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theFork
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April 23, 2014, 05:51:25 PM
 #81

maidsafe does a dropbox approach rather than i2p/freenet, Eg easy to use, plus if i grok it right maidsafe can be built upon, eg apps etc....
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April 23, 2014, 05:53:36 PM
 #82

Maidsafe adds a coin to the equation and some way to login and change your content (and maybe some other things).

The coin part could be what is missing to FreeNet to go viral.
Having another open-source project with similar functionality but different features can't hurt !
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April 23, 2014, 05:57:13 PM
 #83

maidsafe does a dropbox approach rather than i2p/freenet, Eg easy to use, plus if i grok it right maidsafe can be built upon, eg apps etc....

It's like CleverSafe ( see:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleversafe ) however it uses a crypto-currency to pay providers for hosting storage.

Folks comparing it to I2P and FreeNet are way off the mark.  

With Bitcoin, miners are paid to secure the validation of transactions.

With SafeCoin, farmers are paid to provide storage.

Imagine all that money and energy spent to secure bitcoin and instead used to provide value in a storage network that is private.   The value proposition is plain and simple.  If you don't get it, then you don't get it!


      
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April 23, 2014, 06:05:30 PM
 #84



Saw Zenithcoin on coinmarketcap, tho'. "Doing quite well" is an interesting way to describe Zenithcoins performance.
24hour trade volume of $7.....I am impressed. Still, 134th is better than it's usual position at 220th or lower. Good pump, mate.


I am just the developer of ZenithCoin,  it was sold months ago to a new owner.  The new owner has some very promising plans.   So when I refer to 'doing quite well',  I refer to the deal making that is going on behind the scenes.


      
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April 23, 2014, 06:18:06 PM
 #85

when you think about it maidsafe is like a bot net, except you knowingly install/unistall the bot net, and it pays you to run it.
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April 23, 2014, 06:23:28 PM
 #86

when you think about it maidsafe is like a bot net, except you knowing install the bot net, and it pays you to do it.

It is a distributed storage network.  Unless you are a farmer, then you don't participate in providing storage.  Just like a person with a bitcoin wallet doesn't participate in mining. 

From the point of view of a user,  it is like dropbox but isn't owned by a single company.   

Unlike the BitTorrent P2P network,  storage nodes get paid coins.



      
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April 24, 2014, 06:55:41 AM
 #87

This is my official prediction that the MaidSafe project will end badly, perhaps similarly to what happened with Neo and Bee.

Check out the LTB interview with David Irvine: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/ltb103-seek-and-find . Stephanie asks about the coin distribution at 20:35. Note how David starts speaking in vague, feel-good platitudes. This isn't generally how honest people behave. He's protesting a bit too much about how pure his intentions are.

Some more evidence if sketchiness: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/04/20/the-brokenness-of-maidsafe/

As of right now, the Safecoin fundraising address has raised 6,691 BTC in the past few days.

It's kind of sketchy how fawning the LTB interview of Irvine was, and how they gave this guy such a big platform to hype his product right before his big fundraiser without asking any tough questions.





 
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April 24, 2014, 07:37:30 AM
 #88

This is my official prediction that the MaidSafe project will end badly, perhaps similarly to what happened with Neo and Bee.

Check out the LTB interview with David Irvine: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/ltb103-seek-and-find . Stephanie asks about the coin distribution at 20:35. Note how David starts speaking in vague, feel-good platitudes. This isn't generally how honest people behave. He's protesting a bit too much about how pure his intentions are.

Some more evidence if sketchiness: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/04/20/the-brokenness-of-maidsafe/

As of right now, the Safecoin fundraising address has raised 6,691 BTC in the past few days.

It's kind of sketchy how fawning the LTB interview of Irvine was, and how they gave this guy such a big platform to hype his product right before his big fundraiser without asking any tough questions.

Who knows. It is quite ambitious but considering the amount of money they have raised, maybe it's possible. Of course, invest only what you can afford to lose. I put in a couple bitcoins, but I would have put more if it was Zuckerberg doing it or something. :-)

Lets see. If they horribly mismanage the project I suspect people could still come after them legally. But even failed projects in bitcoin history have advanced the bitcoin cause, so even a failure to achieve their goals fully might still be a step forward for all of us.

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April 24, 2014, 07:51:12 AM
 #89

I have a question:

MaidSafe is, in theory, going to provide an encrypted, p2p distributed dropbox functionality, correct?

So how is MS going to provide guaranteed 24/7 access to clients data?
Farmers will provide storage space, and recieve SafeCoin as an award, but these guys are mostly not going to be IT pro's who can guarantee 99.9% uptime.
How will MS deal with a farmer that drops out, taking the stored MS data on his/her hard drive with them ?
The only option that I see to come close to guaranteeing 100% uptime of individual clients data will be to stripe/mirror that data over multiple farmers, but even that still doesn't give 100% certainty that all of the data will be online and accessible at any given moment, and will massively increase the amount of storage needed on the MS network.

Anyone have any idea how this will be implemented?




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April 24, 2014, 08:03:12 AM
 #90

I have a question:

MaidSafe is, in theory, going to provide an encrypted, p2p distributed dropbox functionality, correct?

So how is MS going to provide guaranteed 24/7 access to clients data?
Farmers will provide storage space, and recieve SafeCoin as an award, but these guys are mostly not going to be IT pro's who can guarantee 99.9% uptime.
How will MS deal with a farmer that drops out, taking the stored MS data on his/her hard drive with them ?
The only option that I see to come close to guaranteeing 100% uptime of individual clients data will be to stripe/mirror that data over multiple farmers, but even that still doesn't give 100% certainty that all of the data will be online and accessible at any given moment, and will massively increase the amount of storage needed on the MS network.
Anyone have any idea how this will be implemented?

Exactly.

If you consider the fact that the competition for money will centralize all the network in few locations with the best performance and highest bandwidth (like in all crypto), you can be sure that there is a risk of losing data.


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April 24, 2014, 08:05:41 AM
 #91

I have a question:

MaidSafe is, in theory, going to provide an encrypted, p2p distributed dropbox functionality, correct?

So how is MS going to provide guaranteed 24/7 access to clients data?
Farmers will provide storage space, and recieve SafeCoin as an award, but these guys are mostly not going to be IT pro's who can guarantee 99.9% uptime.
How will MS deal with a farmer that drops out, taking the stored MS data on his/her hard drive with them ?
The only option that I see to come close to guaranteeing 100% uptime of individual clients data will be to stripe/mirror that data over multiple farmers, but even that still doesn't give 100% certainty that all of the data will be online and accessible at any given moment, and will massively increase the amount of storage needed on the MS network.

Anyone have any idea how this will be implemented?

I am not a developer.  In fact very far from it.  From what I read is that they will always try to maintain at least 4 copies of any file.  So if one computer drops out, 3 are left and then the network will instantly try to make a 4th copy somewhere else.   So people will always be dropping out, but most of the farmers will be leaving their machines on all the time and so it'll be hard for 4 copies to go down exactly at once.  But yes, if they do, a person would have to wait until one of them hopefully turned their farmer back on.  

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April 24, 2014, 08:33:45 AM
 #92


MaidSafe will have access to your data any time, will be able to sell it and I think they will do as they are greedy as hell.


I know is feeding the troll, but just one hint: The data will be ENCRYPTED. So no selling or accesing. ENCRYPTED.


Jesus.



If someone encrypt something I suppose they can decrypt it also...
Encrypted for us the users... not for them... did I miss something?

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April 24, 2014, 10:55:57 AM
 #93


MaidSafe will have access to your data any time, will be able to sell it and I think they will do as they are greedy as hell.


I know is feeding the troll, but just one hint: The data will be ENCRYPTED. So no selling or accesing. ENCRYPTED.


Jesus.



If someone encrypt something I suppose they can decrypt it also...
Encrypted for us the users... not for them... did I miss something?


The encryption is all handled client side and explained in the papers and in the code (encrypt library). It is a form of convergent encryption and chunking. The network cannot decrypt the data, neither could any human without the keys (barring of course some massive code error etc. like any system). The code is all open source and audited by many devs universities and other parties. You can take a look and see how we have done some of these things, it is pretty good we think.

The point of the whole thing is you are in control, you and the machine, no humans and no intermediaries. That is a more natural way to work and very scalable.
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April 24, 2014, 11:03:32 AM
 #94


MaidSafe will have access to your data any time, will be able to sell it and I think they will do as they are greedy as hell.


I know is feeding the troll, but just one hint: The data will be ENCRYPTED. So no selling or accesing. ENCRYPTED.


Jesus.



If someone encrypt something I suppose they can decrypt it also...
Encrypted for us the users... not for them... did I miss something?


The encryption is all handled client side and explained in the papers and in the code (encrypt library). It is a form of convergent encryption and chunking. The network cannot decrypt the data, neither could any human without the keys (barring of course some massive code error etc. like any system). The code is all open source and audited by many devs universities and other parties. You can take a look and see how we have done some of these things, it is pretty good we think.

The point of the whole thing is you are in control, you and the machine, no humans and no intermediaries. That is a more natural way to work and very scalable.

Can you comment how the data dispersion algorithm differs from Cleversafe?


      
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April 24, 2014, 11:08:44 AM
 #95

I have a question:

MaidSafe is, in theory, going to provide an encrypted, p2p distributed dropbox functionality, correct?

So how is MS going to provide guaranteed 24/7 access to clients data?
Farmers will provide storage space, and recieve SafeCoin as an award, but these guys are mostly not going to be IT pro's who can guarantee 99.9% uptime.
How will MS deal with a farmer that drops out, taking the stored MS data on his/her hard drive with them ?
The only option that I see to come close to guaranteeing 100% uptime of individual clients data will be to stripe/mirror that data over multiple farmers, but even that still doesn't give 100% certainty that all of the data will be online and accessible at any given moment, and will massively increase the amount of storage needed on the MS network.
Anyone have any idea how this will be implemented?

Exactly.

If you consider the fact that the competition for money will centralize all the network in few locations with the best performance and highest bandwidth (like in all crypto), you can be sure that there is a risk of losing data.



The Proof of Resource calculations appear to incentivize Quality of Service, so an unreliable node will tend to be avoided.  Furthermore, there is a level of replication such that even if nodes fail, the data will always be available in other nodes.  100% guarantee however is likely not possible.  I think however we are working with very low probabilities here with the data being striped and mirrored. 


      
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dirvine
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April 24, 2014, 11:14:54 AM
 #96

I have a question:

MaidSafe is, in theory, going to provide an encrypted, p2p distributed dropbox functionality, correct?

So how is MS going to provide guaranteed 24/7 access to clients data?
Farmers will provide storage space, and recieve SafeCoin as an award, but these guys are mostly not going to be IT pro's who can guarantee 99.9% uptime.
How will MS deal with a farmer that drops out, taking the stored MS data on his/her hard drive with them ?
The only option that I see to come close to guaranteeing 100% uptime of individual clients data will be to stripe/mirror that data over multiple farmers, but even that still doesn't give 100% certainty that all of the data will be online and accessible at any given moment, and will massively increase the amount of storage needed on the MS network.
Anyone have any idea how this will be implemented?

Exactly.

If you consider the fact that the competition for money will centralize all the network in few locations with the best performance and highest bandwidth (like in all crypto), you can be sure that there is a risk of losing data.



 

The Proof of Resource calculations appear to incentivize Quality of Service, so an unreliable node will tend to be avoided.  Furthermore, there is a level of replication such that even if nodes fail, the data will always be available in other nodes.  100% guarantee however is likely not possible.  I think however we are working with very low probabilities here with the data being striped and mirrored. 


Excellent opinion, all of the network is a probability matrix really. I suppose all crypto is as well. The key as you rightly point out is to make the probability of loss or collision so low it is negligible over a huge timescale. It is hard to get your head around this for some people, me included at the start, as you think cpu == 100% correct math all the time. It's just not true in real life, everything is a probability and this is an excellent point, well made.

Thanks (btw address space is 2^512 so larger than the number of atoms in visible universe almost squared, not always good to use that number but a good starting point in the thought process)
MadisonC
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April 24, 2014, 11:18:20 AM
 #97

How come nobody's talking about this? http://maidsafe.net
Looks like one of the most innovative uses of
the blockchain concept since bitcoin itself. After
all it's it just about the money ;-)

Maidsafe raised the amount is too big, hope maidsafe can develop better

dirvine
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April 24, 2014, 11:23:33 AM
 #98

How come nobody's talking about this? http://maidsafe.net
Looks like one of the most innovative uses of
the blockchain concept since bitcoin itself. After
all it's it just about the money ;-)

Maidsafe raised the amount is too big, hope maidsafe can develop better



The point is it is not maidsafe any more. MaidSafe is now part of a huge community and one that grows each day now. The community are taking over creating forums, looking at and testing code and networks and developing applications. The raise will pay for some of this, so MaidSafe will be using some money to set up competitors in core development, which is great.

We are proud members of the maidsafe community and believe this is true open source, open development and real decentralisation. We have a huge job to do in the next few months to kick off the network and help some devs get their apps on line, we will become less important very soon. We should all celebrate this way of working, it is decentralisation and a business model that may prove to be radical and copied by many. Of course we all see the dangers etc. but nobody got anywhere without moving things forward, lets see what's round the next corner :-)
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April 24, 2014, 11:24:45 AM
 #99

You guys are all talking about tech specifications. No one cares about morality, about what they have done.

dirvine
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April 24, 2014, 11:34:16 AM
 #100


MaidSafe will have access to your data any time, will be able to sell it and I think they will do as they are greedy as hell.


I know is feeding the troll, but just one hint: The data will be ENCRYPTED. So no selling or accesing. ENCRYPTED.


Jesus.



If someone encrypt something I suppose they can decrypt it also...
Encrypted for us the users... not for them... did I miss something?


The encryption is all handled client side and explained in the papers and in the code (encrypt library). It is a form of convergent encryption and chunking. The network cannot decrypt the data, neither could any human without the keys (barring of course some massive code error etc. like any system). The code is all open source and audited by many devs universities and other parties. You can take a look and see how we have done some of these things, it is pretty good we think.

The point of the whole thing is you are in control, you and the machine, no humans and no intermediaries. That is a more natural way to work and very scalable.

Can you comment how the data dispersion algorithm differs from Cleversafe?

Not really, I am not sure the source is available for that. I see they use FEC, we do not, instead we use replication, and we disperse data randomly across a DHT Address space with replication and failover techniques involving account synchronisation and an accumulator pattern.
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