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Author Topic: WHY CHANGE(aka BIP hell)?  (Read 9651 times)
kokjo
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January 20, 2012, 06:26:16 PM
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seriously people(Garvin and Luke)!
why the hell keep changing things all the time? this is about to get very annoying!

fork the code please, and start your own coin! this that you are doing are not helping bitcoin.


DON'T FIX IT, IF IT'S NOT BROKEN.


"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 20, 2012, 06:30:13 PM
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What? There are many flaws in bitcoin and Gavin is doing a great job of addressing them. I personally hope BIP 17 or a standard solution is decided on, but I would never hope that bitcoin remains unchanged. Bitcoin can become so much better than it is now.
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January 20, 2012, 06:32:40 PM
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What? There are many flaws in bitcoin and Gavin is doing a great job of addressing them. I personally hope BIP 17 or a standard solution is decided on, but I would never hope that bitcoin remains unchanged. Bitcoin can become so much better than it is now.
agree, but they are right now introducing fancy features and bugs and flaws.

these people are crazy you know?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 20, 2012, 06:34:15 PM
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DON'T FIX IT, IF IT'S NOT BROKEN.
yeah, allowing your wallet to be stolen is not broken. having to remember/transfer super long addresses is not broken Roll Eyes

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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kokjo
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January 20, 2012, 06:36:56 PM
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DON'T FIX IT, IF IT'S NOT BROKEN.
yeah, allowing your wallet to be stolen is not broken. having to remember/transfer super long addresses is not broken Roll Eyes
i have been using bitcoin for some time, i have never got my wallet stolen.
you people are crying about some collective delusion you are having.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 20, 2012, 06:43:51 PM
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please read the actual proposal. it will tell you the reasons for implementing it.
i have been using bitcoin for some time, i have never got my wallet stolen.
you people are crying about some collective delusion you are having.
>this problem never occurred to me, therefore it doesn't exist at all

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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kokjo
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January 20, 2012, 06:52:50 PM
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please read the actual proposal. it will tell you the reasons for implementing it.
i have been using bitcoin for some time, i have never got my wallet stolen.
you people are crying about some collective delusion you are having.
>this problem never occurred to me, therefore it doesn't exist at all
can you please explain it to me, so even my small unintelligent mind can understand it?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 20, 2012, 06:55:55 PM
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please read the actual proposal. it will tell you the reasons for implementing it.
i have been using bitcoin for some time, i have never got my wallet stolen.
you people are crying about some collective delusion you are having.
>this problem never occurred to me, therefore it doesn't exist at all
can you please explain it to me, so even my small unintelligent mind can understand it?

I think it's pretty simple:

Many people *have* had their bitcoins stolen, and this is a problem that we need to address before we can expect widespread bitcoin adoption.

Multikey is a very important feature, that will allow better services to emerge, which will drive further bitcoin adoption.

Gavin is doing a great job, and you should show him some respect.
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January 20, 2012, 07:01:56 PM
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please read the actual proposal. it will tell you the reasons for implementing it.
i have been using bitcoin for some time, i have never got my wallet stolen.
you people are crying about some collective delusion you are having.
>this problem never occurred to me, therefore it doesn't exist at all
can you please explain it to me, so even my small unintelligent mind can understand it?

I think it's pretty simple:

Many people *have* had their bitcoins stolen, and this is a problem that we need to address before we can expect widespread bitcoin adoption.

Multikey is a very important feature, that will allow better services to emerge, which will drive further bitcoin adoption.
OP_CHECKMULTISIG, please explain the reason to change the protocol in a non compatible way
people should protect their bitcoin better, it is not a good reason for protocol change.

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Gavin is doing a great job, and you should show him some respect.
i do, when he is not acting like a child. P2SH is childish.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 20, 2012, 07:19:09 PM
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OP_CHECKMULTISIG, please explain the reason to change the protocol in a non compatible way
people should protect their bitcoin better, it is not a good reason for protocol change.

Tell me how we can do m-of-n signatures, or escrow without trusting a third party (or with a third party only in case of dispute).

Those "fancy features" are, in my humble opinion, the killer features that will guarantee bitcoin's success. It requires the consensus of the network, however.

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January 20, 2012, 07:26:57 PM
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Tell me how we can do m-of-n signatures, or escrow without trusting a third party (or with a third party only in case of dispute).

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0011.

kokjo
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January 20, 2012, 07:30:16 PM
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Tell me how we can do m-of-n signatures, or escrow without trusting a third party (or with a third party only in case of dispute).

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0011.
+1

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 20, 2012, 07:44:22 PM
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Those "fancy features" are, in my humble opinion, the killer features that will guarantee bitcoin's success. It requires the consensus of the network, however.
I couldn't agree more.  Bitcoin without these features is still pretty "killer"…but these features are really going to set it apart from everything else.

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
kokjo
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January 20, 2012, 07:45:19 PM
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Those "fancy features" are, in my humble opinion, the killer features that will guarantee bitcoin's success. It requires the consensus of the network, however.
I couldn't agree more.  Bitcoin without these features is still pretty "killer"…but these features are really going to set it apart from everything else.
HOW? OP_CHECKMULTISIG, already exists, what more do you need?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 20, 2012, 07:51:00 PM
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Ok, I misread PIP 11 the first time. Then why they're pushing PIP 16/17 so hard? While I think it will be needed, I don't think it's a priority. The first thing we need is GUI support for what we already have.

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kokjo
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January 20, 2012, 07:53:53 PM
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Those "fancy features" are, in my humble opinion, the killer features that will guarantee bitcoin's success. It requires the consensus of the network, however.
I couldn't agree more.  Bitcoin without these features is still pretty "killer"…but these features are really going to set it apart from everything else.
HOW? OP_CHECKMULTISIG, already exists, what more do you need?

There are already a couple threads discussing this. Have you read them?
sure but they are bullshit. the point in them is: sender don't have to pay, the receiver do. and mining pool, can put different fees on different transactions. this is not a reason to break stuff

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 20, 2012, 08:09:29 PM
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After much thought I came to realize what's the main purpose of PIP 16/17 while we already have PIP 11: The reason is secure wallets that are always multisig without superlong addresses. We'll also have space savings in the chain.

We need PIP 16/17 but what's urgent is PIP 11 in client GUIs.

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January 20, 2012, 08:13:51 PM
 #18

After much thought I came to realize what's the main purpose of PIP 16/17 while we already have PIP 11: The reason is secure wallets that are always multisig without superlong addresses. We'll also have space savings in the chain.

We need PIP 16/17 but what's urgent is PIP 11 in client GUIs.

No we don't. BIP 11 is dead on arrival.

The receiver gets all the benefit and the senders pays for it.  WTF?

You ask me to pay you with some super long address and I will say NOPE.
You try to cashout from Mt. Gox to some super long address and they will say NOPE.
You open an online store and try to get customers to pay to some super logn address and they will say NOPE.

BIP 16/17 is what makes BIP 11 USEFUL in the real world.    
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January 20, 2012, 08:20:21 PM
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BIP 16/17 is what makes BIP 11 USEFUL in the real world.    
ever heard of send to self?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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Gerald Davis


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January 20, 2012, 08:23:27 PM
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BIP 16/17 is what makes BIP 11 USEFUL in the real world.    
ever heard of send to self?

Which provides no security.  Any trojan or wallet stealer would simply intercept the funds sent to "insecure" addresses.  If the addresses are secure well you didn't need multi-sig anyways.

Plus multi-sig usefulness goes way beyond just secure wallets.  However w/ BIP 11 the entity "paying the cost" isn't the entity getting the benefit.  It is non-viable from an economics standpoint and likely to significantly increase rate of blockchain bloat if it is.
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