Is the West gearing up to invade Russia once again?

[Nemo1024]

Hm... There are increasing talks of Sweden and Finland joining NATO, and it worries Moscow. Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs say that that region was generally seen as one with low military and political tension (read: low-threat), but if those two countries join NATO, that will mark a power shift.
http://ria.ru/world/20140531/1010114097.html

Encircling continues...

[deisik]

Ok, you don't trust Wikipedia, no problem there. But lo, I went through your recent posts (actually just the first pages on your profile), and saw you quoting what? You guess, it was Wikipedia, lol!

For topics outside the politically charged ones, Wikipedia is a valuable reference tool. All I am saying is that Wikipedia can't be trusted to get information on various current affairs topics.

Okay, now back to the Revolutionary Guards engaged in military actions in Syria in particular and Iranian support for Syria in the Syrian Civil War as whole (as you pretend that Iran never interferes in the politics of other nations). If you look through the Wikipedia article on the topic, you will see a lot of sources. If I were to believe you, I should consider them all fake, right?

Just some quotes (they are very well substantiated in the article with multiple sources provided):

In May 2012, in an interview with the Iranian Students News Agency which was later removed from its website, the deputy head of Iran's Quds Force said that it had provided combat troops to support Syrian military operations. It was alleged by the Western media that Iran also trained fighters from Hezbollah, a Shia militant group based in Lebanon

Iranian security and intelligence services are advising and assisting the Syrian military in order to preserve Bashar al-Assad's hold on power. Those efforts include training, technical support, combat troops. By December 2013 Iran was thought to have approximately 10,000 operatives in Syria

In 2014, coinciding with the peace talks at Geneva II, Iran has stepped up support for Syrian President Assad. Syrian Minister of Finance and Economy announced that "Iranian regime has given more than 15 billion dollars" to Syria

Are you still going to adhere to your position?

[bryant.coleman]

Are you still going to adhere to your position?

About Iran giving Syria financial support, I'll agree. But I am not going to agree with you that the revolutionary guards were sent to Syria.

If your attack is unexpected (or well prepared), then your losses may be miniscule compared to that of the defenders

I was talking about the Nazis attacking the USSR in 1939. Although Stalin was not expecting it, most of his military commanders were of the opposite opinion.

[Nemo1024]

Just found an article in Russian, that basically has the same title as this thread:

The West prepares for war with Russia:
http://vpk-news.ru/news/19567

If you want to read it, use Google translate.

It's an analysis presented by the president of Academy for geopolitical problem, doctor of military science, Konstantin Sivkov, where he comments re-purposing of NATO strategic aviation for delivery of nuclear charges, and the recent NATO decision to increase the number of tactical nuclear warheads in Europe.

[Trading]

That is an opinion, I would like to see evidences.

Anyway, one thing is to prepare for war, for defense and intimidation purposes, another completely different is having a goal to go to war.

Even Putin said that Nato is no threat.

[deisik]

Are you still going to adhere to your position?

About Iran giving Syria financial support, I'll agree. But I am not going to agree with you that the revolutionary guards were sent to Syria

So this doesn't fit as "interfering in the politics of other nations", right? 

Now back to the Iranian military support for Syria. Do you consider the information in this article from Reuters as false? Here's the excerpt from it:

A recently retired senior IRGC commander said Iranian forces on the ground included some Arabic speakers. He said top Quds force commanders numbered 60 to 70 at any given time.

These men were tasked with advising and training Assad's military and his commanders, he said. Revolutionary Guards directed the fighting on the instructions of the Quds Force commanders, he added.

The former IRGC commander said these personnel were also backed up by thousands of Iranian paramilitary Basij volunteer fighters as well as Arabic speakers including Shi'ites from Iraq. The former Iranian official and a Syrian opposition source also put auxiliary forces in the thousands.

The figures could not be independently verified from Syria, but the deaths of at least two IRGC commanders in Syria have been publicly reported

This is just one article provided as a source to the Wikipedia text you claimed as unauthentic. Heck, why should I believe you if you don't even care to substantiate your words with anything?

[bryant.coleman]

So this doesn't fit as "interfering in the politics of other nations", right? 

Now back to the Iranian military support for Syria. Do you consider the information in this article from Reuters as false? Here's the excerpt from it:

This is just one article provided as a source to the Wikipedia text you claimed as unauthentic. Heck, why should I believe you if you don't even care to substantiate your words with anything?

Giving economic support is different from sending in the mercenaries. So I think Iran's involvement is completely justified. And regarding the Reuters article, I will not believe any of it, unless they have some concrete proof, such as Iranian ID cards issued by the IRGC.

[deisik]

So this doesn't fit as "interfering in the politics of other nations", right?  

Now back to the Iranian military support for Syria. Do you consider the information in this article from Reuters as false? Here's the excerpt from it:

This is just one article provided as a source to the Wikipedia text you claimed as unauthentic. Heck, why should I believe you if you don't even care to substantiate your words with anything?

Giving economic support is different from sending in the mercenaries. So I think Iran's involvement is completely justified. And regarding the Reuters article, I will not believe any of it, unless they have some concrete proof, such as Iranian ID cards issued by the IRGC.

Yes, indeed it is different. But could you entirely discard financial support as not meddling with the politics of other nations? If this support is provided to the rebels in Syria, would you consider this as interfering into internal affairs of this country? What about hiring mercenaries instead of sending them directly?

Many non-for-profit organizations were closed in Russia just on this basis (returning on topic now), i.e. for being financed by the U.S. government...

[bryant.coleman]

Yes, indeed it is different. But could you entirely discard financial support as not meddling with the politics of other nations? If this support is provided to the rebels in Syria, would you consider this as interfering into internal affairs of this country? What about hiring mercenaries instead of sending them directly?

Iran didn't hire any mercenaries to fight in Syria. It was the US which did so.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=628236.0

Many non-for-profit organizations were closed in Russia just on this basis (returning on topic now), i.e. for being financed by the U.S. government...

Everyone knows that these NGOs actually do. We have seen their role during the Ukrianian crisis. So Russia is perfectly right in banning those NGOs.

[deisik]

Many non-for-profit organizations were closed in Russia just on this basis (returning on topic now), i.e. for being financed by the U.S. government...

Everyone knows that these NGOs actually do. We have seen their role during the Ukrianian crisis. So Russia is perfectly right in banning those NGOs.

This was not my point. Would you consider their activities as the interference by the USA into the internal affairs of Russia?

[Nemo1024]

Yes.

PS: Isn't about time Iran got it's own thread?

[deisik]

Yes, indeed it is different. But could you entirely discard financial support as not meddling with the politics of other nations? If this support is provided to the rebels in Syria, would you consider this as interfering into internal affairs of this country? What about hiring mercenaries instead of sending them directly?

Iran didn't hire any mercenaries to fight in Syria. It was the US which did so.

As I may guess, you also deny that Hezbollah (which is active in Syria) was founded and funded by Iran following the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and its forces were trained and organized by a contingent of 1,500 Iranian Revolutionary Guards that arrived from Iran with permission from the Syrian government?

Another quote from here:

The movement first emerged during Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon, in which between twelve and nineteen thousand Lebanese died, most of them civilians and many of them Shiites. Militant followers of the Ayatollah Khomeini, Hezbollah’s original cadres were organized and trained by a 1,500-member contingent of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards, who arrived in Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley in the summer of 1982, with the permission of the Syrian government. For Iran, whose efforts to spread the Islamic revolution to the Arab world had been stymied by its war with Iraq, Hezbollah provided a means of gaining a foothold in Middle East politics

Personally, you may believe what you please, but statements that Iran has no interest in the politics of neighboring countries seem to be not grounded at all and don't fit well with the facts...

[bryant.coleman]

Many non-for-profit organizations were closed in Russia just on this basis (returning on topic now), i.e. for being financed by the U.S. government...

Everyone knows that these NGOs actually do. We have seen their role during the Ukrianian crisis. So Russia is perfectly right in banning those NGOs.

This was not my point. Would you consider their activities as the interference by the USA into the internal affairs of Russia?

Yes. The US funded NGOs are creating ethnic hatred and other malicious activities inside Russia. I consider their activities as the interference by the USA into the internal affairs of Russia.

[Balthazar]

Many non-for-profit organizations were closed in Russia just on this basis (returning on topic now), i.e. for being financed by the U.S. government...

Everyone knows that these NGOs actually do. We have seen their role during the Ukrianian crisis. So Russia is perfectly right in banning those NGOs.

This was not my point. Would you consider their activities as the interference by the USA into the internal affairs of Russia?

Yes. The US funded NGOs are creating ethnic hatred and other malicious activities inside Russia. I consider their activities as the interference by the USA into the internal affairs of Russia.

NGOs aren't banned in RF. Those organizations are allowed to function but, according to foreign agent law, all their spendings and incomings must be transparent. Even religion organizations like catholic church are publishing reports on their financial activity. More than a half of NGOs have closed themselves after adoption of foreign agent law, due to their involvement into corruption schemes.

P.S. It's interesting that USA and almost all EU countries have anti-NGO laws, which are much more hostile in comparison with this foreign agent law.

[deisik]

Many non-for-profit organizations were closed in Russia just on this basis (returning on topic now), i.e. for being financed by the U.S. government...

Everyone knows that these NGOs actually do. We have seen their role during the Ukrianian crisis. So Russia is perfectly right in banning those NGOs.

This was not my point. Would you consider their activities as the interference by the USA into the internal affairs of Russia?

Yes. The US funded NGOs are creating ethnic hatred and other malicious activities inside Russia. I consider their activities as the interference by the USA into the internal affairs of Russia.

What about Hezbollah then? Confirm that you think Iran has nothing to do with them (no financial or whatever support)...

[Balthazar]

Hezbollah is not NGO, it's a political party. They even have seats in the parliament... But they also have armed wing.

[deisik]

Hezbollah is not NGO, it's a political party. They even have seats in the parliament... But they also have armed wing.

This is irrelevant to the question raised (i.e. whether Iran is interested in interfering in other countries' politics). What is relevant is that it was organized, got military training, weapons, and financial support from Iran...

[Trading]

The Iran support for Shia movements, like Hezbollah, is well documented.

There is a proxy war being fought between sunni and shia countries, with Iran on one side, the Saudi Arabia/Qatar on the other.

Basically, it's what has been going on in Iraq and Syria (with the Alawites, as a shia sect, being supported by the shias).

[deisik]

The Iran support for Shia movements, like Hezbollah, is well documented.

Some people here obviously seem to consider these documents as fakes...

[Trading]

Nothing like a biased perspective of the world to deny everything. Some can even arguing against the Heliocentrism.