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Author Topic: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?  (Read 9649 times)
EhVedadoOAnonimato
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January 20, 2012, 10:16:13 PM
 #41

having to remember/transfer super long addresses is not broken Roll Eyes

This is definitely "not broken". I really don't find this a problem, at all. And for those crying about the sender having to pay to include the larger transactions, come on, I bet you can include transactions to multi-sig addresses paying an irrelevant fee. And probably the only reason they wouldn't be included for free is due to the standard fee policy.*

I'm not saying BIP 16/17 are not interesting. Only that there's no reason to rush or stress over it.

You people are really "making a storm in a glass of water".

* There you go, an example of something I find more important than these BIPs: removing the standard fee policy. This would need anti-spam protection. I remember some development was on the way concerning this, but I don't know if it's finished...
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January 20, 2012, 10:22:14 PM
 #42

having to remember/transfer super long addresses is not broken Roll Eyes

This is definitely "not broken". I really don't find this a problem, at all.

So you are using multi-sig right?  Why not?
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January 20, 2012, 10:54:26 PM
 #43

from what i can tell, OP is either seriously ignorant or a troll. Undecided

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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January 20, 2012, 11:16:30 PM
 #44

I can imagine the reaction of kokjo when BIND8 arrived, he was using BIND4 his entire life... Now all is different! Oh my!!

How to setup my domain.com?!?! I need to learn all again! CRAP!

Pleeease... Grow up... Evolution is part of this Universe, gets used to it! Even if all is good, the evolution come and try to make things better today than yesterday.

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January 21, 2012, 01:28:03 AM
 #45

If you don't like evolution, you can simply go back to use old currencies as usd/eur are Wink

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January 21, 2012, 01:32:48 AM
 #46

If you don't want to change you can just ignore the new feature(s). There is zero risk with the proposed changes for anybody running old, un-hacked versions of bitcoin.

(if you are solo mining and hacked your version of bitcoin to accept 'non-standard' transactions then you could shoot yourself in your foot, but even that is unlikely).

How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
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January 21, 2012, 02:06:25 AM
 #47

mine bank does not. i have keep my computer free from virus. like any other person should do.
oh boy, more of "I NEVER SAW THIS THEREFORE IT NEVER HAPPENS". Roll Eyes there's a lot of things people should do. but do everyone do it? no. not everyone is a pro when it comes to computers, and people are especially vulnerable to social engineering attacks. what's so bad about adding an extra layer of security? This isn't your project. if you don't like this change, you're free to start your own fork. the source code in on github.
im trying to get you to spoon feed me, because this stuff is just sooo stupid, that you have to realise what you are doing.
not sure if serious. then i read the text below your avatar. now you're on my ignore list
evolution will eliminate week species. computer retards -> week species.

<nazi type="grammar">You sir are a rather WEAK speller.</nazi>

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January 21, 2012, 02:54:17 AM
 #48

though this change seems to me as something that must be done, it does seems a bit rushed.
My only concern that maybe not enough testing was done and there would be a way to exploit the change after it goes live...
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January 21, 2012, 05:54:21 AM
 #49

from what i can tell, OP is either seriously ignorant or a troll. Undecided
Kokjo has been trolling for a while if you weren't aware of it.

This or he's never thinking twice before spewing a post.
kokjo
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January 21, 2012, 07:47:58 AM
 #50

I can imagine the reaction of kokjo when BIND8 arrived, he was using BIND4 his entire life... Now all is different! Oh my!!

How to setup my domain.com?!?! I need to learn all again! CRAP!

Pleeease... Grow up... Evolution is part of this Universe, gets used to it! Even if all is good, the evolution come and try to make things better today than yesterday.
no dude. BIND8 does not change the dns protocol, and any old client would work fine. its just the config file on some server i need to mess around with.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 21, 2012, 07:51:04 AM
 #51

mine bank does not. i have keep my computer free from virus. like any other person should do.
oh boy, more of "I NEVER SAW THIS THEREFORE IT NEVER HAPPENS". Roll Eyes there's a lot of things people should do. but do everyone do it? no. not everyone is a pro when it comes to computers, and people are especially vulnerable to social engineering attacks. what's so bad about adding an extra layer of security? This isn't your project. if you don't like this change, you're free to start your own fork. the source code in on github.
im trying to get you to spoon feed me, because this stuff is just sooo stupid, that you have to realise what you are doing.
not sure if serious. then i read the text below your avatar. now you're on my ignore list
evolution will eliminate week species. computer retards -> week species.

<nazi type="grammar">You sir are a rather WEAK speller.</nazi>
true, but as long as the message gets through, i don't care.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 21, 2012, 08:05:47 AM
 #52

If you don't want to change you can just ignore the new feature(s). There is zero risk with the proposed changes for anybody running old, un-hacked versions of bitcoin.

(if you are solo mining and hacked your version of bitcoin to accept 'non-standard' transactions then you could shoot yourself in your foot, but even that is unlikely).

okey, a have read the proposals again. i still don't like it, but it's acceptable.
but why the rush? February 15, 2012? are you crazy? try 2013.

i still don't like how OP_EQUAL i working as an opcode with two different meanings depending on the version of bitcoin.
how will this be implemented to avoid a endless loop? isn't there a risk of this?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
kokjo
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January 21, 2012, 08:06:55 AM
 #53

from what i can tell, OP is either seriously ignorant or a troll. Undecided
Kokjo has been trolling for a while if you weren't aware of it.

This or he's never thinking twice before spewing a post.
Both!

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
pusle
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January 21, 2012, 12:17:43 PM
 #54


Most agree this will come eventually and to some it's rather urgent since it must be deployed well in advance of actual use.

Arguing that more testing is needed and feb15 is too soon is fine and I actually agree with you on that count.

Why don't you use your time and skills to debug BIP16/17  instead of calling everybody else stupid
kokjo
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January 21, 2012, 12:38:49 PM
 #55

Why don't you use your time and skills to debug BIP16/17  instead of calling everybody else stupid
why should i debug something that im not a fan of?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 21, 2012, 12:44:14 PM
 #56

Why don't you use your time and skills to debug BIP16/17  instead of calling everybody else stupid
why should i debug something that im not a fan of?
to prove its broken
kokjo
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January 21, 2012, 12:46:04 PM
 #57

Why don't you use your time and skills to debug BIP16/17  instead of calling everybody else stupid
why should i debug something that im not a fan of?
to prove its broken
backward compatibility is by default broken, no need to debug.

(yes it is trolling)

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
Andrew Vorobyov
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January 21, 2012, 01:13:27 PM
 #58

this that you are doing are not helping bitcoin.

ROFL!

Mike Hearn
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January 22, 2012, 11:24:03 PM
 #59

Everyone please calm down. You are all in violent agreement.

There is really only one dispute here, and it's something over which reasonable people can disagree.

That dispute is, are short addresses required for successful deployment of 2-factor coins?

Everything else, everyone agrees on:

  • 2-factor/multisig coins are an important feature to have
  • Gavin and team are competent and know what they are doing
  • Changing the rules of the protocol is difficult, expensive and best avoided if possible.

I don't know anyone reasonable who would disagree with the above points.

Now maybe Kokjo believes 2-factor coins can be successfully deployed without short addresses. As it happens, I would agree with that, because I believe fees will work quite differently in future, so I don't care much about where exactly the bytes go or how many there are, and I see the cost of rule changes as being higher than the benefit. 2-factor coins will happen with or without P2SH because CHECKMULTISIG whitelisting is quite uncontroversial.

But Gavin, Luke and plenty of other people with a deep understanding of Bitcoin disagree. They see short addresses as being very important, and I can certainly understand that position.

Regardless of the outcome, the eventual impact of this decision will be quite trivial - something that a small cadre of Bitcoin protocol implementors need to think about, but it'll all be hidden from users. Its impact on the success or failure of the project is miniscule. So chill out Smiley
grue
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January 22, 2012, 11:33:16 PM
 #60

ok, what's with the quadruple posts?

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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