Man what a rough thread.....where to begin.... (I'm REALLY bored right now and looks like a good one to get involved in haha)
There are supposed to be four times more litecoins (84 million) than bitcoins (21 million) so with everything else being equal, Litecoin should cost 1/4 that of Bitcoin. But Litecoin is currently trading at about 10 dollars each while Bitcoin is trading at around 400-500 dollars each which makes it undervalued by a factor of 10.
Has it got something to do with the distribution curve (ie. more litecoins are produced in the first few years compared to Bitcoin)?
There are a few reasons that LTC could be lower in price than what we expect it to be. Anything from market adoption to asics and everything in between. But just understand that no one really knows how and when LTC will go up in price, and if they state otherwise, they are purely guessing. The only true factor I can give you with high fidelity historical accuracy is that LTC is tied to BTC anywhere from .02-.03 classically. So if and when BTC rises, LTC will almost certainly rise as well. In the past there have been "walls" set up at exchanges which has also kept the price of LTC down, of course this is my speculation that those exchanges or some person did this on purpose in order to buy more. But again, that last part was a guess.
Because the top 100 LTC addresses possess over 50% of all available coins in circulation.
Interesting but doubtful this is an issue or a cause in price. If anything this should cause prices to go up, since there are less coins to be spread around. So you might want to rethink your theory. Than again this is most likely also a large chunk of cold storage addresses.
Maybe it's not that litecoins are cheap, but rather, that bitcoin is overpriced
I highly doubt it, I think BTC will continue to rise in a more steady rate rather than the $1,200 explosion we saw at the end of last year.
Litecoin price is about 1/40 of bitcoin and it has been historically at least 1/30 so yeah litecoin can be underpriced
And Feathercoin was generally 1/20th of what Litecoin was. Just sayin
I don't understand the reference. John stated that historically (as I mentioned in the above) its been a certain %, and you throw FTC in there? The reason they aren't 1/20th of BTC is for totally different reasons. I'm glad you can enjoy throwing strawmans out there.
There are supposed to be four times more litecoins (84 million) than bitcoins (21 million) so with everything else being equal, Litecoin should cost 1/4 that of Bitcoin. But Litecoin is currently trading at about 10 dollars each while Bitcoin is trading at around 400-500 dollars each which makes it undervalued by a factor of 10.
Has it got something to do with the distribution curve (ie. more litecoins are produced in the first few years compared to Bitcoin)?
Production and circulation are you using to evaluate the value is obviously unreasonable.
Can determine the value of the only requirement
Production and circulation are two variables of which to measure the profitability of a coin. I'm guessing this is what you are trying to say? I'm sorry, I kind of had difficulty understanding what you typed.
because asic are dumping like crazy
Again, just a guess like everyone else. This "may" be a variable, but a small one in the grand scheme of things.
author=El Dude link=topic=598517.msg6587634#msg6587634 date=1399447835]
Ok everybody calm down , El dude is here to put the trolls in their place. author=Amph link=topic=598517.msg6587322#msg6587322 date=1399446206]
because asic are dumping like crazy
yes , because bitcoin asics "dumped like crazy" and the bitcoin price went down when asics came out , you fool. The opposite happened bitcoin went to $1200 when asics came out.
Litecoin price is about 1/40 of bitcoin and it has been historically at least 1/30 so yeah litecoin can be underpriced
And Feathercoin was generally 1/20th of what Litecoin was. Just sayinFeathercoin lol , that coin is so dead and once btc-e delisted it , it will die just like chinacoin.
Because the top 100 LTC addresses possess over 50% of all available coins in circulation.
go look at peercoin and dogecoin and pretty much every other coin. see here
http://bitinfocharts.com/litecoin/most of these top holders are cold storage for exchanges like btc-e.
eeek
Point 1. You are just guessing
Point 2. Stop bashing other coins, you are doing the same to those coins as others in this thread are doing to LTC. And what banks and governments do to BTC. As a matter of fact, anyone in this thread should be ashamed of themselves for bashing any coins.
Ok everybody calm down , El dude is here to put the trolls in their place.because asic are dumping like crazy
yes , because bitcoin asics "dumped like crazy" and the bitcoin price went down when asics came out , you fool. The opposite happened bitcoin went to $1200 when asics came out.
ehm no btc went to 1200 because of china, not because of asic, when KNC miner are dumping 1k btc a day
tell me why people should buy litecoin, when there are 300mh/s coming that will rape it so hard(the first one will rape it for sure)
not to mention that now litecoin is even more useless because there is no more difference between scrypt and sha256, both are centralized shit
Once again, guessing with the China part. But meh.
I'm curious, when asics came out for BTC (which were far more efficient than LTC asics), did BTC get "raped"? Your statement just shows your ignorance.
And well yes, there are differences. I can list them but I have a feeling even if I did you wouldnt listen. However if you would like to talk about them in a respectful manner im willing to explain further.
so your telling me ASICs making BTC harder to get had nothing to do with the rise to $1200 ? lol
Litecoin was never designed to be asics proof and no coin really is , unless you have a low marketcap and no one cares enough to develop a asics for it. You think gpu weren't centralized ? like the two 7950s you had in your basement made a difference to the 10 000 gpu farms out there.
This is correct, LTC wasn't designed to be asic proof and if there is a market cap for any specific flavor of POW coin (lets take for example x11 since thats the new craze), there will be asics developed for them.
demand is not necessarily correlated to the hashpower, also bitcoin is the first, the increase of his price will be a natural consequence of this
gpu isn't as a centralized as asic, you can't for example, build a farm like KNC farm with just gpu, i challenge anyone to do a thing like that lol
a guy with just 100-200 gpu is still a tiny drop comapred to the total hash(made of only gpu)of a strong scrypt coin
Hashpower doesnt really correlate to demand, but demand almost certainly correlates to hashpower. Think about that for a minute.
Litecoin isn't even a direct fork of Bitcoin. But their devs and marketing and foundation have done a good job making them either number 2, or look like they are number 2.
We are number 2, and yes just like every other coin we work hard to make that happen
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they could but with ASIC, not with gpu, that's the point
now imagines a coin that is as a popular as Bitcoin, but can be mined only with gpu, in a scenario like this is very unlikely that you will find a company that owns 30% of the hash like KNC are doing now with BTC
If a coin is as popular as BTC, someone will develop an asic because there will be a incentive to do so. There is no such thing as completely asic proof unless a coin dev hard forks every so often to change the POW. Other than that you have delusions of grandeur.
Let me set you both straight so there is no confusion here.
1) bitcoin exploded in price because the Chinese realized they could move their assets out of the country without their own government knowing hence the reason property all across America has been getting scooped up by the Chinese for the last year. Greater preservation of wealth exists in America (that's not saying much btw). It's just happens to be luck that ASICs came out in this same window but ultimately the same amount of coins are generated everyday regardless of how quickly difficulty rises. Therefore, price increase was not due to ASICs.
2) if your expecting litecoin prices to spike immediately as ASICs enter the mining pools you are drinking some kind of funky coolaid. ASICs for sha-256 exploded and the difficulty chart looks logarithmic where as the technology for scrypt ASICs will grow linearly and the overall hash rate will be a much slower growth as technology continues to develop.
Personally, I like litecoin as an investment for the long term but realistically it's going to be a couple more years before prices start moving anywhere. Buckle in boys cause its gonna be a slow ride........"to da moon"......that phrase makes people sound like idiots.
CT$
1. This is only a guess.
2. This is correct, no one will know when and if the coin explodes.
3. Yes, more than likely it will take many years to hit the same levels BTC has hit (im talking about 1,200).
This thread was more valid 6 months ago. It's pointless now, because a) Litecoin brings nothing new compared to Bitcoin; b) some other alts have sprung into being over the past 6 months, that do bring something new to the table compared to Bitcoin.
Meaning, capital will continue to pour more into alts with more perspective and less into Litecoin, which will go as low as 0.01 BTC by the end of 2014. It can stay the same dollar wise though, around $10.
LTC is still growing, there are limited resources to continue to pile on innovations when there is a lot of work to be done. If it was done up front than this would be a different story because there wouldnt be an integration issue. Lets state up front that the LTC devs also assist in the fixes and development of BTC as well, they and the BTC devs work well together. The communities could learn a thing from the devs on working together.
Lets be honest here, a few BTC from a pre-mined IPO are pennies compared to the adoption that LTC is experiencing right now, with both markets and exchanges (who were classically BTC only).
I would love to be able to buy and sell LTC on Coinbase. Is this a reality and if so, when?
This will unfortunately take quite a while to be honest. Lets just say "I know".
The creator of Litecoin Coblee works for Coinbase and he has hinted that when the time is right Coinbase will support Litecoin. My guess is sometime in 2014.
Again unfortunately I dont think this will happen in 2014.
El Dude has been singing this 'Charlie works for Coinbase' song for quite a while now. The thing is, this doesn't change anything. There are a lot of other places people can turn their fiat into cryptos, many more such places than a few months ago. That is exactly why I said that this thread is 6 months too late. Market is deciding right now, it has not decided anything yet. It is exactly these periods of seeming stagnation in price that are decisive, because big investors get into the market at these periods when the price is low and they decide what will be #2, and I don't see Litecoin staying at #2, as it brings nothing new that Bitcoin doesn't have.
Both Bitcoin and Litecoin are not designed to be every day internet currency, and being just the store of value - this is what Bitcoin does great, it doesn't need help from Litecoin for that.
Stop getting your panties in a bunch lol. Charlie working for coinbase may or may not help LTC adoption of getting it into coinbase. But you cant argue that it doesnt hurt.
And the entire argument about "why LTC cause BTC blah blah blah" is tired and old. Its like stating why bother having a US government since England was doing just fine, or Visa and Mastercard, or football team X versus football team Y. Its a silly tactic that you and others like you use in order to spread disinformation.
Maybe I dont think LTC is a store of value? What if I want to use it as it was originally intended for by Satoshi, to replace fiat? If Satoshi were to read your statement he would most likely shake his head in disappointment.
Investors don't care about the tech side of coins. They care about longevity and stability especially if they are using their preferred crypto as a store of value. Case in point, would you put 1 million of your own cash into Asiacoin in hopes that it will explode in price? In terms of the best "store of value" litecoin will always be #2.
This seems to be the closest to a factual statement here. The maturity of a coin is very important, and again is one variable in many that determines price.
There's a couple of reasons why it's so cheap right now: 1) Because Bitcoin is currently, and 2) Because there's not really much merchant adoption and demand. I'm sure it'll rise again soon or when Bitcoin does. Maybe now is a good time to buy in.
I stand corrected, second most factual statement here (although merchant adoption is really picking up).
I don't know about bugfixes. But Bitcoin #9 contributed exactly nothing in terms of innovation, unlike some other rare examples of altcoins. I'm sure several more teams from altcoin world are able contribute to Bitcoin too, and I suspect they already do. Bitcoin repository has 198 contributors. It's so many, that imo it's unlikely, that there are no some altcoin developers among them besides Litecoin developers. But still, that doesn't make their own shitcoins less worthless.
Yes they contribute quite a bit, I saw somewhere a interaction chart of dev to dev, and Warren was fairly involved for a non BTC dev (more so than any other coin).
Because it's a shitcoin? It adds nothing of value now that scrypt asics are here, so I'm honestly surprised it's even worth what it is.
This.
LTC advantage has been advertised as GPU resistance first, then ASIC resistance and now what ? Cmon guys, you have to wait for LTC to be added to MtGox so the price can go to the moon. Wait, this wont happen anymore
It was and still is resistant. If you dont understand what that word means let me google it for you
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+does+resistant+meanAnd please dont even mention empty gox. Its a stain on BTC, LTC, and every other coin out there.
Because it's a shitcoin? It adds nothing of value now that scrypt asics are here, so I'm honestly surprised it's even worth what it is.
This.
LTC advantage has been advertised as GPU resistance first, then ASIC resistance and now what ? Cmon guys, you have to wait for LTC to be added to MtGox so the price can go to the moon. Wait, this wont happen anymore
Yes this. LTC is a shitcoin since it dilutes bitcoin valuation (of which everyone should care about since it's the market leader) without bringing anything new to the table. It's purely gold-rush mentality right now.
LTC ASIC manufacturers, even more so than Bitcoin get rich by 'aging' (burn in) on ASIC setups with ability to scale huge farms and expand rapidly, (10's-100's of gigahash) - then they sell to greedy end customers who buy assembled hardware at up to 1000's of percent markup, then they can dump at almost any price without a loss and laugh as the rest struggle to break even.
Now anyone investing today in LTC expects increase in litecoins market cap too! lol!!. Based on what infrastructure? even sustain is optimistic. a 5x increase in LTC price will be a 1.5 billion $ market cap. do you know how much fiat inflow required for this? That's fiat that will be diverted away from BTC, and since BTC falls. LTC falls, and then home miners with bills to pay need to dump more and house of cards comes tumbling down.
I perfectly understand many of you are tired of altcoins; there is one created every day and what is their purpose? Right, to pump it, sell it, done. Next.
While I'm in a hurry right now, I could give you literally a list of all the good things about Litecoin; things this 'altcoin' does different than those shitcoins.
Anyway, a ton of these shitcoins are based on Litecoin. It must do something right, don't you think?
Litecoin was a clone coin of Fairbrix. which was clone of tenebrix and so on. Public did not know POW was broken. and devs are lazy, many shitcoins take the easy route by copy pasting litcoin codebase or using coingen and tweaking few params, add few gimmicks, maybe call it texascoin or squirrelcoin. bam. instant profit.
LTC offers nothing of value over BTC.
Eeeek, another one. Here goes nothing.....
The very idea that LTC dilutes BTC value is not only pure speculation, its FUD and should be treated as such. For starters, crypto-currencies are suppose to replace fiat, or as a viable alternative. Meaning at the end of this, people should be pricing USD in BTC or LTC amount. I know its still early adoption and we all have a long way to go, but once this happens (and it may one day), how will it "devalue" BTC? This is simple thinking.
BTC is the market leader correct, but there are other alt coins out there that provide better innovation than BTC. I guess that makes BTC a shitcoin as well?
You are correct, its a gold rush mentality.
As for the last statement, value doesnt mean capital in something. Do you really think there is all those billions of dollars of BTC are really there? What happened to all the rest of the billions of dollars that were in the market cap (1,200 per BTC) to now (400ish or whatever today), some magic money maker and financial wizard just pulled out? Your just silly and need to rethink your statements.
author=devphp link=topic=598517.msg6614345#msg6614345 date=1399562481]
Investors don't care about the tech side of coins. They care about longevity and stability especially if they are using their preferred crypto as a store of value. Case in point, would you put 1 million of your own cash into Asiacoin in hopes that it will explode in price? In terms of the best "store of value" litecoin will always be #2.
There can only be one store of value coin, and that is Bitcoin. Two coins for store of value is too much, there is simply not enough fiat liquidity looking for permanent storage in this market for two coins. Now that this is out of the way, the market also needs a coin for circulation, and it can't be Litecoin either, because it's too rare for that, just like Bitcoin. And here comes Dogecoin, to be the preferred currency to circulate and to be spent, while Bitcoin is hoarded. I don't see where Litecoin fits in here.
Damn, I wish someone would have told me there can be only one store of value before I bought gold and silver. I guess its against the law and was stupid of me! Also see my last response about fiat and market caps and such.
Last thing I want to say is this (I kind of already stated it). You people should be ashamed of yourselves for bashing any other coin, whether it be BTC, LTC, Doge, FTC, or something else. You are doing the same thing that the governments and banks are doing to BTC. We are all in this together, and that is to fight the good fight and finally be able to have financial freedom from the crooks all over the world that controls our money supply.
I'm asking....no begging....please stop the hate. It is counter productive and a waste of time and energy.
EDIT: Fixing broken quote brackets
