't know about it back in 2010?

Well, I say what about the people who show up in 2020 and didn't know about your amazing new alt in 2014?  

This never ends.

Ultimately the market will decide. I think treating new cryptos as spin offs from btc (which is most certainly what they are, objectively speaking) is likely to become a dominant distribution model, and like every single conceivable distribution model there will always be people who say it isn't fair. That can't be a disqualifier or there would be no distribution.