Sia - Siafund Redemption Deadline: June 1st, 2015

[Daedelus]

Anon136 is probably the most trustworthy guy on the forum.

+1
Anon136 is well known for being the escrow for many IPOs, all without a hitch (on his end I mean, some of the IPOs have gone belly up and he returned the cash). He has built a good reputation he is leveraging to launch his Silver Bullion Gateway on the AE.

[Anotheranonlol]

Why did you decide go via the NXT AE?, that method enriches/favors NXT holders and means putting in additional steps to buy the shares for investors who aren't holding NXT. and additional steps for the issuer to cashout to BTC. It's a tedious process to sell often via BTER and means taking haircuts either side if the liquidity is not there . Basically a lose/lose unless you as issuer are planning on accumulating NXT or a buyer already rich in NXT

I want to invest in SIA but don't want to hold NXT because the distribution method is one of the most disproportionately skewed to few individuals in recent memory (early NXT IPO backers, some presumably who used socks to register multiple stakes have already profitted enough), I would rather not support that in any way. You could of made a BTC denominated offering directly using CounterParty (without requirement for any XCP token) and open ownership of siastock to whole crypto community, without having to sell the shares in background via PM's and undertake complicated manual book-keeping to ensure you don't oversell shares and so forth.. Addtionally because that method is on-top of bitcoin blockchain it will be transparent and auditable for anyone to look at so there will be no cries of fraud like with maidsafe IPO.. An example of an IPO issuance on counterparty is below http://blockscan.com/assetInfo.aspx?q=ROCKMINER

[gs02xzz]

Why did you decide go via the NXT AE?, that method enriches/favors NXT holders and means putting in additional steps to buy the shares for investors who aren't holding NXT. and additional steps for the issuer to cashout to BTC. It's a tedious process to sell often via BTER and means taking haircuts either side if the liquidity is not there . Basically a lose/lose unless you as issuer are planning on accumulating NXT or a buyer already rich in NXT

You can buy it with BTC -see the OP's update here post#89- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=591283.80

If you do not have an Nxt account, create a public key and sign that I am to hold onto your sianotes for you. When it is time for you to claim your sianotes, you'll need to sign a statement telling me where to send the sianotes. I don't want to get an email from a scammer who is claiming to be you, and then send your sianotes to the wrong place. (again, you only need a public key if I'm holding your sianotes until a later date)

[Daedelus]

Why did you decide go via the NXT AE?, that method enriches/favors NXT holders and means putting in additional steps to buy the shares for investors who aren't holding NXT. and additional steps for the issuer to cashout to BTC. It's a tedious process to sell often via BTER and means taking haircuts either side if the liquidity is not there . Basically a lose/lose unless you as issuer are planning on accumulating NXT or a buyer already rich in NXT

I want to invest in SIA but don't want to hold NXT because the distribution method is one of the most disproportionately skewed to few individuals in recent memory (early NXT IPO backers, some presumably who used socks to register multiple stakes have already profitted enough), I would rather not support that in any way. You could of made a BTC denominated offering directly using CounterParty (without requirement for any XCP token) and open ownership of siastock to whole crypto community, without having to sell the shares in background via PM's and undertake complicated manual book-keeping to ensure you don't oversell shares and so forth.. Addtionally because that method is on-top of bitcoin blockchain it will be transparent and auditable for anyone to look at so there will be no cries of fraud like with maidsafe IPO.. An example of an IPO issuance on counterparty is below http://blockscan.com/assetInfo.aspx?q=ROCKMINER

You'll find that Nxt today has a better distribution than BTC so it is odd that you promote BTC over Nxt (I wasn't an early investor).

[Anotheranonlol]

Why did you decide go via the NXT AE?, that method enriches/favors NXT holders and means putting in additional steps to buy the shares for investors who aren't holding NXT. and additional steps for the issuer to cashout to BTC. It's a tedious process to sell often via BTER and means taking haircuts either side if the liquidity is not there . Basically a lose/lose unless you as issuer are planning on accumulating NXT or a buyer already rich in NXT

I want to invest in SIA but don't want to hold NXT because the distribution method is one of the most disproportionately skewed to few individuals in recent memory (early NXT IPO backers, some presumably who used socks to register multiple stakes have already profitted enough), I would rather not support that in any way. You could of made a BTC denominated offering directly using CounterParty (without requirement for any XCP token) and open ownership of siastock to whole crypto community, without having to sell the shares in background via PM's and undertake complicated manual book-keeping to ensure you don't oversell shares and so forth.. Addtionally because that method is on-top of bitcoin blockchain it will be transparent and auditable for anyone to look at so there will be no cries of fraud like with maidsafe IPO.. An example of an IPO issuance on counterparty is below http://blockscan.com/assetInfo.aspx?q=ROCKMINER

You'll find that Nxt today has a better distribution than BTC so it is odd that you promote BTC over Nxt (I wasn't an early investor).

NXT were brought for total of 21 btc between ~73 stakeholders
current valuation~ 71,450 BTC (very short time later)

340238% profit for lucky few. And how many used alt-accounts to register multiple stakes?

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=34

not better distribution by any stretch of the imagination as far as I can see.

As far as argument against bitcoin distribution goes. (Excluding satoshis mined stash, which for all we know will be distributed evenly in an act of charity) A huge amount of early coins from 2009- 2011 will never be touched again because the private keys are completely destroyed. Bitcoin was a new paradigm. 1-cpu one vote and anyone could join in

[Nerissa Betasolo2c]

SIAcoin is doing well, with so many great things to come.

[Daedelus]

Why did you decide go via the NXT AE?, that method enriches/favors NXT holders and means putting in additional steps to buy the shares for investors who aren't holding NXT. and additional steps for the issuer to cashout to BTC. It's a tedious process to sell often via BTER and means taking haircuts either side if the liquidity is not there . Basically a lose/lose unless you as issuer are planning on accumulating NXT or a buyer already rich in NXT

I want to invest in SIA but don't want to hold NXT because the distribution method is one of the most disproportionately skewed to few individuals in recent memory (early NXT IPO backers, some presumably who used socks to register multiple stakes have already profitted enough), I would rather not support that in any way. You could of made a BTC denominated offering directly using CounterParty (without requirement for any XCP token) and open ownership of siastock to whole crypto community, without having to sell the shares in background via PM's and undertake complicated manual book-keeping to ensure you don't oversell shares and so forth.. Addtionally because that method is on-top of bitcoin blockchain it will be transparent and auditable for anyone to look at so there will be no cries of fraud like with maidsafe IPO.. An example of an IPO issuance on counterparty is below http://blockscan.com/assetInfo.aspx?q=ROCKMINER

You'll find that Nxt today has a better distribution than BTC so it is odd that you promote BTC over Nxt (I wasn't an early investor).

NXT were brought for total of 21 btc between ~73 stakeholders
current valuation~ 71,450 BTC (very short time later)

340238% profit for lucky few. And how many used alt-accounts to register multiple stakes?

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=34

not better distribution by any stretch of the imagination as far as I can see.

As far as argument against bitcoin distribution goes. (Excluding satoshis mined stash, which for all we know will be distributed evenly in an act of charity) A huge amount of early coins from 2009- 2011 will never be touched again because the private keys are completely destroyed. Bitcoin was a new paradigm. 1-cpu one vote and anyone could join in

My comments were about current distribution, from your comments you still believe Nxt is held by 73 stakeholders?

[Vega]

NXT were brought for total of 21 btc between ~73 stakeholders
...

You just copied one of your previous posts from an other topic. Any chance that you read a reply by toknormal on the same page? Because it was a very good reply worthy of consideration.

[Daedelus]

NXT were brought for total of 21 btc between ~73 stakeholders
...

You just copied one of your previous posts from an other topic. Any chance that you read a reply by toknormal on the same page? Because it was a very good reply worthy of consideration.

It was also 21 BTC between over a hundred people but some never came forward for their stake. Maybe no one else came forward in the 2 month period they had a chance as they thought it might be vapourware. We'll never know but I am more interested in the distribution today.

(sorry to hijack your thread  )

[Anotheranonlol]

NXT were brought for total of 21 btc between ~73 stakeholders
...

You just copied one of your previous posts from an other topic. Any chance that you read a reply by toknormal on the same page? Because it was a very good reply worthy of consideration.

it's a bit offtopic but will address it

his reply was:

the big flaw in this whole argument about "distribution" is that it's based more on a toy-throwing-out-of-pram premise than any dispassionate appraisal of the "distribution model".

For example. The argument goes that NxT stakeholders stand to make an X0000000 % gain from their investment and that that's somehow "excessive". Whereas if someone buying a currency that had, say 5000 buy-ins and also made an X0000000 % gain - that would be alright.

The fact is that there isn't anywhere near enough market liquidity in any of these currencies for such gains ever to be realised at the amounts of holdings the original stakeholders had. Thats why it doesn't matter if it's 76 or 7600 original holders - it's like melting 2 big blocks of ice or 20 little ones in a jug of water. It dilutes just the same.

If the envisaged potential market for these cryptos is, say 50 million people, then an initial "distribution" of 5000 doesn't look too great either. That's 0.01% of the market getting the initial stake. Thats the real hypocrisy behind these empty criticisms.

Yes, the premise is somewhat 'toy throwing out of pram' because who wouldn't kick themselves at a chance to realise a gain of X0000000 %..?
But more to the point it's a valid concern despite any predujice or hissy fits about missing the boat. How can you  support a coin which has enriched such a small group of people in such a disproportionate way when we can create NXT clones giving all the benefits of nxt without the flawed distribution.

Pyramid of 21 initial holders (and god knows how many out of those 21 were single guys owning sock puppets to register multiple stakes) is not a stable foundation for a future currency in any shape or form..it's just absolutely incomprehensible to the point where it seems lunacy it's already survived this long. NXT is a great concept, but the ownership of the total supply was given to such a tiny group of people and from that point forward it's just a trickle down, many I'm sure being self-interested and greedy have manipulated to the best of their abilities distributing their own holdings between multiple accounts and only giving nxt away when it suits them and would boost the value of their pile. the argument is that they'll never realise their gains but they can slowly dump onto markets tiny portions of their holdings and now with things like siastock they can diversify some of their 'unrealisable' nxt ownership into  siastock. They're hardly bagholders and could have made considerable amounts of money already. Good for them but I wouldn't support it

[msin]

NXT were brought for total of 21 btc between ~73 stakeholders
current valuation~ 71,450 BTC (very short time later)

340238% profit for lucky few. And how many used alt-accounts to register multiple stakes?

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=34

not better distribution by any stretch of the imagination as far as I can see.

As far as argument against bitcoin distribution goes. (Excluding satoshis mined stash, which for all we know will be distributed evenly in an act of charity) A huge amount of early coins from 2009- 2011 will never be touched again because the private keys are completely destroyed. Bitcoin was a new paradigm. 1-cpu one vote and anyone could join in

So why didn't you invest?  Was it because you knew it would have poor distribution?  The creator didn't get rich off of Nxt, and it was an open IPO for two months (far longer than any IPO's held now), so stop whining about distribution, it's not the creator's fault that only 73 people decided to invest.  It's such a tired argument.  What was he supposed to do, he wanted to launch the coin.  I bought Nxt on the open market, when it was 1Mil for 1BTC, because I saw potential.  Nxt has a great community of devs that get things done, and aren't chronic whiners.  I could sit here and stomp my feet about satoshi holding 1.5Mil BTC or that MT Gox blatantly ripped off everyone, but I don't because it's pointless.  Anyway, stop posting here and go mine some BTC.  This should be dedicated to Sia, not Nxt.

[Anotheranonlol]

NXT were brought for total of 21 btc between ~73 stakeholders
current valuation~ 71,450 BTC (very short time later)

340238% profit for lucky few. And how many used alt-accounts to register multiple stakes?

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=34

not better distribution by any stretch of the imagination as far as I can see.

As far as argument against bitcoin distribution goes. (Excluding satoshis mined stash, which for all we know will be distributed evenly in an act of charity) A huge amount of early coins from 2009- 2011 will never be touched again because the private keys are completely destroyed. Bitcoin was a new paradigm. 1-cpu one vote and anyone could join in

So why didn't you invest?  Was it because you knew it would have poor distribution?  The creator didn't get rich off of Nxt, and it was an open IPO for two months (far longer than any IPO's held now), so stop whining about distribution, it's not the creator's fault that only 73 people decided to invest.  It's such a tired argument.  What was he supposed to do, he wanted to launch the coin.  I bought Nxt on the open market, when it was 1Mil for 1BTC, because I saw potential.  Nxt has a great community of devs that get things done, and aren't chronic whiners.  I could sit here and stomp my feet about satoshi holding 1.5Mil BTC or that MT Gox blatantly ripped off everyone, but I don't because it's pointless.  Anyway, stop posting here and go mine some BTC.  This should be dedicated to Sia, not Nxt.

I didn't invest because frankly I didn't see the thread prior to IPO closure. People keep saying it's a tired argument. It can never be a tired argument because it's like the burj khalifa of arguments. it overshadows absolutely anything else. The creator could of easily register stakes without you knowing about it. You can not build a supposed '2.0 crypto-currency' upon a POS distribution between only 21 people. It can't work it's nonsensical to even propose a currency with such an unfair distribution has a serious chance of success...it's 100x worse than what we have with fiat with fat cat oligarchs controlling huge amounts of the worlds wealth. while poor scrape for few dollars daily.. with nxt it's out of the frying pan into a blazing inferno., and this is the reason community will jump onto coins such as NEM over NXT.

[msin]

NXT were brought for total of 21 btc between ~73 stakeholders
current valuation~ 71,450 BTC (very short time later)

340238% profit for lucky few. And how many used alt-accounts to register multiple stakes?

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=34

not better distribution by any stretch of the imagination as far as I can see.

As far as argument against bitcoin distribution goes. (Excluding satoshis mined stash, which for all we know will be distributed evenly in an act of charity) A huge amount of early coins from 2009- 2011 will never be touched again because the private keys are completely destroyed. Bitcoin was a new paradigm. 1-cpu one vote and anyone could join in

So why didn't you invest?  Was it because you knew it would have poor distribution?  The creator didn't get rich off of Nxt, and it was an open IPO for two months (far longer than any IPO's held now), so stop whining about distribution, it's not the creator's fault that only 73 people decided to invest.  It's such a tired argument.  What was he supposed to do, he wanted to launch the coin.  I bought Nxt on the open market, when it was 1Mil for 1BTC, because I saw potential.  Nxt has a great community of devs that get things done, and aren't chronic whiners.  I could sit here and stomp my feet about satoshi holding 1.5Mil BTC or that MT Gox blatantly ripped off everyone, but I don't because it's pointless.  Anyway, stop posting here and go mine some BTC.  This should be dedicated to Sia, not Nxt.

I didn't invest because frankly I didn't see the thread prior to IPO closure. People keep saying it's a tired argument. It can never be a tired argument because it's like the burj khalifa of arguments. it overshadows absolutely anything else. The creator could of easily register stakes without you knowing about it. You can not build a supposed '2.0 crypto-currency' upon a POS distribution between only 21 people. It can't work it's nonsensical to even propose a currency with such an unfair distribution has a serious chance of success...it's 100x worse than what we have with fiat with fat cat oligarchs controlling huge amounts of the worlds wealth. while poor scrape for few dollars daily.. with nxt it's out of the frying pan into a blazing inferno., and this is the reason community will jump onto coins such as NEM over NXT.

He could have done a # of things, so what. Speculation is just that.  I think you have your #'s mixed up.  73 stakeholders, 21 BTC.  Not 21 people.  I understand your concern, I really do, but I bought after Nxt was launched at a valuation that was more than fair, and it even went back down after the initial spike, and stakeholders were dumping millions of Nxt for at least a month.  All these IPO's disguise their profit as "distribution".   Anyway, no one is changing your mind, so why argue about it, your time would be better spent being productive.  And you can buy Sia without being forced to hold Nxt. 

[voldemort628]

guys, lets not hijack this thread of the Sia project
lets move the discussion to a move relevant topic/tread .

cheers

[Taek]

guys, lets not hijack this thread of the Sia project
lets move the discussion to a move relevant topic/tread .

cheers

Made a new topic. Put a response there. TL;DR: I am happy with using Nxt, and I don't think it's current skewed distribution is anything to worry about.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=609322

[Blocktree]

Why did you decide go via the NXT AE?, that method enriches/favors NXT holders and means putting in additional steps to buy the shares for investors who aren't holding NXT. and additional steps for the issuer to cashout to BTC. It's a tedious process to sell often via BTER and means taking haircuts either side if the liquidity is not there . Basically a lose/lose unless you as issuer are planning on accumulating NXT or a buyer already rich in NXT

I want to invest in SIA but don't want to hold NXT because the distribution method is one of the most disproportionately skewed to few individuals in recent memory (early NXT IPO backers, some presumably who used socks to register multiple stakes have already profitted enough), I would rather not support that in any way. You could of made a BTC denominated offering directly using CounterParty (without requirement for any XCP token) and open ownership of siastock to whole crypto community, without having to sell the shares in background via PM's and undertake complicated manual book-keeping to ensure you don't oversell shares and so forth.. Addtionally because that method is on-top of bitcoin blockchain it will be transparent and auditable for anyone to look at so there will be no cries of fraud like with maidsafe IPO.. An example of an IPO issuance on counterparty is below http://blockscan.com/assetInfo.aspx?q=ROCKMINER

You'll find that Nxt today has a better distribution than BTC so it is odd that you promote BTC over Nxt (I wasn't an early investor).

NXT were brought for total of 21 btc between ~73 stakeholders
current valuation~ 71,450 BTC (very short time later)

340238% profit for lucky few. And how many used alt-accounts to register multiple stakes?

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=34

not better distribution by any stretch of the imagination as far as I can see.

As far as argument against bitcoin distribution goes. (Excluding satoshis mined stash, which for all we know will be distributed evenly in an act of charity) A huge amount of early coins from 2009- 2011 will never be touched again because the private keys are completely destroyed. Bitcoin was a new paradigm. 1-cpu one vote and anyone could join in

THERE WILL BE Another unfair IPO of Nxt .
All participants are Nxt big stake holders
Nxt is born for unfairness.

[Taek]

Update on the IPO.

As of right now, There are 147 sianotes that are still for sale. 49 of these are currently on the AE at 3100 each.

[PondSea]

Just sent a email to David and Luke about investing in the IPO at the original rate since i PMed them about investing using BTC before the rate change.

[Daedelus]

Hi,

Can you post the Reed Solomon version of the Nxt address used to issue your asset on the AE? (The version that looks like NXT-sdfcdD-2Dwwe- etc etc )

This is now default in the NRS v1.1.3.

Could you post it here for me to pick up later >>> https://nxtforum.org/index.php?action=pm;f=inbox;sort=date;start=0

Thanks 

[Eadeqa]

I didn't invest because frankly I didn't see the thread prior to IPO closure.

How is this Nxt fault if you didn't see the IPO that was open to everyone for 2 months? As for Nem, even if we assume there are no sock puppets and it really has 3000 stakeholders, the world population is 7 billion, so that is very "unfair" distribution too.  You can never have "fair distribution". BTC has even worse distribution with just 1 person holding 10%.  What matters is future adoption and use by wider community, merchants and general public.