Ask Amazon for Bitcoin Payments

[ebliever]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I've been buying Amazon gift cards and other items at Amazon (tracfone and airtime, etc.) with bitcoin at a 15-25% discount (!) thanks to Purse.io - well, around 13-23% discount once I replenish my BTC with fiat, but it's still a great deal.

i spend quite a bit on amazon with bitcoins, so this interests me. but ive always bee skeptical of discount marketplaces like this. are there buyer protections for those selling bitcoin/buying amazon purchases?

I have the same concerns. I've been using Gyft for my Amazon purchases, but I may switch to something like this if it looks promising.

Purse is similar to paypal in that it is p2p buying. You buy something via purse.io for bitcoin, the seller pays for the product in fiat and receives bitcoin.

I have been interested in this as well. I would like to see some feedback on both Gyft and Purse.io, if you guys have any.

I haven't used Gyft but have heard nothing bad about them. If I hadn't found Purse I'd be using them myself by now. I wonder how long Purse will be able to command substantial discounts, but so far so good with it.

[DannyElfman]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I've been buying Amazon gift cards and other items at Amazon (tracfone and airtime, etc.) with bitcoin at a 15-25% discount (!) thanks to Purse.io - well, around 13-23% discount once I replenish my BTC with fiat, but it's still a great deal.

i spend quite a bit on amazon with bitcoins, so this interests me. but ive always bee skeptical of discount marketplaces like this. are there buyer protections for those selling bitcoin/buying amazon purchases?

I have the same concerns. I've been using Gyft for my Amazon purchases, but I may switch to something like this if it looks promising.

Purse is similar to paypal in that it is p2p buying. You buy something via purse.io for bitcoin, the seller pays for the product in fiat and receives bitcoin.

Yes, but what are the buyer/seller protection policies? What if a gift card turns out to be fraudulently obtained? What happens then?

With purse.io you don't get a gift card, you receive actual products and do not release escrow until you actually receive the items. Everything is tracked with Amazon as far as order numbers and tracking numbers.

[Dylanwolthy]

WOW,it's a great news if the BTC accpeted by Amazon.

[ebliever]

I'll share another experience with Purse: One of my transactions was supposedly filled ~2 weeks ago for a $100 gift card; last week the bidder claimed it had been delivered to me on the transaction page. (Each transaction has a section in which brief messages can be passed back and forth between the BTC seller, the bidder, and Purse.)

I hadn't gotten the delivery and asked for tracking info, etc., but did not get a response. This morning was the 1 week mark since the bidder claimed it was delivered, so I was planning to open a dispute with Purse to try to resolve it (since my funds are tied up in escrow indefinitely otherwise), but I found Purse had proactively created a dispute last night, reporting that Amazon had canceled the order. I'm still awaiting final resolution on this bid but I appreciate Purse being on the ball and hope to be able to get the transaction canceled out so I can relist again shortly. Having a bidder claim to have paid for an item and not getting it on my end is obviously a worst case scenario, but even in this case it appears to be getting handled well.

[murraypaul]

I hadn't gotten the delivery and asked for tracking info, etc., but did not get a response. This morning was the 1 week mark since the bidder claimed it was delivered, so I was planning to open a dispute with Purse to try to resolve it (since my funds are tied up in escrow indefinitely otherwise), but I found Purse had proactively created a dispute last night, reporting that Amazon had canceled the order. I'm still awaiting final resolution on this bid but I appreciate Purse being on the ball and hope to be able to get the transaction canceled out so I can relist again shortly. Having a bidder claim to have paid for an item and not getting it on my end is obviously a worst case scenario, but even in this case it appears to be getting handled well.

It just struck me that another very good use of this service (and perhaps a reason for orders being cancelled by Amazon when it doesn't work) is for people trying to drain money from stolen credit cards or hacked Amazon accounts.
Normally the problem with buying online with a stolen card is that you have to actually receive the goods, which means being tied to an address. Here you can send the goods to someone else's address, and get (reasonably) untraceable bitcoin in return.
Purse risk becoming (not necessarily through any fault of their own) a high tech online fence. And Amazon may get fed up of being drawn in to that.

[ebliever]

I hadn't gotten the delivery and asked for tracking info, etc., but did not get a response. This morning was the 1 week mark since the bidder claimed it was delivered, so I was planning to open a dispute with Purse to try to resolve it (since my funds are tied up in escrow indefinitely otherwise), but I found Purse had proactively created a dispute last night, reporting that Amazon had canceled the order. I'm still awaiting final resolution on this bid but I appreciate Purse being on the ball and hope to be able to get the transaction canceled out so I can relist again shortly. Having a bidder claim to have paid for an item and not getting it on my end is obviously a worst case scenario, but even in this case it appears to be getting handled well.

It just struck me that another very good use of this service (and perhaps a reason for orders being cancelled by Amazon when it doesn't work) is for people trying to drain money from stolen credit cards or hacked Amazon accounts.
Normally the problem with buying online with a stolen card is that you have to actually receive the goods, which means being tied to an address. Here you can send the goods to someone else's address, and get (reasonably) untraceable bitcoin in return.
Purse risk becoming (not necessarily through any fault of their own) a high tech online fence. And Amazon may get fed up of being drawn in to that.

Hadn't thought of that, but that's a fair point. I'll bring it up with Purse to see if there is a way to safeguard against that, perhaps by enabling Amazon to interact with the escrow process or something.

[gonnafly]

They dont even take paypal.

[sugarfree]

Amazon will be the last online retailer to accept bitcoin and only after many lobbying attempts to have it outlawed

[ebliever]

I'll share another experience with Purse: One of my transactions was supposedly filled ~2 weeks ago for a $100 gift card; last week the bidder claimed it had been delivered to me on the transaction page. (Each transaction has a section in which brief messages can be passed back and forth between the BTC seller, the bidder, and Purse.)

I hadn't gotten the delivery and asked for tracking info, etc., but did not get a response. This morning was the 1 week mark since the bidder claimed it was delivered, so I was planning to open a dispute with Purse to try to resolve it (since my funds are tied up in escrow indefinitely otherwise), but I found Purse had proactively created a dispute last night, reporting that Amazon had canceled the order. I'm still awaiting final resolution on this bid but I appreciate Purse being on the ball and hope to be able to get the transaction canceled out so I can relist again shortly. Having a bidder claim to have paid for an item and not getting it on my end is obviously a worst case scenario, but even in this case it appears to be getting handled well.

Just a minor update on Purse.io - after a couple days without any notification they canceled the contested order I outlined above, freeing up my escrowed funds. So that worked out well for me. My only quibble would be that their system lacks a good "transaction history" page that includes canceled transactions or the ability to view messages on completed orders. Once an order is complete the page for it vanishes and all you have is a record of the BTC transacted on such and such date. Not a big deal, presumably they will flesh out the system as they have time.

In other news I got another pair of orders accepted at 20% and 25% discounts.

[hollowframe]

I hadn't gotten the delivery and asked for tracking info, etc., but did not get a response. This morning was the 1 week mark since the bidder claimed it was delivered, so I was planning to open a dispute with Purse to try to resolve it (since my funds are tied up in escrow indefinitely otherwise), but I found Purse had proactively created a dispute last night, reporting that Amazon had canceled the order. I'm still awaiting final resolution on this bid but I appreciate Purse being on the ball and hope to be able to get the transaction canceled out so I can relist again shortly. Having a bidder claim to have paid for an item and not getting it on my end is obviously a worst case scenario, but even in this case it appears to be getting handled well.

It just struck me that another very good use of this service (and perhaps a reason for orders being cancelled by Amazon when it doesn't work) is for people trying to drain money from stolen credit cards or hacked Amazon accounts.
Normally the problem with buying online with a stolen card is that you have to actually receive the goods, which means being tied to an address. Here you can send the goods to someone else's address, and get (reasonably) untraceable bitcoin in return.
Purse risk becoming (not necessarily through any fault of their own) a high tech online fence. And Amazon may get fed up of being drawn in to that.

Hadn't thought of that, but that's a fair point. I'll bring it up with Purse to see if there is a way to safeguard against that, perhaps by enabling Amazon to interact with the escrow process or something.

I really don't see any way around this issue as it can take a long time for credit cards to be reported stolen and disputes opened. The bitcoin sellers could potentially be criminally investigated if stolen credit cards are used to have items shipped to them.

[ebliever]

I hadn't gotten the delivery and asked for tracking info, etc., but did not get a response. This morning was the 1 week mark since the bidder claimed it was delivered, so I was planning to open a dispute with Purse to try to resolve it (since my funds are tied up in escrow indefinitely otherwise), but I found Purse had proactively created a dispute last night, reporting that Amazon had canceled the order. I'm still awaiting final resolution on this bid but I appreciate Purse being on the ball and hope to be able to get the transaction canceled out so I can relist again shortly. Having a bidder claim to have paid for an item and not getting it on my end is obviously a worst case scenario, but even in this case it appears to be getting handled well.

It just struck me that another very good use of this service (and perhaps a reason for orders being cancelled by Amazon when it doesn't work) is for people trying to drain money from stolen credit cards or hacked Amazon accounts.
Normally the problem with buying online with a stolen card is that you have to actually receive the goods, which means being tied to an address. Here you can send the goods to someone else's address, and get (reasonably) untraceable bitcoin in return.
Purse risk becoming (not necessarily through any fault of their own) a high tech online fence. And Amazon may get fed up of being drawn in to that.

Hadn't thought of that, but that's a fair point. I'll bring it up with Purse to see if there is a way to safeguard against that, perhaps by enabling Amazon to interact with the escrow process or something.

I really don't see any way around this issue as it can take a long time for credit cards to be reported stolen and disputes opened. The bitcoin sellers could potentially be criminally investigated if stolen credit cards are used to have items shipped to them.

Investigated yes, but I doubt if anything could come of it once the investigators saw and understood the escrow system in use. Unless a bidder openly made comments confessing to a theft in the messaging system for a bid, I don't see how we could possibly be held accountable. And if such a comment were made, I'd see what I could do to ferret them out and report them to appropriate law enforcement.

[EternalWingsofGod]

Amazon will be the last online retailer to accept bitcoin and only after many lobbying attempts to have it outlawed

How are you so sure? Time will say it. Bitcoins are real money in earnest, of course has its advantages and evil side like everything but it's calling the peoples attention. Amazon is just around the corner.

Whatever makes them money is what they will use
Bitcoin and amazon are not mortal foes perhaps ebay and paypal are though

[hollowframe]

I hadn't gotten the delivery and asked for tracking info, etc., but did not get a response. This morning was the 1 week mark since the bidder claimed it was delivered, so I was planning to open a dispute with Purse to try to resolve it (since my funds are tied up in escrow indefinitely otherwise), but I found Purse had proactively created a dispute last night, reporting that Amazon had canceled the order. I'm still awaiting final resolution on this bid but I appreciate Purse being on the ball and hope to be able to get the transaction canceled out so I can relist again shortly. Having a bidder claim to have paid for an item and not getting it on my end is obviously a worst case scenario, but even in this case it appears to be getting handled well.

It just struck me that another very good use of this service (and perhaps a reason for orders being cancelled by Amazon when it doesn't work) is for people trying to drain money from stolen credit cards or hacked Amazon accounts.
Normally the problem with buying online with a stolen card is that you have to actually receive the goods, which means being tied to an address. Here you can send the goods to someone else's address, and get (reasonably) untraceable bitcoin in return.
Purse risk becoming (not necessarily through any fault of their own) a high tech online fence. And Amazon may get fed up of being drawn in to that.

Hadn't thought of that, but that's a fair point. I'll bring it up with Purse to see if there is a way to safeguard against that, perhaps by enabling Amazon to interact with the escrow process or something.

I really don't see any way around this issue as it can take a long time for credit cards to be reported stolen and disputes opened. The bitcoin sellers could potentially be criminally investigated if stolen credit cards are used to have items shipped to them.

Investigated yes, but I doubt if anything could come of it once the investigators saw and understood the escrow system in use. Unless a bidder openly made comments confessing to a theft in the messaging system for a bid, I don't see how we could possibly be held accountable. And if such a comment were made, I'd see what I could do to ferret them out and report them to appropriate law enforcement.

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

[ebliever]

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

Before it gets to that point a prosecutor has to judge whether it is even worth the bother, and I wouldn't think it would progress past that point. Unless you think everyone who gets a good deal selling something on Ebay should be taken to court just in case of wrongdoing, for example.

I make a wishlist on Amazon. I share it on Purse, with a discount I'm seeking from people who want to buy BTC with a credit card. An anonymous bidder accepts my offer. When the item(s) arrive I Confirm Delivery on Purse and the BTC transfers. How could a judge or jury or prosecutor think from that sequence of events that the BTC holder "knowingly" was a party to criminal activity? Might as well just arrest anyone with cash in their pockets, all bankers, etc., because their cash might once have been involved in a crime.

As I already stated, I will do my best to report any confession of illegal activity by a bidder for BTC (unlikely as that may be). I've also brought up this whole issue with Purse (including a link to this thread); I'll share what response I get if any.

[ThomasCrowne]

Spoke with a representative from Amazon ~1.5 weeks ago about this very thing.  She indicated that she herself had received at least half a dozen requests for bitcoin payment options just within the last week.  Given enough pressure and requests I suspect Amazon should be completely on board by the middle of next year at the latest.  (*taking off tin-foil hat*)

[halfawake]

Spoke with a representative from Amazon ~1.5 weeks ago about this very thing.  She indicated that she herself had received at least half a dozen requests for bitcoin payment options just within the last week.  Given enough pressure and requests I suspect Amazon should be completely on board by the middle of next year at the latest.  (*taking off tin-foil hat*)

It'll definitely be interesting to see how this plays out.  This may also be a case of be careful what you wish for, as this might not be as good as we think for bitcoin, if it comes before the bitcoin infrastructure is ready for it.

[ebliever]

I did get a response from Purse, I think from one of the founders actually. It reads (excerpted):

...There are many reasons we chose to integrate with Amazon, and one of them is the fact that they have a state-of-the-art fraud detection system and a strong anti-chargeback process.

Sometimes, Amazon cancels even legitimate orders because it looks suspicious to them (i.e. $1,000 gift card order purchased from Brazil to a Spender in Alabama). People who Buy BTC through our site and try to chargeback Amazon will find their attempts fruitless. Amazon will provide evidence that they shipped and delivered the product and will require a return of the items before they issue a refund to the Buyer. They have great relationships issuing and merchant banks, and they do not outsource payments.

On Purse's side, our system ensures that Spenders aren't exposed to fraud. Spenders' BTC aren't at risk because they have to confirm delivery of the item. We are developing capabilities that detect changes in Amazon orders so that we minimize the wait time for Spenders.

[DannyElfman]

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

Before it gets to that point a prosecutor has to judge whether it is even worth the bother, and I wouldn't think it would progress past that point. Unless you think everyone who gets a good deal selling something on Ebay should be taken to court just in case of wrongdoing, for example.

I make a wishlist on Amazon. I share it on Purse, with a discount I'm seeking from people who want to buy BTC with a credit card. An anonymous bidder accepts my offer. When the item(s) arrive I Confirm Delivery on Purse and the BTC transfers. How could a judge or jury or prosecutor think from that sequence of events that the BTC holder "knowingly" was a party to criminal activity? Might as well just arrest anyone with cash in their pockets, all bankers, etc., because their cash might once have been involved in a crime.

As I already stated, I will do my best to report any confession of illegal activity by a bidder for BTC (unlikely as that may be). I've also brought up this whole issue with Purse (including a link to this thread); I'll share what response I get if any.

What if the prosecutor were to think that you were the anonymous bidder who is simply trying to hide your tracks by used purse to use a stolen credit card?

[slaveforanunnak1]

The founder of Overstock.com is such a dope dude! He is a total hippy! I love him! I love to hang out with him for a day and just learn! FK amazon!

[ebliever]

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

Before it gets to that point a prosecutor has to judge whether it is even worth the bother, and I wouldn't think it would progress past that point. Unless you think everyone who gets a good deal selling something on Ebay should be taken to court just in case of wrongdoing, for example.

I make a wishlist on Amazon. I share it on Purse, with a discount I'm seeking from people who want to buy BTC with a credit card. An anonymous bidder accepts my offer. When the item(s) arrive I Confirm Delivery on Purse and the BTC transfers. How could a judge or jury or prosecutor think from that sequence of events that the BTC holder "knowingly" was a party to criminal activity? Might as well just arrest anyone with cash in their pockets, all bankers, etc., because their cash might once have been involved in a crime.

As I already stated, I will do my best to report any confession of illegal activity by a bidder for BTC (unlikely as that may be). I've also brought up this whole issue with Purse (including a link to this thread); I'll share what response I get if any.

What if the prosecutor were to think that you were the anonymous bidder who is simply trying to hide your tracks by used purse to use a stolen credit card?

Good question... I assume they'd be looking for some kind of evidence to back that up. They'd have to have _something_ beyond a mere suspicion to make it worthy of going to trial. And in my case there'd simply be nothing. No evidence in computer records (on my own or the ISP, etc.) nothing in my personal life, real life contacts/associates, relation to any credit card fraud victims, I'd almost certainly have alibis for the time/place of any crimes, etc. And I'd be fully cooperative since I'd have nothing to hide. So again, I couldn't see this going anywhere near a trial.