Fractional Reserve Lending IS NOT bad - its unavoidable

[Ozziecoin]

Here you go:

"Frankly speaking, foreign exchange reserves have become a big burden for us, because such reserves translate into the base money, which could affect inflation," Phoenix New Media Ltd quoted Li as saying during a visit to Kenya. "From China's perspective, macroeconomic controls could face tremendous pressures if the overall trade is imbalanced."

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/34972660.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

The Chinese are getting smarter. 

[RoadTrain]

Of course the US can default on their own debt.  When the Chinese, Japanese and Germans stop accepting paper in return for real goods and services.

Yeah, and what are they supposed to accept instead?

Not your toilet paper mate.

That's really sad, I did save some of my used toilet paper under the mattress. It's worthless now, what a shame.

Here you go:

"Frankly speaking, foreign exchange reserves have become a big burden for us, because such reserves translate into the base money, which could affect inflation," Phoenix New Media Ltd quoted Li as saying during a visit to Kenya. "From China's perspective, macroeconomic controls could face tremendous pressures if the overall trade is imbalanced."

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/34972660.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

The Chinese are getting smarter. 

OH NOES THE US IS GOING TO DEFAULT NOW
What's the point?

[solarion]

While I agree that absurdly low(artificially low is how I usually refer to it) interest rates are a huge problem, as it doesn't allow for a price discovery mechanism to operate, brutally punishes savers, and rewards gamblers, this isn't the whole problem. After all the very same NON governmental "authority" setting interest rates also "prints" the nation's currency, which it then lends to congress with interest. Plainly there's no legitimate reason to do this as congress is granted the authority to print our currency directly without interest, which is why there's a US treasury(they still stamp our coins). However if you're a politician in DC and you want to spend more than you're taking in it's fantastic, as you can inflate the budget to your heart's content and saddle future generations with that debt. This wouldn't be possible with a sound currency. You cannot simply whip up an extra trillion gold certificates as someone may well try to exchange those certificates for gold you do not have.

Nah. You don't seem to understand our current monetary system. That's become clear when you wrote this old "saddle future generations with debt" manthra.
Government debt is not a burden, it's a monetary instrument for the monetary system. That's why congress doesn't simply print the currency but issues debt. If it started printing, the Fed would have to start selling its own debt (net effect would be zero) or just let rates plunge to zero forever without the ability to raise them.

Also government debt is an asset for private sector. When government is running fiscal deficit, it isn't saddling future generations with debt, it provides current generation with an asset. Perfect credit risk free asset. Moreover only the government sector and the foreign sector are able to add net monetary assets to the domestic private sector. Government does it through deficit spending, the foreign sector does it through current account deficit (for the foreign sector).

You ignore the fact that it's impossible (well, only possible if you're dumb) to default on your own debt in your own currency.

If you imply that Fed is ruled by banksters then you imply that all government is too. But it's not a monetary problem, but a political one.

Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.

[Ozziecoin]

Fractional Reserve Banking IS bad.  Here is why: http://ozziecoin.com/?page_id=1068

[RoadTrain]

Ozziecoin, gotcha. You're a spammer, how could I be so blind

Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.

Got it. I don't currently want to educate anyone, so I won't. Just a relaxing conversation happening here

[Ozziecoin]

Ozziecoin, gotcha. You're a spammer, how could I be so blind

Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.

Got it. I don't currently want to educate anyone, so I won't. Just a relaxing conversation happening here

Saves me having to repeat myself.  Also, able to avoid your rambling logic.   

[RoadTrain]

Ozziecoin, gotcha. You're a spammer, how could I be so blind

Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.

Got it. I don't currently want to educate anyone, so I won't. Just a relaxing conversation happening here

Saves me having to repeat myself.  Also, able to avoid your rambling logic.   

Having to repeat nonsense you wanted to say?
At least you seem to be familiar with Goebbels methods

[Ozziecoin]

Ozziecoin, gotcha. You're a spammer, how could I be so blind

Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.

Got it. I don't currently want to educate anyone, so I won't. Just a relaxing conversation happening here

Saves me having to repeat myself.  Also, able to avoid your rambling logic.   

Having to repeat nonsense you wanted to say?
At least you seem to be familiar with Goebbels methods

Nonsense appears to be coming from your side of the fence mate. 

[Ozziecoin]

Here is how to avoid Fractional Reserve Lending = USE THE BLOCKCHAIN

Do not allow off blockchain transactions.  Problem solved.  Case closed.  This thread is dead.

[solarion]

Ozziecoin, gotcha. You're a spammer, how could I be so blind

Start a separate thread if you wish to discuss this...misguided post at length.

Got it. I don't currently want to educate anyone, so I won't. Just a relaxing conversation happening here

Understood.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[whathewhat]

Hey, just want to be clear why you guys are saying frb is 'fraud'. I don't get it. Fraud means that there was some dishonesty. However, the frb system, at least in the us, is very well understood and how it works is public knowledge. So, no real deception/dishonesty. Who is deceiving who, and how?

[r34tr783tr78]

On the issue of Fractional reserve banking being a fraud or not, I just want to point out that we individuals would go to jail if we started lending several times money people entrusted to us. But never mind.

I'm just going to say that FRB allows banks to increase M3 and to profit for that liquid creation of money. Taking in account that M3 is several times bigger than M1 (mainly, notes and coins), even taking in account that a big part of M3 is created directly by the central bank (by crediting banks with money on the accounts they have in the central bank) we are still allowing private corporations to create a huge part of our money.

Therefore, we are depriving the State/Central bank of the power to create all the money that is created by banks. If FRB was tighter or inexistent, a huge (or all) part of the M3 created by banks would be created by the central bank and given out to public entities without the risk of creating inflation. So less taxes for all of us.

Basically, part of the taxes we pay go to support Fractional reserve banking and the profits given by it to banks.

[Ozziecoin]

Hey, just want to be clear why you guys are saying frb is 'fraud'. I don't get it. Fraud means that there was some dishonesty. However, the frb system, at least in the us, is very well understood and how it works is public knowledge. So, no real deception/dishonesty. Who is deceiving who, and how?

Not well understood by the public.  And especially retirees, savers and other hardworking people out there.

[whathewhat]

On the issue of Fractional reserve banking being a fraud or not, I just want to point out that we individuals would go to jail if we started lending several times money people entrusted to us. But never mind.

Individuals are not banks. There is a special set of regulations that allows banks to do what they do. These do not extend to individuals (unless those individuals decide to open a bank )

[Ozziecoin]

On the issue of Fractional reserve banking being a fraud or not, I just want to point out that we individuals would go to jail if we started lending several times money people entrusted to us. But never mind.

Individuals are not banks. There is a special set of regulations that allows banks to do what they do. These do not extend to individuals (unless those individuals decide to open a bank )

And please explain to us all why banks should have this special privilege?  And tell me what is the Blockchain for?

[whathewhat]

Hey, just want to be clear why you guys are saying frb is 'fraud'. I don't get it. Fraud means that there was some dishonesty. However, the frb system, at least in the us, is very well understood and how it works is public knowledge. So, no real deception/dishonesty. Who is deceiving who, and how?

Not well understood by the public.  And especially retirees, savers and other hardworking people out there.

Not sure I get your point. Its not like the rules governing banks and fractional reserve are secret and/or deceptive. They can be retrieved via internet, library, etc. Wikipedia has good summaries of it too. The rules are published and the banks operate by those rules. I don't see any fraud. Or am I missing something?

[Razick]

Wrong.
Fractional reserve lending is fraud.
Prices transmit information in a free market.
"Some holder(s) of a larger amount of this currency lend currency out to individuals, to collect interest. This creates a fractional reserve banking phenomenon"
lending money at interest is not fractional reserve banking.
You have your definitions mixed up. 

In what world is fractional reserve banking fraud? When you take your money to the bank and they agree to hold it for you and pay interest, you know that they are doing so in order to lend it out. If they didn't lend it out, you would have to pay THEM interest.

Also, the benefit of fractional reserve banking is that it allows multiple people to use the same money at the same time. You can have your money in a rainy-day fund, and I can use it to buy stuff until you need it back. Locking money in a vault and doing nothing with it for years is not productive.

[whathewhat]

On the issue of Fractional reserve banking being a fraud or not, I just want to point out that we individuals would go to jail if we started lending several times money people entrusted to us. But never mind.

Individuals are not banks. There is a special set of regulations that allows banks to do what they do. These do not extend to individuals (unless those individuals decide to open a bank )

And please explain to us all why banks should have this special privilege?  And tell me what is the Blockchain for?

Because that's what the politicians we voted into office legislated. That's the rules that were made. For the same reason a policeman gets to arrest people and I don't. Right?

Block chain is for keeping a history of transactions. Why?

[Razick]

On the issue of Fractional reserve banking being a fraud or not, I just want to point out that we individuals would go to jail if we started lending several times money people entrusted to us. But never mind.

Individuals are not banks. There is a special set of regulations that allows banks to do what they do. These do not extend to individuals (unless those individuals decide to open a bank )

And please explain to us all why banks should have this special privilege?  And tell me what is the Blockchain for?

The only reason it is a special privilege is because the government labels anyone who does so a bank. You can't bank without being a bank and therefore only banks are allowed to bank. If regulations did not restrict the ability of individuals to privately borrow and lend money, anyone could do it. As long as they were responsible about it there would be nothing wrong.

By the way, fractional reserve banking is nothing more than borrowing money to invest it. For example, I would be engaging in activities very similar to FRB:

1: If I borrow money on a site like BTC Jam and then loan it out at a higher interest rate, or if I buy Bitcoins using money from my credit card and then loan out those Bitcoins.

2: If I borrow money on a credit card to buy stocks at an IPO, since a stock is essentially a loan to a company secured with partial ownership (to be more accurate I could buy bonds).

[r34tr783tr78]

FR isn't only the right to lend out money someone lent to us, in the end it's the right to create money by lending the same amount of money several times.
Technically, isn't fraud, but it's risky and concedes a public function (a sovereign one) to a corporation, the right to create money, crowding out as unnecessary the same amount of public money. If the bank can lend the same money, it doesn't have to ask for credit from the central bank. We all lose.