| Nxt | Blockchain Platform | Proof of Stake | Official

[TwinWinNerD]

Edit: you went from 'top 20 owning 90%' to 'top 10 owning 1/3'.  Which is it?

It is the second, of course. Top 20 were owning 100% initially. I did not know how much now. Now I do and it is almost 1/3. Still showing an evident distribution problem... which is THE problem. Don't disperse....

Having a relatively small number of large accounts to add up to >50% actually helps NXT network security. It is much harder for an attacker to gain control over a few dozen highly motivated people (who each have a sizeable interest in keeping network secure) than over hundreds or thousands of people who wouldnt be so interested.

If you know the founders personally like i do, you will realize that they are ordinary guys and getting them to all agree on anything is near impossible. For them to agree to destroy NXT integrity by pulling off some sort of 51% attack is absurd.

Theoretically all sorts of horrible things can happen to anything, in reality, there are common sense things that limit such crazy scenarios. bitcoin is also based on this self-interest model. The more you have, the less likely you are to want to destroy it.

James

But that dear James is wanting to assume that those top 20 holders will not be the perpetrators of the attack... which makes the whole point.

But of course, like Twin here, you are on to your own scams, so please do carry on...

You may write in a calm and friendly way, but you are full of shit.

You think that the top 20 would consider attacking the network and harming it ,but you have not stated a single logically valid argument as to why they would do it. You said that they could take away a persons money. Now, tell me how they would do it? You said, that they could take someones money and just say someone hacked them or stole it. HOW WOULD THEY DO IT? Either you don't understand a 51% attack or you are a troll.

Explain yourself..

[barabbas]

What makes this a total scam is not just the outrageous distribution problems but the obvious -and inevitable- manipulation of the market. I mean these guys could be saints and still not being able to NOT manipulate the markets with the amounts they hold by, first, being unfairly rewarded via forging and second and way more importantly, by the inevitable effect of their selling. These are new minted millonaires. They NEED to sell in order to buy homes, cars and all the perks of being new millonaires. Simply by selling small (orderly, is the word) portions of their collective holdings, will keep the price unrealistically lower -thus hurting later investors, traders, and the coin itself-. therefore MANIPULATING it. And that is if you assume they are simply new rich, not greedy, actually saintly people without any further, let alone perverse, intentions, in which case the manipulation could have grotesque effects.

Insufficient distribution, which is the problem here, in fact doesn't allow the market to actually reflect, as it should, offer and demand, because the massive (albeit "orderly") selling does not allow the demand for the coin to bring the price to realistic levels. In other words, where tens if not hundreds of people want to buy, only one or a few NEED to sell. I am, in fact, extremely surprised this coin has reached the valuation it has considering this circumstance alone. The restrain of the top holders in selling is baffling, actually. And, in my view, impossible to keep.

It does blow my mind, in fact, if the founder doesn't own any coins. I don't believe you in that one either. Nor when you state that the devs "don't control any significant portion of the coins". But since there's no way to prove it either way, I guess we will have to just leave it at that.

Yet you ignore that 0.1% of wallets own 50% of all Bitcoins in circulation? They could all "decide together" to dump all $3bil, too. But they wont. Big holders of NXT will not either. It's not baffling, you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.

And no, the top holders are not the devs.

Btw, it's known that Sataoshi holders over 1 Million Bitcoins, which is ~15% of Bitcoins in circulation, does this concern you as well?

Pandaisftw

Oh and it is so incredibly funny when someone pretends to know how many NXT the founder or the developers have... really. how do you know, because they have stated so on a forum, anonymously? Let me quote a full post that reflects my thoughts exactly, under the linked, totally misleading, infographics:

"do you work in NSA or do have some prove that these 76 or 71 people were different human beings and not only 1 or 2 developers?

you don't even have IP addresses of that userids so what make you believe that you can rely on relatively anonymous posts on bicointalk where anyone can have so many identities which he is able to use??

So how can you know how many altcoins/NXT BCnext have??"

[TwinWinNerD]

What makes this a total scam is not just the outrageous distribution problems but the obvious -and inevitable- manipulation of the market. I mean these guys could be saints and still not being able to NOT manipulate the markets with the amounts they hold by, first, being unfairly rewarded via forging and second and way more importantly, by the inevitable effect of their selling. These are new minted millonaires. They NEED to sell in order to buy homes, cars and all the perks of being new millonaires. Simply by selling small (orderly, is the word) portions of their collective holdings, will keep the price unrealistically lower -thus hurting later investors, traders, and the coin itself-. therefore MANIPULATING it. And that is if you assume they are simply new rich, not greedy, actually saintly people without any further, let alone perverse, intentions, in which case the manipulation could have grotesque effects.

Insufficient distribution, which is the problem here, in fact doesn't allow the market to actually reflect, as it should, offer and demand, because the massive (albeit "orderly") selling does not allow the demand for the coin to bring the price to realistic levels. In other words, where tens if not hundreds of people want to buy, only one or a few NEED to sell. I am, in fact, extremely surprised this coin has reached the valuation it has considering this circumstance alone. The restrain of the top holders in selling is baffling, actually. And, in my view, impossible to keep.

It does blow my mind, in fact, if the founder doesn't own any coins. I don't believe you in that one either. Nor when you state that the devs "don't control any significant portion of the coins". But since there's no way to prove it either way, I guess we will have to just leave it at that.

Yet you ignore that 0.1% of wallets own 50% of all Bitcoins in circulation? They could all "decide together" to dump all $3bil, too. But they wont. Big holders of NXT will not either. It's not baffling, you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.

And no, the top holders are not the devs.

Btw, it's known that Sataoshi holders over 1 Million Bitcoins, which is ~15% of Bitcoins in circulation, does this concern you as well?

Pandaisftw

Oh and it is so incredibly funny when someone pretends to know how many NXT the founder or the developers have... really. how do you know, because they have stated so on a forum, anonymously? Let me quote a full post that reflects my thoughts exactly, under the linked, totally misleading, infographics:

"do you work in NSA or do have some prove that these 76 or 71 people were different human beings and not only 1 or 2 developers?

you don't even have IP addresses of that userids so what make you believe that you can rely on relatively anonymous posts on bicointalk where anyone can have so many identities which he is able to use??

So how can you know how many altcoins/NXT BCnext have??"

Since when do people have to disprove claims instead of the claimers have to prove things?

[barabbas]

Edit: you went from 'top 20 owning 90%' to 'top 10 owning 1/3'.  Which is it?

It is the second, of course. Top 20 were owning 100% initially. I did not know how much now. Now I do and it is almost 1/3. Still showing an evident distribution problem... which is THE problem. Don't disperse....

Having a relatively small number of large accounts to add up to >50% actually helps NXT network security. It is much harder for an attacker to gain control over a few dozen highly motivated people (who each have a sizeable interest in keeping network secure) than over hundreds or thousands of people who wouldnt be so interested.

If you know the founders personally like i do, you will realize that they are ordinary guys and getting them to all agree on anything is near impossible. For them to agree to destroy NXT integrity by pulling off some sort of 51% attack is absurd.

Theoretically all sorts of horrible things can happen to anything, in reality, there are common sense things that limit such crazy scenarios. bitcoin is also based on this self-interest model. The more you have, the less likely you are to want to destroy it.

James

But that dear James is wanting to assume that those top 20 holders will not be the perpetrators of the attack... which makes the whole point.

But of course, like Twin here, you are on to your own scams, so please do carry on...

You may write in a calm and friendly way, but you are full of shit.

You think that the top 20 would consider attacking the network and harming it ,but you have not stated a single logically valid argument as to why they would do it. You said that they could take away a persons money. Now, tell me how they would do it? You said, that they could take someones money and just say someone hacked them or stole it. HOW WOULD THEY DO IT? Either you don't understand a 51% attack or you are a troll.

Explain yourself..

For just this once more, I'll entertain you questions. Either you are capable of debate in a polite AND educated manner, or just go on to your scams and leave me alone, ok?

Final answer to the "question": An attack would cause total panic and the price would go to near ZERO. Since the only millonaires in NEXT are the person or persons who control those top wallets -including the ones that have sold most of their coins- the could easily buy back for peanuts all existing coins. And, in actuality, since they perpetrated the attack and have total control of the network, no actual damage, let alone "destruction", would have happened at all.

Oh, but since "they" are all saints and one of them actually doesn't even own one NEXT (the founder), as some would lead you to believe, they are not going to do that, are they? They are such nice people...

[barabbas]

What makes this a total scam is not just the outrageous distribution problems but the obvious -and inevitable- manipulation of the market. I mean these guys could be saints and still not being able to NOT manipulate the markets with the amounts they hold by, first, being unfairly rewarded via forging and second and way more importantly, by the inevitable effect of their selling. These are new minted millonaires. They NEED to sell in order to buy homes, cars and all the perks of being new millonaires. Simply by selling small (orderly, is the word) portions of their collective holdings, will keep the price unrealistically lower -thus hurting later investors, traders, and the coin itself-. therefore MANIPULATING it. And that is if you assume they are simply new rich, not greedy, actually saintly people without any further, let alone perverse, intentions, in which case the manipulation could have grotesque effects.

Insufficient distribution, which is the problem here, in fact doesn't allow the market to actually reflect, as it should, offer and demand, because the massive (albeit "orderly") selling does not allow the demand for the coin to bring the price to realistic levels. In other words, where tens if not hundreds of people want to buy, only one or a few NEED to sell. I am, in fact, extremely surprised this coin has reached the valuation it has considering this circumstance alone. The restrain of the top holders in selling is baffling, actually. And, in my view, impossible to keep.

It does blow my mind, in fact, if the founder doesn't own any coins. I don't believe you in that one either. Nor when you state that the devs "don't control any significant portion of the coins". But since there's no way to prove it either way, I guess we will have to just leave it at that.

Yet you ignore that 0.1% of wallets own 50% of all Bitcoins in circulation? They could all "decide together" to dump all $3bil, too. But they wont. Big holders of NXT will not either. It's not baffling, you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.

And no, the top holders are not the devs.

Btw, it's known that Sataoshi holders over 1 Million Bitcoins, which is ~15% of Bitcoins in circulation, does this concern you as well?

Pandaisftw

Oh and it is so incredibly funny when someone pretends to know how many NXT the founder or the developers have... really. how do you know, because they have stated so on a forum, anonymously? Let me quote a full post that reflects my thoughts exactly, under the linked, totally misleading, infographics:

"do you work in NSA or do have some prove that these 76 or 71 people were different human beings and not only 1 or 2 developers?

you don't even have IP addresses of that userids so what make you believe that you can rely on relatively anonymous posts on bicointalk where anyone can have so many identities which he is able to use??

So how can you know how many altcoins/NXT BCnext have??"

Since when do people have to disprove claims instead of the claimers have to prove things?

It would be called transparency... but you don't wanna know anything about that would you?

[TwinWinNerD]

Edit: you went from 'top 20 owning 90%' to 'top 10 owning 1/3'.  Which is it?

It is the second, of course. Top 20 were owning 100% initially. I did not know how much now. Now I do and it is almost 1/3. Still showing an evident distribution problem... which is THE problem. Don't disperse....

Having a relatively small number of large accounts to add up to >50% actually helps NXT network security. It is much harder for an attacker to gain control over a few dozen highly motivated people (who each have a sizeable interest in keeping network secure) than over hundreds or thousands of people who wouldnt be so interested.

If you know the founders personally like i do, you will realize that they are ordinary guys and getting them to all agree on anything is near impossible. For them to agree to destroy NXT integrity by pulling off some sort of 51% attack is absurd.

Theoretically all sorts of horrible things can happen to anything, in reality, there are common sense things that limit such crazy scenarios. bitcoin is also based on this self-interest model. The more you have, the less likely you are to want to destroy it.

James

But that dear James is wanting to assume that those top 20 holders will not be the perpetrators of the attack... which makes the whole point.

But of course, like Twin here, you are on to your own scams, so please do carry on...

You may write in a calm and friendly way, but you are full of shit.

You think that the top 20 would consider attacking the network and harming it ,but you have not stated a single logically valid argument as to why they would do it. You said that they could take away a persons money. Now, tell me how they would do it? You said, that they could take someones money and just say someone hacked them or stole it. HOW WOULD THEY DO IT? Either you don't understand a 51% attack or you are a troll.

Explain yourself..

For just this once more, I'll entertain you questions. Either you are capable of debate in a polite AND educated manner, or just go on to your scams and leave me alone, ok?

Final answer to the "question": An attack would cause total panic and the price would go to near ZERO. Since the only millonaires in NEXT are the person or persons who control those top wallets -including the ones that have sold most of their coins- the could easily buy back for peanuts all existing coins. And, in actuality, since they perpetrated the attack and have total control of the network, no actual damage, let alone "destruction", would have happened at all.

Oh, but since "they" are all saints and one of them actually doesn't even own one NEXT (the founder), as some would lead you to believe, they are not going to do that, are they? They are such nice people...

This is no logically valid argument. You base your "theory" on the fact that
a) the people would instantly sell all their NXT for peanuts
b) that the people would buy those NXT ever again, after they know what just had happend

Explain a) and b)

[pandaisftw]

What makes this a total scam is not just the outrageous distribution problems but the obvious -and inevitable- manipulation of the market. I mean these guys could be saints and still not being able to NOT manipulate the markets with the amounts they hold by, first, being unfairly rewarded via forging and second and way more importantly, by the inevitable effect of their selling. These are new minted millonaires. They NEED to sell in order to buy homes, cars and all the perks of being new millonaires. Simply by selling small (orderly, is the word) portions of their collective holdings, will keep the price unrealistically lower -thus hurting later investors, traders, and the coin itself-. therefore MANIPULATING it. And that is if you assume they are simply new rich, not greedy, actually saintly people without any further, let alone perverse, intentions, in which case the manipulation could have grotesque effects.

Insufficient distribution, which is the problem here, in fact doesn't allow the market to actually reflect, as it should, offer and demand, because the massive (albeit "orderly") selling does not allow the demand for the coin to bring the price to realistic levels. In other words, where tens if not hundreds of people want to buy, only one or a few NEED to sell. I am, in fact, extremely surprised this coin has reached the valuation it has considering this circumstance alone. The restrain of the top holders in selling is baffling, actually. And, in my view, impossible to keep.

It does blow my mind, in fact, if the founder doesn't own any coins. I don't believe you in that one either. Nor when you state that the devs "don't control any significant portion of the coins". But since there's no way to prove it either way, I guess we will have to just leave it at that.

Yet you ignore that 0.1% of wallets own 50% of all Bitcoins in circulation? They could all "decide together" to dump all $3bil, too. But they wont. Big holders of NXT will not either. It's not baffling, you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.

And no, the top holders are not the devs.

Btw, it's known that Sataoshi holders over 1 Million Bitcoins, which is ~15% of Bitcoins in circulation, does this concern you as well?

Pandaisftw

Oh and it is so incredibly funny when someone pretends to know how many NXT the founder or the developers have... really. how do you know, because they have stated so on a forum, anonymously? Let me quote a full post that reflects my thoughts exactly, under the linked, totally misleading, infographics:

"do you work in NSA or do have some prove that these 76 or 71 people were different human beings and not only 1 or 2 developers?

you don't even have IP addresses of that userids so what make you believe that you can rely on relatively anonymous posts on bicointalk where anyone can have so many identities which he is able to use??

So how can you know how many altcoins/NXT BCnext have??"

How can you prove that 90% of the bitcoin hash power isn't owned by the NSA? Oh, you mean that anonymous miners told you they own a rig? Have you actually talked to 90% of miners to manually add up their hash power? I don't think so.

Your arguments are ridiculous.

I have spoken to some of these holders, and yes, they are real people just like you and me.

Pandaisftw

[TwinWinNerD]

It would be called transparency... but you don't wanna know anything about that would you?

They stated how much they own, you can beleive it or not. But how do you want to be transparent about a system that was set up to protect anonymity. Do you know who owns a certain 10000 BTC address? Do you know who owns a 50 mil NXT address? No!

Do you care? Apparently. Why? I don't know, because you obviously don't own NXT, don't plan on ever doing it.

[JustBetweenUs]

Looks like someone wants to drive the price down to get some cheap Nxt.

[bluemeanie1]

How can you prove that 90% of the bitcoin hash power isn't owned by the NSA? Oh, you mean that anonymous miners told you they own a rig? Have you actually talked to 90% of miners to manually add up their hash power? I don't think so.

Your arguments are ridiculous.

I have spoken to some of these holders, and yes, they are real people just like you and me.

Pandaisftw

also we're still not clear that the ECC curve used in Bitcoin is safe, whereas the NXT curve 25519 was created by David Bernstein, long time activist/cypherpunk figure.

-bm

[barabbas]

What makes this a total scam is not just the outrageous distribution problems but the obvious -and inevitable- manipulation of the market. I mean these guys could be saints and still not being able to NOT manipulate the markets with the amounts they hold by, first, being unfairly rewarded via forging and second and way more importantly, by the inevitable effect of their selling. These are new minted millonaires. They NEED to sell in order to buy homes, cars and all the perks of being new millonaires. Simply by selling small (orderly, is the word) portions of their collective holdings, will keep the price unrealistically lower -thus hurting later investors, traders, and the coin itself-. therefore MANIPULATING it. And that is if you assume they are simply new rich, not greedy, actually saintly people without any further, let alone perverse, intentions, in which case the manipulation could have grotesque effects.

Insufficient distribution, which is the problem here, in fact doesn't allow the market to actually reflect, as it should, offer and demand, because the massive (albeit "orderly") selling does not allow the demand for the coin to bring the price to realistic levels. In other words, where tens if not hundreds of people want to buy, only one or a few NEED to sell. I am, in fact, extremely surprised this coin has reached the valuation it has considering this circumstance alone. The restrain of the top holders in selling is baffling, actually. And, in my view, impossible to keep.

It does blow my mind, in fact, if the founder doesn't own any coins. I don't believe you in that one either. Nor when you state that the devs "don't control any significant portion of the coins". But since there's no way to prove it either way, I guess we will have to just leave it at that.

Yet you ignore that 0.1% of wallets own 50% of all Bitcoins in circulation? They could all "decide together" to dump all $3bil, too. But they wont. Big holders of NXT will not either. It's not baffling, you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.

And no, the top holders are not the devs.

Btw, it's known that Sataoshi holders over 1 Million Bitcoins, which is ~15% of Bitcoins in circulation, does this concern you as well?

Pandaisftw

Oh and it is so incredibly funny when someone pretends to know how many NXT the founder or the developers have... really. how do you know, because they have stated so on a forum, anonymously? Let me quote a full post that reflects my thoughts exactly, under the linked, totally misleading, infographics:

"do you work in NSA or do have some prove that these 76 or 71 people were different human beings and not only 1 or 2 developers?

you don't even have IP addresses of that userids so what make you believe that you can rely on relatively anonymous posts on bicointalk where anyone can have so many identities which he is able to use??

So how can you know how many altcoins/NXT BCnext have??"

How can you prove that 90% of the bitcoin hash power isn't owned by the NSA? Oh, you mean that anonymous miners told you they own a rig? Have you actually talked to 90% of miners to manually add up their hash power? I don't think so.

Your arguments are ridiculous.

I have spoken to some of these holders, and yes, they are real people just like you and me.

Pandaisftw

Actually, your answer is totally ridiculous and argumentative.

1.- Minimal as it is, BTC is a global phenomenon on which several -and growing- real life business are based. It has staying power proven through years of all kinds of attacks and manipulations and a clear path as to what it is, it represents and who the face of it is (The Bitcoin Foundation, with names and addresses, physical ones, as well and TAX IDs attached to it... none of which applies to NXT). Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?

2.- You (who are you, by the way?) may have spoken to "some of these holders" or "Yoda" for all I care. It is argumentative and doesn't add any transparency to the conversation. Either put up or, kindly, shut up.

[lyynx]

What makes this a total scam is not just the outrageous distribution problems but the obvious -and inevitable- manipulation of the market. I mean these guys could be saints and still not being able to NOT manipulate the markets with the amounts they hold by, first, being unfairly rewarded via forging and second and way more importantly, by the inevitable effect of their selling. These are new minted millonaires. They NEED to sell in order to buy homes, cars and all the perks of being new millonaires. Simply by selling small (orderly, is the word) portions of their collective holdings, will keep the price unrealistically lower -thus hurting later investors, traders, and the coin itself-. therefore MANIPULATING it. And that is if you assume they are simply new rich, not greedy, actually saintly people without any further, let alone perverse, intentions, in which case the manipulation could have grotesque effects.

Insufficient distribution, which is the problem here, in fact doesn't allow the market to actually reflect, as it should, offer and demand, because the massive (albeit "orderly") selling does not allow the demand for the coin to bring the price to realistic levels. In other words, where tens if not hundreds of people want to buy, only one or a few NEED to sell. I am, in fact, extremely surprised this coin has reached the valuation it has considering this circumstance alone. The restrain of the top holders in selling is baffling, actually. And, in my view, impossible to keep.

It does blow my mind, in fact, if the founder doesn't own any coins. I don't believe you in that one either. Nor when you state that the devs "don't control any significant portion of the coins". But since there's no way to prove it either way, I guess we will have to just leave it at that.

Yet you ignore that 0.1% of wallets own 50% of all Bitcoins in circulation? They could all "decide together" to dump all $3bil, too. But they wont. Big holders of NXT will not either. It's not baffling, you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.

And no, the top holders are not the devs.

Btw, it's known that Sataoshi holders over 1 Million Bitcoins, which is ~15% of Bitcoins in circulation, does this concern you as well?

Pandaisftw

Oh and it is so incredibly funny when someone pretends to know how many NXT the founder or the developers have... really. how do you know, because they have stated so on a forum, anonymously? Let me quote a full post that reflects my thoughts exactly, under the linked, totally misleading, infographics:

"do you work in NSA or do have some prove that these 76 or 71 people were different human beings and not only 1 or 2 developers?

you don't even have IP addresses of that userids so what make you believe that you can rely on relatively anonymous posts on bicointalk where anyone can have so many identities which he is able to use??

So how can you know how many altcoins/NXT BCnext have??"

How can you prove that 90% of the bitcoin hash power isn't owned by the NSA? Oh, you mean that anonymous miners told you they own a rig? Have you actually talked to 90% of miners to manually add up their hash power? I don't think so.

Your arguments are ridiculous.

I have spoken to some of these holders, and yes, they are real people just like you and me.

Pandaisftw

Actually, your answer is totally ridiculous and argumentative.

1.- Minimal as it is, BTC is a global phenomenon on which several -and growing- real life business are based. It has staying power proven through years of all kinds of attacks and manipulations and a clear path as to what it is, it represents and who the face of it is (The Bitcoin Foundation, with names and addresses, physical ones, as well and TAX IDs attached to it... none of which applies to NXT). Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?

2.- You (who are you, by the way?) may have spoken to "some of these holders" or "Yoda" for all I care. It is argumentative and doesn't add any transparency to the conversation. Either put up or, kindly, shut up.

Sorry, no debates here when you begin with fud. Only harsh treatment from Nxt.

This guy has all the markings of a troll with an agenda. Don't bother explaining anything to him. One look at his past posts in other threads show he is a provocateur and cannot be reasoned with.

He is a pest to be dealt with accordingly. At least Elmo brought a little comedy into the mix.

[barabbas]

What makes this a total scam is not just the outrageous distribution problems but the obvious -and inevitable- manipulation of the market. I mean these guys could be saints and still not being able to NOT manipulate the markets with the amounts they hold by, first, being unfairly rewarded via forging and second and way more importantly, by the inevitable effect of their selling. These are new minted millonaires. They NEED to sell in order to buy homes, cars and all the perks of being new millonaires. Simply by selling small (orderly, is the word) portions of their collective holdings, will keep the price unrealistically lower -thus hurting later investors, traders, and the coin itself-. therefore MANIPULATING it. And that is if you assume they are simply new rich, not greedy, actually saintly people without any further, let alone perverse, intentions, in which case the manipulation could have grotesque effects.

Insufficient distribution, which is the problem here, in fact doesn't allow the market to actually reflect, as it should, offer and demand, because the massive (albeit "orderly") selling does not allow the demand for the coin to bring the price to realistic levels. In other words, where tens if not hundreds of people want to buy, only one or a few NEED to sell. I am, in fact, extremely surprised this coin has reached the valuation it has considering this circumstance alone. The restrain of the top holders in selling is baffling, actually. And, in my view, impossible to keep.

It does blow my mind, in fact, if the founder doesn't own any coins. I don't believe you in that one either. Nor when you state that the devs "don't control any significant portion of the coins". But since there's no way to prove it either way, I guess we will have to just leave it at that.

Yet you ignore that 0.1% of wallets own 50% of all Bitcoins in circulation? They could all "decide together" to dump all $3bil, too. But they wont. Big holders of NXT will not either. It's not baffling, you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.

And no, the top holders are not the devs.

Btw, it's known that Sataoshi holders over 1 Million Bitcoins, which is ~15% of Bitcoins in circulation, does this concern you as well?

Pandaisftw

Oh and it is so incredibly funny when someone pretends to know how many NXT the founder or the developers have... really. how do you know, because they have stated so on a forum, anonymously? Let me quote a full post that reflects my thoughts exactly, under the linked, totally misleading, infographics:

"do you work in NSA or do have some prove that these 76 or 71 people were different human beings and not only 1 or 2 developers?

you don't even have IP addresses of that userids so what make you believe that you can rely on relatively anonymous posts on bicointalk where anyone can have so many identities which he is able to use??

So how can you know how many altcoins/NXT BCnext have??"

How can you prove that 90% of the bitcoin hash power isn't owned by the NSA? Oh, you mean that anonymous miners told you they own a rig? Have you actually talked to 90% of miners to manually add up their hash power? I don't think so.

Your arguments are ridiculous.

I have spoken to some of these holders, and yes, they are real people just like you and me.

Pandaisftw

Actually, your answer is totally ridiculous and argumentative.

1.- Minimal as it is, BTC is a global phenomenon on which several -and growing- real life business are based. It has staying power proven through years of all kinds of attacks and manipulations and a clear path as to what it is, it represents and who the face of it is (The Bitcoin Foundation, with names and addresses, physical ones, as well and TAX IDs attached to it... none of which applies to NXT). Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?

2.- You (who are you, by the way?) may have spoken to "some of these holders" or "Yoda" for all I care. It is argumentative and doesn't add any transparency to the conversation. Either put up or, kindly, shut up.

Sorry, no debates here when you begin with fud. Only harsh treatment from Nxt.

This guy has all the markings of a troll with an agenda. Don't bother explaining anything to him. One look at his past posts in other threads show he is a provocateur and cannot be reasoned with.

He is a pest to be dealt with accordingly. At least Elmo brought a little comedy into the mix.

But I am just starting out... I have investigated only 3 coins. 3 outright scams. NEXT being the most recent....

you can follow me to DARK next. I'll most certainly will post my findings. After that, Master... on the outside chance you may want to really find out what's going on.

Now, here, we all do.

[bluemeanie1]

Why do you think it's a scam Barabbas?  just summarize for us.

-bm

[dzarmush]

Nxt is like a magnet for freaks like Barabbas, it's amazing.

[pandaisftw]

Actually, your answer is totally ridiculous and argumentative.

1.- Minimal as it is, BTC is a global phenomenon on which several -and growing- real life business are based. It has staying power proven through years of all kinds of attacks and manipulations and a clear path as to what it is, it represents and who the face of it is (The Bitcoin Foundation, with names and addresses, physical ones, as well and TAX IDs attached to it... none of which applies to NXT). Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?

2.- You (who are you, by the way?) may have spoken to "some of these holders" or "Yoda" for all I care. It is argumentative and doesn't add any transparency to the conversation. Either put up or, kindly, shut up.

1. So, according to you, 4 years ago, you would have called Bitcoin a scam? If not, then come back in 4 years and we'll talk. (Btw, we have businesses starting up in NXT right now as we speak)

Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?

Prove it. (In case you missed it, this example was to show how ridiculous your arguments were, you were asking me to prove something as equally ridiculous.)

2. It doesn't matter who I am, but I am one of those who are starting a business based on the NXT platform.

Who are you?

Pandaisftw

[barabbas]

Why do you think it's a scam Barabbas?  just summarize for us.

-bm

I guess if I don't answer you the interested parties -you can find them and their schemes generally at the AE, with many more to come-, would continue to 'disperse", so I will try to summarize the evidence:

Call it what you like, this was not only pre-mined but given away to 70-odd wallets (which can easily be controlled by one or a handful of individuals). That should light up the reds in itself, more than a Christmas Tree. It wasn't advertised at all, of course, and it was "abruptly" interrupted when people started to show up for a piece of the action.

As a consequence, and as of now, the top 10 wallets hold almost 1/3 of all coins (do your math yourself to corroborate the absurd distribution, going down the food chain).

There's total anonimity -i.e.: no transparency whatsoever- and lack of accountability. This means they (or even "he") can do anything they want at any time, no strings attached.

Assuming they have not done anything improper until now, even assuming they will not do anything improper in the future, in itself, the coin and their investors are being hurt but such outrageous distribution. You can witness yourself the massive dumping by just following the balances of the wallets.
That dumping not only affects the price of the coin, but also the volume, the reluctance of the exchanges (Mintpal) and the liquidity of the coin.

All of the above, if you are dealing with the best, more honest, nicest group of individuals that have ever existed on the face of this earth.

Now, if some or all of them (assuming there are more than one), decides to actually manipulate the price (you know, sell off to be able to buy double for half, rinse and repeat) you have your investment at the entire whim of just a few people who not only have and continue scamming to get your money -and getting it- , but could take most if not all of it with the easiest, simplest of strategies.

I know I haven't given you the answers that you want, because you are a believer, a fan boy as it were, but since you asked...

[barabbas]

Actually, your answer is totally ridiculous and argumentative.

1.- Minimal as it is, BTC is a global phenomenon on which several -and growing- real life business are based. It has staying power proven through years of all kinds of attacks and manipulations and a clear path as to what it is, it represents and who the face of it is (The Bitcoin Foundation, with names and addresses, physical ones, as well and TAX IDs attached to it... none of which applies to NXT). Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?

2.- You (who are you, by the way?) may have spoken to "some of these holders" or "Yoda" for all I care. It is argumentative and doesn't add any transparency to the conversation. Either put up or, kindly, shut up.

1. So, according to you, 4 years ago, you would have called Bitcoin a scam? If not, then come back in 4 years and we'll talk. (Btw, we have businesses starting up in NXT right now as we speak)

Additionally, hundreds of independent organisms and enterprises do control who is mining and how much are they mining. So your point comparing NXT to BTC is utterly ridiculous, ok?

Prove it. (In case you missed it, this example was to show how ridiculous your arguments were, you were asking me to prove something as equally ridiculous.)

2. It doesn't matter who I am, but I am one of those who are starting a business based on the NXT platform.

Who are you?

Pandaisftw

No, according to me 5 years ago Bitcoin was a new concept for a potentially revolutionary for of payment. And I would probably would not have thought much of it except for another anarchistic pipe dream. Now if I would have given it some deeper mind, I would have probably been a converted very quickly. But there was no money to be made in bitcoin. For years. So that, in and of itself, separates it completely from NXT whose main if not only purpose was, as clearly evidenced, to make a very few amount of people a lot of quick money. By design. Proven by facts and by it's "distribution". PROVEN.

2.- No, it really doesn't matter who you are. It is clear that it is another scammer whether your scheme is already posted or not.

Me? I just trade on these scams trying to avoid getting too burned and hoping to find Bitcoin version 2 -the evolution of Bitcoin, that will correct some or all of its obvious flaws. No matter much who I am, because I am not scamming people nor pretend to be an honest anonymous individual while taking other people's money.

Think of me as someone that will expose alt scams as he sees them. And run with it.

[nexern]

Why do you think it's a scam Barabbas?  just summarize for us.

-bm

he can't.

old story due to distribution but this story won't get truer by repeating past reality over and over.
this is old stuff and doesn't correlate to here and now. distribution is much better than most other
coins out there. this is a provable fact.

moreover, first you hear complains about the whales could manipulate the price or game nxt, then you
hear the same story other way around like the price can't rise because whales dumping, so what now?
better distribution or price rising without? sorry but you can't have both at the same time but since
you ask for this, it is an indicator for trolling.

it's simple, barabbas is exactly this kind of person bitching about prehistoric distribution, trying to
let it look actual but with a high probability he the first one to ask to close an IPO to get a bigger stake.

it's timewasting to deal with him, because he is not here to get facts.

[dzarmush]

Why do you think it's a scam Barabbas?  just summarize for us.

-bm

he can't.

old story due to distribution but this story won't get truer by repeating past reality over and over.
this is old stuff and doesn't correlate to here and now. distribution is much better than most other
coins out there. this is a provable fact.

moreover, first you hear complains about the whales could manipulate the price or game nxt, then you
hear the same story other way around like the price can't rise because whales dumping, so what now?
better distribution or price rising without? sorry but you can't have both at the same time but since
you ask for this, it is an indicator for trolling.

it's simple, barabbas is exactly this kind of person bitching about prehistoric distribution, trying to
let it look actual but with a high probability he the first one to ask to close an IPO to get a bigger stake.

it's timewasting to deal with him, because he is not here to get facts.

I don't even speak with trolls like him. It's just pointless.