A large sum of money, where would you keep it?

[loadsofmoney]

NXT could be secure enough in several months, but considering the protocol, whole network infrastructure and community support, it most likely won't come close to Electrum, or perhaps Armory, in terms of security and possibilities/options/features.

Online storage has wider attack surface as I found out on Reddit Bitcoin while reading about DarkWallet browser plugin, and Blockchain.info online wallet and browser plugin.

I guess I might have to diversify across platforms as well as actual categories of digital wealth. While I would love everything to be simple I guess I got to spread the risk in these 'pioneering times'.


Ok I will give an example of how i'm thinking...so far.


25% BTC spread over a bunch of wallets maybe some cold storage.

40% Fiats USD, YUAN, Rouble, etc They would give my portfolio stability of sorts but I would want to with the click of a mouse be able to convert to Bitcoin etc if a currency collapse or just opportunities arose. (My thought was Ripple, Crptsy when they have USD possible crazy though, possibly the other decentralized trading coins on the horizon, NXT, EXocoin, Qora which all promise to have colored coins etc.

35% Would love to have some digital commodities, even digital properties, again to make some attempt at diversification and stability. I understand this could be possible with NXT and other coins I mentioned, soonish.

Otherwise I'm open to advice...


Is there anywhere I can anonymously bounce/trade between precious metals and Bitcoin like Goldmoney etc?

[PilotofBTC]

Another option is an online pay service. You could put the money into Google Wallet... that would sort of make the cash digital. Not sure if there is a max wallet size. Not sure what countries they support.

But, if you don't trust banks (not sure why) then I'm not sure why you would trust google or some other online pay service.

[loadsofmoney]

Another option is an online pay service. You could put the money into Google Wallet... that would sort of make the cash digital. Not sure if there is a max wallet size. Not sure what countries they support.

But, if you don't trust banks (not sure why) then I'm not sure why you would trust google or some other online pay service.

Yeah I do trust banks. I trust them to report any money to the Taxman, use my money in a fractional reserve system to skim money with the help of the FED and central banks off the masses and generally be unstable in the coming economic collapse.

Google! why would I trust them with my privacy? Don't you follow the news? Damn it! Do you even know why Bitcoin was created?

[PilotofBTC]

Yeah I do trust banks. I trust them to report any money to the Taxman,

I thought you said this thread wasn't about tax evasion. I wish you luck sir. Bye.

[Quora]

Bitcoin's colored coins and similar developments are most secure and quickly progressing but I haven't researched much more about it so far.

I suggest you ask Reddit Bitcoin.

[Okele]

Here's a question:

With the IRS deeming that bitcoin would be considered property(?) wouldn't the value of a bitcoin be directly tied to the date that IRS deemed it so, and not the date it was actually acquired?

For instance, say the OP mined and acquired his Bitcoin when it first came out and it's value was really 0, and then it started moving etc. He would only be on the hook for the value of his bitcoin on the date the ruling was made going forward correct? As I recall the day the ruling was made, Bitcoin was 550+, I can't remember but it seems to me that the values cannot be grandfathered. Maybe Im wrong, but if my assumption is correct if he sold them all now, he would be able to file a capital gains loss on the value of the bitcoin from the date the ruling was made to todays value.

Is that wrong?

[greatway]

Just keep your cryptos how you are keeping now.  It hasn't been hacked yet so its safe.  Just do proper backups etc.

[lucasjkr]

I envy your problems...

The tax man is gonna be an issue, I would honestly say that you save yourself a potentially HUGE headache if you simply suck it up and pay them off like everyone else does. They will discover your cash at somepoint, if you deposit it into a bank account. But, the tax hit won't be as bad as it could be - that the fact that the IRS is treating bitcoins like an investment asset rather than as a currency - that means that most of the coins you sell qualify to be taxed as long term capital gains, which is pretty much the most advantageous way to be taxed.

So, lets say you have $425,000 and that your tax basis in all these coins is $0.00. You say you want to cash out 60% of your coinage. You'll end up with

$170,000 in Bitcoin
$255,000 in cash

I don't know what your other income is, so rather than speculate, I'll just assume you have no other income. You have $255,000 in LT gains. $255,000 income puts you in the 33% tax bracket (don't worry, you're not paying 33% tax), which means that your long term capital gains are taxed at the rate of 15%, so your tax liability will be around $38,250, leaving you with $216,750 at the end of the day.

What yo do with it from there is anybody's guess.... IRA? Max out your contribition to your 401K (if you have one)? Ordinary investments? Cash? Purchase a home or condo? And so forth.

Point is, yeah, the tax hit is a hit. But you're being taxed at the lowest possible rate there is for it. 15%.

If you earned that money from your job, you'd be looking to pay around $67,000 in federal income tax, state income tax (i didn't mention that above, because i have no idea what state you're in), not to mention social security and medicare (another 7-8% or so, averaging things out since you only pay SS tax on the first 117000 you earn.)  

[lucasjkr]

As for trying to cash out this amount, keep it safe AND keep it out of the knowledge of the IRS, you'd have a lot of challenges and steep, steep penalties when you get caught,

For instance, I assume that "safe" means deposited in an insured institution somewhere, and not just in a hole you dug in your back yard, correct?

So, you'd be needing to get $250,000 into your bank account without the bank reporting it. They have to report cash transactions of $10,000 or greater. That can be a single deposit, or a series of deposits if they think a series of deposits is all the result of a single transaction. And, they have to report if they suspect that you're structuring your deposits in such a way as to avoid those reporting requirements. The penalty for getting caught attempting to avoid any of the above to be egregious, like 50% or so.

Even then, when you get all the money into the bank without triggering any mandatory reporting things, you still have a problem. Interest income.It's not much, but if in 2013 you had $25 of interest income, and in 2014 you have $1,400 of interest, their computers will note the HUGE leap in amount of cash savings those amounts imply (at 0.7%, your $25 of interest implies you had on average $3500 in your savings account, whereas $1,400 in interest implies $200,000 in savings. So if there aren't any other items on your tax return that can explain the huge jump in in interest (sale of a house, sale of investments), then they're going to come knocking (well, really, they'll just send a letter) to find out where that huge increase came from.

I know a lot of people here will poo-poo me, but I do work for a lawfirm that does tax planning (amongst a lot of other related services) for high networth types, so i've seen and heard about a lot of the things that have caused them IRS difficulties.

Again, I would love to have the problems you have... And yeah, if it was me,  I would love to get to write a check that big to the IRS, just because if i owed them that much, that'd mean I'd made many times that for myself...

[loadsofmoney]

I actually said I wasn't American twice, so my problem isnt the IRS. My home country is as bad as most but isn't like the US in terms of connecting globally with other countries in terms of tax. I'm from Europe, living in Asia.


People still didn't address my question I think.

How about I put it into a simple sentence.




I want to diversify my BTC into other forms of Crypto but still within the anonymous  'crypto world' be it Ripple, NXT, Qora or something else, so how would you do it with the aim to stabilize your online wealth?

[PilotofBTC]

I actually said I wasn't American twice, so my problem isnt the IRS. My home country is as bad as most but isn't like the US in terms of connecting globally with other countries in terms of tax. I'm from Europe, living in Asia.


People still didn't address my question I think.

How about I put it into a simple sentence.




I want to diversify my BTC into other forms of Crypto but still within the anonymous  'crypto world' be it Ripple, NXT, Qora or something else, so how would you do it with the aim to stabilize your online wealth?

I thought I answered that.

There are only two crypto's that right now look to have any staying power and stability... that is Bitcoin and Litecoin. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of alt-coins. But, really, none of them are a good store of wealth at this time, but keep an eye on them a few might rise to the top.

[loadsofmoney]

I actually said I wasn't American twice, so my problem isnt the IRS. My home country is as bad as most but isn't like the US in terms of connecting globally with other countries in terms of tax. I'm from Europe, living in Asia.


People still didn't address my question I think.

How about I put it into a simple sentence.




I want to diversify my BTC into other forms of Crypto but still within the anonymous  'crypto world' be it Ripple, NXT, Qora or something else, so how would you do it with the aim to stabilize your online wealth?

I thought I answered that.

There are only two crypto's that right now look to have any staying power and stability... that is Bitcoin and Litecoin. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of alt-coins. But, really, none of them are a good store of wealth at this time, but keep an eye on them a few might rise to the top.

Other forms don't mean other coins, it means fiat and commodities held in Crypto realm, a point I've made about 5 times. 


Dude just go away. You've just be about as unhelpful a dick as someone could be. Go away..

[PilotofBTC]

I actually said I wasn't American twice, so my problem isnt the IRS. My home country is as bad as most but isn't like the US in terms of connecting globally with other countries in terms of tax. I'm from Europe, living in Asia.


People still didn't address my question I think.

How about I put it into a simple sentence.




I want to diversify my BTC into other forms of Crypto but still within the anonymous  'crypto world' be it Ripple, NXT, Qora or something else, so how would you do it with the aim to stabilize your online wealth?

I thought I answered that.

There are only two crypto's that right now look to have any staying power and stability... that is Bitcoin and Litecoin. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of alt-coins. But, really, none of them are a good store of wealth at this time, but keep an eye on them a few might rise to the top.

Other forms don't mean other coins, it means fiat and commodities held in Crypto realm, a point I've made about 5 times. 


Dude just go away. You've just be about as unhelpful a dick as someone could be. Go away..

I'm trying to be helpful you are not listening. FIAT is not Crypto! But, no worries I'm gone.

[Wbwallet]

Trade all your coins for gold and get the physical gold in a large safe in your house.. Get good insurance for theft.

[loadsofmoney]

I actually said I wasn't American twice, so my problem isnt the IRS. My home country is as bad as most but isn't like the US in terms of connecting globally with other countries in terms of tax. I'm from Europe, living in Asia.


People still didn't address my question I think.

How about I put it into a simple sentence.




I want to diversify my BTC into other forms of Crypto but still within the anonymous  'crypto world' be it Ripple, NXT, Qora or something else, so how would you do it with the aim to stabilize your online wealth?

I thought I answered that.

There are only two crypto's that right now look to have any staying power and stability... that is Bitcoin and Litecoin. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of alt-coins. But, really, none of them are a good store of wealth at this time, but keep an eye on them a few might rise to the top.

Other forms don't mean other coins, it means fiat and commodities held in Crypto realm, a point I've made about 5 times. 


Dude just go away. You've just be about as unhelpful a dick as someone could be. Go away..

I'm trying to be helpful you are not listening. FIAT is not Crypto! But, no worries I'm gone.

Your not cause you don't understand you can hold Fiat in various ways on Crypto platforms now and very soon. Ripple you can now, today, store USD in your wallet or a number of currencies completely anonymously if you buy them with BTC, connecting to a gateway has no need for trust or divulging personal info.

And the plan is to have Fiat and commodities on developing platforms starting even this week on NXT, and soonish on Qora, Ethereum to name a few.


So you are clueless and giving advice when you don't have even a basic knowledge of Crypto outside the four walls of your BTC wallet.

[railzand]

This is madness. They are all scams or will fail - fiat, ripple, nxt, ethereum, quora, altcoins.

Keep the bitcoin you have and stop messing about trying to lose it.

[Campsis]

If i was you:

Keep 500BTC in encrypted cold wallet in USB somewhere safe.
Cash out another 500BTC for $$ and 70% of it keep it in savings account and another 30% do whatever you want.


Awesome life, i wish i had 10btc. And you have 1000, im jelous..... if only i had 10 

[bl4kjaguar]

On ICBIT exchange, you can "hold US dollars" and earn interest, but it is all based in bitcoin; basically you are insuring your bitcoins' dollar value and getting paid for it. I think that this is the answer to your question.

Also, if you wanted to hold EUR, CAD, JPY, CHF, GBP, or certain equities, then you can use ICBIT in combination with 1broker.com to be fully diversified into fiat but still operating only in bitcoin. Gold and silver are also on 1broker.

Basically, you can hide all kinds of fiat wealth in a bitcoin-denominated account.

[Bit_Happy]

A large sum of money, where would you keep it?
If/when I ever get a chance:
I would divide it into at least 100 parts and give away almost 50% (seriously, giving money away is fun & good for your Karma)
The rest is a burden to keep safe, but at least I gave away almost half. 

[Campsis]

A large sum of money, where would you keep it?
If/when I ever get a chance:
I would divide it into at least 100 parts and give away almost 50% (seriously, giving money away is fun & good for your Karma)
The rest is a burden to keep safe, but at least I gave away almost half. 

That's very generous sir, i wish there were more people like you!