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Author Topic: Dark Wallet: Let There Be Dark!  (Read 5106 times)
cbeast
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May 08, 2014, 11:12:21 PM
 #41

Thank you genjix, for explaining how it works. It does look to be promising and a good use of technology. It's refreshing to see something developed that shows some inspiration and isn't a scam. If it wasn't for all the raging-against-the-machine-rhetoric folks would take the practical aspects of this more seriously.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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Be very wary of relying on JavaScript for security on sites such as blockchain.info and brainwallet.org. The site can change the JavaScript at any time unless you take unusual precautions, and browsers are not generally known for their airtight security.
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May 09, 2014, 03:05:00 AM
 #42

Dark Wallet coinjoin goes through a server, but the server cannot see any details of your transaction nor can they steal your coins. All details are encrypted for the counterparty, and all signing happens in the client.

The only weakness here is that a server gets taken down stopping the service in which case you switch to another service. Even if the NSA controlled the server, they wouldn't be able to steal your coins or observe your transaction at all.

Lastly the server is sharing messages with other servers (we are improving this too), so it isn't really centralised. It is federated kind of like how different email providers inter-operate with each other. The decentralised aspect will only improve over time as we develop standards and deploy technology.


Are you guys running a server?

I'm not a laywer, but:

If that is the case, that server could be shut down and Mr. Wilson and cohorts arrested for "running a service" that "facilitates" or supports illegal activity.  Its clear that DarkWallet will be attractive to people who are doing things that are considered 'illegal'.

If I'm not mistaken, Liberty Reserve and eGold were shut down for the same reason.  Liberty Reserve's founder is apparently facing a long prison sentence (the charges against him include his boastings about the service's illegal utility).

The developers of Bitcoin, and BitTorrent for that matter, don't face legal liability because they just write the software.  They don't actually operate anything.

I like DarkWallet, but hopefully the 'decentralised aspect' will improve very soon.  The us is obviously going to do some very intensive traffic analysis on whatever server(s) you're operating.

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May 09, 2014, 03:27:22 AM
 #43

Dark Wallet coinjoin goes through a server, but the server cannot see any details of your transaction nor can they steal your coins. All details are encrypted for the counterparty, and all signing happens in the client.

The only weakness here is that a server gets taken down stopping the service in which case you switch to another service. Even if the NSA controlled the server, they wouldn't be able to steal your coins or observe your transaction at all.

Lastly the server is sharing messages with other servers (we are improving this too), so it isn't really centralised. It is federated kind of like how different email providers inter-operate with each other. The decentralised aspect will only improve over time as we develop standards and deploy technology.


Are you guys running a server?

I'm not a laywer, but:

If that is the case, that server could be shut down and Mr. Wilson and cohorts arrested for "running a service" that "facilitates" or supports illegal activity.  Its clear that DarkWallet will be attractive to people who are doing things that are considered 'illegal'.

If I'm not mistaken, Liberty Reserve and eGold were shut down for the same reason.  Liberty Reserve's founder is apparently facing a long prison sentence (the charges against him include his boastings about the service's illegal utility).

The developers of Bitcoin, and BitTorrent for that matter, don't face legal liability because they just write the software.  They don't actually operate anything.

I like DarkWallet, but hopefully the 'decentralised aspect' will improve very soon.  The us is obviously going to do some very intensive traffic analysis on whatever server(s) you're operating.


It's all encrypted. Try proving anything.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 09, 2014, 03:44:16 AM
 #44

Dark Wallet coinjoin goes through a server, but the server cannot see any details of your transaction nor can they steal your coins. All details are encrypted for the counterparty, and all signing happens in the client.

The only weakness here is that a server gets taken down stopping the service in which case you switch to another service. Even if the NSA controlled the server, they wouldn't be able to steal your coins or observe your transaction at all.

Lastly the server is sharing messages with other servers (we are improving this too), so it isn't really centralised. It is federated kind of like how different email providers inter-operate with each other. The decentralised aspect will only improve over time as we develop standards and deploy technology.


Are you guys running a server?

I'm not a laywer, but:

If that is the case, that server could be shut down and Mr. Wilson and cohorts arrested for "running a service" that "facilitates" or supports illegal activity.  Its clear that DarkWallet will be attractive to people who are doing things that are considered 'illegal'.

If I'm not mistaken, Liberty Reserve and eGold were shut down for the same reason.  Liberty Reserve's founder is apparently facing a long prison sentence (the charges against him include his boastings about the service's illegal utility).

The developers of Bitcoin, and BitTorrent for that matter, don't face legal liability because they just write the software.  They don't actually operate anything.

I like DarkWallet, but hopefully the 'decentralised aspect' will improve very soon.  The us is obviously going to do some very intensive traffic analysis on whatever server(s) you're operating.


It's all encrypted. Try proving anything.


They target the users machines with specially designed malware (assuming the server is as secure as believed).  Once they decide the server is facilitating illegal activity, they will move in.

Best to be paranoid.


cbeast
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May 09, 2014, 03:50:23 AM
 #45

Dark Wallet coinjoin goes through a server, but the server cannot see any details of your transaction nor can they steal your coins. All details are encrypted for the counterparty, and all signing happens in the client.

The only weakness here is that a server gets taken down stopping the service in which case you switch to another service. Even if the NSA controlled the server, they wouldn't be able to steal your coins or observe your transaction at all.

Lastly the server is sharing messages with other servers (we are improving this too), so it isn't really centralised. It is federated kind of like how different email providers inter-operate with each other. The decentralised aspect will only improve over time as we develop standards and deploy technology.


Are you guys running a server?

I'm not a laywer, but:

If that is the case, that server could be shut down and Mr. Wilson and cohorts arrested for "running a service" that "facilitates" or supports illegal activity.  Its clear that DarkWallet will be attractive to people who are doing things that are considered 'illegal'.

If I'm not mistaken, Liberty Reserve and eGold were shut down for the same reason.  Liberty Reserve's founder is apparently facing a long prison sentence (the charges against him include his boastings about the service's illegal utility).

The developers of Bitcoin, and BitTorrent for that matter, don't face legal liability because they just write the software.  They don't actually operate anything.

I like DarkWallet, but hopefully the 'decentralised aspect' will improve very soon.  The us is obviously going to do some very intensive traffic analysis on whatever server(s) you're operating.


It's all encrypted. Try proving anything.


They target the users machines with specially designed malware (assuming the server is as secure as believed).  Once they decide the server is facilitating illegal activity, they will move in.

Best to be paranoid.



If I understand how this works properly, the server only matches encrypted keys. It doesn't do anything outside the blockchain. So if the users were not using TOR, then they might be able to trace the IPs. I suspect that these servers will become virtual and anonymous eventually. I don't like it, but I am open-minded enough to want to see what happens with the experiment.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 09, 2014, 04:18:36 AM
 #46

Dark Wallet coinjoin goes through a server, but the server cannot see any details of your transaction nor can they steal your coins. All details are encrypted for the counterparty, and all signing happens in the client.

The only weakness here is that a server gets taken down stopping the service in which case you switch to another service. Even if the NSA controlled the server, they wouldn't be able to steal your coins or observe your transaction at all.

Lastly the server is sharing messages with other servers (we are improving this too), so it isn't really centralised. It is federated kind of like how different email providers inter-operate with each other. The decentralised aspect will only improve over time as we develop standards and deploy technology.


Are you guys running a server?

I'm not a laywer, but:

If that is the case, that server could be shut down and Mr. Wilson and cohorts arrested for "running a service" that "facilitates" or supports illegal activity.  Its clear that DarkWallet will be attractive to people who are doing things that are considered 'illegal'.

If I'm not mistaken, Liberty Reserve and eGold were shut down for the same reason.  Liberty Reserve's founder is apparently facing a long prison sentence (the charges against him include his boastings about the service's illegal utility).

The developers of Bitcoin, and BitTorrent for that matter, don't face legal liability because they just write the software.  They don't actually operate anything.

I like DarkWallet, but hopefully the 'decentralised aspect' will improve very soon.  The us is obviously going to do some very intensive traffic analysis on whatever server(s) you're operating.


It's all encrypted. Try proving anything.


They target the users machines with specially designed malware (assuming the server is as secure as believed).  Once they decide the server is facilitating illegal activity, they will move in.

Best to be paranoid.



If I understand how this works properly, the server only matches encrypted keys. It doesn't do anything outside the blockchain. So if the users were not using TOR, then they might be able to trace the IPs. I suspect that these servers will become virtual and anonymous eventually. I don't like it, but I am open-minded enough to want to see what happens with the experiment.


I like the concept of DarkWallet, but it needs to use true P2P to negotiate the mixing.  I was just pointing out that by running a server, the developers may be exposing themselves to potential criminal liability.  If all they do is release software, they're safe (at least this seems to be the current understanding of the law).

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May 09, 2014, 04:25:21 AM
 #47

So does Dark Wallet dispose the need for other anonymous coins such as DarkCoin or ByteCoin?
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May 09, 2014, 04:33:28 AM
 #48

So does Dark Wallet dispose the need for other anonymous coins such as DarkCoin or ByteCoin?
Yes.

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May 15, 2014, 01:01:10 PM
 #49

Featuring an experimental identity system, and lots of improvements both on the frontend (browser plugin) and backend (gateway, obelisk and libbitcoin), we present Alpha 3:

https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha3 <-- Detailed release notes
https://github.com/darkwallet/darkwallet/releases/tag/0.3.0
https://github.com/darkwallet/darkwallet/archive/0.3.0.zip


This is a major milestone since we're introducing our new identity system where now you can keep long term contacts and find them later in the crypto goo that is the stratum for our conversations, subject to change but valid for our current goals. Also big improvements in parsing stealth since that's now going to a background thread, and the gateway got some bug fixed that was making things very slow  should now be snappy also using our block explorer will be a new experience Smiley.

Best Regards!!
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May 15, 2014, 03:08:06 PM
 #50

Featuring an experimental identity system, and lots of improvements both on the frontend (browser plugin) and backend (gateway, obelisk and libbitcoin), we present Alpha 3:

https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha3 <-- Detailed release notes
https://github.com/darkwallet/darkwallet/releases/tag/0.3.0
https://github.com/darkwallet/darkwallet/archive/0.3.0.zip


This is a major milestone since we're introducing our new identity system where now you can keep long term contacts and find them later in the crypto goo that is the stratum for our conversations, subject to change but valid for our current goals. Also big improvements in parsing stealth since that's now going to a background thread, and the gateway got some bug fixed that was making things very slow  should now be snappy also using our block explorer will be a new experience Smiley.

Best Regards!!

I noticed in another thread that there was a newer version, so I will quote the post here:

Featuring an experimental identity system, and lots of improvements both on the frontend (browser plugin) and backend (gateway, obelisk and libbitcoin), we present Alpha 3:

https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha3 <-- Detailed release notes
https://github.com/darkwallet/darkwallet/releases/tag/0.3.1
https://github.com/darkwallet/darkwallet/archive/0.3.1.zip



This is a major milestone since we're introducing our new identity system where now you can keep long term contacts and find them later in the crypto goo that is the stratum for our conversations, subject to change but valid for our current goals. Also big improvements in parsing stealth since that's now going to a background thread, and the gateway got some bug fixed that was making things very slow  should now be snappy also using our block explorer will be a new experience Smiley.

Best Regards!!

Edit: Made a quick update release 3.1 fixing a small but annoying issue with identity pairing.

Edit 2: Still Alpha, don't trust with real bitcoins! You can try it on testnet.

Buy a TREZOR! Premier BTC hardware wallet. If you're reading this, you should probably buy one if you don't already have one. You'll thank me later.
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May 15, 2014, 03:23:17 PM
 #51

I just couldnt trust this, As somebody else has already said. Its another 3rd party site.
And people inevitably make mistakes, Not me though of course  Roll Eyes
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May 15, 2014, 04:35:15 PM
 #52

As somebody else has already said. Its another 3rd party site.

Where are people getting this misinfo?

https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/FAQ
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May 15, 2014, 05:06:17 PM
 #53

I just couldnt trust this, As somebody else has already said. Its another 3rd party site.
And people inevitably make mistakes, Not me though of course  Roll Eyes

Dark Wallet is NOT a 3rd party site, it is a wallet that you install on your computer.
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May 15, 2014, 11:52:06 PM
 #54

Anonymous bitcoin wallets are 99.99% scams the only for sure safe wallet is blockchain.

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May 16, 2014, 04:44:31 AM
 #55

Anonymous bitcoin wallets are 99.99% scams the only for sure safe wallet is blockchain.

You do well to be careful but DarkWallet's model is more secure than blockchain.info (nothing bad to say about them).

1. DarkWallet is a browser plugin that updates respecting whatever policy you want on your comp, blockchain.info is a webpage that serves you scripts
2. With darkwallet you hold the keys in a way that you can use the wallet in offline mode, or not hold keys using multisig or in the future readonly.

Again, don't want to compare with blockchain.info, they do a great service and we're still alpha, but please open your mind and read the docs we paste there is a lot of information:

https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha
https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha2
https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/DarkWallet/Alpha3

The first one is a general detailed description of initial alpha status, the other 2 documents provide very rich details about what we have been working on for the last 2 weeks.

So, our model is, it's not like we won't run with your coins, it's like we can't run with your coins since we don't hold *any* user data, keys or nothing at all. Also we can't just make a phantom update like say other webwallets could do and then deny it, all our changes are very publicly documented in git (https://github.com/darkwallet/darkwallet) and our release procedure is strict where we sign our code releases (I do myself).

cheers!
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May 16, 2014, 08:32:17 AM
 #56

Anonymous bitcoin wallets are 99.99% scams the only for sure safe wallet is blockchain.

Dark Wallet is not a web wallet, it is a wallet that you hold on your pc (like Electrum), so I can't see how it can be less safe than blockchain.

BTW I hope the stable release comes soon! Smiley
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May 16, 2014, 09:16:52 AM
 #57

Keep up the great work devs!

Right now I would put highest priority on getting Obelisk servers out there.  All traffic currently going through wss://gateway.unsystem.net  <---   (glad I'm not the one running this box) 
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May 16, 2014, 11:26:11 AM
 #58

So does Dark Wallet dispose the need for other anonymous coins such as DarkCoin or ByteCoin?

I'd like to know more about this, how does the anonymity, security, robustness of Dark wallet etc compare to these ?  Which method is best?

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May 16, 2014, 12:15:26 PM
 #59

Anonymous bitcoin wallets are 99.99% scams the only for sure safe wallet is blockchain.

Thanks for this useful and carefully considered piece of advice which is obviously based upon your in-depth knowledge and research of Dark Wallet and the people associated with the project.

 

 

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May 16, 2014, 01:12:36 PM
 #60

If it wasn't for all the raging-against-the-machine-rhetoric folks would take the practical aspects of this more seriously.
When we see the reality that the machine is a dystopia, as tragic as any work of fiction, why should we not rage against it?




Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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